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A source telling cnn president trump urged the president of ukraine to investigate joe biden's son, and "the wall street journal" reports that happened roughly eight times in a single call, which raises serious questions about whether this president is using his authority to harm perceived political enemies. joining me to discuss now is nixon white house counsel john dean, also jack tumarchio. yak is a former principal deputy of intelligence for homeland security in the george w. bush administration. good evening, gentlemen. appreciate having both of you on. jack, you first. you say the way th...

Investigate joe biden's son and that happened eight times in a single call which raised serious questions about whether this president is using his authority to harm besieged political enemies. joining me to discuss is john dean and also jack tarmaccio. he's with homeland security in the george w. bush administration. good evening, gentlemen. appreciate having you both on. jack, you first. you say the way this whistle-blower campaign is being handled makes watergate look like kindergarten. why? >> well, what i'm seeing here, don, is already a pattern of obfuscation. you've got rudy giuliani ou...

She died. and now i look back at it and i realize one of my mom's greatest strengths, which as a kid drove me bananas, was how despite all -- despite tragedies and losses, she was -- she consciously chose to remain open and vulnerable and optimistic and believing the best in, like, everybody she met and i felt like, okay, she can do that because i'm, you know, running interference and i'm scheming and plotting and, you know, willing to do it. >> any chance that she was doing it because you were there and needed a good example? >> i don't think she thought in those terms, to be honest. can't go...

All -- despite tragedies and losses, she was -- she consciously chose to remain open and vulnerable and optimistic and believing the best in like everybody she met. and i felt like okay she can do that because i'm, you know, running interference and i'm scheming and plotting and, you know, willing to -- >> any chance she was doing it because you were there and needed a good example? >> no. i won't go that far. you know, she wasn't -- your mom i think was very parental. my mom was more -- she was, you know, an amazing creature. but it was -- >> because my mom was so shattered by the loss, not d...