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Kplun indicati communications between attorneys is gone. robert mueller would want to know the extent to which there were conversations with the president relating to pardon, in particular. we know in march of this year the new york times reported that the president and the president's lawyers had some interests and talked to manafort's lawyers. talked to michael flynn who is cooperating with mueller about a pardon. that opens up big constitutional questions. a, is the pardon power something that could be used to limit the scope of the mueller probe. >> is it unfettered? even if it is, what do...

Abuse question that i want to talk about. the fact that it's a presidential power doesn't mean that it's without abuse. a governor who auctions off a pardon is abusing power and there are statutes to deal with that. given that obstruction was one of the house judiciary issues in above the the clinton and nixon cases, is the abuse of the pardon power something in your view that can amount to potential obstruction? >> i think so. if you use that pardon power, which is absolute except in matters of impeachment, but if you use that pardon power in exchange for interfering with an investigation, ly...