Transcripts For CNNW CNN 20240704

Us tonight. Cnn primetime abby Philip Joe Starts right. Now thank you, caitlin, good evening, every everyone. Im abby philip, welcome to cnn prime time. The clock is now ticking, donald trump in 18 codefendants have just ten days to turn themselves in, after being indicted in Georgia On Serious Criminal Charges. The former president is accused of being the head of a criminal enterprise, to overturn joe bidens victory in that state. Tonight, a local sheriff says hes expected to be out of Fulton County jail. What is going on right now in trumps world, with just ten days to go until surrender . We also have news on mark meadows making a lastditch attempt to get the case against him in georgia dismissed. Well begin to all of that tonight. Plus, the 45th president of the United States faces a stunning 91 Criminal Charges across four separate cases. And it will be tied up in multiple courtrooms, throughout this president ial cycle. All while hes running for the second term. So, what should the gop do, if their front runner has been now indicted four times over . We will talk to New Hampshire governor, chris sununu, one of the former president s most vocal critics in the Republican Party. And it was one of the most defining images of the civil rights movement, a 15 year old elizabeth ecole, or one of the little rock nine, making her way through an angry mob as they integrated in the whites only high school. Now, 66 years later, there is a new Battle Over Black History in the state of arkansas. Well talk to Little Rock School board member tonight about all of that. Lets begin now with trump, and the world scrambling with just ten days to surrender to the georgia authorities. Here with me now, cnn special correspondent, jamie gangel, former fbi deputy director, andrew mccabe. Former federal prosecutor, elliott williams. Former trump attorney, Tim Parlatore. Tim, i want to start with you. You have the special insight into this, of course. Were learning tonight about what could happen in the next ten days or so, a surrender to Fulton County officials, the sheriff says hes gonna have to go to a county jail, basically. What do you expect to happen if you are his attorney . Is it something you get over, with or you wait until the last second here. I think theyre probably gonna want to wait till the last second, just because what weve seen consistently throughout these cases, the game of inches of trying to delay it out a little bit more. So, if they had ten days, and you surrender on the first day, if youre trying to drag the case out past the election, why not take the extra ten days. If it wasnt a case where you had an election, i would take my client in today. But thats a different calculus. Of course, between today and the very last possible day, which is next friday, there is a president ial debate. Another topic just today, on the legal front, we have mark meadows. He is indicted in georgia. Now, his attorneys have now filed a motion to have this case remanded to a Federal Court. And what do you make of that legal move . Do you think it will be successful . I do. I was expecting this from the beginning. I think donald trump and mark meadows will both File Removals to have it taken a Federal Court. If you look at the attempt to move the alvin bragg case to Federal Court, you read the decision by judge in there, he lays out the standard, and when you read it. You realize, alvin braggs case needs a standard to stay in court. But fani williss case actually does belong in Federal Court, it really does deal with these two federal officials, related to things that they were doing well in office. Well physically in the oval office, as hes doing the stuff. I expect that will be successful. Now, that doesnt remove fani willis from the case. Still the same prosecutor, still the same defended, same defense attorney, same indictment. Just different, building different judge, different jury pool. What do you make of that, andrew . I think do former President Trump, mark meadows, and also jeffrey clark, have been crazy not to make that motion. They probably have a good chance of succeeding. But not a guarantee shot at succeeding. In particular, the former president. He has to, under Supreme Court precedent, he has to be able to show not only that he was an officer of the court, but that is a colorable federal defense. Theres no question as to whether or not the defense, if he predicates that on a claim of federal immunity, i think its questionable as to whether not federal immunity would cover his actions, as described in this indictment. He clearly was not acting on the under federal in 30, far beyond the scope of his duties as president. In meddling with the election in georgia. So, its not a guaranteed win for him. Theyll absolutely make a motion, if they could succeed. Perhaps maybe the most surprising thing, that meadows was the first person to do, it and not trumps attorneys. Tim, just broadly speaking, the charges hes facing here in georgia, putting aside the issue of which venue it is tried and, if youre his attorney, which are not anymore for a number of reasons, what would you say to mount this defense of this former president . This case, more than so that are some of the others, i think when i read through the indictment, i saw a lot of potential legal attacks. Before you get to the merits. The use of the rico statute in this instance is unique. I think that theyre gonna have some problems, especially if they get it over to Federal Court, because rico has an element of continuity to it. Where you have an organization, an