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Because of the last few years. the quote you hear, and you tell biden, you simply cannot jawbone americans into believing things are better than they feel. you just said something similar but you were pretty direct there. explain what you mean. how has he jawboned? >> i don't know if you recall his press conference before the anniversary of his inauguration, but he was very, very energetic in selling all of his achievements and selling the idea of progress. and i just could see people around the country who are struggling still with this virus, who are struggling still with a sense of we don't...

Over the country, a lot of people are worried. you're not worried? listen, it's very -- i respect what you're saying about democracy, but it doesn't seem like everyone is in that place and has that sort of frame of mind that you have. >> of course i'm worried, don. it's my job to be worried. and i'm realistic about the challenges we face. the challenges we face are some of the biggest challenges we've face d in this generation, certainly in my lifetime. toxicity running through our body politic, the surge of nationalism and white supremacy and racism, all of that converging, yes, it's tough. i...

Dismal approval ratings, maybe because of all the above that i just said. he's giving his stfirst state o the union speech in two weeks and you're warning him to be cautious. why is that? >> because of my own experience in the obama white house. we did a lot of things in 2009 to help reduce the brunt of the great recession, and yet it hit very hard. millions of people were suffering, people lost their homes, people lost their jobs. and, you know, the compulsion on the part of an office holder is to say here's what we are doing, and you want credit for what you're doing, and you want people to ...