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Of course a msnbc contributor. chuck, it's good to see you. thank you for being with us tonight. i don't know what level of importance he was scrapped to this missing document that nobody seems to know exactly what it is or where it is? >> not as much as you might expect, alex. what i think is important and you spoke about it in the introduction, is the acknowledgment by mr. trump on a recording that he understood the classification system that there were limits on what he could do post presidency and that he couldn't share information because he wasn't able any longer to declassify this infor...

Of defense beyond a reasonable doubt. and our system is designed so that we can prefer to see ten people go free rather than what instant person be convicted. the rules are designed to ensure -- or defendant. so you have to show that he, for example, did not mean, i just wanted the 11,780 votes to wish that believe i was entitled in a fair and free election. i thought i had been defrauded, and i was just asking brad raffensperger to remedy the fraud. i can imagine that the defense will sign something like that. now, it's still good evidence. it's just not all the evidence. but i think if you c...

Missing document that nobody seems to know exactly what it is or where it is? >> not as much as you might expect, alex. what i think is important and you spoke about it in the introduction, is the acknowledgment by mr. trump on a recording that he understood the classification system that there were limits on what he could do post presidency and that he couldn't share information because he wasn't able any longer to declassify this information. who would be great for the government to get the document, if it's out there floating around, they certainly wanted back for national security purposes...

So interesting, what makes it substantively different from other dribs and drabs we've gotten out of this investigation so far is this, quote, willis's office has asked both firms for information, not only about georgia, but all about other states as well. i know that for a lot of people around the country, the moment trumps get me 11,780 votes call became public the case against him in georgia seem basically open and shut. there was trump on tape -- pressure georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger to swing the state in his favor. but in the court of law, the burden of proof is high. you...

He was trying to do on a call with raffensperger, all of that gets a lot harder for them to hide behind. joining us now are former u.s. attorneys, barbara mcquade and harry litman. barbara and harry of course msnbc legal analysts. thank you for being here. harry, let me first start with your reaction to the subpoenas that we are finding out about in fulton county and how meaningful you think they are in the building of a larger case against trump vis-à-vis his efforts to steal the election. >> so i think they're very meaningful but for exactly the reason you said, that is they show that when ...