enterprise, that is engaging in a series of racketeering acts, as part of a continuing course of conduct, like a mafia family, or organized for crime gang, things like that. Here, its all focused on a singular event, which is the election. So, when you do bring it over to Federal Court and they start to apply some of the federal rico standards to, it thats were gonna become problematic. Also reading through the pattern of racketeering activity, there are ways you can attack that, really on a motion to dismiss on the structural side, before even get to the merits. I would want to see how much you can cut away there. You also have the issue of fani willis, shes a County District attorney. A lot of this stuff didnt happen in her county. Coffee county, a separate day for that. As she pointed out, i should say, she pointed out, their stuff in the indictment that happened in other states, its not to say that theyre charged specifically with all those things. But that they were part of the conspiracy. I see, elliott, fighting frantically. Whats your take on that defense that you heard from him . Well, i think, you do have a continuing course of conduct. I think the court could find that the course of conduct started back in june of 2020, culminated in the election, and continued on through the january 6th, or even today. There is at least an argument, that there was a continuing course of conduct. Im with you, it is an aggressive way to charge an individual. I think we have, in our heads, that rico racketeering, whether the trump organization, prosecutions are for Mafia Families and so on. And the way the Georgia Statute is written, its broader than the federal statute, as we also talked about here. Perhaps all these things can be brought in. All of these questions, including that removal from Federal Court, which im not totally in agreement with either view on, it may actually end up staying in Georgia State court. Its just a complicated legal question that no one touched yet. Its going to be litigated. Can i just say for the record, when you listened to that phone call, asking for those 11,780 votes, it sounds an awful lot like the mafia. And that is for a jury, a kind of close Crystal Clear piece of evidence. Ive represented gangsters, there are a lot more vague than that on the phone. Even if its not mafioso top, or whatever, that is not a president of the United States. It is a candidate for office. It is an interval whos running for office. This question of moving into Federal Court, rick requires him acting in his capacity as president. Where the president ends and the man begins, the canada begins, in the president s, is blurry. The court is gonna have to sort that out i dont think its entirely cut and dry, given amount of evidence. Jamie, i want to leave a moment here for you rudy giuliani, whos all over this indictment as well. He is being charged, in a rico statute, which he basically pioneered. Then, on top of, that we hear today, that hes basically broke. His legal fees are piling up. What has happened to the man once known as americas mayor . He said today, he hasnt changed. Hes still the same man. I interviewed rudy, as we called him, when he was mayor many times. If rudy has not changed, in all of these years, we didnt know him very well back then. I have several Close Friends who worked with him. He is a different person today. This is yuck he was a character, when he was mayor. He was a tough guy he liked to litigate. He was always dsean interesting person. I think this is tragic, actually. One of the most on forgettable moments of the saga, is that Press Conference. The rnc with rudy giuliani. Sweat dripping down his face. Such a moment. Interestingly enough, its in the indictment in georgia, part of the evidence against him in this case. Thank you all for being here tonight. Coming up next for us, what should the gop do about a front runner who is now facing 91 Criminal Charges across four separate cases . 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For one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. One pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. What do we always say, son . Liberty mutual customizes your car insurance. So you only pay for what you need. Thats my boy. Stay off the freeways only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Swords Clashing had enough . No. Arthritis. Here. Aspercreme arthritis. Full prescriptionstrength . Reduces inflammation . Thank the gods. Dont thank them too soon. Kick pain in the aspercreme. We are following the latest reaction in the Republican Party, to the stunning fourth indictment of former President Trump. By a Georgia Grand Jury. Trumps biggest critics of the 2024 primary race offered mixed reactions today. I want to bring in one of the former president s most outspoken critics him themselves, the New Hampshire governor, chris sununu. Governor sununu, thank you for being here. What was your reaction when you looked at, i dont know if youve read, all 98 pages. This indictment coming out of georgias Fulton County . Well, all disagree on one thing. I dont think it was stunning. I think we all knew it was coming. Even the former president said, you, know fourth indictment only help him. So, from a political standpoint, i dont think many folks in the republican side are shocked by this. I dont think it moves his numbers anymore. He has a lot of that built in sympathy vote there. But to his point, it helps him. This is all the media is talking about, as long as you guys, not, you cnn, but understandably so, from atm to 11 pm every, night seeing his