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>> paul: well, let's put the issue of the american side on the bill, the president is a guy who shoots by an instinct, he operates by instinct, somebody who dives in briefing boats, plutonium program and what it takes -- >> of course, that's the jimmy carter strength. paul: no. i'm not saying he can't therefore achieve -- >> right. paul: outcome, all i'm saying this is something who is going to do it on his own instincts. >> i'm not so word about that as he has mike pompeo and john bolton. i couldn't think of two better people to be advising me. actually denuke it is peninsula, if he doesn't h...

From the american side on the table, bill, the president is a guy who shoots by instinct. >> right. paul: he's not somebody who dives in briefing books, he doesn't understand nuances of plutonium program. >> that's the jimmy carter strength. paul: no. i'm not saying he can't therefore achieve outcome, all i'm saying that this is somebody who is going to go in there and do it a lot on his own instincts. >> i'm not so word about that in the sense that he has mike pompeo at state and john bolton at national security. i couldn't think of two better people to be advising him. but my test is whether...

Something that's different, but i think we -- none of us should be holding our breath. the proof is in the pudding. i was there in 2008 right after they blew up the cooling tower for their plutonium program. you know, they can do these dramatic things where they show they are locking something up or blowing something up, but what you really need ware inspection and you need to be able to go anywhere. >> north korea has nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles and no longer the test sites where they come up with the weapons. are we paying too much lip service to the idea of let's dismantle some o...

Type of language that has never, ever been uttered by an american president in the modern era toward north koreans over anything? >> right. they see it as justification of their worst fears. that the whole point of the united states is to eliminate kim jong-un. they're very narcissistic in their own way. they think the whole world revolves around them. so when the president threatens them like that, they go, see? we told you so. what do they do? they accelerate their military programs. look, years of sanctions, of isolation, of threats, of ignoring them, hasn't worked at all. that has not stop...

Made the north koreans freeze the plutonium program. yes, they broke out in the beginning of the bush administration and they were confronted, we had the first breakdown with them. i think we can learn from those examples and if we cobble together an approach that's really strong on sanctions and then has a negotiating strategy where you freeze but you not only freeze but you address the regime, i like where bret was going with that. because ultimately the problem we have, even though you know i was executive director of a commission on proliferation, we don't want the north korean regime -- w...