will: senator tim scott on what this means inching closer to november 6789 pete: rookie wnba sensation caitlyn clark snubbed from the olympic team. the bizarre reason why straight ahead. third hour of fox & friends weekend starts right now. pete: rhode island. nice and great. that s great. i imagine in three hours, four hours that beach will be pretty packed. pete: i went to the beach yesterday for many hours yesterday. will: what d you do? pete: mostly sat there and enjoyed with friends. made sand castles and buried my kids. they buried me in the sand. typical stuff swim out to the bank. this was kids go play and then little interaction. very nice day. rachel: very nice. pete: not too much because i had to get up and do the morning show. jen and the kids were there. you successly execute it had. rachel: you got your breakfast. will: they re on a team and they they re on a team and. pete: i finished the order and went into her app. rachel: you did. will: thousands of anti-israel protesters are gathering outside of the white house and furious with the response of oturu ongoing hamas war. rachel: the demonstration as president biden wraps up trip overseas. pete: madeleine rivera joining us now with the details. reporter: hey, guys, the area outside of the white house cleaned up by the time president biden returns and the pro palestinian protesters return and they re going to have these for their demand to send them to israel and thousands travel to the country and the nation s capitol to showcase their furry and andrew jackson with paint and making red hand prints and red line in rafah and crossed by heading into the city and as the protest unfolded overseas in israel, there was joy and they reunited with their families and israeli forces rescued them in a daring operation and we won t stop working till all the hostages are home and a ceasefire is reached. that s essential for happening. reporter:red biden administration is recontinuing to work for the remains hostages through negotiation and antony blinken is heading back to the middle east tomorrow. pete: look who s here with us this morning. shannon bream. i teleported in. good to see you guys. there s so much blow back from progressives in the left and the rights saying it s not too late and we don t like what you re doing and it s cruel and unusual and you wouldn t do that and getting this split of support within his party and israel and hamas with things that are polling out this week and going for every state and we polled and double digit advantage with president trump and people thinking he would be better on that issue so the white house is scrambling. will: acknowledging who sits on the jury. does he need to testify? we ve all talked about, president trump s trial here in manhattan, it s a jury pool that s 85% voted for president biden is we think last time around and those are numbers he s working with and delaware, it s different. that s biden country and they have generations there and they re well known there and a report one juror was crying during the testimony and one jury you need one to hang and not get a conviction. i don t know if i m the defense, i d lean against putting hunter on the stand. there s so many avenues that can open and that why president trump and his team wanted to testify and i think they knew for them it would be difficult and once you put them on the stand, they can go a lot of different places you might not want to talk about. same thing with hunter. rachel: she went through a lot of effort to get there. whether i started reading her travel plans, i thought i m not reading in right. this cannot possibly be. she got it done and i got to think she wants him to feel the support. pete: timing wise on monday for the trial and do you think it wraps up by the end of the week and rachel: one more case, the elderly pro life activist and she s like 75 years old and this is a very violent place to live and where are they the priority for the doj and the city? it s tough for the doj because we remember there were attacks doj is pursuing those people and assigning jail time for people demonstrating and live stream it had and knew what they were doing and it was against the law and i would imagine most of the fo folks and one pled guilty they re willing to know what they walked into and doj not a great optic and equally aggressive going for other folks on the side. rachel: only p 4 and another one in the 60s that got solitary confinement for 22 days, which violates the nelson mandela act that says you can t keep it for more than 15 days and these are very severe unusual punishments and coming to us from new york. will: what can we expect on fox & friends ? rachel: short list and rising and he ll tell us about that and talk over foreign policy and big part of the resume. he s got hesitation and the drain on the resources is real and talk about that . the trump rally that i know you talked ahead of that and that was the district and how does he feel? rachel: here in the south bronx. pete: i have seen all the promos on fox nation and going for fox nation. it s like a dream come true. should have made him wear a mullet wig for the show. janice actively kill it had. pete: proper fox news sunday host and fire cracker break dancing during every commercial break. will: and i m comfortable saying this, they smoked us, pete and rachel. i mean, brian and shannon and dagen embarrassed us. it was a lot of fun. rachel: i can t stop looking at you. tamara who did my makeup. hair and make up was the best and there s a lot of purpose and will blue eye shadow doing this and we ve got to embrace it. our outfits. rachel: i want to do this. i told tom i want to do the 80s thing. pete: anyone else on television that has the range to go from 80s game show to fox news sunday? the range? rachel: there s no one on television who looks more like olivia newton john. the most massive compliment i can give you. let s get physical. rachel: i love you. you are awesome. incredible. pete: check it out on fox nation, the quiz show. looks like a lot of fun. thank you very much. rachel: thanks, shannon. pete: turning to a few additional headlines starting with this, a landslide taking out a massive chunk of road at t town pass in wyoming cutting off a critical lake between eastern idaho and jackson, wisconsin. officials don t know how long it ll take to repair the road and say the closest possible route going more than 60 miles out of the way. hope that i m able to represent you again very soon. it s held in honor of king charles iii s birthday. will: assuming that s soccer style? we didn t show it yet. pete: it s coming up. come on. come on. will: i saw something he slides on his knees soccer style. pete: was that the preview or broadcast? will: throwing me off. pete: on air or not on air? we re not working with pros here. will: most talked about basketball player period, not women s but on l planet. caitlyn clark left off the women s olympic basketball team. christineen writing in the usa today. two sources long time basketball veteran withs decades of experience in the women s game told me friday that is concerned how clark s millions of fans would react to what likely would be limited playing time on the factor of decision making and if true, that s an extraordinary mission of real attention with the old guard of women s basketball for this multimillion dollar sensation. pete: wanting fans and larger contracts and even talking about it for years and then suddenly a sensation, fan favorite shows up and you don t say it s front and center synergy home your vote lifting and all of our votes lifting and you ve got serious animosity or serious reasons for not wanting to elevate that person. rachel: we had dan on earlier from outkick and what he had to say. they had a great opportunity and i don t care about luka or jaylen brown or nb ark finals and there s no basketball player that s a bigger draw right now in the world. i would argue in the world then caitlyn clark. what a missed opportunity. they could have had more eyeballs on women s basketball, which would have equated to going back to your season and fixing up even stronger now it s the same old same old and no one is going to pay attention and that s a missed opportunity and a really dumb missed opportunity. will: it makes with raise reporter: risen above ambition. there s no reason. they re cutting their nose off despite their face. rachel: i just i m trying to understand it all and i think what women of color in sports wanted was more diversity and seems like she s a diverse member inside of this, you know, cohort of female basketball players. rachel: break it down for me. will: i think a lot of women are christian and she s an outlier from race to sexuality and style of play even. she s an out lier. but outlier but it s all garnered her a lot of attention. ratings follow, money followings ratings, and now you ve seen jealousy i think. i don t think it s limited to the superficial factors of race or sexuality. at some point it s jealousy. pete: yeah, it is unfortunate for all the levels you played out and it s not uncommon in sports and like a new player comes in to a league and isaiah thomas famously got this treatment from jordan and magic and others that said hey, new kid, you re a little above and we ll knock you down a peg and tough fouls she faced and there s that dynamic but this feels like more than that. and the question is how long does it persist and to miss such a big opportunity like this for the country saying, wow, i want to watch the women s team at the olympics. rachel: she s good enough to be on the olympic s team. pete: according to to people that follow the wnba the answer is yes, i just don t no. rachel: so much for the sister hood. i thought that s what it was supposed to be about but guess not. a shocking new report reveals the dire impact of biden s energy agenda on the u.s. economy. we re going to talk to you about what it means for your gas bill, next. why choose a sleep number smart bed? can it keep me warm when i m cold? wait, no, i m always hot. sleep number does that. now, save 40% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, free home delivery when you add an adjustable base. shop now at sleepnumber.com while i am a paid actor, and this is not a real company, there is no way to fake how upwork can help your business. upwork is half the cost of our old recruiter and they have top-tier talent and everything from pr to project management because this is how we work now. a slow network is no network for business. that s why more choose comcast business. and now, we re introducing ultimate speed for business our fastest plans yet. we re up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds. at no additional cost. it s ultimate speed for ultimate business. don t miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today! rachel: biden s energy agenda on the economy and going to unleash prosperity and suffering how is this these policies are actually a war on american families and i want to talk about national security. so let s start with families and what are the opportunity costs of not producing enough oil and how is it impacting us? this is a war on american oil and gas and what has that meant for the american consumer and reason that the price of these policies that are reducing the amount of oil and gas producing in the country and rachel: what we were producing before and so, all that is affecting you and take your food in to deliver the grocery stores and the farms and those expenses are at it and a national security component to this and people understand we are empowering iran and iran is not just causing trouble in the middle east and the oil discovered off the coast of guyana and why empower iran when we have liquid gold right under our feet? i wish hi a good answer to that question. when i give speeches around the country about what biden has done the way he s kind of recked our economy and people ask me is this intentional and trying to hurt america. the higher world oil prices and we re not producing it here at home and makes no sense. rachel: no, you could only be doing this if you re trying to hurt america or in the case of john kerry in charge of that iran policy and at one point he was a hobbyist for iran and you have to wonder what s the thinking here? and the people who suffer of course are the poorest, are the working class, and we re really glad you re doing these kinds of studies and it s important to put it out there and remind people of the way it was, the way it is, and how it can be if we change leadership and energy policies. if trump is reelected president, we ll be producing every sin l barrel we can and a great job here at home and hurting our enemies. what s wrong with that? rachel: yeah, what s wrong with that? steven moore, thanks so much for joining us. thank you, rachel. rachel: biden s border order taking effect this week but is it doing anything? pete and will go off the wall to break it down, next. lord, you know what s on our hearts. you know where we struggle. you know where we need to be pushed. help us give it all to you. the good, the bad. help us turn to you in everything. amen. you should join me in more prayer on hallow. stay prayed up. rise up this morning, smiled with the rising sun saying, this is my message to you-ou-ou singing, don t worry about a thing ( ) discover our newest resort, sandals st. vincent and the grenadines now open. visit sandals.com or call 1-800-sandals oh, why leaffilter? it s well designed, efficient, i appreciate that. leaffilter s technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good, guaranteed. what more could you ask for? call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com. i m moving past republican obstruction and using the executive authority available to me as president and doing what i can to address the border. migrants restricted from receiving asylum on the southern border unless they seek it from entering through a established lawful process. pete: joe biden s executive order on the border is now in effect and what does it actually mean? will: go off the wall and see if we can understand what it does, and if it will be effective. pete: good luck. will: here in effect is the policy that is put if place and shuts down the border after 2500 encounters. pete: kind of. seven days in a row above 2500 at which point a cap of 1500 encounters goes into effect and you re still allowing people in but only up to 1500 and it stays in effect until you have 14 straight days of less than 1500. will: 1.8 million illegal immigrants to enter the u.s. per year. pete: under the policy we could still get almost 2 million a year because it s riddled with loopholes. will: that s right. that 1500 number does not apply to the following types of people that may try to come in illegally, visa holders, unaccompanied children, victims of severe form of trafficking, those that use cbp1 app. pete: this is what they ve been touting the entire time, go to the app to be more orderly and that could be thousands and thousands a day through the cbp1 app through ports of industry. people running across not through ports of illegal entry. this new policy is going to address it but it s not going to. will: the executive order by owe biden going to receive criticism include tag of former president trump. they did undo all of your policies with the stroke of a pen. now finally yesterday, he implemented a new policy and however it s nearly 2 million illegals a year. millions o f people are allowed to come in and meanly a joke and everyone knows it and it s got nothing to do with border security pete: the accusation is it has to do with a date in november where he s seriously underwater on this issue and wants to make it look like something is being done. the other reason why, will, he didn t want the television cameras down this. he doesn t want the heat and we ve got a lot of reporterrers down there covering it, one of which is bill melugin. will: take a look at illegal immigrant encounters since it s gone into place and putting in place executive order on wednesday 5600 daily encounters and on thursday 4,000 daily. that s two days over the threshold. pete: correct. that means we would need five more days of numbers over 2500 at which the rolling average would then kick in the 14 days where there s a restriction on asylum seekers and under 1500 for 14 days, then it can go back to these numbers until it goes back underneath 2500 for seven more days. will: not changing the numbers from before the new executive order. this week on the will cain show, which is live at noon across the state fox news u tube and fox news facebook and hang out live and we re watching it on spotify or apple or youtube by subscribing and we ll have pete hegseth on wednesday for off the rails and leading contender for vice presidency doug burgum. pete: your boy. coming on the will cain show check it out every day monday through thursday at 12, noon, eastern time. former president trump earning green in the golden state with a string of sold out fundraisers. will: vp contender tim scott on what it means to inch closer to the convention. inching closer to the convention. he s next. everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it s a great product. it s going to help a lot of patients. i m gonna hold you forever. i ll be there. you don t. you don t have to worry. we love being outside, but the sun makes our deck and patio too hot to enjoy. thanks to our new sunsetter 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minority voters and he joins us now. snout torr, welcome. hi, rachel. how are you? rachel: there s been some really interesting positive news for the trump-appointed campaign. tell us where things are at and how you plan to help the president leading up to the convention. well, let me be clear, donald trump is going to be a juggernaut and it s the most remarkable fundraising in history of politics and question immediate to make sure we have donald trump for four more years and have him back on the world stage and one thing we have without question is working with joe biden on the world stage and best thing he can do is going for the vises yule stage ask stay off of it d visual stage and stay off and we need donald trump back on the stage and going from 2017 and we need a sharp president or the united states protecting the western allies and doing the right thing for the merri bowl people and that person is donald trump and it s time for us to fire joe bind. those resources will be very helpful. pete: senator, the left has thrown everything at him including what happened in a trial here in new york city, and they ve counted on it effectively being their campaign strategy and at every step it has backfired. why does it keep backfiring and why do they keep trying? they keep trying because they have nothing else to do but try to keep donald trump off the campaign trail and you know for sure the results of those efforts have backfired and his numbers go up in the polls and he becomes the biggest fundraising draw in american history and politically and it brings to focus the american people and protecting law and justice is job one from president trump and he will not target his political opponent and he ll fire merrick garland and restore confidence in the department of justice. they are out of answers for the american people so all they can do now is lie, cheat and steal. will: the vetting process including senator marco rubio of florida, senator jd vance of ohio, dug burgum, former governor of north dakota and tom cotton and elise stefanik and we sat down with the former president and asked him what are you looks arkansas looking for in a vice presidential candidate? my estimation he gave us three criteria: someone he gets along with. you seem to satisfy that. somebody that selfishly can help him win and historically isn t the case when it comes to vice president and that would be nice. and most importantly he said somebody that could be president. do you think he s satisfied that second and third requirement helped him win and could be president? well, there s no question that i think we have an amazing talented republican party and a great bench. without question having run businesses and having spent ten years in the senate in the house and understanding how this government works and what we need to make sure we do is have people who are ready to take this to the mat. president trump doesn t need any help. what he needs is amplifying his voice. when we do that, we re doing the right thing to make sure that american people have four more years of low unemployment, low enfellation, high enthusiasm and frankly enthusiasm and world peace and put shoulder to the grindstone and make sure the american people and the world experiences four more years of donald trump. listen, when donald trump was president, we didn t have war in ukraine, we did not have conflict in the middle east. we certainly did not have aggression from china, period. we had the strongest economy we ve ever seen in my lifetime. the person people deserve four more years and we have to restore confidence in our justice system. only one person does that. it s not a vp contender and not who the vp will be. it s what we do to make sure president trump gets four more years. rachel: senator, one of the things that the president also mentioned was somebody who aligned with him. obviously on many, many issues you do and you talked about world peace and that s an issue i really care about and i m really scared. i have young sons who are l of draftable age should we go in some sort of conflict. it s very personal to me and talked about the war in ukraine and that might not have happened and donald trump said that wouldn t have happened if he were president instead of joe biden is we are in a war with ukraine. should we take off the table and end that conflict. we need to make sure we have the end of conflict before nato takes on ukraine and the resources we ve seen has come to ukraine frankly because of donald trump. what donald trump said to speaker johnson was simply this, let s make it alone. don t give them the money. don t loan them the money and because of that, you saw the republican coalition rally around the wars of president donald trump and support mike johnson s efforts. what we ve seen in israel is in the middle east is something very clear. with president trump, we had the abraham accords and bringing together arab nations and support back into normalization and relationship with israel. without president trump actually seeing war in the middle east. and in china, president xi understood without question, you can t know what president trump is going to do so let s fall in line and do what we re supposed to do and there s no aggression density wan and look at results of president biden. afghanistan, 13 dead american soldiers. pete: absolutely. unnecessarily. look at the withdrawal, the botched withdrawal. i can go on and on about the contrast of the two and one thing for sure, rachel, under president trump, we saw a 9% increase of the wages of our military. the largest increase in the last 50 years. question saw respect for men and women willing to die for our country and under president biden we ve seen the exact opposite and finish the whole circle. president obama decided to gut the military with a $500 billion reduction in funds. president trump came to strengthen the military and president biden following the same footsteps of his predecessor obama wants again makes our military destabilized. pete: yeah. final point, not talking about mandates on the military. we can t have a conversation abother than fighting the cigar being successful rachel: thank you, senator. thanks, guys, god bless. rachel: you too. father s day is just one week away. the cyber guy has the latest tech savvy gifts to make you the favorite child. have you always had trouble losing weight and keeping it off? same. discover the power of wegovy®. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i m keeping the weight off. wegovy® helps you lose weight and keep it off. i m reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only fda-approved weight-management medicine that s proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events in adults with known heart disease and with either obesity or overweight. wegovy® shouldn t be used with semaglutide or glp-1 medicines. don t take wegovy® if you or your family had medullary thyroid cancer, 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we re talking about cashbackin. not a game! we re talking about cashbacking. we re talking about. we re not talking about practice? no. cashbacking. word. we re talking about cashbacking. cashbacking. cashbacking. cashback like a pro with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? american democracy after the hardest of things. it to believe that you are part of something bigger than yourself. we have never had a significant anniversary of d- day where democracy and western democracy felt as under threat and as fraught as it does this year. both in europe and at home. what do you make of donald trump s threats to jail his political opponents? i will talk you in about three years from now. you have to take donald trump at his word. i think there is nothing that will stop him from doing such things. the jury in hunter biden s trial was just dismissed for the weekend after emotional testimony from hunter s daughter. will wait to see whether hunter biden will testify in his own defense on monday. will you accept the jury outcome, their verdict, no matter what it is? yes. and have you ruled out a pardon for your son? yes. i just went to a riggs trial in new york. s first public campaign stops and says guilty convictions. if we don t win this country is finished. i really believe that, i think it is finished. i simply refuse to believe that america s greatness is a thing of the past. good evening once again, i am stephanie ruhle. we are now 151 days away from the election, and the contrast between the two presidential candidates could not be any clearer. this week president biden took action to close the border, and then traveled to france for the 80th anniversary of d-day where he stressed u.s. support for our allies. at donald trump, on the other hand, rallied against his guilty verdict, the judicial system, and then threatened to seek revenge with any possible person who has slighted him. let s bring in our nightcap and discuss all this. my friend, steve liesman is here. lizz winstead, cocreator of the daily show. she is also the cocreator. pablo torre, host of the public toray podcast. and to ray, host on thegrio. we look at this week you have president biden talking about freedom and the fight against tyranny, both 80 years ago and today, and then you have donald trump talking about how revenge is justified. liz, talk to us about where these two campaigns are and where they appear to be headed? tyranny of the past and tyranny of the present is basically what we are talking about. where are they heading? sometimes i honestly look at these two things and i think will the selection simply come down to will trump have more disillusioned people that won t show up or will biden have more dissolution people that won t show up? and that scares me. because i feel like for those of us doing the work, in the streets every day defending people s freedoms, if trump wins again, what we are facing is no dissent. and with no dissent we cannot challenge any of it. but, if he wins again there is no surprises about who donald trump is. in 2016 you can make the argument. people don t realize who he is. remember, he had all these people like no, no, you don t realize what you are in for. america knows exactly what they re in for. you say no. you know, there seems to be a lot of delusion. we hear a lot about the trump era was great, the trump administration was great. as if coven just did not happen. as if there was some reason why those last two years just don t count against his record. i don t remember covid but i definitely remember infrastructure week. infrastructure week was every week. i feel like trump is the most selfish person in the world, and everything revolves around me personally. every political issue comes back to me, myself. this woman asked him, this reporter asked him, katie from alabama wants to know what is your relationship with god? and he said i do very well with the evangelicals. that is not the question you were asked! and biden, to me, seems very outward. he is thinking about others. how can i help other people? think about the key moment of his life, losing a major chunk of his family in one horrific moment, as a relatively young man. who learned empathy, and to think about others and the importance of family. and this other person, who every bad characteristic we don t want our children to have, he has. i think what you said, you know, what is the question being asked and what are we trying to answer as instructed to what the biden campaign, i believe, should be trying to do? framing this even beyond needing to pay attention to the newsday today. more choice between extremism and not. i just wonder why we are not generally describing trump more as an extremist. forget about, again, let s not forget about the issues, people on the ground doing good work. when it comes to what are we expecting out of this, do you want someone who feels like they are attacking every institution, who is, again, do we need to recite the litany of felons and felonies? let s just talk about not being that. okay, but here is possibly why i think this is playing out. because, though they shouldn t be, president biden is focusing voters on democracy and on freedom. and these are fundamentally important things, but somehow they get viewed as kind of lofty ideals, and trump goes straight to the gut and grievance. because people don t know what it is like not to have it. i lived in russia for six years. they didn t understand democracy. they didn t know what it was like to not be, sort of the possibility of randomly being arrested and otherwise having appeal. but can i just go back to the beginning of the show? did all that stuff in this montage happened just this week? and there is 151 days, which means 21 weeks if my math is right. i m wondering if i have the stamina to make it through this, if this is just one week s worth of stuff. i really think this is going to be rather a dramatic, caustic, and i think biden is going to have to really bring home what is the absence of democracy, which is a very tough thing, whereas trump has only to say look, we can do all these things, everything can be great, and full of wall is not a sinitic and thing people think about. trump is a great salesman for his diseased ideas. biden has not yet shown himself to be a great salesman of his ideals, of what he has done. and there is a very significant and real and honest critique of biden from the left. that he has not done enough on what is going on in gaza. and there are a lot of people who would be democrats otherwise who will not support him because of that. i hear you. what s the conversation to have with that voter about what former president trump will do with the situation in gaza? was it not nikki haley a few weeks ago, when she went over there and said it is the job? you know, what lizz said about the margins is important. don t think about the potential, the imaginary hypothetical biden trump voter. i don t think that person really exist. there are a couple, but not many. there is a lot. know, the election is going to be about can trump get people who will say it is either trump or stay home? and can biden get people who say it is either biden or i stay home? the election is going to be won on those margins. and biden does have this significant issue, that a lot of people. there is agoing around on it tiktok . i don t know if using it. tiktok, home of misinformation central. we can talk about tiktok later. but they asked with man, gun to your head, would you vote for biden or trump? and he said the gun would go off . it is a meme that has been shared by people who are saying i will not go with any of them. this is my point about extremism or not. biden should also be as popular as the field broadly. do you want trump or anybody else? we are at a point where trump is not just specifically dystopian in the ways that we may remember or not, based on our experience during the pandemic. he is also just clearly