name 100 times, and not really giving any air time to any of these other candidates. Thats exactly what the former president wants. He doesnt have to want to talk about issues. He doesnt want to have to talk about Going Forward in healing america, and all these things that the rest of america wants to see. He wants to relitigate the past, and were kind of letting him do that. Which is unfortunate. I dont think any of that changes as it hits the debate. I hear what youre saying, i think the question was more about the conduct alleged in the indictment. If you look at the sheer number of people charged in the georgia case, youre talking about 18 trump allies, including trump himself. Theyre accused of racketeering, at least one, and at least one related crime. Theres a lot of conduct alleged here, including trying to tamper with voting machines, and actual voting information. What is your take on the actual information contained in this document . So, a couple things. Im not a lawyer, i will say, this is incredibly similar to the federal indictment. The jacks mitt is doing out of doj. Other than, as you brought up, now 18 people involved. Thats a much bigger swath of individuals. Something that i think republicans need to take note of, this is a grand jury in a very conservative state. That said this guy needs to be indicted. This isnt just the department of justice and the idea that its all politicized. This is a grand jury in georgia of all states. Which, again, kind of doubles down on the idea, this guy cant win in november. You might give him the nomination, i hope we dont, but this guy cannot win a state like jersey, or arizona, where these two states they absolutely have to have. Last time i checked, you cant govern if you dont win. Its just gonna be another sob story for donald trump. And hes gonna crush the republican ticket going down. I still, very hopeful, the republicans as a whole, make a smart choice and find that one or two candidates to go against him by the time iowa in New Hampshire hit. If trump is the nominee, what should Republican Voters do, in your opinion . For indictment, in probably at least one of those trials. What should they do . What will you do if hes the nominee . Look, that reality wouldnt come to bear, if it did, and i dont think it will, it wouldnt come to bear for about a year from now. So, the whole political dynamic is going to change, is joe biden even on the ticket by then . One of the democrats done by then . Whats the alternative by then . Is there a third party . Theres gonna be all of these other what ifs, what if, what ifs. And then each voter is gonna have to decide. Thats the beauty of our system. We might completely disagree with voters, even sometimes in the wrong party. But its their choice to make. Its americas choice. One of the candidates in the race, ron desantis, is saying that this indictment is helping trump. He may be right, if you look at some of the polling, they found trump and desantis were about four points away. More recently, a New York Times poll found that had trump had a massive lead over desantis. Only grown, do you think thats true . The indictments are the reason hes winning . Is it the failure of candidates like desantis and others. Of course. Or, is it the failure of other candidates to launch a Strong Campaign against him . Well, look, i think theres too many candidates in the race. I think most people would agree. Its a diluted message. I think a lot of them have a hard time, they spend time defining themselves on policy, that theyre missing the boat there. They need to show leadership. Inspiration. Something people can galvanize and get excited about. They have our interests, that they have to get us excited as republicans in the party. There is no doubt, these four indictments have definitely built a lot of sympathy for the former president. He knows how to use the media to his advantage, incredibly, incredibly well. Ill give him all the credit in the world on that. He knows how to take something bed, make it good, Build Sympathy and empathy onto himself. He plays the victim role, and the guy is literally a victim at this point. Which is just crazy if you know his background and understand who he really is. But hes been up to play that very well. Its not so much in New Hampshire and iowa, the polls, locally here, a very different on what you see nationally, but nationally, the average republican is just seeing what they see on the news, and are not seeing any of the other candidates. No ones giving the other candidates airtime. No one is giving the other candidates to your point. I would disagree with you on that. Theyre creating their own news. The other candidates are getting plenty of airtime, the question is, what are they doing with that airtime . Next monday well they dont get any airtime. Many of them every station tonight. Every station tonight, and the next night, and the next, i will say trumps name 100 times. We are gonna have one candidate on here. Hes getting an idea percent of the attention. Let me ask you this, look, next week, trump says hes gonna hold a Press Conference about the georgia indictment, he says hes going to prove that there was voter fraud. What should the response of the other candidates in this race be to that . It is 2023, trump is gonna hold a Press Conference next monday, about the 2020 president ial election. So, i honestly dont believe, from a purely political standpoint, that their response is going to move their numbers one way or the other. I just dont, these candidates have to make their own news. They have to show something