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MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle-20191023-13:11:00

guess what, i committed the crime of attempted murder by poisoning. same principle applies. >> wow. i mean, jeff in the last few minutes -- >> taken a lot of abuse. i've taken a lot of abuse here. >> scandal -- >> i want that cup right there. >> don't use my cup. >> all right, david, i want to talk about an article you wrote about republican reaction to the white house strategy. and you quoted ted cruz, who said, "to defend against impeachment, they need a concerted, organized effort focused on the facts." if the white house had more facts to defend their version of what happened, why on earth wouldn't they use them? >> right, and i think that's key here. when you don't have substance, you fall back on process, and republicans are trying to make an argument, generally speaking, that this whole thing is poisonous because -- sorry to borrow that term there -- because the process is no good, and therefore, you cannot trust the facts that you are hearing from these closed-door hearings that are being leaked and

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MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle-20191023-13:19:00

you're asking what changes people's minds? what makes this different than other scandals is that i think what's happening here is that people are beginning to understathey don't understand i american people need to google it, republican senators clearly care about that. and so, they care as well about russia as well. they've overturned sanctions that the president didn't want before. so, this is different. >> david, mitch mcconnell, one of the most influential republicans who truly understands exactly how government works, had a very interesting response to something the president said about the ukrainian call. please watch this. >> i spoke to him about it, too. he read my phone call with the president of ukraine, mitch mcconnell. he said, that was the most innocent phone call that i've read. i mean, give me a break. >> the president has said that you told him that his phone call with the ukrainian president was perfect and innocent.

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MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle-20191023-13:41:00

but he very rarely talks specifics. specifically, rural business owners in pennsylvania, are they doing better under president trump and his policies? >> well, i think it's hard to say. you know, pennsylvania is a complicated struggling communities across the states isn't really making a difference in pennsylvania as of yet. that's the federal opportunity zone tax break program. and so far, it's just not really moving the needle. >> to stay on that for a second for people who don't understand, the idea of these opportunity zones, to give very big tax breaks to real estate investors to incentivize them to go to developing areas which will then spur the economy, when, in fact, that's not where the opportunity zones are popping up. those developers are going to more lucrative areas. so what's actually happening in pennsylvania? >> right. well, part of the issue is investors have such a range of

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MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle-20191023-13:47:00

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MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle-20191023-13:15:00

radical, unelected bureaucrats, right? this is where they are going to go. they are going to try to smear career public servants, but trying to smear someone like ambassador taylor, just like trying to smear bob mueller i think is going to be a very, very difficult process. >> yes, but don't -- bill taylor's testimony, for example -- these people who have testified seem far more ready to roll than bob mueller did. >> well, no, absolutely. and i think what we're seeing here is again and again, more and more people are coming out by the week, revealing exactly what happened. i mean, going back to glenn's point i think before here, right, we've seen this. and david's point before. we saw this in black and white in the transcript released by the white house of that call. president trump made the ask. boom. it's right there for the entire world to see. but now what we're seeing is more and more people who know what was happening behind the scenes be willing to come out. and every single drip, drip, drip of this for the president gets worse and worse, just as the polls of the american people are showing. >> okay. jeff, today defense department

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