against the will of all is the concept. so i think the question of democracy is how do you make this a tangible, scarier thing? because currently i think talking about democracy as a concept is a little pie-in-the- sky. the thing about democracy dying in darkness did not really work as a slogan for the washington post. it this week, with the remembrance of d-day, it was not just the stark contrast between president biden and donald trump. it was also between donald trump and ronald reagan. ronald reagan gave one of the most important speeches of his presidency in normandy. he stood against russian aggression, he stood with his nato allies. so isn t there question to ask of all republican voters, where has your party gone? because the current gop and what donald trump represents bears almost no resemblance to ronald reagan. correct. it is why you saw joe biden looking almost like reagan and referencing him while he was in france this week. i mean, i am just not going to go down that path, because i am somebody who doesn t have friends who are alive because of ronald reagan. so when i think about waxing back to the people who laid the foundations for this evolution, trump did not come to us in a vacuum. trump came to us because people laid foundations for hatred and bigotry and sexism. and i feel like i don t want to go back to the party that i could recognize of ronald reagan. but what i do want to say is people that we are leaving out of this conversation are the voters. i am constantly saying to people the election is not the end game. it is the starting game. you get the democracy you want and you get the democracy you participate in. and who do you want to fight? that is my whole thing. who do you want to fight? do you want to fight a madman? or do you want to fight somebody who might listen to you where you can get the needle move? because these other people. i do not think the election is going to be won by biden if he is taking democracy his issue. i think it has to be the economy. all of our polling shows people are most concerned about inflation, most concerned about jobs, most concerned about the economy. democracy should be like the sprinkles you get with the ice cream cone, if the ice cancun is the economy. but without a functioning democracy you can throw your economy out the window. that the economy is always the number one issue. finish your thought. i was just going to say that if he does not win it on the record that he is running on which is a strong one. which is a pretty strong one , and a vision of the future, i don t think he wins it by saying i am the democracy guy and that guy isn t. we are talking two different languages as far as the folks who may vote for biden and the folks who may vote for trump. i mean, this is not about issues at all. this is about personality. this is about who you believe. and the people on the right, like joy reed talks about earth one and earth two. the people on the right live on earth two. and we can sit here and believe the nothing that you believe is factual. we can go on and on. january 6, climate change, the election, the trial. but they are affirmed in their miss belief constantly, and they think we don t know what is reality. this is why i feel like the whole felonies thing should and hopefully does cut through to a silent majority, not to evoke reaganism s, but a silent majority of people who are like i am in earth one resident that i am just not that proud of it. it is, for me, a bridge too far, when we have a convicted felon surrounded by felons being again in the white house. i feel like i just want to simplify it down to do you want the felony guy or anyone else? that is a great question. donald trump wanted more than his face, wouldn t he be doing everything possible to court the nikki haley voter? he disrespected nikki haley in every possible way and still she endorsed him. if she actually wanted to win, it wouldn t he say she is my running mate, let s go for the gold? he hasn t, instead it is president biden who is putting together a coalition to try to go to for those voters and risking losing progressive voters in the mix. i wonder when we say nikki haley voter, i would wonder if they were not so psyched about nikki haley, or if they were just like i don t want trump. i am not like everything about nikki haley is just awesome. people weren t saying that. i feel like him going for that voter after he saw emma we saw the numbers after iowa. was it 28% of those people who said if nikki haley is not the nominee i could possibly vote for biden? i think when trump doesn t go out and try to expand his base he never has. but let me finish. why is even doing that? that should be the sign to everybody, he is not trying to expand past due. he is not looking at a world for you. can i do some reporting here with lizz ? i might be messing up the order of your show here. but when roe was first overturned we saw abortion rise up to the top of issues. since then we have seen it fall down. and i know the democrats are making a big deal of the abortion issue. do you think it is something that motivates voters? i don t think it is going to be democracy, and i am wondering if it is going to be abortion as something that trumps the economy, for lack of a better term, and becomes a real motivating issue. well, i am the right person to ask. no, no, only because you might not know this, i am on the ground all the time talking to people. and this is where democrats are actually making a mistake. i do think abortion, abortion polls better than politicians. in these ballot initiatives we are seeing in over a dozen states were initiated by the people, not by politicians. by the people. people who held their abortion stories to themselves for years, saw this as a time, and this isn t a couple people. you have to get 200, 500 in florida, 900,000 validated signatures to get it on the ballot. the question is will people vote for biden and the initiative, what we saw in kansas, the very first one, that people voted overwhelmingly for their abortion initiative and still voted for some of the people who created the laws in the first place. what? so, what we should carefully be looking at is these initiatives, i think, are going to greatly help down ballot. they are going to help senate races and places that will be surprising. congressional races. and will people say i am going to vote for everybody but biden? that is the question somebody needs to answer. we can do that in the next poll. we can ask about that. please do. the president took pretty aggressive action on immigration this week. it has been a vulnerability for him. republicans are going to say it is too little too late. how do you think it is going to play out? and just to be clear, republicans have done nothing on immigration, and thanks to donald trump, blotch doing anything legislative. this is how the republican party has shifted the overton window in their direction. we talked about the border, and about immigration. immigration is not a central issue in american life. it is not the source of crime, it is not changing the economy. republicans have made it this central issue. and people believe it. whether it actually is an issue in daily life are not is somewhat irrelevant, because republicans have been successful in convincing the american people. that s what i m saying, they have made us think about it when it is not as important as they wanted to be. i think this is the frustration for anybody who is not trump, joe biden specifically. your running election campaign, and administration based on it, i think, a practical execution of hopefully reasonable and increasingly moderated policies, and donald trump is running on vibes. it is a vibes based campaign. and the question, fundamentally, returns to turnout. vibes is too polite award for a period anger, resentment, ancient nightmares awake into the bloodstream of people who feel like they re being threatened by non-threats. i m sorry, i have a different view on this. i want to see the person advising biden on the politics of immigration fired. i think he has been behind the curve on this. he has let the republicans take this to a place where it shouldn t go. from a narrative perspective, but not a policy perspective. what have they done on the policy front? from a narrative perspective, if he is doing what he is doing now, why couldn t he have done that months ago? okay, fine. but hold on. you can argue with when he did it, but now he is doing it. now he is doing it. what have republicans done? nothing. they have objected to a deal that was apparently done that was agreed to, but the second thing i wanted say they want to continue to set this up as a problem. the second thing i want to say is there are some issues where you want to take on the lack of facts and the misdirection had on. this issue of immigration, i think, should be one that should be approached with much more sympathy for the people who are afraid and scared, and i think rather than head on white, which people? the immigrants? the people in montana who are worried about people crossing the border in xcode. you don t make it to montana. never make it to montana. so we should worry about what people in montana and west virginia should think about it? we already do. this is what is motivating them. and i think there is a way to address this in a way that is more understanding and less in- your-face. more understanding of what white people in montana think? exactly. here s why, because they vote. i don t think steve is saying because they are white. hold on a second. i don t think it steve is saying that person in montana is right. i think what he is saying is they vote. at the very least you have to acknowledge who that person is, where they are, and speak to them. the issue has already coddled them immensely by wrapping them in this notion of the demonization, i mean, so many americans would think of immigration and think of somebody getting murdered by an immigrant. but that is not the core of our relationship with immigrants in this country. and the right has made it that. yes, but the most important word that you said right there is made. because they made it that. because they solidified this falsehood, you have to at least address it and try to start solving for them. and you understand how people are scared? but who is scared? white people? white people. but we are continuing to be asks to be sensitive to the fears of white people? that are not real fears. it does not matter if they are real fears. they vote. i guess it is my question. genuine human empathy is being considered anybody s peers. i think we are trying to do empathy but also cold calculus about getting their votes. we are trying to disabuse them of the lies and ways that damages them in terms of their sense of security and sense of self. but before we get back in, i just want to ask what does it take to coddle the abstract montana and that is afraid that someone in mexico is coming over to take their job? there is a community i know in wyoming. they had no people from south america. all of a sudden they had 12 people. this was a huge change for them, and everybody, all of a sudden they had to teach esl. great, and guess what? that town in montana or wyoming had jobs for those people. they absolutely did, and those people added to the jobs and there were not people to do the jobs they were doing. all that is good stuff. i am just saying the change, the challenge makes people uncomfortable. i am wondering before we take them head-on if there is a way to talk to them. in an understanding way. last point. this is bigger than the immigration. because this is the republican pattern. create a fear that is not real, pass legislation that only harms other people, then the fear stopped because it never existed. and they think they won. they have done it with abortion, they have done it with lgbtq, trans people. there s kids who are pooping and cat boxes in schools! no, there isn t. if they were kids pooping in cat boxes in schools, high school kids would have put it on instagram. so, to me, it is a microcosm of the playbook and how do we dismantle that playbook to stop having that fear, and stopping the bs around it? we have to go to commercial, but i don t actually think you and steve disagree. i don t. no, i am not prioritizing the feelings of white so we do disagree. but i think that all steve is trying to say here is these people and their fears, he is not saying let s appeal to them. but if we simply ignore it then we are sending this people into trump s arms. we can practically see the statue of liberty when we walk outside this building. we are supposed to be a nation that welcomes immigrants. i mean, none of us were born here, right? but now we have this very hateful, xenophobic approach to a certain kind of immigrant. it is disgusting, and the notion that we should kowtow to the fears that have been grading these people. i am not saying you are kowtowing to anything, but if you don t at least speak to that person you are sending them into the arms of donald trump and going wild are that these people voting for donald trump? because they are getting it to work. and i am not saying they should be coddled. i am saying shouldn t we at least acknowledge them and get a basis of truth back to the center? this is part of what we are talking about when the new york times does what is going on in the world? we ask trump voters. they don t care, we don t care what they think. we don t have to be constantly checking in with what they think. i also think it is the responsibility of white people to educate white people. it should not be placed on lichen brown people and immigrants. i would like to know what it would take to achieve the persuasion that immigrants are not so scary. i would like a practical proposal before i decide to sort of center the feelings of people who are fed lies. what if you didn t reject the fears? and by the way, i am wanting to correct the record. i m not talking about coddling the fears of white people. i feel like there 20 a black and brown people concerned about immigrants coming over the border, taking their jobs. no one is taking anyone s jobs, we have a labor shortage. you have been there could be a rainbow coalition of people who believe that there isn t. i think we acknowledge the people have a right to have fear and be concerned, and not dismiss those fears. besides the four of you, someone else is screaming at me and it is the producers. we have to go to a commercial. there s five people yelling. when we return, the last four years have been great for the wealthiest americans. so i want to know why so many of the richest of the rich are opening their wallets, their hearts, their minds, and buying into his propaganda and pushing donald trump. i need some answers to this. and later, phenom caitlin clark gets hip checked and starts a bigger conversation about women s basketball when our nightcap and the 11th hour continues. s. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: marnina learned that most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don t stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don t take dovato if you re allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. this can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. if you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. serious or life-threatening lactic acid buildup and liver problems can occur. tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver problems, or if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. dovato may harm an unborn baby. most common side effects are headache, nausea, diarrhea, trouble sleeping, tiredness, and anxiety. detect this: you could stay undetectable with fewer medicines. ask your doctor about dovato. craig here pays too much for verizon wireless. so he sublet half his real estate office. you could stay undetectable with fewer medicines. [ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg s moving company uses t-mobile. so she scaled down her fleet to save money. and don s paying so much for at&t, he s been waiting to update his equipment! there s a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don t have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. in the week since donald trump was found guilty of 34 counts in a new york courtroom, some of the wealthiest americans have come out to announce their support for him. steve, i really, really want to talk about this. because just in the last week donald trump has this new crop of not even your average wall street is disguised. i mean the top of the top most successful. coming out, throwing parties for him, supporting him, and even making arguments that are not true. in the last 24 hours i have heard some of these guys say well, when joe biden asked that last covid relief, which, you know, killed us in terms of inflation. unemployment had already completely recovered. that is a lie. and an uninformed voter might not realize that. but i am talking about the most informed voters, the most successful guys in business are pushing trump lies on their, in a field that is their own expertise. why is this? the corporate tax cuts are going to be on the table in 2025. if you end up supporting trump you are most likely to keep those corporate tax cuts and lower tax brackets, because, by the way, i don t think trump is going to address the deficit at all, either. the record shows that perhaps some of the fiscal spending had a part in the inflation, but it was more about supply shocks, the inability to get stuff into the country, the reduction in the ability to spend on services, so all this money to buy patio furniture and stuff like that, all of the sudden that shot up and all of a sudden we had problems with some food distribution. and that has come off in a very big way. there has been extraordinary progress on the inflation rate but has not brought down the inflation level. and don t overstated, biden has plenty of very, very wealthy supporters. but you are right to point out how extraordinary it is that some of these folks, especially in tech land, are the ones who are out there saying i am going to vote for trump or support trump. and to read, for example, david sachs tweet today on the economy is just to be amazed that a guy with that much money . here s the thing. i get that inflation is difficult. these people who are now supporting donald trump have had extraordinary, extraordinary last few years. bill ackman this week, what is it announced? he is worth $8 million. think of everything president biden has done for electric vehicles. a huge win for elon musk. yet they are railing against this disastrous economy, when it has been a perfect one for them. i think, first off, taxes, let s start with that. and then get to realizing that for these guys, in silicon valley especially, shame feels like a market inefficiency. wait, hold on, if i don t have to care about the judgments of people who are paying attention to the news, maybe i can do the thing that donald trump offers uniquely, in my memory, of american presidents. which is the ability to dictate actual policy. the ability to get favors. i feel like this is the other part of the trump administration that goes underrated because we are talking about the bed of nails that is every single scandal. he is for sale. look at the adelson family. go down the risk of donors and what you get. if you are tech billionaire, ceo, philosopher, king. that is what these guys want to be. they know better. they may think trump is an idiot, and i think they do, but they also think they can puppeteer hemenway s, and they can help run the country. and that is something that joe biden does not offer them. the white house is for sale. and in some way, is this like re-creating putin s oligarchs, but here? you know, i have been listening to you, and i can t believe we are here, again. and a real chance that he might win. and something i ve read the criminologist talk about, the reason why jail does not work as a deterrent. because a lot of people do a stint in prison and they come out and they go oh, i can do that. now i m going to go back to the street, because that wasn t that bad. and for a lot of people they are like we survived trump. it wasn t that bad. covid does not count on his record, for some reason. and they are like we could do this again. and it doesn t make any sense. and i get a footnote to the oligarch story? a lot of those guys ended up exiled and dead. i don t know that all the people who are supporting trump understand the final end result of kleptocracy. okay, because you are asking for people to have something beyond short-term. it works for a little bit. but, see, we are talking about hugely successful masters of the universe who believe well, that will never happen to me. you know that is the way they all think. i think that is right. they re not thinking it through. i think they are also missing, getting back to the first conversation we had, the essential connection between democracy and free markets. what makes free markets work is the rule of law, and if the rule of law is something that is on the whim of the president you have a real problem with your free markets. lizz, let s talk about sort of these loud, influential voices were suddenly backing former president trump. why they would be doing it. i understand, inflation is a really difficult. you want to buy a house, rent an apartment, get any insurance, things are really difficult. but suddenly this group of people backing the former president, it does not really make sense from a policy perspective. why do you think it is happening? well, when you look at how many of them are feel adjacent, this is not my will house. but i d do see and have met and have been hit on by very, very, very rich and powerful men. and all those zeroes don t add inches, and somehow i think they do. and if that stays in the show i am proud of you. i promise you it will. because honestly, i don t have an answer. we are on life. is a family show until now. but honestly, what is the thing you are missing? what is the emotional thing you are missing? you are talking about the intellect of these individuals, and so much of it is about the performance of this analogy that trump offers, the ego. and if you have a massive ego, one of these masters of the universe, wall street, silicon valley, i completely understand why you rock with trump. because that ego seems to be like that is my guy, that s the guy want to be with. i am also just not convinced that they actually like him. that s correct, they don t. they think he is a puppet. i think that they are unbothered by the performance that trump does, which is a key, visceral distinction that i have with these people. but also, i think, what they want is power. trump offers them power. these guys right now believe they can purchase a bat phone into the oval office if donald trump wins. and it was funny, somebody on tv said to me the other day, yeah, but what if donald trump turns on them? what if he doesn t deliver than that? he might, though. and joe biden definitively will not. so they will roll the dice. i think we make a mistake in this country, that because you made a lot of money here you must be smart about things over here. we do it all the time on cnbc, and it is something that i disagree with. but like we will have a billionaire and asked him what he thinks about healthcare. and unless he made his billions in healthcare i am not really sure i care. it s a great point. it s interesting, but it is not essential. it is interesting as we talk , that the pronoun hymn has been used to bunch. because we ve been talking a bunch about men. and even when you said because they make money here they don t do it over there, when you think of somebody who is a billionaire, like the woman who invented spanks. sarah blakely. people are not going to sarah blakely, what do you think about what is going on over there? i don t anybody is asking these guys. these guys have realized they can become business celebrities. do you think somebody a year and half ago said what does bill ackman think about anything other than investing? no one asked him. but now he is posting tweets. it became a twitter personality. so the adrenaline addiction is real. they are all addicted to dealmaking, and now they have become business celebrities. this is a part of capitalism. the people who succeeded the most and capitalism must be the most intelligent people in the country. trump succeeded in capitalism. soon enough, he did not. he did! he took a big chunk of money from his dad. lost a bigger chunk. right, we think of him, he is so dumb. he is proof that you can be wealthy and done at the same time. is also not a successful business person. everyone is staying right here. when we return, fans love her. but caitlin clark is getting a mixed reception from the players in her first year of going pro. why one foul has people talking when the 11th hour in the nightcap continues. introducing new advil targeted relief. the only topical pain reliever with 4 powerful pain-fighting ingredients that start working on contact to target tough pain at the source. for up to 8 hours of powerful relief. new advil targeted relief. - so this is pickleball? 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(vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon it s time to get away and cash in at cache creek casino resort. to rock and to roll. to go all out or go all in with four stars and rising stars. northern california s premier casino resort is the perfect place to do as much. or as little as you want. make your getaway now and cache in at cache creek casino resort. basketball star caitlin clark continues to crowd the spotlight as her wnba career kicks off. but it is a foul against her from nearly a week ago that is still in the headlines. pablo, she got body checked by another player. so why are people still talking about it? walk us through what happened in the line of all these new threads. on some level it is a simple story. it was a hard foul, should have been called a flagrant. wasn t, had to be assessed as such retroactively. but the reason it has continued is because it fits into this larger story, which is less and less about caitlin clark, and is a through line for today s show, perhaps, and more and more about us, the voters, so to speak. because it is a perfect culture war story. uninformed voters versus informed voters. and it is about vibes. so i want to address the feelings, because these are sincerely held. it is more than just the great white hope. it is more than just a minority group in this sport actually being a majority outside of it. wnba famously is 60% black women. so you have this star who is bringing attention, record ratings, real business for the first time in the history of the sport. and simultaneous to that you have a lot of people who pre- existed in this sport, who built this sport, who are saying we have not felt the advantages of being the majority group in a business that now everybody cares about. and so, a lot of people have a point, is my point here. caitlin clark is a great player. she deserves the conversation and the height and the attention and the money. and at the same time, those are advantages that are not granted to others because there is a novelty, as well as the substance to it. it is an endless culture war story which everyone can get mad at everyone for a very long time. i think i feel also the resentment of the women who are already there, who are like oh, you think this college kid is going to come in and dominate us? and at the time it seemed you guys are being rude and resentful. and no, actually, it is very hard to move from college to the pros in any sport, even if you are, maybe, one of the best, the best college players ever. we are going to do this entirely differently. we are stronger, faster, more experienced. it is going to be hard for you. so slow down, don t think you re going to walk in and take over. i have nothing to say. remember how i said that i didn t think rich people should be talking about healthcare? i am pretty sure the economics reporter should not be talking about sports. but how is there so much confusion here? suddenly the wnba has all these new fans, and they are watching a game. a game, a rough game that is played year after year. but suddenly the first game they have ever seen, the player who they love, they are seeing get pushed around and they are going, i mean, there was a republican lawmaker who was complaining about this. where you are going this is just how the game is played. yeah, would they feel that way if it was angel reese who got knocked to the ground like that? no. she did get knocked to the ground like that, and nobody cared. this is the other part of the story. sports are supposed to be fueled by hatred. by bad blood. by feuding. this is stuff that is great. part of the reason why i want to buy stock, business metaphor, buy stock in the nba is because people are actually invested in it emotionally, and that comes from having bad blood. the thing that is dystopian, lizz, which movie you can appreciate on this level, too. i love dystopian. yes, we are talking not so much about the story, and more about how everybody hates everybody else because they see themselves in it. and for me it becomes a culture war story, and when i say it is an endless forever war of a culture war story i mean it is because, in sports, we are still arguing about whether lebron james or michael jordan is better. we have been doing that for decades upon decades. some precincts have been reporting that it is jordan. but the point is this is not a thing that can be solved this positively by play. it is going to be, again, about how you feel. and being a minority group in a majority female, black sport that outside of that sport affords you advantages that track with the money and the attention and the privilege, it is like it is fair to object to all of this and it is fair to also say you are making too much of it, because isn t she just a basketball player? and this i will also say. i think it is also fair to say that caitlin clark knows the game that caitlin clark is in. caitlin clark is not saying anything. it is like taylor swift, when the whole taylor swift beyonce feud was happening, they were both like there ain t no feud. this happens in this sport. i just feel like caitlin clark is not screaming. there is a whole lot of pundits speaking, there is a whole lot of things. and what you said is real. the pundit point is important. because race is always a part of sports, we don t always talk about it, but it is always there. and not just what happens on the floor, but also because the vast majority of people who cover sports are white, and male , and generally they are covering, especially in basketball, covering a lot of black people. so, in this situation you see the white girl who is supposed to be the new star, who is changing everything, and she gets thrown to the ground by somebody. the white pundits especially are like oh my god, how could you do that to her? but it is not just about race. it is a lot about the fact that these sports analysts are men. as i have seen black sports analysts this week go on and on, shocked by this saying these girls out there are being mean girls to each other. in the same sports analysts watch football year after year, they watch rookies get the crap kicked out of them going that is on the game is played. but when it comes to women doing it they are like look at these mean girls up in here. and that is bull nonsense. and i agree with you. overwhelmingly it is not that the rest of the wnba is jealous and deceiving like this is a high school cafeteria over caitlin clark. but there are a couple of people who feel that way. if you were to tell me watch this clip of angel reese celebrating caitlin clark falling to the ground i can t convince you objectively that she is not taking some enjoyment. now, does that rise to the level of jealousy and mean girl stuff? i am not going to categorize it as such. but i believe in that he and bad blood can coexist. it is just a we over characterize it as this is a sport where this should not happen, all sports are fueled by this. this is my observation. i want to know if this is true. is less contact countenanced in the wnba than the nba? is even more physical. we have to take a commercial. it s more physical? yes. does ladies know how to get it done. what i want to know is all this talk about the wnba, is it helping the game? we don t know yet. everybody is staying put. when we come back are nightcap returns with our mvps of the week. you do not want to miss it when the nightcap continues. e night kisqali is a pill that when taken with an aromatase inhibitor helps delay cancer from growing and has been proven to help people live significantly longer across three separate clinical trials. so, i have the confidence to live my life. kisqali can cause lung problems or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to death. it can cause serious skin reactions, liver problems, and low white blood cell counts that may result in severe infections. avoid grapefruit during treatment. tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms, including breathing problems, cough, chest pain, a change in your heartbeat, dizziness, yellowing of the skin or eyes, dark urine, tiredness, loss of appetite, abdomen pain, bleeding, bruising, fever, chills, or other symptoms of an infection, a severe or worsening rash, are or plan to become pregnant, or breastfeeding. long live life and long live you. ask your doctor about kisqali today. welcome to the wayborhood. and long live you. with wayfair, finding your style is fun. 