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In the next step of the process. there's going to be a big hearing on the 4th on wednesday, and you're going to see -- we've seen signs so far that yes, they may not fully participate in the process despite the complaints of being shut out of the process. and you've also seen congressional republicans also continuing to make that process argument. they're saying, you know, during a similar hearing during the clinton process you got 19 witnesses, there's only going to be four. we need some equality in that. so they are going to continue to fight back. >> and the president has been talking this ...

Outside of the white house, it seems to me that they think that the actual process argument that they're on. the idea that this is an entire sham, the impeachment hoax as they like to say. that they're winning on the process argument. and you extrapolate from there. it seems as though they'd be disinclined to participate in any meaningful way in a house investigation unless it's a fundamentally different kind of investigation. the kind of investigation that initially called for where they would be able, the white house, be able to call the kind of witnesses they want. that's hunter biden. that...

Caldwell. and with me onset, josh letterman. we'll start with you, hans. does the white house plan to send a representative to this judiciary committee hearing? >> they're reviewing nadler's letter. they need to make a decision on whether or not they want to focus on process or substance. there's a bit of a hint from the white house that they think the process argument is cutting in their favor. in that statement we have, grisham refers to it as a i illegitimate sham process. they're looking at some of the public polling out there, some of the private polling. they're insisting they're winni...

American is this letter comes at the end of an illegitimate, sham, partisan process." that's an indication to me, chris, that the white house thinks that they're winning on the process argument, right? there have always been two tracks on this, the substance and the process. the white house has worked at pains to really try to question the process of all this. and when you look at the polling numbers, the fact that it hasn't moved all that much -- in some states, polls like in wisconsin, where the white house clearly thinks it's cutting in their favor. the question then becomes does the white ...

Side he shouldn't be removed from office for it. >> you're seeing the strategy of the republican defense, phase one process argument, comblapla about the process which is always a loser because americans don't care about a process argument. they shifted to, two, oh, it wasn't first hand, it's so far removed. >> hear say. >> third -- >> lindsey graham's new definition of whether hearsay evidence is admissible or not. that was fun for the senate judiciary chairman to hear him rewrite that. >> lasted for a bit. and then you have one of the ambassadors aides in ukraine bring up well actually i was...