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Care contributions from the employees. the battle is over, harold. >> you agree, the real effort on the part of walker was to destroy the unions? you agree with that? >> i think it was both. the long-term problem was the union's power. he solved that. >> the answer is yes? >> the answer is yes to both. >> what do you think? >> i think -- i guess it seems to me is a delusion behind this that the basic problem, with public sector finance is the unions. it just seems to me incorrect. especially the attacks on teachers' unions feel to me inappropriate. real problems with the work rules. but at the...

Everyone is trying to figure out what the alternative is to get around the other. we've gotten beyond the fact that there's a simple vote and people were voted to be in office and lead the state. by the way, the democrats leaving, i've got to tell you, i don't agree with governor walker. >> what the republicans were able to do, jim vandehei probably said it best, this was a great use of their power. they used it well. at the end of the day this was a clever political strategy. >> nick kristoff and pat. >> there's a real problem in public sector unions, work rules and pension allotments. but th...

Be able to unionize because in effect they are on both sides of the bargaining table. >> wouldn't want to be quite as categorical as that but we should have a big burden of suspicion against it. and i lot of cases its led to great waste of money. by the way a great failure of governmental institutions. people on the left who want government to work should be aware one of the reasons government works so much worse today than it did 30 and 40 years ago because of the spread of these work rules. >> to comment on your point on being on both sides of the bargaining table. i think we need to be care...

>> you would go further, you would argue, i assume that public sector workers should not be able to unionize because in effect they are on both sides of the bargaining table. >> wouldn't want to be quite as categorical as that but we should have a big burden of suspicion against it. and i lot of cases its led to great waste of money. by the way a great failure of governmental institutions. people on the left who want government to work should be aware one of the reasons government works so much worse today than it did 30 and 40 years ago because of the spread of these work rules. >> to comment...

End collective bargaining in wisconsin. the unions are playing defense which is not a good place when you're in politics. having said that. the public is beginning to take the other side, 60% are saying you know collective bargaining is a right. i think at the end of the day the governor went a bridge too far and made a big mistake. >> he's being judged on style not substance. the issue is work rules. the example that i used to bring home was going on wisconsin. they have a rural county on the shores of michigan where they have a juvenile detention center with six employees and one inmate. the...