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[ music stops ] i m sorry, carl. this is me in chair form. i don t see you. -oh, come on. this one s perfect for you. but you. love it. i told you we should have done a piñata. i explained it so many times. um-hum. they re not sitting. -and it rocks. you need to sit down. wayfair. every style. every home. i don t know how long it s been there. long enough to produce eggs, it seems. it would appear that it has begun moving towards us! visionworks. see the difference. are nightcap is still here with the mvps of the week. who had the biggest we can your mind? one of my heroes, peppermint patty murray from washington state who took on an antiabortion physician who spoke in front of the senate and actually lied about that iuds were actually an abortion, and patty murray called her out on it. it is a public service to everybody. an iud prevents implantation of a fertilized egg. you cannot have a pregnancy unless the fertilized egg is implanted in the uterus. that is a fact. and this doctor, who is somebody s doctor, lied in front of the senate. and patty murray was like smacked down today. go, patty. another yelling at me because we are going to run out of time, but we should just think about this for a second. that person who sat there and told that lie with a political agenda is somebody s doctor. who is your mvp? i wanted to go in a different direction. corey harris, who became viral out of driving to his resume hearing about driving with a suspended license. hold on, walk us through. because people are not going to know this name but everyone saw this video. he drove to his resume hearing with the judge on his suspended license hearing. and everybody is like oh my god, what an idiot. and surely he made some bad decisions. and it came out that he has actually never had a driver s license. but the end result of all of this is that he ended up in jail for a nonviolent offense. he was not even intending to hurt anyone, and it is easy to look at an individual and say you should have behaved differently. more important to look at the systems and the institutions and say you should behave differently. why are we using jail as a corrective for something like this? a nonviolent offense like this? we are over incarcerating nonviolent offenders way too much in this country. and this is a prime example of somebody who should not be in jail. there are many, many other ways to make the situation work. cindy eldon is the clerk for esmeralda county in nevada. and she is undergoing a withering criticism at a recall petition. she is a republican from supporter, and there are people in that county the believe that there was problems with the election because trump only one of the county of about 700 people by 82%. and this wonderful story in the new york times about this clerk who is being criticized by her neighbors and all the people she has known for life is a reminder that democracy is not a mountain. it is not a building. it exists because of local officials, and the reason why the 2020 election was not overturned is because of these actions by these local officials . these people, i think, democrats, republicans, non- partisans all our heroes that make democracy still exist in this country, and don t take it for granted. and i am on a bipartisan crusade of my own. good luck with that. red panda is somebody that you may know if you have seen a basketball game. she happens to be the greatest halftime performer of all time. red panda is the older chinese woman and immigrant to this country who gets on a unicycle, elevated many feet in the air, balances holes on her foot, and kicks them off to her head repeatedly. and the crusade i launch after watching her perform in game one of the nba finals yesterday is simply this. at the basketball hall of fame has never inducted a halftime performer. it should be red panda, and i want to address america, the world, on my various social media platforms i have a change.org petition. this is a real thing. all of you guys at this table need to sign it. i am begging you. we need to demonstrate that this person, read anda, is a part of history and should be remembered to me as such. right on. we are ready to sign it. my mvp, the families from the sandy hook elementary school in newtown, connecticut. if you remember, talkshow host alex jones spread lie after lie of what happened in that elementary school in connecticut. the families of those children, those five and six-year-old children who were killed sued this man for defamation and they won nearly $1.5 billion in damages. but all sorts of cynics out there, me included, thought they are never going to see the money. a guy like this is going to move his assets, put them under family members names or friends, it will never happen. on thursday, yesterday, alex jones filed for chapter 7 bankruptcy, basically liquidating all of his assets. why? for the families who face the most devastating loss and then had to hear the lies that he pushed. this was all made up, and these families have said the money is not the most important thing. the most important thing is that he stops doing this. that might not ever happen, but we are one step closer to these families having one ounce of justice, and i welcome it. thank you all for being here. it was a pleasure to have you all. have a great weekend. thank you, thank you, thank you. we are going to be right back. the virus that causes shingles is sleeping. in 99% of people over 50. it s lying dormant, waiting. and could reactivate. shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. and it could wake at any time. think you re not at risk for shingles? it s time to wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you re over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. hi. my name is kim and i am 41 years old. i ve been given the opportunity to work from home, so that means lots of video calls. i see myself more and i definitely see those deeper lines. i m still kim and i got botox® cosmetic. i wanted to keep the expressions that i would normally have, you know, you re on camera and the only person they can look at is you. i was really happy with the results. i look like me just with fewer lines. botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crow s feet, and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. see for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com. sup? -who are you? as these may increase the risk i m your inner child. get in. listen. what you really need in life is some freakin torque. [ engine revving ] oh yeah man, horsepower keeps you going, but torque gets you going. [ engine revving ] oh now we re torquin ! - i love car puns! oh, i know. pppp-powershot! [ engine revving ] [ laughing ] the dodge hornet r/t. the totally torqued-out crossover. norman, bad news. i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is. xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? [crowd cheering] it may not seem like it, but this, is actually progress in play. a shell energy 100% renewable electricity plan lighting every soccer match at shell energy stadium. we re moving forward with the houston dash. because we re moving forward with everybody. shell. powering progress.
that s it for me. thanks for watching. tune in tomorrow where i am speaking with congressman jerry connelly. plus, senior adviser and spoke s person for president biden s campaign, adrienne elrod joins us to talk importance of border security to voters ahead of november s election tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. follow us on social media using the handle, at weekend capehart. listened every episode of our show as a podcast for free. scan the qr code on your screen to follow. but, keep it right here. a frightening film about a serial killer. robert barnsley: .he d say, when you re turning the blade, grit your teeth and really really show that you re enjoying it. we had talked about how would you kill somebody and get away with it. i had dark thoughts and shared them with the serial killer. it was supposed to be a movie, a frightening film about a serial killer. you grit your teeth and really show that you on bare enjoying it. but, was it really just pretend? eels get down on the ground and took out duct tape. i have never in my life felt fear like that. a rising young film director filming a murder, or actually committing one? he told me well, you liked dexter. when you take a step back you realize this is a real man who has been murdered. the script was darker than anyone knew. like holy mackerel. who are you, really? everyone was on the edge of their seat. and underground parking garage, you are watching a violent attack caught on tape. who was this? what is happening? or, did it happen at all? movies, like that one, are by design, deceptive. make-believe worlds, but have you noticed maybe it is all the technical doodads and digital cameras. some stories that claim to be true or not. anybody can manipulate reality, sometimes what they say is true is it. sometimes, fiction turns out to be fact, and then there are stories, just a few, and which fact and fiction fuse and that is where we are going tonight, a twilight zone world of illusion and deception and deceit. follow the howling wind north across a vast prairie through brief, brilliant summers and winters as frigid as any on earth to a metropolis canadians call the gateway to the north, the city whose police department stays very busy. this is detective bill clark. the city is edmonton, canada. today i got a call from a family whose son was killed in december. nothing in a career so strange as the case of a man who went missing and bill clark found himself in another world between fantasy and illusion. have you ever seen a case like this before? never in my life. when it started out, it seemed perfectly simple, a missing man, some guy just dropped out of sight, the kind of thing that tends to sort itself out once the so-called victim sobers up. i m not thinking much is going to come of this. after clark s decades of service in the city with the highest murder rate in canada, you can hardly blame them for getting a little picky. we don t usually go to missing person. unfortunately, for us to come out you ve got to be dead and it had better be criminal. if the patrolman doesn t know it s criminal, don t bother calling us. yeah, you got enough to do. which explains perhaps why some of the locals have taken to calling their city, deadmonton. our concern is, do we have a foul play. the missing person in this case is a man by the name of john altinger. 39, single, worked in the oil industry, liked to ride motorcycles. unlucky with women, yet, a wide circle of friends who are now telling the police altinger seem to have dropped off the face of the earth except the strange emails he was sending. i ve left with a woman, i m going to costa rica. one of the recipients of those old emails, his old friend, debra taichrob. i received several of them. i received six altogether, but in runs of three. the exact same message? hi there, i ve met a wonderful girl named jen. i m going to costa rica and i will keep in touch and call you when i get back after the holidays. johnny. almost formal, and away, suddenly like somebody you didn t really know was sending you an email. absolutely, and i was like that s really odd, it doesn t sound like john. it was odd, and even more so when another friend of altinger s received exactly the same message word for word and altinger s facebook status change from single to in a relationship. i think it was the following day, i was on msn messenger and johnny popped on mine, so i thought oh, he must not have left on his vacation yet, and it said johnny, his name, and then in quotations beside his name, who says i ve got a one- way ticket to heaven and i m never coming back. later that same day, debra got a call from the same friend who told her john altinger seems to be missing. it s surreal, you know. you don t expect your friends to go missing. soon, altinger s friends got together, unsure of what to do, really but before going to police, they decided to try to get into his condo, to see if they could find a clue what happened to get the guy in the break-in, actually. everything looked fine. nothing out of place, no sign of any struggle. the only things missing were his wallet, his keys and his red mazda coop, so it was as if he had gone out for a drive and could be back any minute. there were no answers to anything, like he just vanished out of thin air. except for those strange emails he had supposedly sent about falling in love and coaster rica, which to the cops, said clark, seemed perfectly reasonable. not hard to imagine that a lovestruck man might want to leave the snow and ice of edmonton behind and skip off to the tropics. the sky send these emails to his friends and we are going well, that strange, but maybe he did go to costa rica. stranger things have happened. you never know. that is how clark felt before he stepped through the looking glass. coming up, detective clark is about to follow john altinger s trail into a strange place of make-believe , and up-and- coming directors makeshift movie studio. it s a suspense thriller, actually. it s a short film. as soon as they called me on the phone, i got this weird chill. when dateline continues. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i m keeping the weight off. wegovy® helps you lose weight and keep it off. i m reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only fda-approved weight-management medicine that s proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events in adults with known heart disease and with either obesity or overweight. wegovy® shouldn t be used with semaglutide or glp-1 medicines. don t take wegovy® if you or your family had medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop wegovy® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may happen, including pancreatitis and gallbladder problems. wegovy® may cause low blood sugar in people with diabetes, especially if you take medicines to treat diabetes. tell your provider about vision problems or changes, or if you feel your heart racing while at rest. depression or thoughts of suicide may occur. call your provider right away if you have any mental changes. common side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. with wegovy®, i m losing weight, i m keeping it off. and i m lowering my cv risk. that s the power of we. check your cost and coverage before talking to your health care professional about wegovy®. you re the one that i want nexgard® combo is the only monthly topical that protects against fleas, ticks, tapeworms, and more. use with caution in cats with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard combo,. you re the one that i want .the monthly one-and-done you want. introducing new advil targeted relief. the only topical pain reliever with 4 powerful pain-fighting ingredients that start working on contact to target tough pain at the source. for up to 8 hours of powerful relief. new advil targeted relief. [coughing] copd isn t pretty. i m out of breath, and often out of the picture. but this is my story. ( ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. what a wonderful world [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. condominium, as you can see, looked like anything because breathing should be beautiful, but a crime scene. there were no signs of a struggle, no blood. it was like he just stepped out for a few minutes, could be back anytime. where was he? johnny s friends were convinced something awful had happened to him. so, day after day, they prodded the police; john altinger s condominium looked like anything but a crime scene. there were no signs of a struggle, no blood. it was like he just stepped out for a few minutes and could be back anytime. where was he? and johnny s friends were convinced something awful had happened to him, so day after day, they prodded the police and finally, seven days after johnny went missing, the cops agreed to open an investigation. we just started with the basics. i said with got to start out by finding out if we can find him first so let s find the car. since john altinger s email said he had taken off for costa rica, officers went to the airport to look for that red mazda. they searched every parking lot. it wasn t here. they come through airline passenger lists. he was not on any of them. johnny s friends, meanwhile, went back to the apartment for another look and found, stashed away among his important papers, his passport. they re going oh, not getting out of the country without your passport. seemed like he had to be within driving distance but what direction where? just as the police were contemplating that puzzle, one of altinger s friends came up with another email. this one, johnny had received from a woman he met online. janet was her name, the same woman with whom he had supposedly scampered off to costa rica. they had a date and were going out on the town the night he disappeared and because he had never been to her place, she sent him an email with directions on how to pick her up and out of an abundance of caution, he sent a copy of that email to a friend of his, just in case. i can t remember the last word of the email but he says if anything happens to me, you know where i m at, and you know, laugh out loud. it wasn t a phone number or an address, but there were detailed directions to her place, so the cops drove the root, and the directions led them to this neighborhood down this alley, and to this garage rented by a guy named mark twitchell. he happened to be, in the local arts community, local celebrity. he was making a name for himself in edmonton. he had recently made a low- budget sci-fi movie so they called him up, of course, and he readily agreed to come down and open the place up. when he got here, big surprise, someone had changed the lock. he could not get in, so with permission, officers broken, had a quick look around, and found nothing. just the same, with the changed walk in the weird coincidence of the email, there were things to figure out and mark twitchell was only too happy to tag along to the police station to help out however he could. the first thing i noticed is the padlock did not look familiar to me. twitchell explained he d been using the rented garage is a soundstage most recently for what they call a teaser, a short film designed to drum up publicity , buzz, with any luck, attract enough investor money to allow him to produce a full length feature movie. it s a suspense thriller, actually. a short film. okay, so yeah, suspense thriller? of course, he had a crew in and out of the place during filming, said mark. maybe one of them was up to something but it seemed unlikely, and none of them had ever asked to borrow the set for anything. so, if there was anything like that, if somebody needed to borrow the place or whatever, then they would let me know. they d let you know. they would ask, or something like that, so no, i don t know anything about that. anyway, he said, he had moved on for now to another project. i m working on a comedy right now which is actually a full feature, with a decent budget in the neighborhood of about 3 1/2 million. in the meantime, the garage comes studio was empty, so why would someone break into the place and then change the lock, he wondered. didn t make sense. i had a padlock previously but it wasn t the same one. it was silver on the outside with a black plastic dial in the center and this one was just all metal, so. so, you notice the different padlock on the door. mystifying, said mark. he had a bad feeling about this. a man disappears after telling police he was going to the very place his movie had been shooting. as soon as they called me on the phone, i get this weird chill. what about that woman john altinger had been flirting with online, the one who gave him directions to the garage, told him she would meet him there. the woman who signed her emails jen . does the name, jen, mean anything to you? no. we don t have a jen or anything like that. so, the name jen doesn t mean anything to you? you don t know an actress named jen? so, who was this mystery woman, jen? why in the world which she arranged to meet john altinger here in the very back yard garage and independent edmonton film crew was renting for use as a studio. how odd. especially since the movies producer director, mark twitchell, expressed exactly the same confusion as the police. he didn t get it, either. the dots did not connect. mark twitchell did not know johnny from adam and besides, there was no indication johnny ever made it to the garage at all. the close friends are the ones who have come to the police and they have nothing other than his emails. there was one thing, though, and it came from mark twitchell. he wondered if maybe somebody was being set up. it just doesn t sit right, so the first thing i started asking myself is, who all knows about what we do there and what our schedule looks like and stuff like that. is the disappearance staged somehow? if someone was being fooled, who was it, and why? was all this just some big stunt even a publicity stunt? detective bill clark was thoroughly engaged by now. he had spent a career listening to criminal spender stories. maybe you could figure out if this twitchell guy was trying to play the cops somehow. he pulled the recording of the interview. and i watch an interview, i listen to what the guy says but i m looking at body language, i m looking for signs of deceit. i remember coming out of their going you know, this mark twitchell guy interviewed really well. there were no signs of deception. he is free-flowing with the information. he has answered the questions logically. i don t see any looking away, nervousness, nothing. i see nothing. and then, when police looked into twitchell s production company, they encountered a perfectly legitimate company. more than that, actually. this was a promising effort to help edmonton get some national attention as a potential center of moviemaking. mark twitchell was very good at coming up attention and money from local investors. he was a very sharp, bright, young, articulate entrepreneur. exactly the kind of individual most of us are looking for. so, he checked out. hard-working local boy in the city of hard-working people. good parents, nice young wife, sweet little daughter, on his way to becoming a celebrity here in edmonton. detectives even got a look at the teaser film for twitchell s next projects, three and half million dollar buddy comedy. that is mark in the background playing the role of director even as he was the director, sort of a hall of mirrors type story, a movie about a movie about making a movie or something. fantasy and reality all mixed up somehow. just to cover the bases, police interviewed mark twitchell s crew members and they vouched for him completely. mark twitchell came off squeaky clean. his film company was respected, as was he, and bill clark and the edmonton police back at square one by the look of things. coming up, soon, this tough cop would catch a big break. we got a phone call from a detective. the detective says you won t believe it but this guy just told me he found a red mazda out there. the missing man s car turns up when dateline continues. urns up when dateline continues. -cologuard®? -cologuard. cologuard! -screen for colon cancer. -at home, like you want. -you the man! cologuard is for people 45+ at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for cologuard. i did it my way nothing dims my light like a migraine. with nurtec odt, i found relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don t take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it s time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. a slow network is no network for business. talk to a healthcare provider that s why more choose comcast business. and now, we re introducing ultimate speed for business our fastest plans yet. we re up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds. at no additional cost. it s ultimate speed for ultimate business. don t miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today! bill clark:ok, i m going to get out here. keith morrison: (voiceover) bill clark is, he doesn t mind admitting it, an old school detective, of the sort that seems to exist more on the big screen than the mean streets. det. bill clark:you guys here last night? keith morrison: (voiceover) in fact, bill clark is an old-school detective, the sort that seems to exist more on the big screen than the mean streets. in fact, clark is such a throwback, the younger guys on the fourth kid him. they call him simple it s after the old hard-nosed detective on the top show, nypd blue. i still like coming to work every day. it s just part of my life. i still have the drive. i m still excited about it. in his decades on the edmonton police force, clark and scene murder take many forms, had seen the shattering effect it has on the family. you are the one the family depends on and i take that seriously. ultimately, that is in the back of your mind, that if you don t speak for the family or the dead guy, who is going to? for clark, there is no greater satisfaction than bringing in a killer. i consider myself a pitbull. you get a case and you get your teeth into it. we want to get the guy, we want to get this guy and put them away. as for the john altinger case, this wasn t even a murder, at least, not as far as anyone new yet, so clark kept himself on a tight leash . he had yet to smell blood. he must ve come to some point where you thought oh, there is definitely foul play here. no, not at all. all that they had, after all, was a missing man, johnny, who might just have driven off somewhere with her without some mystery woman named jen. certainly that would account for the fact that his red mazda coop was gone, too, but really aside from a few curious emails that might or might not make any sense, there was not much to go on, so being cops, clark and his colleagues employed standard procedure. they double back for a second look at things, like the garage johnny was apparently headed for when he vanished. we are thinking our next step logically as the garage. so, they applied for a search warrant and it was rejected. it gets turned down because we are told we have not proven there was a crime committed. so, the next step seemed simple enough. clark went to mark twitchell directly to see if he would give permission to search the garage. he goes yeah. i says i ll need you to sign a consent form. he goes no problem. they requisitioned the form, one of the detectives drove it over to mark s place to get a signature and then, the weirdest thing. i get a phone call from the detective. the detective says to me he says you won t believe it, but the guy just told me he bought a red mazda. a red mazda and didn t john altinger drive a red mazda and was in it missing? mark twitchell had not said anything about a red mazda when he came down to the police station and spoke to the detective the night before. he said he forgot. really? why would he forget i like that ? you don t want to get tunnel vision. i for homicide investigation, don t get tunnel vision so keep an open mind so i pull myself back. there is something fishy going on. clark invited twitchell to come back down to the station for a meeting at 10:30 on sunday night, and twitchell agreed. everything you do now, we are analyzing. we caught the up arrow down our scenario. the burial and up arrow for marcuse cooperative. the missing car, big down arrow. but, that s about all clark had to work with. we are just here trying to find this john fellow, john altinger. i don t know what s happened to johnny. because, once again, as the interview proceeds, the young filmmaker is the very picture of cooperation. he volunteers information, answers questions without hesitation or guile. his demeanor is expensive. even an untrained eye can see twitchell s body language is open, comfortable, and control. so, they get to the story about the red monster. he was approached, he said, a few blocks from his rented garage by an agitated man. it was the night johnny disappeared. the man seemed desperate to get rid of his car, said mark. he offered to sell it for practically nothing. he goes well, i shacked up with this really rich lady, you know, it s like a sugar mama kind of situation and she s going to take care of me and she s going to buy me a new car will we get back from a vacation regular take. and i and okay, is there like cocaine in the truck? i m trying to figure out what the catch is here. apparently, said mark, there was no catch, and nothing wrong with the car except that it had a standard transmission, which he didn t know how to drive, so he left it parked in a friend s driveway. does he live close by? yes, a couple of blocks away. is it finally a break? the detective monitoring the interview sent a patrol car to check it out and sure enough, there it was, empty, by the look of it. nothing untoward about the car. johnny is not in the car. meanwhile, bill clark left the interview room partly to regroup, but also to see how mark would act when they left him alone, and if he was rattled, he certainly didn t show it. here, he calmly placed a call to his wife. well, i tried to answer some more questions and fill them in and everything like that and it turns out that the car is, in fact, belonging to this missing guy and that it s a huge deal. that s what this whole thing is about. what in heavens name was going on? bill clark still did not have a clue. but he might in a minute, because bill clark good cop was about to become bill clark bad cop. coming up there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that you are involved in the disappearance of john altinger. you might be involved, but what was fact and what was fantasy? when dateline continues. when dateline continues. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. nexgard® plus helps you protect your dog from fleas, ticks, heartworm disease, and more. all in one delicious, monthly, soft chew. use with caution in dogs with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard® plus: the one you want for one-and-done protection. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid before it begins. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. israel is saying they rescued four hostages during a raid in gaza. the hostages were kidnapped during the nova music festival october 7th last year. officials meanwhile say more than 200 palestinians were killed in strikes by israel nearby, marking one of the bloodiest single days seen in eight months of war. pro-palestinian protesters descended on the white house to voice their frustration with the president s handling of the israel hamas war so far. for now, back to dateline. almost 4:00 a.m. now, downtown edmonton. filmmaker mark twitchell was sitting in an interview room at the playstation tasking talking to his wife on the phone, fading a little. outside the room, detective bill clark watch twitchell, went over a few notes, prepared to switch tactics. it s already started. the game is on. it s me against him. i know it. he also knew, he was quite sure of it, that all evening, mark twitchell had been handing him a whole load of nonsense and expecting him to believe it but also, all evening, as detective clark listened carefully and contemplated his up arrows and down arrows i agreed with everything he said. this is not the time of the interview to start pushing. it was not the time to start confronting him. that would come later on. because, one of those down arrows led to a particular conclusion. mark twitchell thought clark was a dumb cop. twitchell was trying to play him. while you are reading him during that interview, he had been reading you. no doubt. he probably had made some judgments about your ability as an interviewer. what did he think of you, do you think? i think he didn t think i was that smart. i think he thought he was smarter than me and i believe that he felt that anything he told us, he could concoct to make us believe him. and of course, there is only one proper response to that. i just let him go then taken back through it. question-and-answer, standard procedure, just nail down the details now. now i m starting to see he s not remembering specific details. let s go back to your lunch. you are at lunch. would you go for lunch? don t remember. don t know where you want for lunch? no. so now, it was early morning. they had been at it for hours. they had taken a break and let mark twitchell sit by himself and perhaps stew a bit and now had time for clark to play a different role. we done the good cop routine. now my forte, the bad cop is coming in. this is what i like. this is what i relish. there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that you are involved in the disappearance of john altinger. no doubt in my mind at all. i? now i m going to start hammering him with what i know. the problem is, i know very little. but, now that was perfectly clear to mark twitchell that he was a suspect in the disappearance and maybe a murder, his easy camaraderie seemed to shrivel. his eyes glazed with something that looked like fear . was he truly innocent? or, was something else going on, something more in keeping with his role as a storyteller? why can t you give me the version of events that night? has i m scared. as the night dragged on, twitchell doubled something about reality seeming more like some sort of fantasy. but, in the face of all of detectives clark s accusations, mark twitchell never wavered. for nearly four hours, he answered clark s questions always polite, apparently helpful, did not as much as ask for a lawyer. a by the end of the night? i got nothing. my gut instinct at that time is that the sky is involved up to his neck in this but what exactly he s done, i don t know yet, but i m going to find out. finally, at daybreak, mark twitchell let clark know he d had enough. in my being charged? not yet. am i free to go? yes. and i will. okay. and then, as bill clark escorted mark twitchell out of the building and into the early morning dark, he ups the ante a little, told twitchell he was seizing his car . then he goes he almost stopped and pulled back and he goes well, i need to get something out of it and i says you re getting nothing. i m taking that car. and, it was then, as clark approached twitchell s car to take it to the impound yard, that he noticed mark s unusual license plate personalized dark jedi. coming up. i have never in my life felt fear like that. police find witnesses who saw something that seemed like a horror movie. it s like every nightmare you had as a child after watching a scary movie, every nightmare you ve ever had. all of a sudden it s right here. when dateline continues. here. when dateline continues. is no exception. it s time you had a proven choice to help restore what s yours. opzelura is the first and only fda-approved prescription treatment for nonsegmental vitiligo. proven to help repigment skin over time. restoring what s yours. it s possible with a steroid-free cream that you can apply yourself. opzelura can lower your ability to fight infections including tb or hepatitis b or c. serious lung infections, skin cancer, blood clots, and low blood cell counts occurred with opzelura. in people taking jak inhibitors, serious infections, increased risk of death, lymphoma, other cancers, and major cardiovascular events have occurred. the most common side effects were acne and itching where applied. repigmentation is possible. ask your dermatologist today about starting or refilling opzelura. pursue it. you re the one that i want nexgard® combo is the only monthly topical that protects against fleas, ticks, tapeworms, and more. use with caution in cats with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard combo,. you re the one that i want .the monthly one-and-done you want. everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it s a great product. it s going to help a lot of patients. diabetes can serve up a lot of questions. like what is your glucose and can you have more carbs? before you decide with the freestyle libre 3 system know your glucose and where it s heading no fingersticks needed. now the world s smallest and thinnest sensor sends your glucose levels directly to your smartphone. manage your diabetes with more confidence and lower your a1c. the #1 cgm prescribed in the u.s. try it for free at freestylelibre.us stay ahead of your moderate-to-severe eczema. and show off clearer skin and less itch with dupixent, the #1 prescribed biologic by dermatologists and allergists, that helps heal your skin from within. serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems such as eye pain or vision changes including blurred vision, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. don t change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. ask your eczema specialist about dupixent. keith morrison: edmonton homicide detective bill clark, ask your eczema specialist along with other members of the edmonton police service, felt a little like alice in the rabbit hole. their missing man, johnny altinger, had vanished without a trace. and there were whispers his disappearance could be part of some publicity stunt. their only suspect was an aspiring movie producer, a storyteller, who stood up to a bill clark grilling with his manners intact, even though, by this time, clark couldn t edmonton homicide detective bill clark along with other members of the edmonton police service felt a little like alice in the rabbit hole. they re missing man, john altinger, had vanished without a trace and there were whispers his disappearance could be part of some publicity stunt. their only suspect was an aspiring movie producer storyteller who stood up to a bill clark grilling with his man is intact even though by this time, clark could not shake the gut feeling that this movie director was one very bad day. i was thinking he had filmed whatever he did done to johnny. i was thinking he had killed him and filmed the murder. so, as police looked through twitchell s car and home, they had the idea they might find videotape of her murder. instead, what they discovered was an affair. twitchell had a girlfriend and when his wife found out about that, she kicked him out. but, twitchell seemed, at least to the outside world, unperturbed and instead of falling apart, he simply retreated to his childhood home and moved in with his parents and so, clark paid twitchell s dad and mom a visit. they just struck me as a parent for her son does nothing wrong where s the father wanted to hear what i had to say, and he listened but he got over it. they set up a surveillance team, 24 hour watch to keep an eye on the house and twitchell, but his behavior was anything but suspicious. he went on about his business, took meetings with investors about his movie project, even picked up a $35,000 check from his financial backer. the mark twitchell i was dealing with was articulate, in control, running his project the way you would expect any entrepreneur to be running his project. in detective clark s world of up arrows and down arrows there was one more huge up arrow in twitchell s favor. motive, or that is to say the lack of one. there was no earthly reason for twitchell to kill altinger. there was no love triangle, no rivalry, there was no robbery and to put it more simply, twitchell was not a criminal. did not have a record, had never even been arrested. why would a young, married father killed a perfect stranger? so, besides twitchell, police also focus their attention on this quiet suburban neighborhood around twitchell s rented garage studio where john altinger may have gone to see a woman he met online. they went door-to-door , had anyone seen john altinger or his car or anything suspicious? they found this couple who told a story that seemed almost lifted from a horror movie. i have never in my life felt fear like that. these two, their names are marissa and trevor, were out for an evening stroll when they stepped through the looking glass. it happened when a young man came stumbling out of this alley and collapsed in front of them. he was on the ground and it was just an instant bad feeling. he looked up and said i m being robbed. can you help me? then, as if on cue, another man. in pursuit. as i looked up the attacker almost ran into me. the attacker was wearing a dark, hooded sweatshirt and a hockey mask. it s like every nightmare you have as a child after watching a scary movie. every nightmare you ve ever had. all of a sudden, it s right here. this was no bewitching hour. it was 7:30, and early autumn sun had just begun to take on the glow of a long, northern evening. neighborhood kids were still struggling home from soccer practice. is it believable to you? yes and no, because the way that he fell, to me, looked staged. to get us to stop so they could grab us. yeah, we thought it was a set up for us. so, you did not know whether he was going to assault you or whether he was running from that guy for real. exactly. then, so trevor and marissa, the masked man retreated into the alley to this garage. that is where he stood. he stood there like he was protecting something. i was like, i m getting out of here right now. trevor and marissa left the man on the ground pleading for help like some seasoned method actor and left. when i got home, they called the police, so squad cars prowled the streets as the autumn wind light angled toward the horizon but in that quiet, nothing seemed out of place. nothing amiss. that was that until weeks later when police came back here looking for john altinger . was the guy in the alley actually johnny, not an actor, was he a real victim? one of the detectives went downtown to check on the report taken from trevor and marissa, and it didn t fit. that call was taken a week before johnny disappeared. besides, no victim ever came forward. no one claimed to have been attacked by a masked man. the whole thing sounded almost like , well, like a scene from the movie. coming up, or just maybe, a tv show about a serial killer. what attracted you to director? what i loved about the show in the books is how he was able to explore that darkside, rationalize that it s okay to kill somebody because this person deserves it in a way. and dateline continues. y. and dateline continues. but this is my story. 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(dad) we never thought that with verizon, saving on the the best in entertainment was gonna be so easy before. we had to pretend we had seen all these shows. now that we have verizon, we can stop pretending. (vo) disney+, hulu, espn+, netflix and max. all for just $20/mo. only on verizon. her uncle s unhappy. (mom) my turn. i m sensing an underlying issue. it s t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit. unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock.” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it s not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that s uncalled for. to light under the northern sun, especially with the aid of a search warrant. as bill clark and his colleagues closed in on movie maker mark strange things come to light under the northern son, especially with the head of a search warrant. as bill clark and his colleagues closed in on moviemaker mark twitchell, they seized his office computer, found in his house, and on the computer s hard drive, they found this video that looked almost like a movie. a horror movie. no, it was not a snuff film, was not john altinger s murder caught on tape. it was raw footage of one of twitchell s tease films, the one he had told the detective about the first time he d talked to him. it s a suspense thriller, actually. it s a short film. house of cards is what twitchell was calling it. get enough people talking about this and he might persuade some investor to ante up the money for a feature-length film. in house of cards, killer poses online as a flirtatious woman to entrap her victim. in this scene, it is a philandering husband who tells his wife he s heading off to the gym. but, once he arrives at the rendezvous site, the victim is dropped with a stun baton. murdered, then cut up into little bits. imagine a cross between friday the 13th and dexter. the victim in this teaser version was played by edmonton comedian, chris hayward. so, police decided to have a little chat with mr. hayward, but when they showed up at his door, hayward, no slouch when it came to the entertainment business, thought it was a prank of some sort. i worked on reality television. it was one of the first things i got into television on. they throw you curveballs and they have writers and i didn t know. i thought somebody s making this up. this can t be true. this is not a real story. police also tracked down toronto actor robert barnsley who played the starring role of the deranged mass murderer. i was thinking great sure and fill out the short film. i like the idea of this. of course i want to try to be the killer. he seemed like a very normal guy trying to do a film. very nice, very pleasant. playing a serial killer was almost too much fun, said barnsley. it got kind of scary for i enjoyed it too much. you got to be a sadist big- time. absolutely. very fun for me to play. i rather enjoyed doing it. i was thinking my to myself, that i just think i could do this and make it believable? which, said barnsley, was exactly what director twitchell seemed to want. there s a point where i had to stab the dummy through the chest with a samurai sword and he was sitting behind the chair he d be leaning in and say okay listen, when you re turning the blade, grit your teeth and really show that you re enjoying it. wait a minute, was this all about enjoying some fantasy game, pretending to be evil? detectives surfed around twitchell s computer account and discovered a facebook relationship that was all about pretending. at about the time he started filming house of cards, twitchell befriended an animal trainer and aspiring filmmaker, a woman named renee wary. and edmonton detective flew all the way to cleveland to question her, where she, right up front about it, told him about clicking on an intriguing facebook profile, dexter morgan. there was a picture of michael c hall, the actor who portrays dexter morgan on showtime. did you think you are friending the actor himself? sure, you know. what attracted you to dexter? what i love about the show in the books is how he was able to explore that darkside and rationalize that it s okay to kill somebody because this person deserved it, in a way. we flirted back and forth and i kept asking him who are you really, tell me who you are because i want to see the man behind the mask. finally, rene s facebook friend relented. no, he was not actor michael c hall, he admitted. his name was mark twitchell. once he told me who he was, i checked them out, you know. i did a lot of research online and found out that he was legitimate and he was up-and- coming. for rene, the would-be filmmaker, this seemed like her big break. he expressed interest in me and my writing styles and my ideas. what did he like about your writing style? you never said specifically. he just said i think we have, you know, like chemistry together and how we would be able to work very well together , and that we thought a lot alike. this had to be pretty exciting. yes. soon, she was intoxicated by this online collaboration and then wonder of wonders, he offered her work on his next project, the feature-length version of his short film, a film, he told her, about a serial killer. we had talked about our hypotheticals about how to kill somebody and get away with it. he told me well, you do it like dexter because dexter shows you how to do it all the time. dark? yes, but all in fun, of course, like twitchell s playful advice on eliminating, and dexter -like fashion, one of rene s rival in romance. with both her hands wrapped in duct tape, free one arm and slit the wrist. a hunters game processing kit comes with everything you need to cut the body into nice, manageable pieces. disturbing? yes but remember, all pretense. but then, a couple of weeks later, and this is what she told the police, something happened, strange and unsettling. there was a weekend-long pause in their play talk about dexter the darkside. not a single email from her friend, mark twitchell. then, when they came in with it, an apology that also had something else keeping me busy, he wrote. i m really concerned about telling anyone because of the implications. suffice it to say i crossed the line on friday. and, i liked it. crossed the line? what did that mean? coming up. was this all part of an elaborate hoax? a staged fantasy were something truly terrifying, when dateline continues. truly terrifying, when dateline continues. 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(vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon what causes a curve down there? who can treat this? stop typing, and start talking. it could be a medical condition called peyronie s disease, or pd. you re not alone, there is hope. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose and treat pd. visit makeapdplan.com today. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. keith morrison: (voiceover) it was choose acid prevention. halloween in edmonton, canada. halloween, a highlight in most any child s fantasy calendar, the night to be the terrible creature she it was halloween and edmonton, canada. i highlight almost any child s fennessey calendar, the night the terrible creature could never really be. mark twitchell loved halloween. spent weeks, months actually, stitching together getups, outlandish costumes. in 2008, weeks after his wife kicked him out and cops began tailing him everywhere, he decided to be ironman. built the costume in his parents garage. but, on the very witchy afternoon, hours from his planned grand entrance to a gala halloween party, as he was walking to a local coffee house to meet with potential movie investors, he was thrown to the ground by men wearing their own unique costumes. members of the s.w.a.t. team. mark twitchell was handcuffed and charged with the murder of johnny altinger. that made big headlines. police even held a press conference to announce the arrest. the reporters who had gathered were left with one juicy tidbit. we have a lot of information that he idolizes dexter. we went to his facebook page. steve was a crime reporter for the edmonton journal. he had a post that said mark twitchell is too much in common with dexter morgan and the idea that there s a man out there who is attacking strangers, innocent victims, it s almost myth. something built up by hollywood. it didn t seem like it could be real. in edmonton, the question began to circulate. had the cops been played by a clever promoter? mark twitchell is known as a prankster. people thought it was a hoax. you almost wonder whether or not he was doing it as a publicity stunt. exactly. so maybe, bill clark and the rest of the police force would wind up with red faces and not just from the cold. except, there was one little bit of news police did not announce. when they searched twitchell s car, they found a laptop and on the hard drive at that laptop, very smart detective found a deleted temporary file. a document about 40 pages long. could be described as a diary, maybe a far-fetched novel right treatment for a dexter episode. it was called sk confessions. it was a first person account written from the perspective and aspiring serial killer. i remember reading this the first day when they brought it down and i said holy mackerel, this tells us everything. except he s a professional storyteller who tells, you know, movies. they are not real. weren t you afraid you might be about to be drawn into a rabbit hole? something that might be true or not be true, it might be f&s e- absolutely. we had huge discussions about this. it read more like a work of fiction. like a story that could not possibly be true. it seems like a hoax right from the opening paragraph. this is the story of my progression into becoming a serial killer. i don t remember the exact place and time it was i decided to be a serial killer, but i remember the sensation that hit me. it was a rush of pure euphoria. there was something about exploring my dark side the greatly appealed to me. the author seemed inspired by the tv show dexter. i m a huge fan of the showtime series dexter, as you may have guessed, if you re at all familiar with the show. and a particular scene played an important role. i watched an episode of dexter where the flashback showed his father showing dexter a scan of the human brain. he identify the difference between a serial killer sprain in a normal person s brain. i was convinced that what i was was my own decision, my own path, but now i truly wondered if i had little choice at all. of genetics play a bigger role than i thought. i knew i was a psychopath further than he sociopaths because i had the perfect upbringing and no history of abuse, violence, or trauma. in sk professions, it s graphic. how the killer dispatches victims with a mental mental pipe. i thrusted in his gut. his reaction was pure hollywood. the lurch forward with the grant was dead on tv movie of the week. the little i knew at the time and the things i found, thought it was true. cops can have hunches and think what they want, but this hunches really hold up in court. sk confessions could be a make- believe story, might not be written by twitchell. it could ve been downloaded from the internet . investigators started going through sk confessions line by line, to see if they could sort out fact from fiction. and, indeed, police found details that lined up with reality. the writer in his first person account tells the reader how he used a processing kit to dismember the victim s body and police found a processing kit in twitchell s garage. the killers said he tried to burn the victim s body in an oil drum and his parents backyard. at twitchell s parents backyard, they found a burned ring on the back lawn. there was a detail about the killer getting a speeding ticket and so did twitchell about the time that johnny altinger disappeared. he joked about it about how this dumb cop didn t realize he had just killed a guy. he was now going out to celebrate and have sex with his girlfriend. the cop remembered up. it came back and we know the conversation. it was basically word for word that story told us. exactly what the sheriff told us. there was a key part of the story that could not be verified. a passage that goes on for pages about an earlier attack, but that victim got away. that part of the story read like that directly from the house of cards grip where the victim is tasered by man wearing a hockey mask and hood. it s a big part to prove it s true or not. it was a huge part. if someone had been attacked that way, you would ve heard of it. exactly. we got nothing. no call. nothing that even matches the similarity. is seem to be one part of the story that didn t make sense. they went public and released a photo of the hockey mask. that what week somebody s memory that that was me. it was a longshot, really. maybe that person did not exist. they put it out there. they waited. not for long. because, that very evening, a lonely casino security officer named gilles tetreault was puttering on his computer and saw the newspaper article online. the police appeal. they felt the blood drain from his face. that person was him. i am like, oh my god. it s the same hockey mask as i saw, that the guy was wearing. i started reading the story. oh, my god, someone got killed. that terrifying evening came crashing back into his head. it was he, gilles tetreault, who so frightened that couple out for a stroll. he picked up the phone and before long found himself in a little room with detective bill clark. in my career, it was probably the most spellbinding interview i ve ever had with a witness. now, you are about to hear that story firsthand. coming up. all of a sudden i see this man wearing this black and gold hockey mask. this guy was bigger than me. the horror story really happened. life flash before my eyes. oh, my god. my family will never see me again. again. govy®. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i m keeping the weight off. wegovy® helps you lose weight and keep it off. i m reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only fda-approved weight-management medicine that s proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events in adults with known heart disease and with either obesity or overweight. wegovy® shouldn 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[coughing] copd isn t pretty. i m out of breath, and often out of the picture. but this is my story. ( ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. what a wonderful world [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. ceover) when gilles tetreault joined because breathing should be beautiful, the strange developing horror movie plot up in edmonton, gilles tetreault joined the developing horror movie plot in edmonton, canada. a man with a broken heart. lonely in a new city without the wife who had left him for another life. she just wanted to move on? she fell out of love with me, i guess. that s not easy. when he came across that lovely, intelligent woman on an online dating site and she seemed to like him? well, who could resist. she looked beautiful in her profile. i believe i made the first contact. what did she say about herself? she said she was new in town and looking to meet people. i found it a coincidence. so was i kind of thing. with a view alone and looking to meet someone. i thought this is perfect. sheena was her name. she said how about dinner and a movie. she started making excuses that i couldn t pick her up at her front door. so has stayed asked him to park in an alley and comes right back entrance, through a detached garage. she would leave the garage door open and i would go through the garage to the other side, get into the yard and knock on the back door to pick her up. i didn t have to crawl under it. i just had to squat. hopeful, unsuspecting, he walked through the garage door, the store, that leads to the back patio. i touched the not and all of a sudden somebody attacked me from behind. i turned back to look to see what s going on. that is when, all of a sudden, i see this man wearing this black and gold hockey mask. this guy was much bigger than me. prodding me with a stun gun. at first gilles couldn t tell what it was this stinging at the back of his neck. but listen to this from sk confessions? pressing the baton across the back of his neck, pulled the trigger. shocked and jump but did little more than merely alert him to what was going on. i tried to make a run for it. that s when he pulled out a gun. what is that like when somebody pulls a gun on you? terrified. i didn t know what to do. oh, my god, i think i m going to die and i cannot get away. there is no way i can escape a bullet. i felt a sick feeling. i pointed it at him and all of a sudden he took me seriously. his eyes wide. then he yells, get down on the ground. put your face down and close your eyes and put your hands in the back. he took out duct tape. he ripped off a piece. that s when he covered my eyes with them. just about then, gilles tetreault decided hits come to the moment of his death. i started tearing up. it was like life flashed before my eyes. it was quite emotional. oh, my god. my family is never going to see me again. i never told anyone where i was going that day. all of a sudden, by my legs, i hear his belt jiggling. what gilles heard was the sound of handcuffs as they neared his wrists. he said he felt the attacker was undoing his belt. i thought, he is going to rape may. i better fight for my life. i would rather die my way than his way. i knew he s going to pull the gun out again. you know what? if it kills me, it kills me. gilles makes his move. i darted for the gun. grabbed the end and pushed it away from my body. but this fight is far from over. he comes after me and grabs my legs. he starts dragging me back. me e of your health. centrum gives every body a healthy foundation. supporting your - oops - energy, immunity and metabolism. and yours too! you did it! plus try centrum silver, now clinically proven to support memory in older adults. hi, i m janice and i lost 172 pounds on golo. now clinically proven a friend told me that i was the only one holding me back from being as beautiful on the outside as i am on the inside. once i saw golo was working i felt this rush. golo really works. norman, bad news. i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is. xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? he d been lured into a garage then assaulted by a masked man gilles tetreault was in a battle for his life. had been lured into a garage and assaulted by masked man with the gun. now he is determined to turn the tables. get up and rip off the duct tape and i yell at them. i said, i can t do this. i m not going down like this. he started yelling at me. it back down on the ground. back down on the ground. i darted for the gun. grabbed the end and pushed it away from my body. he got back to his feet, having removed the duct tape. when i pointed the gun at him again, he grabbed a. it was the best feeling i felt in my life because i felt plastic when i grabbed it. immediately. who suddenly realized? it was a fake gun. i think i might ve seen a gleam that indicated he felt the gun construction a realized it was not real. i grabbed him by the arms and we re struggling all over the garage. according to sk confessions, by fighting back, had taken the story off script. overestimating the stun baton is a mistake i would not repeat. i should ve just pounded him on the back of the head while he was down until he lay unconscious on the floor. i tried to kick him. he saw me going to do that, so he actually went and swiped my leg and i almost fell down. i almost lost my shoe. i am thinking, i can t get down. if i get down on the ground, you are cooked. exactly. s adrenaline had been pumping and he was unaware how the shock from the stun baton had sapped his strength. my muscles could not move. i was so weak. he goes forward and tries to headbutt meet me. that s when he says, because you did not cooperate, this is the way it has to be. he starts punching me in the head. he stumbled back with every blow, closer and closer to the open garage door. i am letting him punch me. he punches me again. he grabs my jacket so i slipped out of my jacket and ruled under the garage door. i made it out of the garage. i start to try to run. all of a sudden, it s like my legs were paralyzed. i could not move. i fell on my face. a nightmare where you can get away from that monster. i start crawling away on this unpaved driveway. sure enough, he comes underneath the garage after me. grabs my legs and he starts dragging me back. i m thinking, oh, my god, i don t know how i will get away again. i have nothing left. there s nothing else i can do. underneath the door. au he drags me back and throw me back into the garage underneath the door. i m thinking, he does not have a hold of me anymore. this is my chance. i can maybe get away again and i roll underneath the garage door. i got back up, and in my head, i was like, there is no way i am not running this time. terrified. exhausted, gilles tetreault ran 30 or 40 feet to this pedestrian path and that s when he collapsed in front of trevor and marissa. i look up and i see a couple walking their dog. i couldn t really talk. all i could say is there s a man after me. he is trying to mug me, please, help me. they looked stunned. they didn t know what was going on. to me, felt like it was taking the masked man forever to come after me. but he came running after me. he comes close to me and i tell him them, that s the man. as i looked up, the attacker almost ran into me. once he saw the couple, he said, come on, frank. the guy was pretending they were friends. he was pretending he was going to live the mask like we were playing. then he does. he turns around and starts walking back to the garage. i stared back at them through my mask and then headed back for the cover of my layer. it was only once he arrived safe at home that gilles tried to put it together. how? what in the world just happened? who was the man behind the mask? and why had he been attacked? i decided i need to go back onto that online dating website. i want to get as much information as i can so i can give it to police. i go back on and all of a sudden, everything was gone. her profile was gone. although sent and received messages i got from the person were all gone. what is it like to be sitting alone in front of your computer with that realization in your head? it felt almost ashamed. i can t believe i got duped by this woman. i just want to put this behind me. i want to move on. and did not call the police. no, did not. i had no idea. for weeks, i had nightmares. i kept githinking, maybe this g is following me. maybe he s going to attack me again. i was terrified. i was facing him there with a gun. a month after his journey into the twilight zone, gilles tetreault was giving bill clark a videotape blow-by-blow of the assault. there s no doubt he is being truthful. the cops had real evidence that sk confessions was all true. except, it was not quite complete. it was a story without an end. the part we never had, we never had johnny. johnny altinger. the victim who it seemed did not escape from this suburban garage, still no sign of him. unless, just about then the detectives uncovered some of the, updated version of sk confessions. there was one more chapter. in which the killer leaves a clue. impossible to resist. the police take mark twitchell on a journey to the place where something evil had happened. here we are back at the killing garage. killing garage. