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Do, this is what politicians do. >> and just as important, it's what's being done to him, this guy vindman, shady. he's not really american. he only came here when he was 3. he's from ukraine, you know. and volker, he's a mccain guy, you know? sondland, him you can trust, he's one of ours, but these others, they're deep state. that's why the whistle-blower matters, andrew, because it's shady. and who is he and what are they and what's going on in the process is shady and everybody's out to get me. the president works this very well to great effect and everybody's got to be very aware of it. no...

Normalize the behavior. he put it out so quickly that there wasn't really a buildup of everybody looking for it and fighting about it and making it a big thing. he's got it out there and tried to normalize this behavior to convince ultimately the american people that this is okay, this is normal, this is what people do, this is what politicians do. >> and just as important, it's what's being done to him, this guy vindman, shady. he's not really american. he only came here when he was 3. he's from ukraine, you know. and volker, he's a mccain guy, you know? sondland, him you can trust, he's one ...

Joining us our cnn political correspondent, former federal prosecutor, former nixon white house counsel john dean and cnn political analyst carl bernstein. let me start with you, john. the fact that the now resigned ambassador special envoy to ukraine kurt volker is a mccain guy, was never a trump guy to begin with, now less than a week after he's resigned he is ready to testify this coming thursday. should the white house be concerned specifically because there are a lot of folks out there who are suggesting he may be what you once were, another john dean. >> well, wolf, one thing is for sure...

Reading the whistleblower report really is that he was -- he was giving zelensky advice about how to, quote, navigate the president after the phone call. the president had with zelensky. what kind of advice was he giving him on that? was he just trying to work out a way to secure the aid for ukraine and work around rudy giuliani? i mean, don't forget, volker is somebody who's a mccain guy. and he would have been personally very much in favor of aiding ukraine against the russians. and that's where he comes from politically. so we have to hear from him, and i think it's much more likely that as...

But over the summer they did acknowledge that he had connected rudy giuliani with officials who are close to zelensky. so i think it's important to take a step back here and look at who kurt volcker actually is. he is someone who still is employed at the mccain institute. he is an mccain guy. and as one person who is close with kurt volcker put it to me this week, that is not a winning character trait for trump. trump knew that he was someone who was an mccain guy. he was never a big fan of kurt volcker. but kurt volcker knew that president trump was interested in this investigation, in pushin...