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Disappeared. >> but our manufacturing out put is up. >> bill: but we're making it overseas so the people in wisconsin and michigan can't have those jobs. unless they want to move down to guatemala. >> they get new jobs, that comes back for new jobs, for new jobs to be created. >> bill: somewhat. >> in the recession it has been a job creating machine. >> bill: they were in the public service and tech sector, manufacturing is shot. you can make a good claim union labor killed manufacturing in the u.s.a., could you not? >> yes you could but not just the cost but the work rules. wisconsin, if you ...

>> it would have been easier. that's not the point. collective bargaining is good for if government. i was able toeduce the cost in philadelphia and harrisburg by changing unemployment benefits and getting harrisburg for the first time to pay into their health care plan. i was able to do that through the collective bargaining process. republicans are acting as if collective bargaining means you can never make changes for the better, never save money or change work rules. that's not true. what governorsyors have to do, go to the people and explain the changes they want and get public support on...

Right to negotiate over time, work rules, things like that? >> there are work rules that are very expensive to our cities and schools. and in this fiscal crisis we cannot continue to allow the cities and schools to have no authority over what they ask their employees to do. >> so that's the fight. we know where it stands. over work rules, overtime. other issues of collective bargaining. the republicans will not allow the unions to continue to have those rights to collectively bargain. the democrats who are holding out, are staying outside of the state, insists on the rights of workers to colle...

Protesting outside the statehouse. now the vote goes to the full indiana house but will there be enough support? the sponsor, a republican representative, joins me now. sir, this is probably the strongest anti-union piece of legislation in the country at the moment. under it there have been no bargaining with state unions for wages, benefits, or for any kind of work rules. you virtually eradicate unions from the public worker sector. >>guest: you are getting the bills confused. you seem to be talking about house bill 1585 which codifies what is current practice in indiana and has been since go...

Is that correct that one issue separating your two sides, the reason this is going on, you want to get rid of the union's right to negotiate over time, work rules, things like that? >> there are work rules that are very expensive to our cities and schools. and in this fiscal crisis we cannot continue to allow the cities and schools to have no authority over what they ask their employees to do. >> so that'sing the fight. we know where it stands. over work rules over time. other issues of collective bargaining. be the republicans will not allow the unions to don't have those rites to collective ...