about who they are, in terms of leadership, and if its only based on donald trump, again, theyre giving trump all the airtime. Theyre only quitting themselves, based on his image and his likeness, and how they compared to that. Trump loves that. Youre playing right into his hand if you think every candidate really be out there taking aside on trump or not. They have to be themselves. Show leadership without him. I dont think its about taking a side on trump. Its a question of taking aside on what hes saying is true or false. Before you go, governor, just a final question, we were getting at this earlier, four indictments in, if trump is the nominee, will you vote for him . Again, i dont think hes gonna be the nominee, and thats a question for a year from now with 100 other variables will come to play. I would say, whether i vote for him or another person vote for him, im not a candidate. That doesnt really matter, if i may, what matters is what happens between now and then. How we narrow the field, down amongst republicans. I will give the majority of republicans in this country a real clear choice, as opposed to 11 candidates in trump. So, thats all that really matters between now and then. How these candidates, to your point, stay on their own, create their own news, crater on inspiring moments that people say, you know what, there is the one. There is the one individual we can narrow this down to. Trump can take his 40 of the vote and go home. Well take 60 with his other candidate. And actually have something for the future of america. You are not a candidate, but you are a citizen, like so many others watching this program. I think it is interesting that you wont say you allow voting for trump, even though youre making because i dont know. Youre making such an inordinate. Are you gonna vote for joe biden . Are you gonna vote for joe biden if hes indicted on bribery . So much could change between now in the next year. Who knows. Well, thats one way of looking at it. Governor chris sununu, thank you very much for joining us. I appreciate it. There you go. Its the tale of two indictments, two different approaches to prosecuting the former president. The state charges over georgia over trumps efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Then, over there, the federal charges also for trumps election subversion efforts. Well discuss the differences between them, next. Evas about to learn her fear of missing out leads to overeating. I totally eat stuff to not miss out. D thats just a bit of Psychology Eva learned fr noom weight. Sign up now at noom. Com a Georgia Grand Jury indicting former President Trump over his alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election there. This latest indictment is quite different from what Special Counsel jack smith brought down with the January 6th Case earlier this month. Lets take a closer look at why. First, there is just the sheer number of people implicated here in this January 6th Case. Only trump is named as the defendant at the federal level. Well the georgia cases, in the georgia case, trump and 18 other defendant, including allies like mark meadows, rudy giuliani, and also john eastman, are named as well. Next, there is the difference in the charges being brought. The January 6th Case only lists for, compared to georgia, which has a whopping 41. And then finally, there is a conversation around potential pardons. Now, if donald trump wins the presidency in 2024, there is a chance that he could try to pardon himself if hes convicted in the January 6th Case. Those pardoning powers, they dont extend to state crimes. Meaning, he couldnt pardon himself if hes convicted in georgia. Same as the guard governor could not pardon him other. I want to bring a democratic congressman jamie raskin, he served on the january 6th select committee. Congressman raskin, thank you for joining us tonight. Look, these indictments are so different, 45 pages versus 98 pages. A veritable tome in georgia. Willis really is alleging this broad conspiracy over 100 different acts that are allegedly in furtherance of that conspiracy. Jack smith basically took a very narrow path. He focused on trump himself. I wonder, do you have any concerns that the georgia indictment, maybe a little too broad . Well, its broad, in terms of the number of charges. When youre talking about 41 charges. But its really identified the crimes down at the molecular level. False statements, to the government, false document terry submissions. Forgeries. Solicitation of public officials, to violate their oath of office, conspiracy to defraud the people of georgia of their election, and so on. Its very specific and dense, in terms of what the charges are in linking those to pursue specific acts. There were more than 150 specific actions that were already alleged, as part of the indictment. Whereas, in the federal case, you had the more general statement of the conspiracy to defraud the american people, and cheat us out of our election, the conspiracy to interfere with the federal proceeding, and conspiracy to violate everyones civil rights, specifically, the right to vote and to choose our own leaders. So, i view it more as the federal indictment being a much more of a Macro Statement of what was going on with the conspiracy. And then, the rico charges, relating to the conspiracy in georgia, being a far more dense and molecular reconstruction of exactly what happened and how it violated the state laws of the people of georgia while youre on the january 6th committee, you all had some runins with the former chief of staff, mark meadows. He