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Ambassador, as i write in the book, i got on the plane as mr. reset in washington, and i land as mr. revolutionary in moscow. and the reason i think is pretty simple. then putin was running for re-election. it was his third election, right. now he's on on to his fourth. and at the time, there had just been a parliamentary election that had been falsified. and this time there was mobilization against that falsification. and 5,500 and then hundreds of thousands of people on the streets of moscow protesting against putin. he blamed us for that. he blamed the united states, he blamed barack obama,...

Strategy, but i'm just concerned that it doesn't actually represent donald trump's own thinking. >> that's a good point, though. so, ambassador, how useful is this document if the president doesn't share its views? >> i think taken together, the two together are useful and on the whole reasonably statesmanlike. the key lesson we ought to draw from this is that especially since russians have been interfering with elections around the world since the 1920s, they call it disinformation. they have huge numbers of people devoted to it. what we have to do is save our next election. the key thing peo...

Very clear about the fact that the russians are not our friends and that they are subverting other democracies. but trump himself will never say a negative word about putin and he will never admit that the russians interfered in our elections, and that's just one example of this disconnect. i mean, there are many others in the document itself which suggests that it's not really speaking for donald trump per se, it's speaking for general mcmaster. and i agree with a lot of what's in the national security strategy, but i'm just concerned that it doesn't actually represent donald trump's own thin...

Our religious institutions been doing this since the 1930 aerks call it disinformation. they care a lot more about having people i think feeling as if things aren't working well than they do about the precise outcome. the thing that's really in trouble is that we're going to see them go after the voting machines. and we've got the first in a year in a bit. >> why does the president of the united states do this day continue to call this whole russia investigation their meddling in the u.s. democracy a hoax? >> i don't know -- >> it's not a hoax. you say it's the right thing. they are meddling. ...

Something, which is that the russians are never not interfering with democratic countries' governance. they do it all the time. they call it disinformation. the defector who was the head of romaniaen intelligence and defected us in '79, most senior defector we got in the cold war, but says they have more people involved in that kind of skull dug ri with respect to german elections, american and this -- they have more people involved in that than are in their armed forces. so pechepa says. you can't just sort of talk about this thing. you've got to create penalties. and they have to be penaltie...