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>> which i never understood but make your case first. i understood your case i don't understand the significance. >> they wanted to do the transaction in cash. which of course is ab such. it was a corporate transaction you can't do it in cash. so trying to attribute those words to him was like forcing an in ten tags of what is a case carefully analyzed on people. idea of a cash transaction here is absurd. the idea of cash is president wanted a memorialization of it wasn't afraid of it. that's important. that's important to mental state. did he have intent to deserve. which he didn't. president...

The president and what hope hicks said from the campaign he knew nothing about this until after the fact. not true ruddy we know it from the tape. >> not true. the tape didn't argue it. >> why did he know the dollar amount? >> cohen could have told him two hours before. you think they have one conversation in two years? >> i don't know. but when i hear it it's not new information. >> here's another thing that he did. when trump said, check, and everybody greece he said check at the end, he cut it off a bankruptly. who knows what else was discussed then? he has no doubt the president was very s...

Father? >> well, i don't know. but what i'm saying is that can corroborate or not corroborate michael cohen's statement. >> maybe, maybe not. >> so if that number -- well, if the numbers were to his father. >> well, then yes. >> and you have cohen also timing it, that would be a corroboration. so i'm saying there are ways to do that. >> all right. so let's bounce it to ross. what do you make of this at the outset? do you think this would be something if this is all true, and cohen goes in and this is what he tells mueller, how big a deal do you think its? >> look, i can understand rudy giulian...

But he goes into the meeting, and he says according to the reporting there were other people in the room. so this is something that bob mueller should be able to figure out, roo it? >> the question isn't what happened in the room. the question is what did the president know and when did he know it. so it would have to be people in the room with the president that can corroborate cohen. >> right. >> which won't be because it didn't happen. then becomes the credibility between two or three witnesses who say one thing and cohen who says another. >> assuming they say different things. >> i'm prett...

About it. we haven't heard michael cohen talk about it. so no way for us to measure his credibility. and in terms of the phone call i would expect don junior and his dad are probably talking multiple times a day about lots of different things. so the first point is maybe cohen is telling the truth or maybe he's not telling the truth. but we are not in a position yet to be able to judge that. >> but here's how you would know, ross, if this part is true, that it was a meeting with more people than just don junior then candidate trump and cohen, now you've got something else for mueller to dig in...