and michelin cooperated, and then stopped cooperating. Why do you think it ended up that fani willis was able to charge mark meadows in her indictment, but Special Counsel jack smith didnt, either he chose not to, or believed, perhaps, he could not for some reason. Well, i dont know the answer to your question. Im assuming they just have a lot more factual information and testimony about what his role actually was. Interestingly, a few hours ago, i believe that mr. Meadows petitioned for removal of his case, under a statute which allows federal officials, in certain circumstances, to remove cases from state court to Federal Court, if they were acting under the color of federal law in execution of their federal duties. So, what curious to me about that, he has to be, essentially, alleging and arguing, that he was acting on president ial orders to do everything he did, within the confines of his job. In other words, he was not acting as a campaign volunteer, after hours and on weekends, but rather was executing the orders of donald trump. Well see what happens with that. He may have a plausible case for getting it removed. Its interesting, he wants to get out of state court and fly back to the safety of the Federalist Society packed Federal Courts. In any event, i believe its in the 11th circuit where the court is considering another rico action, which is, Donald Trumps rico lawsuit against hillary clinton. Which was thrown out of the District Court level, now being considered by the 11th court. Were getting so much of donald trump litigation and prosecution, whereas other than the defendant or the plaintiffs, he might have to argue different sides on the same legal issue in Different Cases that are appearing in various circuits. Hes in one main crime for wave. Hes gonna be his own Law School Seminar one day. One of the other things i want to ask you about, i know you all dealt with this as well, this is trumps speech on the ellipse on january 6th. Fani willis called that speech an overt act of that conspiracy, that rico conspiracy. Is it a risk to go there, when it comes to Criminal Charges. Does it veer into free speech territory . If she raises what he said on that ellipse that . Well, if thats all she was hanging her hat on, that was the only action being alleged, that would obviously invite the First Amendment struggle. Of course, under the brandenburg decision, incitement to Imminent Lawless Action is not protected under the First Amendment. In any case, thats not the only action by a long shot. Theyve got 161 different, specific actions that are alleged. Of course, speech makes up the course of conduct, constituting a lot of crimes. For example, you think about an antitrust collusion conspiracy, where businesses get together to set prices. That can take place without speech. When you think about insider trading, but and people conspiring to give secrets about whats taking place inside a company. That cant take place without speech. You dont zero in, microscopically, just look at the speech. You see if thats part of a pattern of conduct that adds up to violation of the law. Hes alleging a lot of different criminal actions, way beyond his speech at the ellipse. Which as i said before, is not necessarily itself protected under the First Amendment. To my mind, it did incite Imminent Lawless Action. And the proof of that is the fact that 150 of our Police Officers were bloodied and wounded by the mob that he sat down in the capital. All right, congressman jamie raskin, thank you very much for joining us today. Thanks for having me. 2024 candidates are reacting to this latest indictment of former President Trump. Theyre saying next. Baby, only on game nights. You know you are retired right . Am i . Ya save 50 on the sleeeep Number Limited Edition smart bed. Plus, freeee Home Delivery when you add a base. Shop now only at sleep number. She runs and plays like a puppy again. His 2s are perfect hes a brand new dog, all in less than a year. When people switch their dogs food from kibble to the farmers dog, they often say that it feels like magic. But theres no magic involved. dog bark its simply fresh meat and vegetables, with all the nutrients dogs need instead of dried pellets. Just food made for the health of dogs. Delivered in packs portioned for your dog. Its amazing what real food can do. Icy hot. Ice works fast. Heat makes it last. Feel the power of contrast therapy. So you can rise from pain. Icy hot. For your most brilliant smile, crest has you covered. laughing nice smile, brad. Nice thanks . Crest 3d white. 100 more stain removal. Crest. Oh, oh, oh. Ill be the judge of that. Oh, thats nice. Oh searchable, verified reviews. Thats better than the ham, and ive never said that. Booking. Com booking. Yeah Donald Trumps closest 2024 rival, rhonda santas, is once again, refusing to go after him for his ongoing legal troubles. When he was asked about this, On A New England radio station, the desantis called it an example of, quote, the criminalization of politics. A lot of trumps other 2024 rivals are singing, basically, the same tune. Lets bring in cnn senior political commentator and former republican congressman, adam kinzinger. Also with us, former White House Communications director, kate bedingfield. Kate, i want to ask you about what president ial candidate Chris Christie also said this week, basically christie has been one of the people most strongly criticizing trump. Heres what he said about this latest georgia indictment. I am uncomfortable with what i read last night. I think that this conduct is covered by via federal