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The president is not going change his testimony. so stop the nonsense. you are trying to trap him into perjury because you don't have a case. >> the president has lied, he's going to continue lying. >> we're not putting him under oath. then he lies under oath. >> the president really wants to testify and his lawyers are holding him back. i think that's all nonsense, it's all a political narrative. they have convinced a fair number of reporters because i think the president probably tells his staff so they can tell the reporters, i'd love to get in a room with mueller. i think i could convince ...

Without it. >> this hemming and hawing by giuliani where it looks like he and mueller's team are going back and forth, and we don't know whether that's true or not because mueller's team are so mum and whether this is giuliani playing to the cameras. but i am curious, mueller could end this, as you just said, if he decides, you know what, i'm going to split the baby here. i'll do the subpoena that i know i can win, which is to question him about all of his actions as a candidate. and i punt the questions about obstruction. is that the fallback scenario here? >> i don't see robert mueller going...

M.o., delay, delay, delay. this is how he handled debtors. every time you thought he was done as a businessman, he kept buying time, offer them 10 cents. keep negotiating. eventually the bankers are like, fine, i'm done. >> i agree with that. if i can go back to an earlier point about manafort, i think the people around manafort for sure see this as a whole with trump. in other words, you were saying that it's going to depend on what happens in this manafort trial. i was out there today and talking to some people there. they see it -- he sees it as part -- they're pushing the illegitimacy of p...

Possible where mueller is unlikely to issue a report after that. you know, there is this guideline within the department of justice about when you do things close to an election, i think it's 60 days from an election, you are not supposed to. and i think the assumption is that mule worry follow along with doj guidelines. so that gives you a couple more weeks. we're now looking at eight months that they have been having these negotiations about an interview. mueller's office, while they have said they wanted to talk to the president, they do seem to be letting the president's team and i think t...

Say, no, no, we're not stalling. but the hindrance on this wrapping up is the trump side has declined to give an interview, which mueller's team has said it wants. i think the stall tactic is to get it as close as possible to the election to made it harder for moouler for mueller to put out a report without being accused of playing politics. mueller's team indicated it could be wrapped up in 90 days once there was an interview. we're now three months out from the midterms. i think their bed is you are much less likely to get a report to congress before that. i think they're concerned about wha...