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. nexgard® plus helps you protect your dog from fleas, ticks, heartworm disease, and more. all in one delicious, monthly, soft chew. use with caution in dogs with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard® plus: the one you want for one-and-done protection. i still love to surf, snowboard, or neurologic disorders. and, of course, skate. so, i take qunol magnesium to support my muscle and bone health. qunol s extra strength, high absorption magnesium helps me get the full benefits of magnesium. qunol, the brand i trust. i m richard lui. is real saying it rescued four hostages during a raid in gaza who had been kidnapped by hamas during the music festival october 7. officials say more than 200 palestinians were killed by airstrikes nearby. marks one of the bloodiest single days and eight months of war so far. a 3-year-old horse took the victory in the 156 running of the belmont stakes. there was no triple crown champion is over two different winners in the kentucky derby and preakness stakes. loved the tv show dexter, was so taken with the whole idea the would be movie direction or dashed director loved the tv show dexter. so taken with the whole idea that he posted this online ad, attempt to sell the script for his house of cards short film as if it were an original dexter episode. in fact, the story of his computer, the one called sk confessions is a lot like an episode of the tv show. now, here in his rented garage, police found what looked like a kill room. there was plastic sheeting. autopsy table. all matching the careful descriptions in sk confessions. what the killer could not learn from dexter s how to dispose of the body. the tv dexter lives in miami, dumps his victims in the atlantic. but, edmonton in the middle of thousands of square miles of farmland and oilfields has hundreds of miles from the ocean and that fact seem to have stymied the sk controller who up had no idea how to get rid of the remains. perhaps it never occurred to him to put the body in the trunk of a car and drive it past city limits and bury it behind some old abandoned barn. so, according to sk confessions, tried burning them. that did not work. he thought about throwing them in the saskatchewan river there one town but was afraid someone would see him. he finally decided to toss them down one of the thousands of storm drains. the diary had got to a point where he talked about dumping the body in a sewer and then it ended. by this time, clark believed that the diary was true. all of it. without a body in a case as bizarre as this one, how could any jury be sure any important parts of this sk confessions wants some fantasy from the dark side? clark confronted twitchell with the evidence hoping he would confess. this reminds me of dexter. kill room. clean sweep. you were referring to your garages a kill room. your garage was a kill room. the table is the killed table. it s where you carved him up. i will show you that later but all the blood seeps underneath. the dude dna matching. when i say the show dexter, and you ve seen the show. it s all modeled after dexter. you know that. you kind of look like the guy. i look at that picture, i saw the one on your website, you even look the same. he kills people who needs killing. these guys who get off in court. the guys get off on technicality. he kills people who needs killing. the difference here is you killed a guy who really was no harm to society. there was no response at all. the next day clark and another detective took twitchell and drove him around edmonton hoping he would give up information. what was his demeanor like? defiant. assiduous show is where the body is. will show us where johnny is and drove right here. parked in front of his parents house. after that? mark twitchell was taken to a place that was the center of his life. here we are the killing garage. the dexter garage. look familiar? we parked on top of the sewer where you d dumped the body? jog your memory. clark even took twitchell to the back of the garage, the suspect a crime scene, hoping it would trigger some level of remorse. bring back any memories? want to tell us where the body is? get this over with? okay. back in the car, another detective heard of camera starts working on twitchell. you humiliate your victim. knocked him over the head. carve him up. chop him up. this pales in comparison. twitchell said nothing, at least not in person. he had said plenty in sk confessions, if he was the author. the document was incomplete, ending in a jumble of unrecoverable computer code. com hon, we are to the point where he dumped the body and we don t know the location. a detective did a slow, methodical search through the desktop computer found in twitchell s home, and it paid up. on the computer, once deleted but now found was yet another version of sk confessions with a view tantalizing paragraphs describing the location of the victim s remains. he talks about a specific sewer. how it s off an alley in a grassy area, and an old neighborhood. he talks about telephone poles in the alley. only certain neighborhoods here have telephone poles. the older ones. that s about the time bill clark became a man obsessed. we were pulling manhole covers up. i d be with a flashlight and looking down. we would call the city crews in. nothing. enough to make a person doubt his sanity. coming up. police were about to get some help. a man that open the case. they stopped right here. a year and a half later, where did you find the body? 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after 1.5 years, call from the city jail, and meet wanted to talk to detectives. his name, mark twitchell. he handed over a print out of this google map. at the bottom of the page there was a handwritten note. location of johnny altinger s remains. it was one block south of his parents house and that alley. this is the alley behind the home. it matched perfectly with the description from sk confessions, and in fact, this area had been searched by police a year and a half earlier. they pulled all these sewers all the covers? all the covers. they searched each one and they found nothing. this block, this area, and they sent cameras down the lines where they go down the lines and sneak them down and found nothing. where do they stop? about where you and i are standing. a year and a half later, where did you find the body? right down there. five telephone poles down half a block from where we stopped the search. this was johnny altinger s tomb. there is a piece of trash he probably thought it would get washed away. deteriorate to a point where it would be unidentifiable or no one would look. no one would ever look. why weeks before his murder trial was set to begin did mark twitchell give up johnny altinger s body? there must ve been a reason. because of all the publicity the case generated, the judge slapped a gag order on the press, the police, everybody. which is one the first day of the trial, the disclosure that altinger s body had been uncovered catches everyone by surprise. the reporter is written a book about the case. it doesn t get more explosive than that. it was new information no one had heard before. the trial only got more bizarre is the prosecution unveiled for the first time sk confessions. sitting in the courtroom became a journey deep into the wilderness of a mind of darkness. horde details were written down. no detail was not told within this document. it sounds just like it is fiction, like a script, but when you step back you realize it s a real person. it is a real man who has been murdered. was johnny altinger murder? twitchell admitted he dumped the remains down the storm drain, he never said he murdered him. never admitted he was the author of sk confessions. detectives knew they would need more than this document to get a conviction. the quietly build a case on csi basics. take the garage. this is what it looked like during the normal light of day. and this is a photo taken from the same angle minutes later once the floor was sprayed with luminal, the chemical that makes blood glow. huge spots in the garage would indicate pooling of blood. we found a piece of a human tooth in the garage. we found blood spatter along the walls and the garage door. hundreds of spots where repeating had taken place. also? csi investigators found this gang processing kit. hunters would take it to cut up a moose or whatever they have killed. this is what he used and every single tool in the kit had our victim s dna on it. in his car, police found other hard evidence. we find a knife and there. a knife with blood. visible blood? visible blood and it matches johnny altinger. he left it in the car? and the car is a gold mine . it absolutely blows the case wide open. there are yellow sticky notes on the console. one has a map drawn from the garage to johnny altinger s apartment. he kept everything. wrote everything down. after the presentation of the hard evidence, his coworkers were called to testify. one of the first was the actor who played the victim in house of cards. on his way to court that morning, he worried. what would happen if twitchell is acquitted? i feel he would probably kill me. chris was not alone. rene was unsettled too the day she testified but for another reason altogether. i didn t want to feel judge. because? i have dark thoughts and i shared them with a serial killer. johnny altinger s friend testified. there was nervousness, for sure. and a lot of sadness that day for me. all i can do is speak for john and the person he was. a nice man. definitely. if things had not turned out the way it did, he would ve found what he was looking for in life. it was the first time she had gotten a clear look at mark twitchell . he seemed like a normal, average person off the street. that is what disturbed me. twitchell remained stonefaced even when his wife took the stand. she is crying through all of this. mark twitchell s reaction was nearly blank. when this video was shown a chord during bill clark s testimony, twitchell became unraveled. he starts to cry and tears are streaming down his face. he is getting hysterical. the judge recognized and they took a break. when it comes back after the break, mark twitchell is no better. still very upset and he is crying. he actually faces detective clark and he starts talking to him. he said i am sorry for lying to you. this is extraordinary. you never have the accused talking to one of the primary investigators in the middle of their murder trial. this was far from the strangest moment of the trial. that came in the case for the defense when the attorney called it one witness. mark twitchell. the room was packed. i think everyone was on the edge of their seat wondering what does this guy going to say? twitchell finally had an audience. when he had been waiting 2.5 years to tell. what a story it was. he said you could blend fiction and reality so closely together that everyone would be fooled. fooled. [coughing] copd isn t pretty. i m out of breath, and often out of the picture. but this is my story. ( ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. what a wonderful world [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. choose advil liqui-gels for faster, stronger and longer-lasting relief than tylenol rapid release gels because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. so for faster pain relief, advil the pain away. hi, i m kevin and i ve lost 152 pounds on golo. because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. i decided to give golo a try. taking the release supplement i noticed a change within the first week and each month the weight just kept coming off. with golo you can keep the weight off. keith morrison: (voiceover) in mark twitchell s trial, the defense had but one witness, twitchell himself. and right from the start, he admitted in mark twitchell, they had one witness. right from the start, he admitted killing johnny altinger . then, he told the jury a story. he said what he has done is cooked up this idea that you could blend fiction and reality so closely together that the people, everyone would be fooled into thinking what is fiction is actually reality. house of cards and sk confessions said twitchell worded very the building blocks to a entertain the concept of book and film. there was more. more twisted reality. to generate publicity, he said he first needed to create an online urban legend by doing a series of harmless staged attacks identical s to those depicted in this movie and novel. so when his movie comes out and when the novel comes out, people would googled this and find out there s this urban legend that maybe the movie is real. maybe fiction is reality. he called a? multi-angle psychosis/psychosis label entertainment. sitting on the beach and there s a palm tree and a beach in front of you but when you pull back, it s not a beach but a picture of a beach. the attack on geo tetra was just a stunt. he allowed his parade to escape. and johnny altinger? that was week too just like the first one. but johnny didn t get the joke and furious there was no woman to greet him, tap twitchell with a pipe. he s got this knife on his belt and he tells the jury in his testimony that he puts his hand on the handle of the knife and just as johnny is about to come at him, his lifting the pipe over his head and mark twitchell sticks his hands out in front of him and the next thing he sees is the knife in johnny s stomach and blood is on his hands and he collapses on the floor and dies. the only inaccuracy is the initial attacker was johnny altinger and he , mark twitchell, disposed of the body and the sewer. police have their answer as to why twitchell gave up the body. it was the prologue of his elaborate tail. his defense is a brilliant idea on the surface. he actually found a way to describe an entire police investigation that incriminated him to get him off scott free. in ohio, rene was following all of this online. i watched the live blog they had, and i was screaming my head off at home. you liar. were you afraid the jury would believe him? oh, yeah. you are looking at for the one person that has that doubt. take the doubt back to the deliberation room. gilles tetreault was in course dash cart the day it was completed. i got to sit in the second row. she looked back, my mom, and saw me. i didn t know how she would feel. she turned around and looked at me. she smiled. she grabbed my hand. she said i m so happy you are still with us. that meant so much to me. what was that like? i didn t know how she would feel toward me. when she did that, it was almost another closing moment for me. not for others in the courtroom. apparently not for the jury s deliberations dragged on. the time rolled on. people are thinking maybe there is someone out there who actually does believe mark twitchell. mark twitchell was a masterful liar, maybe this ultimate fantasy would beguile the jury. then that final audience trooped back into the courtroom and gave him his last review. they found him guilty of the premeditated first-degree murder of johnny altinger . he was sentenced to life in prison. i have never been involved in an investigation in my whole career. you theorizes someone has died. there is no doubt we don t always get it right. here we knew exactly what happened to johnny. because he told you. he told us. ultimately, johnny lettuce to a . and twitchell kept writing about it. he would ve kept writing dash cart killing. i did mark twitchell murder johnny altinger? was it a thrill killing? or something even darker? i think he wanted to experience the feeling of killing and dismembering a body. i think down the road, he was going to produce a film about it . he would be a producer who would tell his cast and crew and actors how to do it and only to himself he would know he has lived it. i think that is what he wanted to do. an ohio, rene, twitchell s friend, arrived at the same disturbing theory. i think he did it for artistic reasons. artistic reasons? i think he wanted to see how someone died so he could make a better story. film it better. write about a better. in fact, mark twitchell himself offered an answer to all the people who wondered why. he was different, he wrote in his sk confessions. he simply could not feel anyone. and so, intentionally or not, he offered a dismal reason for murdering a perfect stranger. it was a single line at the end of that horror movie of his house of cards when the killer tells his wife the best way to succeed is to write what you know. this is this is someone at a park at 3:00 am. i am andrea kncanning and this is dateline. i can t believe she would meet someone at a park at 3:00 a.m. i think she knew the second she got in his car that something was wrong. a college student disappears. i d liketo
norman, bad news. i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is. xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? [crowd cheering] it may not seem like it, but this, is actually progress in play. a shell energy 100% renewable electricity plan lighting every soccer match at shell energy stadium. we re moving forward with the houston dash. because we re moving forward with everybody. shell. powering progress. is it for us. thank you so much for watching. remember, you can watch the nightcap again tomorrow night, saturday at 11:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc but for now, i am signing off and on that note, i wish you a good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late with me. tonight, we are following breaking news and the israel- hamas war. four israeli soldiers are now reunited with their families after being rescued alive in gaza by the israeli defense forces. all four were transferred to a hospital near tel aviv and are in good condition according to medical officials. the free hostages were kidnapped from the music festival on october 7th. that noa argamani,includes seen in this disturbing video being kidnapped and driven away on a motorcycle. it was an emotional reunion for him and his loved ones, including her father, whom she is seen hiding in this video. earlier, president biden reacted to the news during his trip to paris. before i begin my remarks i want to echo president macron s comments welcoming this hostages that were returned to their families and is real. we won t stop working until all the hostages come home and the cease-fire is reached. joining me now from tel aviv is nbc s raff sanchez. what more do we know about how and where this rescue operation was executed? reporter: this rescue operation took place in broad daylight in an area called dave surratt in central gaza. the israeli military says this was based on weeks of intelligence and that they simultaneously stormed two apartments in buildings around 200 yards away from each other. in one of those apartments, they found noa argamani on her own and in the other, they found those three male hostages who were also kidnapped from the october 7th music festival. when those israeli special forces had the hostages in their arms, they gave the agreed-upon code word over the radio. they said we have the diamonds, we have the diamonds. they got the hostages out in armored vehicles. noa argamani was flown back and israel by a helicopter and taken to the hospital here in the greater tel aviv area. i met her father on october 8th. the worst day of this man s life, his world crumbling, his only daughter kidnapped by hamas and i saw him again today exactly 8 months later, and you can only imagine the joy exuberant rating out of this man to have his child back. we had a chance to speak to some of his friends and listen to what they told us about how she is doing. how are you guys feeling? amazing. you saw noa? how is she doing? she s laughing, she is strong, it s amazing. reporter: now, this moment of joy for noa and her family is also tinged with sadness. noa s mother is dying of brain cancer. for these last eight months, it has been her final wish to see her daughter once again and tonight, that wish was fulfilled. noa s boyfriend was kidnapped alongside her on october 7th. he remains inside gaza is one of the 120 hostages still being held there and jonathan, i should tell you that while there are celebrations here in israel tonight, there is absolutely searing grief inside of gaza. the health ministry says at least 210 people were killed by israeli forces during this raid, many of them, women and children. our team on the ground inside gaza sat many dead and dying children being brought into that facility there, so it is a painful split screen tonight between the joy in israel and the grieving going on inside gaza. indeed. thank you. we have also learned that one member of the israeli police counterterrorism unit has died from injuries during the operation. we will be monitoring the story and bring you updates throughout the evening on msnbc. we are also monitoring this out of washington, d.c. where thousands of pro-palestinian demonstrators have gathered outside the white house to protest the united states support for israel amid its war in gaza. they formed a redline around the white house blocking traffic and calling for an arms embargo against israel. white house staff had increased security around the residence and put up protective fencing. now, we put turn to disturbing developments in the presidential election. ever since donald trump s guilty verdict last week, the four times indicted president is vowing revenge in dangerous ways. this week, the presumptive republican nominee for president told us exactly what he plans to do if he gets back in the white house. i think you have so much to do, you don t have time to get even. you only have time to get right. well, revenge does take time. i will say that and sometimes revenge can be justified. reporter: in your first term you did not arrest any of your political opponents but after your conviction last week, has your approach to that changed? the world is different now so when you asked me the question would we do it, i ll talk to you in about three weeks from now. wouldn t it be terrible to throw the president s wife and the former secretary of state think of it. the president s wife into jail. it s very possible that is going to have to happen to them. speaker mike johnson is not waiting to exact revenge on trump s behalf. this week, he laid out how he plans to weaponize the houses oversight powers to go after the federal investigations into trunk. we are working on a three- pronged approach through the appropriations process, through the legislative process, through bills that we will be advancing through committees and putting on the floor for passage and also through oversight. those things will be happening vigorously because we have to do that because the stakes are too high but, as scary as that is, the new york times reports that prominent republicans in and out of government art demanding quote, that elected republicans use every available instrument of power against democrats, including targeted investigations and prosecutions. take, for instance, former trump aid, election denier and soon to be prison inmates, steve bannon, who is urging the prosecution of democrats telling the new york times quote, there are dozens of ambitious backbencher state attorneys general and district attorneys who need to seize the day and on this moment in history. and, bannon is not the only one calling for revenge. i m talking about to it for tat. you just wait and it won t be hunter biden the next time. it s going to be joe biden. it could potentially still be barack obama. it could still potentially be hillary clinton. you have to get in the game, republicans. as every house committee controlled by republicans using its subpoena power in every way it needs to right now starting every investigation they need to right now? we need some brave district attorneys in the united states to step forward and take aggressive action. incredible rogues gallery there, but you notice, there is no mention of actual crimes committed. only enemies to be targeted in a tidal wave of vengeance and retribution. as the new york times knows, quote, the intensity of anger and open desire for using the criminal justice system against democrats after the verdict surpasses anything seen before in transnational tumultuous years in national politics six. what is different now is the range of republicans saying retaliation is necessary and who are no longer cloaking their intent with euphemisms. this is why, for the sake of our democracy, we need to take all of what you just heard, the snarling threats of revenge and the actions to come, very seriously. joining me now, olivia troy, former top aide to former vice president mike pence and anthony coley, former legal affairs analyst and former senior adviser to attorney general merrick garland. thank you both very much for coming to the saturday show. i would love to get both of your reactions to trump suggesting that he s going to jail political opponents. i drama trump projects and says what he plans to do so i think we should take it very seriously but i don t think it s going to stop his political opponents. i think he means anyone who is ever crossed him. he will start with people like you in the media, people like me who have been outspoken critics and there will be actually no justification for it, exactly the point you made it the end of your opening. right now, what is the crime? what are you trying to investigate? but it doesn t matter to trump, because he will bend the rules and put enablers in place to go along with it. before you give your reaction, to what you just said, olivia, what is really scary to me is yes, he is saying all of this stuff and he will try to do all of this stuff and my fear is, i m not sure that the american people will rise up to try to stop him. that s exactly right. what you just said about putting enablers and places key. donald trump has learned one key fundamental truth about washington which is that people our policy. what we have seen here in d.c., they hire people, they surround themselves with people who share their vision and their values and thankfully and his first term, we had enough conservative republicans around him who resisted his very worst instincts, people who put their oath to the constitution, like olivia, ahead of their loyalty to him. they are not going to be that, those people, in the second term. he s going to surround himself in the white house with yes men and in the congress, just imagine if donald trump is president, he is more likely than not to have a republican majority in the congress. they are not going to do legitimate oversight. they re going to do rubberstamps and then we cannot look to the judiciary to save us. he has openly talked about eileen cannon, who i believe is deliberately slow walking this documents case. he talks about how we need more judges like her and i think your viewers have got to understand he has already appointed three justices to the supreme court. so, five of nine justices could be donald trump appointees and that should send a shiver down anyone s spine who loves our country and our constitution. yes, i m trying to remember who it was. oh, it was dan pfeiffer during a podcast interview for he made this exact point. if donald trump gets re-elected you can see thomas and one other justice, alito, retire and he would get at least two more but let s talk about speaker johnson since you invoked congress. speaker johnson, among the things he wants to do, he wants to theoretically allow trump to move state-level charges he is facing in georgia to federal court with the option to then issue a self pardon if convicted. that would totally upend the rule of law in this country. yes, and it is shameful to be someone who supported the republican party for so long to watch this, the party that used to stand for freedom, liberty, the rule of law. now we have completely flipped the script on it but that is a very serious thing in the fact that they are just openly discussing it and saying yeah, this is our plan, and it is for a pardon and they are all on board with it. it doesn t matter. this person committed a crime. there was an entire process that happened. it was a jury of his peers who decided on the conviction. these are cases going on in georgia where there are republicans testifying who are involved in this process, who saw the whole sedition happening firsthand so i think this is a disturbing on so many levels because it is the speaker of the house and he knows better. the other thing is, not for one second should anyone believe these people don t understand exactly what they are doing because they are intelligent and they know exactly calculated what the plan is. what really bothers me is the sense that these prosecutions were not deserved. this is politicization of the u.s. justice department. nothing could be further from the truth. i spent two years at the u.s. justice department. i saw the attorney general put in place people and processes to make sure that facts and law, not politics or anything else, would be the determining factor for investigations and prosecutions. you want more evidence that is what is happening now, look at the fact that right now, the u.s. justice department under joe biden is prosecuting joe biden s son. right, right. i love how joe biden s justice department is going after donald trump but they leave out that joe biden s justice department is not only going after joe biden s son, but also a prominent democratic senator. two prosecutions, so if joe biden has weaponize the justice department, he is doing it all wrong. i can t believe we just got started talking and it s all done. olivia, anthony, thank you very much for coming to the saturday show. up next, hunter biden could take the stands next week as his trial on gun charges enters its next phase. i m officially done switching. (vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon these days everyone is staring at screens, and watching their spending. good vision is more important than ever, but so is saving. that s why america s best includes a free eye exam when you buy two pairs of glasses for just $79.95. book an exam online