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Congratulatory letter from the president, saying he would meet him in may. we had not been able to get that meeting. then thege security hold came u. with no explanation. and i -- i would be surprised if any of the ukrainians -- we discussed earlier, sophisticated people, when they receive no explanation for why that hold was in place, they wouldn't have drawn that oconclusion. >> because theaw investigations were still being pursued and the hold was still remaining without explanation? >> utcorrect. >> this, to you, was the only logical conclusion to reach? >> correct. >> sort of like two plu...

Take me down. >> that's correct. >> tried to take him down. i think any logical person that wants to do two plus two equals four games would say that that was in the 2016 election. wasn't it? >> i believe that's what he was referring to, yes, ranking member. >> so, during all of this time, remember, in the spring, the democrat's russia hoax witch hunt is still ongoing. they're still claiming that president trump is a russian agent. they're out to get -- they're out to get president trump at the time. his personal attorney is then interested in trying to figure out, who are these ukrainians tha...

Aid would not occur until there was a public statement from ukraine committing to the investigations. correct? >> correct. >> and you acknowledge that this is speculation. right? >> it was a presumption. >> okay. but you -- it was a guess, in fact, i think you even said this morning? >> well, i want to say that it goes back to mr. goldman's point or chairman schiff's, two plus two equalled four in my mind at that point. >> okay. but you didn't have any everyday of that correct? >> other than the aid wasn't being released and we weren't getting anywhere with the ukrainians. >> did ambassador vo...

Conversations, plus, mr. castor, i've had pa lot of conversations with the president about completely unrelated matters that have nothing to do with ukraine. >> okay. so, but you don't think we're missing any material conversations you had with the president? >> i don't recall any material conversations today as i'm sitting here. >> or with rudy guiliani? >> yeah. my memory about the conversations with rudy guiliani whether they were direct, whether they were conference calls with ambassador volker or secretary perry is really vague without seeing the you know the call logs. >> are there any o...

Of state? >> correct. >> now, have you seen the acting chief of staff press conference in which he acknowledged that the military aid was withheld in part because of a desire to get that 2016 investigation you've talked about? >> i don't think i saw it live. i saw it later, yeah. >> so you saw him acknowledge publicly what you have confirmed, too, that mr. mulvaney understood that two plus two equals four, is that right? >> well, again, i didn't know that the aid was conclusively tied. i was presuming. he was in a position to say yes, it was or no it wasn't because -- >> and he said yes it was...