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>> no, i understand that. but listen, i've listened to our legal -- we don't need to debate mueller. all i'm trying to tell you is that's behind us, and i'm glad that the democrats are focusing on this case of abuse of power. they didn't go beyond that much in the obstruction of congress and all that stuff, but what i'm saying to you is i think they've taken a more responsible, constructive approach to doing it this way, and i'm glad that they did that. and they didn't go off in other kinds of degrees. i think it gives them more credibility. but it doesn't matter because the republicans are go...

Barr and trump are disputing the facts here. what is this war on truth that we're talking about? what is this doing to our country here where the truth is on trial? >> it affects our culture, don. you know, we got young people that are going to say, i'm not going to believe that because that's not my -- my opinion says something differently. by the way, i don't mean to say the bidens weren't in ukraine. they were involved somehow in ukraine with hunter being on the board and his father and all that. but when people said ukraine was really the one to disrupt the election and not russia, and whe...

Our legal -- we don't need to debate mueller. all i'm trying to tell you is that's behind us, and i'm glad that the democrats are focusing on this case of abuse of power. they didn't go beyond that much in the obstruction of congress and all that stuff, but what i'm saying to you is i think they've taken a more responsible, constructive approach to doing it this way, and i'm glad that they did that. and they didn't go off in other kinds of degrees. i think it gives them more credibility. but it doesn't matter because the republicans are going to say, this is not the case. the democrats are goi...

We're talking about? what is this doing to our country here where the truth is on trial? >> it affects our culture, don. you know, we got young people that are going to say, i'm not going to believe that because that's not my -- my opinion says something differently. by the way, i don't mean to say the bidens weren't in ukraine. they were involved somehow in ukraine with hunter being on the board and his father and all that. but when people said ukraine was really the one to disrupt the election and not russia, and when you have intelligence officials come out and say, you know, that's the rus...

May have contributed and answered questions. when i spoke to george papadopoulos about this, the trigger for the beginning of this whole investigation last night, he said we're looking towards durham because we know he has spoken to these individuals in europe, australia and other places and knows more about the c.i.a. potential involvement in all of this. so this is step one. there is more to go as bill barr has said. i just think it's important to keep in mind. >> bill: michael horowitz has been in this job since 2012. he is the one who handled the investigation of the clinton email matter w...