today. switch to shopify so you can build it better, scale it faster and sell more. much more. take your business to the next stage when you switch to shopify. norman, bad news. i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is. xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? hunter biden s daughter, naomi, was the last person to take the stand in his firearms trial this week but she could end up being the first and only family member to testify in his defense. he is charged with three felony counts for allegedly lying about gun use. his daughter testified she did not see him using drugs around the time he bought the gun. earlier in the week, hunter biden sister-in-law and another former girlfriend appeared as witnesses for the prosecution under immunity agreements. they joined his ex-wife and testifying at length about his addiction to crack cocaine and his struggle to stay sober. the defense team is now deciding whether to call hunter himself to the stand on monday. in an interview with abc news, president biden said he will accept the verdict no matter what it is, and that he will not pardon his son if he is convicted. joining me now, msnbc legal analyst and former u.s. attorney, barbara mcquaid. she is cohost of the hashtag sisters-in-law podcast and is also the author of attack from within, how disinformation is sabotaging america. thank you as always for coming to the saturday show. how risky would it be for hunter biden to testify on his own behalf? testifying on one s own behalf is probably the most difficult decision the defendant has to make and something that the lawyer will sit down with them and discuss the pros and cons. i think on the pro side, the defense here has been that hunter biden did not consider himself to be an addict at the time he filled out that form, that he may have been addicted before and after but that he wasn t, and the question asks, are you addicted to drugs and so if he were to testify, he could say i did not believe i was addicted to drugs at that time. that could be enough to create reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors. on the other hand, when you testify, it puts into play anything that might tend to impeach your credibility, so any prior inconsistent statement, any bias that you might have, any bad things you ve ever done before come into play that would otherwise be not told to the jury, so that is a balance that the defendant really has to decide for himself based on the advice he gets from his lawyer. and barbara, if hunter decides not to testify, where does that leave his defense? it could be that they are done, and i think it leaves that were most cases really end, which is arguing that the prosecution has not prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt so i think what the defense would argue is that although they don t really contest what happened, that yes, he did buy this gun, all the facts that happened, that he was using drugs and all the dates that have been introduced, he did not believe himself to be an addict at that time. proving a defendant s intent and knowledge and mind-set is always the hardest thing for a prosecutor, because you can t read another person s mind is so much of the testimony has been that you know, you didn t see him on that day. you didn t know if he was using on that day. there certainly has been testimony that he was using right up around that day so it requires a little bit of circumstantial evidence for the jury to find guilt beyond a reasonable doubt but it seems like there is plenty of evidence there from which they could draw that inference. let s turn to donald trump s criminal convention. the judge sent a letter to both sides yesterday about a social media, reporting to preview the guilty verdict. how seriously do you take this potential claim of a jury week? not at all. it is interesting. many courts have these, which are unmoderated message boards where people can comment. they were set up with the idea that you could engage in good public discourse but of course there are all kinds of people out there who engage in mischief and worse, so this person has said oh, my cousin says a verdict is coming. i think the judge here, out of an abundance of caution, wanted to be up front with it and not try to hide it. certainly there would be people out there who would point to this as some sort of conspiracy that the fix was in, and so the judge has disclosed this to the parties so that if they want to explore this, they may do so. manhattan district attorney alvin bragg told the house judiciary committee he will come testify about the case but not until after trump s sentencing. should brag actually show up? would he be walking into a show trial whose sole purpose is to discredit him and his successful prosecution of the case? yes. i really worry about this idea of the accusations of the weaponization of criminal charges. donald trump that due process every step of the way in this case and i worry that there is a real separation of powers issue here to try to probe into the mind-set of what prosecutors are thinking when they bring a case, so that is a risk. certainly there is oversight that exists when there are federal prosecutors but there really isn t that kind of oversight over state court prosecutors. there could be [ inaudible ] to the extent that alvin bragg s office accepts federal funds so the thing to do would be going after this case is over. all right, we re going to have to leave it there. thank you, as always, for coming to the saturday show. up next, brace yourself. with three weeks left in the supreme court session, there are several decisions to be handed down that will be consequential, even life- changing for americans, from donald trump s immunity claims, reproductive rights and more. hi honey. ahhh.ooh. look, no line at the hot dog stand. yes! only pay for what you need. liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. if you spit blood when you brush, it could be the start of a domino effect. new parodontax active gum repair breath freshener. clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease. a new toothpaste from parodontax, the gum experts. nothing dims my light like a migraine. with nurtec odt, i found relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don t take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it s time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. 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[smoke alarm] recipes written by hand and lost to time. can now be analyzed and restored using the power of dell ai. preserving memories and helping to write new ones. we live our lives on our home s fabrics. and though we come and go, our odors stay. it s called odor transfer. left untreated, those odors get trapped inside fabrics and then release smells into your air. eww. you need febreze fabric refresher. its formula is proven to deliver. . long-lasting odor fighting power, so you can enjoy long-lasting freshness - even hours after spraying. the more everyone sprays. . the fresher your whole home stays. febreze fabric refresher. on medicare? have diabetes? when enjoying life s special moments are you left guessing which foods are right for you? with the freestyle libre 3 system you ll know your glucose and where it s headed no fingersticks needed. freestyle libre 3 manage your diabetes with more confidence and lower your a1c. so you can focus on those special moments. covered by medicare for more people managing diabetes with insulin. talk to your provider or visit freestylelibre.us/medicare supreme court justice clarence thomas has finally acknowledged the luxury getaways she accepted as gifts from a republican billionaire. he updated his financial disclosure forms to include two trips he took with millionaire donor harlan crow. they were estimated to be worth more than $500,000. thomases friendship with crow has fueled serious concerns about partisanship on the high court, especially with the consequential case is coming up this term. justices still have to release more than two dozen decisions over the next three weeks, touching on several issues from abortion access to trump s claim of presidential immunity. and then, there is reason to fear the worst from the court that overturned roe v. wade. recently justice sonia sotomayor shared this morning about the road ahead. there are days that i have come to my office after an announcement of a case and closed my door and cried. there have been those days, and there are likely to be more and there are moments, and yes, even i feel desperation. joining me now, ian mel heiser, author of the agenda, how a republican supreme court is reshaping. firsters traverses the united states. this is his claim of presidential immunity. i trump is already won this case. what the court is probably going to do is say president sometimes have immunity and send the case back down to a lower court to figure out if trump does in this case but none of that matters. the issue is are we going to have a trial before the election and they have already run out the clock so much that i think the answer will be no. okay, fisher versus the nine states, this is weather january 6 participants including trump can be charged with obstruction of an official proceeding. i was very surprised at how the oral argument went. there have been like 16 judges would ve heard this claim and only two of them have said that the statute should be read narrowly so these january 6 defendants essentially get off. there are about 1200 january 6 defendants including trump and only about 3000 of them have been charged under the issue here so it s a good chunk of people who participated in the insurrection. all right. the mifepristone case. how do you think the justices are going to rule on that? of the two abortion cases, that s the one i m most optimistic about. i think that they will leave it alone? that s correct. almost half of all abortions in the u.s. are performed with mifepristone and if they accept the lower coats reasoning to bennett so many other drugs would be banned. these guys don t like abortion but they don t want to ban antibiotics. that s the good news on abortion there. thank you for the help. don t worry, i ll spoil it in just a second. exactly the next one is whether federal law regulating hospitals trumps abortion bans when it comes to performing emergency abortions. i m worried about this case. there is a federal law that does not refer specifically to abortions but it says that if you go to an emergency room and you have a medical emergency they have to stabilize your health condition so if the appropriate treatment is on abortion, the law right now says you have a right to an abortion. i think based on the oral argument, they are likely to write that out of the statute or at least put some kind of limits on it so that people who need life-saving or health saving abortions will be able to get them anymore. now, here is the case that i don t think a lot of people even know about, and this is euphemistically known as the> case and this is whether to overturn the landmark supreme court ruling in the case that gave federal agencies leeway to interpret the law. sounds very dry, but explain why this case, to your mind, is the most important case decision. this is most hypertechnical but also the most important. there are scads of federal laws that delegate power to a federal agency. everything from how mac how much emissions come from power plants to who gets overtime pay is controlled by federal agencies. chevron is a case from the reagan era that said courts should generally let agencies do what they need to do and defer to them. what the court is likely to do here is essentially give itself a veto power over everything the agencies do, so it s not just at the huge transfer of power and a huge transfer of power from the democratic biden administration to a supreme court that has a 6-3 republican majority. to your point about regulating antibiotics, that would give them purview over the fda, right? potentially. the fda has its own statute, which is different than the regulatory regime that concerned chevron but what we seen from the supreme court overall, they ve been making up all these things with names like the major questions doctrine that lets them interfere with agency so. in the u.s. versus rohini case allowing domestic abusers to have access to firearms, will the supreme court make that happen, let that happen? i think they realize they screwed up. they handed down a big program decision that led to this decision. i think they re going to have to walk it back. you ve given us hope on two cases. thanks for coming to the show. still to come, president biden delivers a powerful speech in defense of democracy as he commemorates 80 years since americans landed on french shores to defeat the forces trying to destroy it. my political panel joins me next to talk about the message, and more. more. hello. my smile is back on point. easy. shingles. some describe it as an intense burning sensation. or an unbearable itch. this painful blistering rash could also disrupt your work and time with family. shingles could also lead to long term, debilitating nerve pain that can last for months or even years. if you re over 50, the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. 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( ) don t wait. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles today. sara federico: at st. jude, we don t care who cures cancer. we just need to advance the cure. it s a bold initiative to try and bump cure rates all around the world, but we should. it is our commitment. we need to do this. i still love to surf, snowboard, and, of course, skate. so, i take qunol magnesium to support my muscle and bone health. qunol s extra strength, high absorption magnesium helps me get the full benefits of magnesium. qunol, the brand i trust. it s hard to run a business on your own. make it easier on yourself. with shopify, you can have your inventory, payments, and customers in sync across all the places you sell. start your journey with a free trial today. today was an eventful day for president biden in paris. president macron honored them. the two presidents attended a wreath laying ceremony at lark to triumph in paris and a dinner at the presidential palace. earlier this week they attended ceremonies in normandy marking the 80th anniversary of the d- day invasion that turned the tide against germany and the second world war. in his remarks, president biden thanked veterans who were there, some of them 100 years old, thank them for their bravery and heroism and highlighted the importance of american democracy during another speech the next day at the pointe du hoc memorial. we talk about democracy. we often talk about the ideals of life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, but what we don t talk about is how hard it is. american democracy asks the hardest of things, to believe, to be part of something bigger than ourselves, so democracy begins with each of us. begins when one person decides there s something more important than themselves. joining me now, former congressman david jolly and former adviser for [ inaudible ] former campaign. welcome. david, i m going to start with you. talk about the importance of president biden s tribute to american soldiers for d-day. that was really a remarkable moment for an american president at pointe du hoc, recognizing the valor and courage of americans and servicemembers from around the globe that fought for freedom. doing so in a spot that was immediately recognizable and the reason it was so powerful was not just joe biden and his words. it fit perfectly as he thousand political message about the soul of america and the importance of freedom in the west but i could not help but contrast that with pictures of donald trump at helsinki where he sided with russia, where he questioned our own democracy and then you bring in the events of january 6, the contrast between what joe biden did right there as an american president recognizing freedom on the world stage but speaking to every american voter about the importance of their freedom right here at home that is under threat. the contrast between that and donald trump made for that moment to be that much more remarkable. you know, i would love to get your thoughts on the president s speech and whether it resonates with the voters back at home but i have to say, watching those veterans, particularly the african- american veterans who were there, just how poignant that moment was for them. i mean, he showed strength. he showed what america should look like is a global leader, something that symbolizes democracy. i do think it recognize resonates with the segment of american voters, those who understand the history. the fighter biden campaign has a devoted to grow up with barack obama, donald trump, they don t connect with this is much as older voters do. however, showing his force there, showing his strength there just a post with how donald trump looks with world leaders, i think that is going to play well for president biden here as we get closer to election day. nbc news reports that donald trump has narrowed the list this week between marco rubio, tim scott, and jd vance of ohio. all of them were critical of trump at one point or another, but what is trump looking for in a vice president this time around? someone to say yes, and someone to not detract from his ticket or in the case of bergen, someone who could write a really big check to support tom s campaign and what bergen has going for him as we could go all the way to november for the nation knows who this guy is. maybe he is a very nice guy. we saw him try to be somewhat reasonable during the primary. we know he has high marks as governor but donald trump is looking for somebody to fall in line. marco rubio has long been my dark house horse. he s now moved up. he s in the final four because he played the politics of donald trump right. he didn t relitigate his flip- flop for the past eight years, he just flopped. he reminds nikki haley voters that there are people like nikki haley still supporting donald trump but the vice president is not going to change. the vice presidential nominee is not going to change donald trump s behavior nor the parties platform. what the country should hope for is somebody capable of governing should donald trump end up not being able to serve. so, alencia, of those four people , who do you think he s going to pick? it s a crap shoot however, i think he might pick someone like tim scott given that it gets diversity on the ticket. in air quotes. they ve been trying to run black candidates in certain areas. republicans are trying to get away from being called the party full of white supremacists and racists, so tim scott falls in line and he happens to be a black man. maybe. i heard there s an awesome new book written by jonathan capehart that s about to drop. the wager will be the new k part book that it s not tim scott. well, that looks not coming out until later in the year, knock on wood. am excited about it. thank you very much. that s very nice of you. in the few seconds we have lester left, i will say the one thing we know about donald trump as he is biggest on appearances. he gave somebody the department of defense secretary job because he looked the part and so of those four characters we saw before, governor bergen looks the part to donald trump s mind, that is. in the time i spent in his head. former congressman david jolly, alencia johnson thank you both very much for coming to the saturday show. up next, the trump campaign is making a big play for black voters but given the former president s rhetoric and disrespect for topline officials, i m not buying it. charles coleman junior joins me after the break to discuss. jo after the break to discuss. good to go off the grid. good to go nonstop. with cabenuva, there s no pausing for daily hiv pills. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. it s two injections from a healthcare provider. just 6 times a year. don t receive cabenuva if you re allergic to its ingredients or if you re taking certain medicines which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions, post-injection reactions, liver problems, and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver or kidney problems, mental health concerns, and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects include injection-site reactions, fever, and tiredness. with cabenuva, you re good to go. ask your doctor about switching. i told myself i was ok with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms. with my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. but just ok isn t ok. and i was done settling. if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that can rapidly relieve joint pain, stiffness, and swelling in ra and psa. relieve fatigue. and stop further joint damage. and in psa, can leave skin clear or almost clear. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. done settling? ask your rheumatologist for rinvoq. and take back what s yours. abbvie could help you save. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. donald trump and his campaign are making a very public play for the black vote. even vice presidential hopeful tim scott, the african-american senator from south carolina, the only black republican in the chamber, has started a political action committee to target minority voters and good for them. they should ask for our vote, but scott told the ap quote, much to the chagrin of many folks, there is no doubt that african-american men are wide open for a political shift of partisanship. i don t know about all that. but, black voters all voters should be aware that while they are smiling and black men s faces, trump and his campaign are denigrating black men in plain sight. for instance, michael tyler is the communications director for the biden-harris s re-election campaign. quentin fox is the principal deputy campaign manager. these two black men you see on the screen of the most senior african-americans on the campaign, role models and yet, the trump campaign and the rnc continually refer to these two black men as quote, junior staffers, or junior biden campaign spokesman. some of you might think, what s the big deal, it s just a title. when you re african-american you learn quickly the ways in which her stature, prominence or authority are undermined in the eyes of white people, and that is exactly what trump and his campaign are doing, but we shouldn t be surprised. trump is running his campaign the way he has lived his life. going after black men. trump did it in the 1980s when he went after the central park five, demanding they get the death penalty for a crime they didn t commit even after dna evidence exonerated them. he did it in 2004 when jackson was a finalist on the apprentice reportedly sign quote, what america aye a blank winning? n word. the spokesperson from the trump campaign has denied the story calling it completely fabricated but trumps disrespect for black men was evident when president obama was in the white house. trump actively undermined obama s legitimacy by promoting the racist brother lie that he was not born in hawaii, but can you. now, he s doing it to quentin foltz and michael tyler and i m here to call it out. don t ask for our votes in one breath then denigrate someone who looks like us in the next. but, let s be real. this is not about getting our votes. it s about setting up a permission structure for white voters to cast a ballot for him. after all, how can he be racist if he s asking for their vote, right? wrong. joining me now, msnbc legal analyst charles coleman junior, civil rights attorney and host of the charles coleman podcast. charles, i wanted you to be with me in the segment specifically because of that pin you where every day and every show. what does that pin say? yes, this is my black brilliance pen and i m so glad you asked about because for me as a black man who is a professional who walks in different spaces that in many cases, i find myself being the only one of many. i am someone who understands the importance of affirming myself and my brilliance because as is the case with quentin and michael, i can expect that even as i have done the work, even as i have gotten the title, is an as we have ascended through the ranks that other people are going to affirm it as well so it s a soft affirmation and an affirmation for people like you, as well, who find themselves trying to make their way in worlds that are often not friendly to us. what you say to that question saying how could donald trump be racist, you know, if he s going for their votes? why is that that s not good enough. this is a very nuanced question because i think what people have to understand when they re talking about black men and their voting patterns, particularly as it relates to the selection, the biden campaign is battling two major campaigns. the first one is misinformation. there are a lot of voters who are misinformed or underinformed about the progress that administration has made on their accomplishments and in some cases, they ve been told wrong information. the other thing they are battling, is regardless what it is you re saying, people are going to vote how they feel and that s why it s even more important that outreach occur on a proactive level. if you are talking about, for example, a record low and unemployment of black men but that low is still higher than the national average and higher than other white men, then it still feels like your last. it looks do we have charles? let me buffer for a second. there you go. real quick, finish the last part of your answer, charles. what i was saying is that it is something the biden campaign has to be aware of, regardless of the notion of racism in terms of how donald trump tries to siphon off voters from a pretty solid democratic block. that is an important point people have to understand. people are going to vote how they feel more than anything else. and i hope people feel that they should not vote for somebody who says vote for me, well you know, around the corner is denigrating people who look just like them because you are setting yourself up for failure. charles coleman junior, thank you very much. sorry the conversation was so quick. i hope to see you soon. or of the saturday show on msnbc after a break. msnbc after a break. 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100%. judy s family says they can finally move on with their lives. there is one thing that brings them peace. you are religious. does that give you any comfort to know your mom and dad are now together? they are in a better place than we are. what would you say to judy? i will tell her that i love her and i would give her the biggest hug. that is all for this edition of dateline. thank you for watching. ank you this sunday edition of morning joe weekend. it was another fast-moving news week. here are more of the conversations you ekmight have missed. donald trump and his allies are ratcheting up their calls for revenge against democrats in response to trump s conviction in his new york city criminal trial. some examples. in a fox news interview on friday, former white house advisor stephen miller called le on republican secretary of state and attorneys general to quote, get in the game and use every facet of power to go toe to toe with democrats. florida senator marco rubio who is reportedly in the mix to be trump s running mate which would make sense given his behavior wrote on social media quote, it s time to fight fire with fire. in response to a new york times piece about recent calls for refry abuse, former white house chief strategist steve bannon echoed stephen miller telling the paper quote, there are dozens of ambitious backbencher state attorneys general and ne district attorneys who need to seize the day and own this moment in history. then there is trump himself. in s an interview earlier this week he suggested hillary clinton be jailed in response to his guilty verdict. and here s what he said at his florida home yesterday in a fox news interview last night with sean hannity where you see hannity trying to get him to the right answer but no. take a listen. you can t gag a nominee. can you imagine you re running for office and you gag. you re not allowed to talk. when that happens we are no longer a democracy. and we re not going to let that happen. and i know a lot of republicans who want retribution. they want to do that we re going to see what happens. people are claiming you want retribution. people are claiming you want u what has happened to you done to democrats. would you ondo that ever? look, what s happened to me has never happened in this country before. and it has to stop because wait a minute, i want to hear that again. it has to stop. we re not going to have a country. if you re elected awhat doe that mean? define that. what i ve gone through nobody s ever gone through. i m a very legitimate person. i built a great business. focus on those that want people to believe that you want retribution. that you will use the system of justice to go after your political enemies. number one, they re wrong. it onhas to stop. otherwise we re not going to have a country. look, when this election is over, based on what they ve done, i would have every right to go after them. it s easy because it s joe biden and you see all the criminality. will you pledge to restore equal justice? equal application of our laws? end this practice of weaponnization? is that a promise? you have to do it. but it s awful. look, i know you want i m asking. i don t want to look naive. what they ve done to the republican party, they want to arrest on no crime. i will do everything in my power not to let, but this tremendous criminality here. what they re doing to me if it s going to continue we re really not going to have much of a country left. okay, willie. help me out here. first of all, no criminality. this was not biden s justice department in the criminal trial in new york city. it was a yjury of donald trump peers, 12 people and alternates. just to fact check him right there. but also hannity, mr. softball, setting him up saying come on, come on, you wouldn t actually have retribution. you don t mean that. of course he s like yes, i do. just like what the documents. when hannity was like come on, you didn t actually take the documents. donald trump is kenot messing around. he promises retribution and as he even told hannity when hannity gave him a chance to semi cover it he will serve it up. so, with that, i mean i m not sure what more people need to know given a lot of things donald trump has promise have had come to pass. i m not smiling about the substance of what the president said, i m smiling with what you put your finger on which is this entire genre of interview where sean hannity embeds the answer into his question and tries to lead donald. i wish my oral exams in high school and college were like that where the teacher would just nod along and give you the answer. that s the way they do it. he said donald trump in the remarks we played before that clip he said a malot of people are saying they re going to want retribution. so he likes to separate himself but obviously he means himself and obviously sending cues to others about what should happen. again, he was charged, he was tried, he was convicted by a jury of his peers in new york. the fact that he took classified documents back to his beach club is not some imagined conspiracy against him. he did. hing we ll see what happens in that trial as it moves forward. he wants retribution against people, the justice department, the fbi who are actually bringing him to justice on things that he did or is alleged to have done. let s bring to the conversation yeah. one thing before we get to our guests. it s so interesting to me that n he says this has never happened before and that s why something needs to be done. in every case, well, i will say in the most clear cases because obviously we have to wait for the law to play out. but in the case of the documents you see the pictures. he says he took them. he says they re his. he admits to the crime. in the case of the hush money. criminal trial where 34 felony counts against donald trump came up guilty, there was evidence presented in court that backed it up. so yes, yes, mr. president, former president trump, this hasn t happened before. there hasn t been a former president who had sex with a porn star while his wife was pregnant and then years later before a campaign was to get into full swing paid off through hush money through a fixture breaking campaign finance laws and having fraudulent business records. i mean that is not happened before. he s right, otit hasn t happene before. but it s unfortunately what happened to him because of his own actions. right. and change the suspect from subject to some imagined conspiracy that suggests the government is out to get him. let s bring in ceo of the massina group jim massina. and ran obama s 2012 reelection campaign 20successfully, of course. jim, great to see you. you often are the guy who comes in and sort of tries to calm the nerves a bit of democrats b when they get panicky. not in some polly anish way, but looking at data, looking at normals. let s talk about the fundraising that scared a lot of democrats after donald trump was convicted last week on 34 felony counts. raised a boatload of money. put that into some perspective though as compared to how the biden campaign is doing. yeah, if you look at the overall numbers biden continues to have a very healthy fundraising lead. has way more money in eathe ban i know this sounds geeky, but the truth is joe biden s money is all small donors whereas donald trump s money is from m big donors who are giving to his super pacs. that ad buying later in the campaign is more expensive. they can t get the lowest unit rate. most importantly, the one thing you can t make more of in a presidential election is time. we re 152 days out and the biden campaign has over 150 field offices staffed with paid staffers in the battleground states. donald trump has zero. so every day these people are talking to voters both their own base and these swing voters and you just can t replicate that with money. we always knew that trump was going to catch up weafter he go the nomination. he clearly had an outstanding day after his criminal conviction. it s a little cynical they raised a bunch of money after he was found guilty of 34 felony counts. it y is what it is. overall the biden campaign is doing what they need to do which is build a massive army in these battleground states. the biden campaign looking forward to that first debate as a moment to change fra joke tour of the race. we re seeing polls shift a little bit towards the president. let s owget you to weight in yesterday. this wall street journal story about the president s age. we can set aside the marriage of the journalism. there were flaws in the story we covered at length yesterday. polls suggest some americans think the president is too old for office. we know donald trump just a couple years younger. if you were still in the white house, what would your communication strategy be to simply manage the issue. fair or not it s out there. how would you suggest the white house and campaign handle it? by doing exactly what they re doing. getting him out there as much e as they can. about getting an early debate. you re exactly right. it is an issue. people have questions about it. we all remember at the state of the union he did a master performance and looked on top of his game and the polls rose then. this debate moment is really, really big for them. i can t believe donald trump is letting them have it. people expect joe biden to not be as good as donald trump. trump has set all the expectations to the top activity moon. he s this great or tore. he s this great guy. joe s sleepy joe, et cetera. joe biden goes in there and has a good debate and it s going to significantly make people think about their perceptions of this race. i think it ll be a very big moment and i think biden was very smart to ask for a debate as early as he could get it. we ll be right back with much more morning joe. ore morn. sup? -who are you? i m your inner child. get in. listen. 