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Sense. >> you raised a good point because this is the legal system, and you would incentivize this, but it's another issue as to why people pick up and leave their country in central america or mexico and say listen, nothing is happening here. for the sake of my kids, my family, myself, i'm going to go north and try my luck. that's another problem that i assume requires another solution. >> it certainly does. i think we have to address both the push factors from the sending countries. what's going on in those countries that's leading these families to leave and make that dangerous journey here...

Criminals, like president obama did at the end of his presidency. >> victoria, what do you make of the president sort of coming out and saying what he said about, first of all, the open borders stuff, the sort of nonsense, and the number is not really right or impossible to project, but what do you make of that in its centrality, what the president is doing down on the border tonight, what he's doing in the last shutdown and maybe in this next one? >> it's about the red meat, chris. in terms of going to his base, he's in a safe space, he's in a rally, and he's saying to his base, look, i haven...

First of all, the open borders stuff, the sort of nonsense, and the number is not really right or impossible to project, but what do you make of that in its centrality, what the president is doing down on the border tonight, what he's doing in the last shutdown and maybe in this next one? >> it's about the red meat, chris. in terms of going to his base, he's in a safe space, he's in a rally, and he's saying to his base, look, i haven't forgotten about you, i'm here, we're going to build the wall. these democrats who know they're trying to get in the way, but we're ultimately going to do it. bu...

Other problems we have. aid to the central american countries where a lot of these people are fleeing is another important aspect of this. secretary kelly, when he was the secretary of homeland security convened a conference in miami, a two-day conference with the secretary of state, specifically on economy and security for the central american countries to try to address the pull factors that were causing people to leave those countries. we need that, so we need a strategy, not just a wall. >> i know you agree, you and i have talked about this before, you agree on that front, more needs to be...

Secretary kelly, when he was the secretary of homeland security convened a conference in miami, a two-day conference with the secretary of state, specifically on economy and security for the central american countries to try to address the pull factors that were causing people to leave those countries. we need that, so we need a strategy, not just a wall. >> i know you agree, you and i have talked about this before, you agree on that front, more needs to be done in el salvador, guatemala and places in honduras, where people are fleeing from? >> absolutely. and i've always said that, create the...