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Refuses to respond to the special counsel, refuses to answer question and utterly creates a constitutional crisis. does paul ryan have the guts, the courage to stand up to the president of the united states? he has shown absolutely no courage. zero. up until now. none. but it will be on paul ryan at that point to defend the institutions of this democracy. i don't have any faith in him, but anyone who does, maybe should start e-mailing him and calling him now. >> everyone stay with us. and during the break i want all of you to contemplate whether donald trump really will be interviewed by the s...

About why he fired james comey. he's going to have to somehow find a different answer that -- although different somehow doesn't put him in conflict with what he said to lester holt. i don't know how you answer that question. >> trump has a problem here with the donald tells someone he lies he can't keep them straight and says whatever's in his head at the moment. but to be clear, to have impact, mueller can't just catch trump lying. that's like shooting fish in a barrel. he has to show substance. it's to show a connection back to the russians, that money changed hands, that's what we'll see a...

Can't be in the room. in the interview your lawyer can be in the room. in the interview, you can stop and say, excuse me, let me just talk to my attorney for a second before i ask the question. there is lots of leeway you can have in the interview room that you can't have in a jury room. you can talk to your lawyer in the jury room but only by leaving the room. you have to get up, leave the witness stand, leave the room, dom back in the room. that's the next stage if he refuses the interview. >> that's exactly right. bill clinton did try to fight over time, but ultimately that leverage that th...

>> and for the "new york times" just fishing for reasons to do it. looking at a dispute over fees at trump national golf club in virginia, that mueller had been a member there. he'd be representing jared kushner another reason. so fishing for any reason he could to get rid of mueller. i think ari made a point, there's a question of whether donald trump is ignorant or whether he's corrupt. the more information you get is corrupt. you can't be that ignorant if you're going beyond the russia investigation and saying we had disputes over fees at my golf club. he's looking for any reason to dis get...

Russia is on my mind, i need to protect my family finances, so go find me fake reasons for an unlawful firing, okay, now you have other people on the hook for potential obstruction. if you'll permit me. i brought one more aid since we were talking about where the rules are. this is the cfr doj rules it says only the attorney general may remove the special counsel and only for good cause that cause must be specified in writing for the specific reason of his or her removal. if you start asking people, lawyers or others, to falsify those things you're asking people to commit crimes. so the list t...