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[vroom] [train horn] [buzz] clearing the way, [whoosh] so you arrive exactly where you belong. everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it s a great product. it s going to help a lot of patients. there is actually axios has reporting this morning quoting steve bannon. take it for what it s worth. a voice of a maga world saying they re going to go after alvin bragg first to try to put him in jail. a lot of people go oh, it s donald trump popping off. it s what he does. he s calling in to newsmax. you have to take this stuff seriously given not only who he is but who he has surrounded himself with. we ve learned when he make as threat like this we have to take it seriously. and what s different here, there s been republican anger for years now. they claim the witchhunts against donald trump. what s different about this verdict is how out in the open it is. there s no euphemisms here. there s no let s be clever. they re saying we re going to go after those who have done this to donald trump. yes, steve bannon talking about alvin bragg. we have speaker johnson. the house speaker saying they re going to look at the department of justice and try to defund a lot of what it can do as payback for the biden doj going after donald trump. now of course there s a limit to what they can actually do. the threat is still there. it erodes americans faith in our institutions. this has been one of the most dominant themes of the trump era is going after, perceiving whether it s the fbi or the media and they have singled out those of us there as well as targets for retribution. and trying to get americans to say hey, look, they re not on our side. they re for them and really vilify everyone and it s putting us in a dangerous place. the most dominant aspect, i would suggest. not one of. the most dominant aspect. and you know, largely this is my personal view now. but at some point americans have to ask themselves what kind of a country do we want. in this particular day it s almost sack religious to be talking about donald trump said and what he means and what he s going to do. we just spoke to a man who just finished a book on eisenhower talking about the night before d-day when general eisenhower went through the 101st airborne shaking hands and he knew every other hand he shook was a young 18, 19 or 20-year-old paratrooper who was going to die within 12 hours on the beaches in normandy. we were going to lose a young american. why were they going? they were going to fight for democracy. all these years later, 80 years later, democracy is again in peril. that s a fact. that s a fact. listening to donald trump, that s a fact we have to live with. that s a fact that americans are going to have to make up their minds about. what kind after country do we want going forward? we may hear some of that theme from president biden tomorrow at normandy when he delivers the address. he ll be there all week as you reported yesterday. he ll be at bella woods later in the week the world war i site. talking about the young men who frankly saved the world in those days, weeks and months but also about bringing it to today and the threats of democracy here. it s hard not to be almost emotional thinking about this scene with eisenhower. we ll hear from the president several times this week. his remarks tomorrow will be relatively brief. it s the next day, the friday where he goes where ronald reagan delivered his famous speech. talking about yes, the sacrifices of 80 years ago that helped save the world. but connecting it to today. the battle we re seeing in ukraine. also just the need to affirm and rebuild democracies across the globe. i m told the odds are against him invoking donald trump by name. trump will shadow this. he will draw an implicit contrast to the future that trump will bring versus the one that he would. one with allies. one with defending democracy. we know donald trump will take a different approach to the ukraine war working to be returned to office. he almost pulled autoof nato on the eve of going to helsinki. we ll hear that in grand terms from president biden in what aides tell me will be one of the most important speeches he delivers this year. one that will not on the surface be a campaign speech. yeah. we just talk about the choices. mike talking about the choices. we hear what he said about hillary clinton. we re talking about nato. donald trump trying to undermine nato. said he wanted to undermine nato. said a couple months ago he encouraged vladimir putin to invade nato countries if they didn t have sort of defense structure that he wants them to have. of course he talked about putting hillary clinton in jail. throwing political opponents in jail. his people have talked about throwing us in jail. throwing people that run this show in jail. they ve talked about throwing media companies in jail that are insufficiently loyal. he talks about executing chairmans of the joint chiefs of staff who are insufficiently politically loyal to him. he talks about terminating the constitution. he talks about using seal team six to execute political opponents and says that he would be immune from that. he had his lawyers argue that in court. go through all of it and it is extraordinary. it s extraordinary that this man is talking like an autocrat. talking like putin and that right now this race is too close to call. i think it s really worth pointing out that the difference between trump in 2020 and trump in 2024 and trump in 2016 is this time around his team and campaign are much more focused on how they would do exactly the kinds of things you ve spoken about. they ve drawn up the policy papers. they ve dug in to the workings of the american government to see how they could effectively take control of the fcc. of the doj. use the irs against political opponents of theirs. they ve been very honest about the idea of using this second administration for retribution against those people who have counted donald trump. it s sometimes easy with donald trump because we hear so many things that are out of the norm they go well, it s just another thing donald trump says. behind donald trump in 2024 is a whole infrastructure of people putting in place the plans to follow up with the kinds of things that donald trump is saying out on the campaign trail. they didn t manage to do much of it in 2016 because they weren t prepared. this time around they re making sure they are prepared. so the group republican voters against trump is launching a new billboard ad campaign looking to persuade moderate republicans and republican leaning voters in four swing states. the billboards feature former trump voters who now say they won t vote for him in the wake of his conviction last week in his new york city criminal trial. let s bring in the executive director of republican voters against trump sarah longwell. she s also a publisher and host of the focus group podcast. thank you so much for joining us. to tell us more about this campaign and what you re hearing from republican voters. question after the conviction, the political question is will voters care? and from our perspective you have to help make them care. the republicans are out there right now and they are building their own narrative. building their own echo chamber. they are all singing from the same song sheet that this was rigged, that we have a two tier justice system. we have to go on offense right now and make sure voters understand how unique, how historically unique in a desperately dark way it is to have a convicted felon running for president. so our program republican voters against trump, it hick hinges on a key theory which is you need credible messengers to speak to these vote percent. we have hundreds of people who voted for trump in the past, many voted for him twice who are explaining and there s testimonials all over our website explaining why they won t vote for trump again. but after the conviction we wanted to make sure that it stuck with people. we have watched donald trump extraordinary things have happened. like his own vice president not endorsing him. and yet it kind of just rolls off voters minds. trump s been around for a long time. we have two functional incumbents and that create as dynamic where voters aren t as tuned in in ways they might have. you have to go on offense. you have to have strong affirmative messaging to make sure things stick in the mind of voters. you can t count on the idea that voters hear conviction and walk away. you have to help them understand why this is so extraordinary. why what he defense wrong and why he s too dangerous to be in the white house. to that point about the difficulty in making things stick to trump. we live in a world where it seems like everyone s attention span is a few fleeting moments. so it s not just there s a conviction. conviction happened at the end of may. here we are the first few days of june. we re still five months to the election. how do you get it to resinate to stay in the forefront of voters minds not just now but as they head into the ballot box? this is one of the ways democrats have to figure out how they re going to do their messaging strategy. i think that oftentimes they get really fractured around messaging and have a difficult time going on offense as opposed to playing defense. so part of this is to make sure that acknowledging donald trump s conviction is a regular feature in the way that democrats are talking about him. and not just joe biden. joe biden as a messenger has a particular role i think to explain to the country what he s going to do over the next four years. but democrats need an army of surrogates who are out there making an affirmative case. going on offense. going on attack against donald trump. making sure the countriens understands. and that he s a been convicted of sexual assault and that he s been convicted for, you know, the things he did with the trump org and reminding people of january 6th. it is really, this is going to be a choice about who is the the lesser of two evils and you have to have voters understand trump is the greater of evils. liable of sexual abuse, defamation and massive fraud. and then convicted felon who is openly hell bent on revenge. that s what voters have to consider. sarah longwell. thank you for being on this morning. coming up, new reporting on how closely europe is watching the upcoming u.s. election. we ll be right back. l be right. i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein! those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. -ugh. -here, i ll take that. woo hoo! ensure max protein, 30 grams protein, 1 gram sugar, 25 vitamins and minerals. and a new fiber blend with a prebiotic. 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( ) start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. november s presidential election has implications well beyond our country s borders. in a new piece entitled what europe fears details how european leaders and nato are preparing for the potential reelection of donald trump and joining us now the author of that piece staff writer at the atlantic mckay coppins. tell us what these leaders are saying. i was struck by two things. they re watching the u.s. election very closely. the state secretary in germany told me that in a year when billions of people around the world will have the opportunity to vote the one election everyone in europe cares about and is paying attention to is the american presidential election. the other thing that struck me is almost every official i spoke to believed that donald trump was going to win again. and they say that with a sense of dread in some cases bordering on panic. the word that i heard most often in these interviews was existential. if donald trump comes back, we made it through the first trump term. and it took a toll on the transatlantic relationship. but they made it through. they said if he comes back given what he s been saying about nato, given what he s been saying about russia, the war in ukraine, they re really afraid that it will be the end of nato and the beginning of a new stage of russian aggression that europe frankly isn t prepared for without america s support. so mckay, let s dive into that more. there s been from president macron of france this effort to make europe less dependent on the u.s. in terms of our military and financial strength. what other steps are he and his fellow european leaders taking to try to if you will trump proof what they re doing right now ahead of his possible return? yeah, there have been a number of efforts recently proposed. one of them as you mentioned is, you know, developing defense autonomy in europe in a way that would potentially channel funds away from nato which really does rely on america and toward the european defense alliance. there s been talk of taking the responsibility for arming ukraine, literal logistical responsibility out of america s hands and putting that in nato s hands because they don t know if a future trump administration would abandon the war or not. really the biggest change has been that a lot of european allies are spending a lot more now on their own defense. and this is one thing that, you know, trump takes credit for and i have to say a lot of the european officials i spoke to grudgingly gave him some credit for. they said trump by kind of being so vociferous about this issue that european allies aren t spending enough on defense has sort of bullied a lot of these countries into spending more, but it s come at a cost. and that cost is that these european countries while they are now spending more on collective defense, contributing more to nato, also don t trust america as a long term ally the way they have for the last 75 years. when america becomes an unpredictable power or a transactional power, that changes the entire global order in ways that i don t think we can predict right now. sure does. and we heard back in i think it was 2018, 2019 angela merkel saying we can no longer depend on the united states basically with trump because he s so erratic. we ll have to defend ourselves. it s something macron said as well. if donald trump s making them spend more money on defense because they re spending more money on defense because they know they can t count on the united states in their minds if donald trump is president of the united states. mckay writes this also, that almost every official i spoke with believed that trump is going to win. i hear that an awful lot from europe and i hear from across the world. i think claire, we should probably tell our friends not to bet too many euros or pounds on that fact because what you see on tv may not be what ends up happening at the voting booths for swing voters in wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania. yeah, those three states particularly where really biden has never been more than a point or two behind and in polls has been ahead. those three states are incredibly important. mckay, i wanted to ask you about what s going on in europe domestically in terms of their politics. we have seen in the united states populism and anti- immigration that has really roiled our politics here. what is happening in that front in europe? it looks from a distance that they re having some of the same issues internally within the conservative parties there. the antiimmigration, the populism. is that something that europe is also worried about? oh, no question. the fear of trump s return in europe is of a piece with the fear of a broader rise of right wing populism and nationalism. we ve seen it in the uk. italy. in germany the afd party. the far right party. there was one recent poll that found 25% of germans now identify with that party. and that s a pretty extreme party. so there s no question that throughout western democracies and really in europe especially we have seen a lot of the same forces that contributed to trump s rise. in some ways the europeans understand trump through that prism. they re saying, you know, we get it, we have our own issues here. if some of our allies have elected leaders like donald trump. it s different when it happens in america. america is not only the lynch pin of the nato alliance. it is in a lot of ways seen as kind of the big brother. european countries rely on america for security, they rely on it for leadership. they rely on america to set an example to the world for what a well functioning western democracy should look like. a lot of the anxiety about this election in europe stems from the fact that they re seeing this chaos in american democracy and wondering if the city on a hill can still be looked to as an example. and that causes a lot of alarm among our friends in europe. the new piece is online now for the atlantic. staff writer mckay coppins, thank you for writing the piece and being on the show this morning. next, former capitol police officer harry dunn will be here to talk about why he is starting a new pac to support candidates running against pro- trump republicans. trump republicans. slowing my cancer from growing and living longer are two things i want from my metastatic breast cancer treatment. and with kisqali, i can have both. kisqali is a pill that when taken with an aromatase inhibitor helps delay cancer from growing and has been proven to help people live significantly longer across three separate clinical trials. so, i have the confidence to live my life. kisqali can cause lung problems or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to death. it can cause serious skin reactions, liver problems, and low white blood cell counts that may result in severe infections. avoid grapefruit during treatment. tell 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you leave it all on the field. i m harry dunn and on january 6th the good guys won. they fellow officers and i fought as a team. we had each other s back. and we didn t do it for one person or one president. we did it for our country. to make sure everyone s vote counted. that s what democracy is. that no one person s voice is greater than another. when i ran for congress, hundreds of thousands of regular people stood with me and we broke records in fundraising. but our system still allows the wealthiest americans and their corrupt super pacs to support insurrectionsists and drown out our voices. our team has got to change that. we need to support candidates committed to getting money out of politics and defending our democracy from donald trump and maga extremists. nobody said it would be easy, but for our country, fur our team, we can t stop now. and former u.s. capitol police officer harry dunn joins us now. he s the author of the recent book standing my ground. thanks for being with us again this morning. you ran for congress in the state of maryland. fell a little short l but did have some money leftover from that campaign. tell us more about what you plan to do with it. thanks for having me on. always good to be on with you all. we did fall short, but the reason why i ran was to do everything i can to continue to fight for democracy. to fight to preserve our constitution. and to fight to stop maga extremists. at the very top of the ticket, donald trump. we did raise millions of dollars in a very short period of time and what that told me is that a lot of people across the country that message of our democracy, the threat of losing it. the threat of this being our potential last free and fair election resinates with a lot of people. it s at the top of peoples minds. what we ll do is continue to use that momentum to continue to go across the country. up and down the ballot. and elect democrats and stop maga republicans. also fight to continue to get big corporate money out of politics. and support those candidates that really want to do that. so harry, when you re out there, when you re out there running for congress and meeting a lot of people and talking to a lot of people. that aspect that you just mentioned the threat to democracy. when you would talk to people about the threat to democracy, how many of the people you spoke to thought it was like real? that it could happen? as opposed to no, it worries a lot of people. it worries a lot of people. because like i say, a lot of the issues that we talk about. common sense gun reform, lowering inflation. all of those things as important as they are, if we have a dictator in the white house, a dictator over democracy, what is the purpose? those issues really don t matter because the dictator gets what he wants. everybody is definitely worried. even people that voted against me tell me they are worried about our democracy. so i think it is very front and center with a lot of people. being out here on the campaign trail for president biden i m in pennsylvania right now, one of the things people are definitely worried about. it resinates with people and as people talked about, he s talking about retribution and imprisoning his political opponents. and people are really worried about that. next, actor bill pullman on his new life time movie that was ripped from the headlines as he plays alex murdaugh who was found guilty of murdering his wife and son. morning joe weekends will be right back. right back. of finding psoriasis can t filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it s like the feeling of finding you re so ready for your close-up. or finding you don t have to hide your skin just your background. once-daily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don t take if you re 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without surgery. say goodbye to searching online. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today. dad is a legend. and his legendary moves might be passed down to you. ancestrydna can show you which traits were inherited, where they came from, and who he shares them with. but get movin , this sale is only for a limited time. this is alex murdaugh. alex was a loving father to paul. and the loving husband of maggie. alex murdaugh is innocent of all these crimes. a lifetime original movie. i had the embarrassment of bouncing a check. don t worry. we re making plenty of money. ripped from the headlines. you don t have a problem? not at all. based on a true story. how are we going to explain this? i ll think of something. tell me what you ve been keeping from me. i have never kept anything from you. look at the lifetime original murdaugh murders. the movie the two part miniseries follows the down fall of the murdaugh family. the heart of the family s demise alex murdaugh. once a successful lawyer from a team with a rich history in south carolina, his trial made headlines last year when he was convicted of murdering his wife and his son and stealing millions from his legal clients while blaming an addiction to painkillers for his crimes. join us now, bill pull nba who plays alex murdaugh. good to see you. you re kind of like i was with this trial which i didn t really know a ton about it and then i tuned in late and kind of couldn t get enough of it. so when you first heard about this role what were your impressions of this guy? yeah, i realized everybody else in the world in america knew about it. i think i, you know, i didn t know if i was going to do it. kind of had to be a fast decision. but my first thing was i don t know if i want. i don t know anything about it. then you start watching something and they ve got body cam and dash cam and of course the courtroom scene. so much there. and then i realized but as i first started into it i was nauseous. i was nauseated. i thought i can t do this part. then it tripped over into i m excited to do this part. that s what i was going to ask you at some point as an actor as repulsive as the man is there s something about getting into the character and playing it that s rich for you professionally, i think. yes, yes. really you re going to enter into you ve got to put on armor about your morality and everything else and you become, you know, a jedi knight of denial which we have a few of those these days. we do. seems to be going around. i remember talking to a friend connie who said yeah, that murdaugh guy it s like old satan looked at him and went whoa, dude. like you re bad. how did you prepare for the role? not just someone who satan would say that about but someone who is so timely. who is alive. who their developments in the case as we speak. how much did you study him? how do you decide on your performance? there s a lot to look at. you can go lateral, long time. researching and looking. i had to get moving pretty quick because production thing was so fast. i think there s certain amount of things you can make yourself similar to and then because there s other things you re just doing your own interpretation. so you re trying to, you know, channel those aspects as they would occur to you rather than just mimicking him. it was also really heard because he lost a lot of weight and there were those issues and i had to go with my weight and we don t have a lot of time to shoot this movie. you capture him well. let s take a look at another clip where alex confronts his son paul about the boating accident that killed his friend. besides a dead girl and our financial ruin. stop. i am not finished. talk to me. talk to me. she was my friend. huh? i didn t mean for it to happen. i didn t mean to hurt anyone. the hurt you cause that night hasn t even yet been felt. i m ashamed. and embarrassed of you. get out of my sight. in addition to having to capture the darkness of the man you have to capture a southern accent too, bill. if you get it wrong people will let you know. and there s a lot of different accents. south carolina, but even the low country they call it. there s a lot of different accents. you can always go check it out. tough scene. it s a tough scene. oh my god. they would let for years and years i did of pulling it off. could see him just on the stand his friends saying to say i had no idea but i do know he did it. they know he was capable of it and all caught up to him. both installments are streaming now on amazon prime video, as well as on my lifetime.com. bill pullman, great to have you with us this morning. great to be here. we ll get you back into the new york city theater. putting out a call to directors. this man. don t go away. we have a second hour of morning joe on this sunday morning. coming up right after the break. after the break. chevy trucks advanced camera 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(fisher investments) we have a transparent fee, structured so we do better when you do better. at fisher investments, we re clearly different. welcome back to morning joe weekend. it is now 7:00 a.m. this sunday morning. here s more of the stories we covered this week. writing about president biden s visit to normandy this week in your latest column for the washington post , with some reflections on history, not just the invasion in normandy on d-day 80 years ago but where america was on the precipice of world war ii in terms of the division we saw in this country, not unlike what we are seeing here now. we look back at world war ii and the d-day invasion and we see this incredible national unity. everyone was polling in the same direction in this great struggle that engulfed the entire world and american society was transformed and everyone had to pitch in and there was national purpose and national unity and we forget that in the years before the war, our country arguably was as divided as it is now. it was divided over a number of things. one way it was divided was racially segregated. that continued even during the war. the units that went ashore at d- day were all white and one all- black unit that morning. of course, once they got on the beaches, they were, there was no color and i write about one soldier, a medic in the one black battalion that landed that morning. there were others who came later. he was wounded as he landed with german shrapnel, pretty serious wounds but he was well enough to set up a medical aid station on the beach and he stood there and he treated the wounded four 30 hours before he collapsed and had to be taken to a hospital ship. he survived the war, came home to a racially divided nation and was a second-class citizen until the civil rights movement triumphed and he died in 2005. it was just this week awarded posthumously the second highest honor in the army. that wasn t the only division. there were bitter divisions about whether the united states should get involved in the war. isolationism, you think it is something no, isolationism was a major strain in our politics. there were bitter divisions