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Writer and analyst for the new yorker. carolyn i was bugging you as this was playing out before we came to air. what is your perspective on the question of -- look, if the white house wanted to have full transparency they're not saying because you didn't follow this written rule in in step in this process we're not going to hand it over. they could hand over information if they wanted to. >> yeah, absolutely to be clear there is no rule. >> what is the rule on -- you have to have a formal vote on impeachment on the floor before i hand over respond to the subpoenas. >> you don't. there is nothi...

Martha raddatz asked. ten days later he says i was on the phone call to matt lee. doesn't tell us anything he thought or what he thought. definitely did not talk about any of the details that might come up in the impeachment investigation. >> i agree that matt lee is a good questioner to go to. and he's a real reporter and he asked tough questions. but i took it frankly as a recognition that pompeo knew he could not avoid this anymore after what happened with martha raddatz. but he didn't answer the main question matt asked whether he heard anything inappropriate. whether he faces members of t...

Time what he did to us in 2016. it must stop. no matter what the political consequences are. i think that is, we now have the answer, that's what it took. donald trump trying to pull the same lawless unethical, immoral thing a second time. >> and heidi, let me bring -- >> the same thing. >> let me bring heidi back into this because she's standing on capitol hill for us. heidi, i wanted to ask you how much of this, to john heilemann's point, is from a defensive posture, this daily drumbeat that congress is being made fools of, that their oversight function is being blocked by the stonewalling, ...

>> right. >> in f this ends up being whatt apparently is, this could have that effect where it becomes impossible for the democrats in the house to avoid a serious out in the open no messing around impeachment, not just mee impeachment proceedings immediately. just think how they're handling this whistleblower complaint. they are essentially saying that whistle blowers in the government, if they follow proper procedures have no expectation of protection. >> right. >> and that the president should be allowed to engage in corrupt activities at will with no oversight whatsoever and anyone who see...

Oversight function as an equal branch of government, and even if they don't wind up drawing up articles of impeachment, that they are doing something. whether that's enough to satisfy the democratic base as salena said and i think she's right, remains to be seen. that's this delicate balance now between the sort of core of the democratic caucus and the leadership including speaker pelosi who is trying to protect a majority going into a presidential election year. >> and then salena, president trump now has a couple of republican challengers for the 2020 nomination, and now several states are c...