over franklin d roosevelt s new deal policies, which were being described as totalitarianism and communism and socialism. the rhetoric we hear now, we have heard before. the difference is there cannot be another world war ii unite us. we can t have another one of those after hiroshima and nagasaki. we simply cannot have a world war like world war ii. so, we are going to have to find a different way to get past these divisions that beset us now. we have a barely functional political system but that is what we ve got and we are going to have to find some way to make it work so that we can, we can continue because there can t be another d-day like there one, the one there was 80 years ago. as you point out in the piece, america first, the term we hear from donald trump and his supporters, coined in the years leading up to one or two. i m so glad you are pointing to the heroism of so many black men who helped to liberate the beaches and treat the wounded on d-day. the military was desegregated by president truman three years after the end of world war ii largely because of the heroism we saw. president biden will meet with president volodymyr zelenskyy a short time from now before traveling back to normandy. meanwhile, the war in gaza rages on. the leader of hamas says he will only agree to the latest cease-fire proposal if israel commits to permanently ending the war in gaza. the statement made in response to the three phase plan president biden publicly until last week. under the proposal, phase two would be an end to the war. that is a sticking point for israel. far right drivers of israel s government say the conflict can only end once hamas is eradicated. dozens of people, meanwhile, including children, were killed in an israeli airstrike at a united nations school in gaza. it happened overnight thursday. the israeli military says it was targeting a hamas compound embedded in the school. the idf claims about 30 terrorists were using the classrooms at the base. the strike, however, drawing international criticism as gaza health officials say 40 people were killed. israel so far has only released the names of 9 terrorists it says died in the attack. meanwhile, the united states says it will wait and see what information israel releases about the strike before considering any action. the state department says it expects the idf to be fully transparent. this comes as the washington post reports a u.s. made bomb was used in the strike at that school. president biden addressed israel s war with hamas during an interview with abc news yesterday in normandy. the president says he believes pre-minister benjamin netanyahu has acknowledged concerns from the white house pointing to the way israel adjusted its strategy in russia. is benjamin netanyahu listening to you ? i think he s listening to me. they were going to go into rafah fullbore, invade all of rafah can go into the city, take it out, move with full force. they haven t done that. what they have done is they have agreed to a significant agreement that if, in fact, i must accept it, look, it is being backed by egypt, being backed by the saudis, being backed by almost of the home arab world. we will see. this is a very difficult time. richard hoss, he s right about who s backing it, everyone except the two parties involved in the war to have this cease-fire come about and perhaps an end to the war. hamas says it will not agree to the terms. israel says it will not agree to anything that does not include eradicating hamas as israel puts it. where does that leave us ? it was exactly a week ago today president biden went out and announced this three phase plan and the wait was represented a week ago that it was sent to the israel s plan and the idea was to get hamas to sign on. israel backed away from it, if they ever signed onto it to begin with. hamas, as you saw, has now said it won t accept a temporary cease-fire, which is phase one of the plan. it seems to have been stillborn. what we are looking at is the other part of the news this morning. you are going to have continued israeli military operations, inevitably, no matter how careful israel is, because of co-location of hamas with civilians, you will see this kind of stories you have for people, innocent people are going to be killed, along with hamas militants. my guess is we will see this for some time. this will go on, the israeli national security advisor said military operations will continue through the end of the year. i don t see any reason to doubt that. i think the real question is whether we see an escalation of fighting as things dial down somewhat in gaza in the north between israel and hezbollah. that has been the most recent news out of israel. the idea that we are on a precipice of peace somehow, actually, the opposite is more the reality. i hate to be so depressing this morning but i think we are looking at open ended but low level war in gaza with the danger of escalation in the north in southern lebanon. coming up, ed luce of the financial times, will tell us his new piece, titled biden respects the law, trump does not and what that could mean for the election. have you always had trouble losing weight and keeping it off? 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[ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg s moving company uses t-mobile. so she scaled down her fleet to save money. and don s paying so much for at&t, he s been waiting to update his equipment! there s a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don t have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. joining us now for more u.s. national editor of the fund opens ed luce . your new piece is entitled what hunter biden tells about america. in it, you write the trump biden cases is a tale of two parties. biden could have spared his son his judicial ordeal by pardoning him, a tool that trump used for political associates who were jailed. if the president is breaking the system, he has a funny way of showing it. hunter biden may or may not merit jail time. ditto for trump in his hush money case. but these are mere sideshows. one of america s potential presidents respects the rule of law. the other does not. everything else pales in comparison. i think that is why wall street journal, article does when it was so frustrating because of the difference between these two candidates. the moral equivalence. we talked about you can look at that article versus donald trump for getting up world war ii existed, forgetting barack obama is not still president and then also you could just do, again, the false moral equivocation between january the sixth, the riot, trump s role in that and joe biden forgiving student loan debt. we get all these false comparisons. i ve got to say one of the most maddening has been donald trump stealing nuclear secrets versus hunter biden and whatever republicans decide at the time is a great risk to america s national security because of what hunter biden did. the key point here is america s system is working, it is intact. both donald trump last week and hunter biden in wilmington for the next couple of weeks are receiving trial by jury, due process, they will have the right of appeal. i ve no idea whether hunter biden will be convicted or acquitted but i do know that he has two cases against him. the second of which, the tax case starts on september the fifth at the beginning of the general election in california. biden could at any point to stop this from happening. he s not, he s not interfering. there is no rigging coming from this president. where it is coming from is the supreme court. we will get them later this month, presumably later this month. they might prevaricate even longer. later this month, finally coming down with their ruling on what should have been an open and shut case about whether the resident has immunity for whatever he does in office, thereby ensuring trump will not be held accountable for january 6th in court before november the fifth. that is the real story going on here. the trial is in wilmington. i have no great insight to what is going to happen there but the trial in wilmington is the rule of law taking its normal course, as was the case in new york last week. what is happening in the supreme court is judicial interference in the political process. so, ed, you have the gift of being able to look at america and american politics from the distance created by your birth. you are not from here. you weren t born here. so, when you look at it and you write about it, as you did today, and you mentioned the supreme court slowing things down, making it almost impossible for a trial in the january 6th or the papers kept at mar-a-lago, a trial for most things are happening prior to election and hunter biden on trial today in wilmington, what is your sense of what would happen to the system, and the rule of law if hunter biden is acquitted and what is your sense of what other countries, other nations think and view this when they look at what is happening in america? that is a great question. it is a remarkable moment that we are having. the first conviction of a former president and the first trial of a child of a sitting president happening in the space of a few days of each other. i have no doubt if hunter biden is convicted, there is not going to be an uproar on the democratic side, there isn t going to be accusations of bigoted justice, even though the judge is trump appointed, there s no reason to believe that judge is a hatchet job kind of charge. if, however, hunter biden is acquitted, all conspiratorial hell will break loose. you mentioned the other trump trial that isn t going to happen, the one in florida, the federal trial that judge aileen canon is in charge of. she is finding extraordinary time delaying tactics, once that nobody had ever thought of. the latest is whether the special prosecutor, smith, was unconstitutionally appointed and she s going to hear arguments about that. she is finding any and every excuse, including invented ones not to hear this case. it is an extraordinary example of justice delayed being justice denied. and, i think that is what foreigners are kind of gob smacked by when they watch this. it is, you bring up judge aileen canon in florida on the documents case, which is really one of the most serious cases against donald trump and resounding as well, given all the documents were hidden at mar-a-lago and he tried to hide them again as the government was trying to get them back. and, the, it is frustrating to see what is happening. it is also the judge that we got, the judge that is, in this case, the judge that was given this case. that is the way it goes. you will not hear, unlike on fox news, that this is a weapon based justice department. you will not hear, unlike on fox news, that somehow joe biden is up to this or donald trump is up to this and somehow he s polling the strings here. you will not hear that here because this is the judge we got and that is the way it goes with the rule of law. we have lots more to get to this hour. morning joe weekend continues after a short break. break. the only migraine medication that 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will buy you a werewolf. the judge announced next month, steve bannon will start serving his time in prison. in prison? he looks like a guy who just got out of prison. steve bannon goes to prison on july 1st. it s too bad we will all miss out on something that summer beach body. former trump advisor steve bannon has been ordered to report to prison next month. the judge ruled yesterday steve bannon must begin his four month sentence on july 1st. a stay on bearman s sentence was lifted after his appeal in the case was denied. as nbc news reports, steve bannon could still appeal the ruling. he said yesterday his team plans to appeal all the way to the supreme court. we are going to go all the way to the supreme court if we have to. i want to say something specific about the justice department. merrick garland, lisa monaco, the entire justice department, they are not going to shut up trump, they are not going to shut up navarro, they are not going to shut up brandon and they are not going to shut up maga. steve bannon was found guilty in judge aileen canon force of defining subpoenas from the january 6th select committee. let s bring in nbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. this is always been, we will hear from president trump s on this interesting moment, as a personal attack, as president biden ordering his opponents to jail, except, when you don t answer a subpoena, no matter who you are in our society, just like if you cook the books at your organization to pay off an adult film star to stay quiet before the presidential election, there are consequences. there are indeed consequences. there is some connective tissue between this and the other case you mentioned, the recent conviction of former president trump. that can connective tissue is robert castillo, steve bannon s attorney and the attorney on whose advice he says he relied in ignoring that congressional subpoena. steve bannon wanted to argue, this was the crux of his appeal, that he was entitled to reasonably rely on bob castillo s advice that he should blow off the subpoena because trump was going to invoke executive privilege. the only problem with that is twofold. one, he was repeatedly advised by trump campaign lawyers that is not, in fact, what the former president intended to do for steve bannon, in part because steve bannon had been out of government for three years. the other problem is there is a 1961 case by the d.c. circuit this is where contempt charges are concerned, it is no defense to say i relied on the advice of counsel. it was that decision that a recent d.c. circuit panel reaffirmed and it is on that basis that yesterday, judge carl nichols of the d.c. district court said, you know, sir, vista longer presents substantial questions of law. i m going to the the state of your sentence and you need to report by july 1st. will come as no surprise to anyone that donald trump took to social media to really get this, calling it, a total and complete american tragedy that the duke joe biden department of justice is it is interesting. steve bannon has said he will appeal again and looking to push off the july 1st report date. tell us what mechanism that would be. is there a chance of success? or, is he going to go in july 1st ? steve bannon does not officially work for the trump campaign. he is an informal advisor and a large maga voice. if he goes in july 1st, he will be silenced for the stretch run of the collection. that is likely true when i think it is likely, if not highly probable he will go in july 1st. let s talk about his mechanisms for appeal. he can ask for a rehearing in the d.c. circuit. he has and june 24th to make that request. in all likelihood, they are not going to respond to that request before his july 1st reporting date. he can also file a petition with the supreme court but the deadline for him doing so comes after his july 1st date. either of those options, they could reimpose a state of his sentence. and i believe it is likely they are going to? i don t. i think steve bannon will, in all probability, serve that four month sentence and be silenced in the lead up to the election. that is particularly important because steve bannon was a huge voice for maga in the lead up to, and more importantly, after the 2020 election. there is still a phone call between donald trump and steve bannon on january 6th that no one has quite explained. up next, melinda french gates announces major donations for gender equality. our conversation with one of the recipients is straight ahead. ight ahead. curry from deep. that s caaaaaaaaash. i prefer the old intro! this is much better! i don t think so! steph, one more thing. the team owner gets five minutes a game. cash bros? woo! i like it. i ll break it to klay. cashback like a pro with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? chase, make more of what s yours. here s to getting better with age. here s to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, 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( ) start to get yourself back, with bimzelx. ask your dermatologist about bimzelx today. philanthropist melinda french gates has announced she will be donating $1 million over the next two years to support women s rights. in a guest essay for the new york times , french gates writes, in nearly 20 years as an advocate for women and girls, i ve learned that there will always be people who say it is not the right time to talk about gender equality . it is frustrating and shortsighted. decades of research on economics, well-being, and governance make it clear that investing in women and girls benefits everyone. one of the recipients of the great was the american institute for boys and men. joining us now is that organizations president, richard reeves. also with us, repressor of marketing at the nyu stern school of business, scott galloway. good to have you both. richard, i will toss to you first and ask why this grant makes sense overall for women s rights. well, i think what melinda french gates has realized is that a world of floundering men is difficult to be a will to flourishing women. we do have to rise together. and, the young men and investing in education and mental health is going to be good for women. men and women will be raising children together. there s evidence that many young men are struggling in education and mental health, especially young men and men of color above all. i think it is a recognition that the gender equality movement has to expand to include boys and men as well. coming from figure with such prominence of melinda french gates was such a strong track record of leadership, i think it sends a strong signal that we do need to include boys and men in this conversation. to your point, scott galloway, you have been a great force on this on the state of young men in america right now. explain the challenges. equality doesn t necessarily mean that each side is the same. men and women have differences. what is happening to young men is equally, potentially as disturbing. could be with you and congratulations to my friend richard reeves. this is a great american story. unfortunately, young men are paying for the advantage that me and my father received. so, there is a lack of empathy. richard turned me onto this great quote, empathy is not a zero-sum game, civil rights didn t hurt white people. to richard s point, what he s always said he s who wants more economically and emotionally viable young men? women. women, of the tract, as they are doing, especially younger men, they are more prone to nationalist content, they are more prone to misogynistic content. you know, richard, it is so fascinating. maybe five years ago, when people like scott galloway three years ago were talking about this and a lot of people through their hands up, my god, how dare you talk about boys when men have been dominant through, you know, for thousands and thousands of years. you heard those complaints. on a very personal level but so much anecdotal evidence that i suspect a lot of people here in this are young women talking to mika and me going where are the men to date, where are the men that understand the basics? and, there s this horrible choice. on one side, you do have again, all anecdotal but you have, well, i m not going to wander into that minefield what i was about to say. let s just say younger women are understanding the costs of the mail crisis right now. they are living the cost. they are living the cost of it. what is interesting, these stories you say anecdotal but it is in the evidence, it is in the data. there is a big gender gap in college today than there was in the 70s. the biggest rise in suicide rates, tragically, has been among young men. we are losing 40,000 men a year to suicide. what i discovered is, among parents if you have a boy in the k-12 education system, you kind of get this immediately. if you have a doctor in the dating market, you kind of get this immediately too. and, realizing you just can t separate these things out and it is not a betrayal of the ideals of gender equality to start dealing with issues of boys and young men. it is the application of the ideals of gender equality. it is not a zero-sum game. i think that penny is dropping. the people are realizing we cannot neglect the problems of boys and men if we want a world that is better for all of us. i was particularly interested with what ms. gates has done. i salute her for it in terms of investing also in young boys and men and i think you or richard mentioned young boys and men of color. many of us in any study has shown disproportionately are raised by single mothers. i was one of them. to help those young boys and men that are buttressed by programs like yours, and to develop them, also helps the single mothers who are trying to balance life. talk about the challenge of that and how this could be helpful. reverend, you and i said that, we were raised by superheroes. my mother was an immigrant who lived and died a secretary, raced me on her own. what the research shows is the single point of failure, if you were to reverse engineer and why men are struggling is when they lose a male role model. the second most single-parent household, which is latin for a woman heading a household alone, just behind sweden. as richard s work has pointed out, the vast majority of people in primary school education are women. a boy is twice as likely to be suspended for the same behavior in school and five times as likely if he is black boy. would you have is an entire cohort of men being raised without male influence. what is equally interesting is girls have similar outcomes in single-parent households, same college attendance, same rates of self-harm. what richards research has shown is that while boys are physically stronger, they are mentally and emotionally weaker and we need to knowledge that. we need a group of thriving gunmen. how many times have we heard people say i know it time of young single women who are great and i can t find men for them. you can t find men for them, just not any man they want. we need to level up young people in general, specifically young men. coming up, historian doris kearns goodwin on how looking at america through a historical lens can help make sense of the issues facing our country today. try today. 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presidential historian, doris kearns goodwin. so good to have you with us. what a time. let s start with president biden making some of his most candid comments yet about former president trump s criminal conviction at a fundraiser in connecticut last night. the president called trump a convicted felon who stopped after the 2020 election. the president addressed the attacks trump and his allies have lobbed at the justice system. biden s of the former president, wants you to believe it is already. nothing could be further from the truth. it is reckless and dangerous for anyone to say it is rigged just because they don t like the outcome. biden added, the justice system is a core of american democracy and we should never allow anyone to tear it down. biden continued, here is what is becoming clearer and clearer every day. the threat trump poses in his second term would be greater than his first. this isn t the same trump that got elected in 2016. biden said, he is worse. doris, this is joe biden using the term convicted felon, a private fundraiser in connecticut, as john has been telling us, this is something we may hear more of from the biden campaign. they now officially are running against a man convicted of 34 felonies. how do you think that figures into the race ? every event affects the next event and i was going to think this project will affect how the conventions will happen. president trump has put out is we are a backward country, we are a country that is corrupt, we are a country that looks like a third world country and all of our systems are corrupt. i just don t think the american people are going to feel that way. one of the things i look at when i look at history is the backward look and the negative look as not working campaigns. i think biden understands that. when dragon was running against carter, carter talked about the malaise of the people, that it was a crisis of confidence in the people and we can comes along and says it s not the people, it s leadership that has failed and i am here to provide the leadership. the same thing happened when hoover talked about there s not much he could do about the depression because the government would weaken the people and he was going to hope we were getting through it somehow around the corner prosperity would come and fdr says it s not the people that is the problem, it is your leadership and i m going to do action. biden is on a good stand, in a certain sense, to talk about the rule of law, to talk about the country being a country that is not corrupt and to make that a contrast. i think this is going to be something, we don t know how. the debate could change everything, the conventions could change everything, events could change everything but right now, this will affect the tone of the campaign. this darkness, this dim view of the country presented by donald trump, this american carnage as he called it in his inauguration address way back. i guess it resonates with his base, it resonates with some people but the point you re making is you have to win more than your base to win an election. perhaps an optimistic message is the way to go for president biden. i think about the fact that when you are nominated, and he s about to be, you have to expand your base. i think back to 1964 in the republican convention and barry goldwater. what happens there is governor rockefeller, new york governor rockefeller, popular person in the party is trying to argue for a different platform, a civil rights platform. he gets shouted down and it all on television and it looks like the party has narrowed itself. they said in many ways, goldwater lost the election at that convention. when you do something like canceling larry hogan out, you need him, you need him in the senate and you are narrowing your party by saying you can t even say this verdict should be followed because it is a verdict that it is the rule of law. it hadn t even begun yet, he had said it before, it was a natural thing to say about our system. we have the moment you describe just from 1964. let s take a look. i would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. let me remind you also that moderation and the pursuit of justice is no virtue. doris, 1964 is really instructive. i will also say, obviously, fdr, a sense of optimism, we have nothing to fear but fear itself. the band play in happy days are here again. ronald reagan, it s morning in america. i truly believe america s greatest days lie ahead. it is always the optimism that rules the day. still ahead, legendary e street band guitarist steve van zandt on his remarkable life and career in music and show business. business. keep those expectations with reliable ground shipping. thanks brandon. with usps ground advantage®. it s hard to run a business on your own. make it easier on yourself. with shopify, you can have your inventory, payments, and customers in sync across all the places you sell. start your journey with a free trial today. it s time to feed the dogs real food, not highly processed pellets. the farmer s dog is fresh food made with whole meat and veggies. it s not dry food. it s not wet food. it s just real food. it s an idea whose time has come. a slow network is no network for business. that s why more choose comcast business. and now, we re introducing ultimate speed for business our fastest plans yet. we re up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds. at no additional cost. it s ultimate speed for ultimate business. don t miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today! it was a classic stephen production. yet one a man loves a woman. when i man loves a woman. it was way out of there. i did a good job and it worked. we were fans. stephen got married and bruce was the best man. it was the wedding band from the godfather. i heard it was really great. i don t remember a thing but that s what i heard. that was a look at the new documentary titled steve van zandt, disciple. the film follows the life of the musician and actor from his humble beginnings in new jersey to the apex of his one-of-a- kind career, performing along bruce pristine and james gandolfini in the sopranos. tuning is now, stevie van zandt, also the films director. i can t wait to see this. tell us why now, why did you decide this was the moment? he chased me for how long ? a long time, 2006 and years and years of trying to get, let me do this film. i m not comfortable being the center of attention. that is just a fact. i didn t even want to be in it at first. he s not in the early cut. you have to be in the movie. it would be hard to do without him in it. there s a lot of footage out there. anyway, they worked on it for two years before i agreed to be in it. i think, look, and and, we talked about what is the purpose of this thing and it is about the work. getting the work exposed as much as we can because, you know, that is one of the things i ve always had trouble balancing that art and commerce thing. can you explain how hard is it to explain the coordination of a band? you are in a big and, in a group of guys on stage in the synchronization of the shows always amaze me, you know what someone is going to do before they do it and you do your thing. well, we really have a long time. let s face it. that helps. a bit of esp goes on after a while. in the beginning, we had to be really good before we even got in the business. we had to be good life. that really, we had very high standards, growing up in the 60s. we had to compare ourselves to the beatles and the rolling stones and the who, very high standards. a lot of history, i think, bill got into it in the film. tell us exactly that. what are some of the things we will see, people who know stevie van zandt from the states or the screen, what are they going to see, what are they going to learn from this film ? telling them the whole breath and scope of the work and career and love of rock n roll is interesting. i think people may know him from television, from his acting, or they may know him for his music but they don t know he had the first branded satellite radio station, the first streaming television show. was a producer and writer and director. they may not know that the way, the things he does for education and they may not know his record label. there s so much to stevie van zandt beyond that music and we also get to expose the story of his amazing music, his friendship with bruce, his beautiful love story with his wife. he sees all thing. and then south africa. people may not know that silvio dante helped free nelson mandela and end apartheid. it is a pretty good resume. did you ever think from watertown, massachusetts to where you are today, the envelope you had to shoot through in terms of fate and lack is incredibly small. how often do you think about that ? about every hour. no doubt, we are the luckiest generation ever and i am the luckiest guy in the luckiest generation. i m so grateful, first of all that somebody would have an interest in making a movie about me. that is incredible already. i am honored that bill and the guys really spent their time doing that. destiny plays a role. if my mother hadn t remarried, my father adopted me and brought me from boston to new jersey, you know, i would have never gotten into the new jersey scene. if david chase hadn t happened to be clicking around, he wouldn t see me in dr. rascals and i want to get that guy on my new tv show the sopranos. there s a lot of detail in my book and i think bill, bill was, the conversations we had, i haven t seen the film myself at ceramic just to see what happens. you haven t seen it ? that is all the time we have this weekend. we will see you tomorrow at 6:00 a.m. eastern for more morning joe. until then, enjoy the rest of your sunday. your sunday. good morning. it s sunday, june 9. i m alicia menendez. with michael steele and symone sanders townsend. we are following president biden on his final day in france and the appearance of his message
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