indictment. Election interference is election or fear its. I would have less of a problem at this if she decided, okay, im not gonna charge donald trump here, because hes been charged. For essentially misconduct by jack smith. But giuliani and meadows and others have not been charged at the federal level. That would be a more defensible indictment, i think. Did that surprise you . To see christie taking that stance . Well, it did a little bit. These comments, and obviously, the contents comments of Governor Desantis in all the other candidates who are running, republican candidates who are running for the nomination, sound like people who are resigned to donald trump being the nominee. This is really and it underscores how much this is Donald Trumps party. We have evidence, over the course of the last couple of years, that show appalling behavior by a former president. You have a handful of elected officials who say they want to be the standard bearer for their party in 2024, who are unwilling to take that on. There certainly a moral component to that, also from a political standpoint, from a strategic standpoint, the dynamic of the race is not gonna change unless somebody takes it to donald trump in a really meaningful way. This is an opportunity to do that, and to see governor christie back off from some of the tougher things that he said about donald trump over the last few weeks, few months. It shows you where the Republican Party, where these candidates believe the race is going. Adam, do you think there is a path here for republicans to address this directly, ahead on, as kate said, while also getting votes that they need to become, potentially, the nominee . Well, if they all did it, and actually lead, like the word leadership means, to lead, and told the base voter that donald trump was corrupt, which we all know. Andale no. They know is corrupt. They know he broke the law. If everybody would jump off the cliff until the voters the truth, yeah. There would be a path. Because people would listen to them. Instead, its amazing to me what people are sitting around, reading this stuff about donald trump. Theyre probably open to, maybe this was wrong, maybe this was corrupt. And then they see ron desantis stand up and say, this is a weaponization of the doj. Of course theyre gonna believe its a weaponization of the doj. Because they trust ron desantis. They trust tim scott. They trust these people. These people that are running for president are failing their voters. They are not leading their voters. Every day that goes by, when i watch people like desantis and tim in everything say, oh, this is just weaponization, it blows my mind. Why are you even running . Just endorsed donald trump, work for him, try to get in the cabinet. Because you know this is corrupt. The people that vote republican, i think in their hearts, obviously very good people. They have been so misled, yes, everyones responsible for what they believe. To an extent, well, if all your leaders are telling you the dojs been weaponized, i guess its fair to believe it. One of the things about this grand jury indictment in georgia, it actually lists the names of the jurors, the grand jurors, who are a part of it. Not meant to be secret in that state. Predictably, on truth social, theres all this chatter about these individuals. Adam, quickly, what do you make of that . Im sure you can imagine what is being said about these individuals online. Oh, look, i look at the stuff online, i see whats said about me, i can see what said about them. This is really dangerous. I get it, its the georgia law. These people need to be very careful. They should have security around them. It doesnt mean that everybody that loves donald trump is gonna go out and be violent, but if just half a percent, or even half a percent of that half a percent think that violence is the answer, theyre gonna go after these folks. Very scary, if you see whats being said on social media. Yeah. Kate, as we look at the calendar here, the first Republican Debate is just about a week away now. Trump has to turn himself in by friday, early in the program, Tim Parlatore said, hes not gonna wait until the very last second. Which would be after that debate. I wonder, if youre the Biden Campaign, whats the strategy here . Is it to let this all play out . Is it to weaponize this in some way . Well, i think what the Biden Campaign will do, continue to demonstrate the contrast. I will tell you, what we saw on the campaign in 2019 and 2020, consistently in polling and focus groups and our internal data on the campaign, that people were really put off by the sense of chaos around donald trump particularly, independent voters, swing voters, the extent that there really are swing voters left in this moment in our politics. People were really put off. The best thing the Biden Campaign can do, and what i can imagine they will do, they will let it play out. Whether donald trump is physically at that debate or not, he will be at that debate. The specter of donald trump will be hanging over that debate. When youre preparing for a president ial primary debate, you are thinking about, what are the one or two narratives that i could possibly grasp, moving out of the debate, coming out of the debate. Only a limited number of headlines available, sort of the way this works. So, every candidate is trying to think through how they can land their moment. Donald trump is guaranteed to be one of those storylines coming out of that debate. Whether hes on the stage or not. The rest of the candidates are gonna have to work through how they can steal a moment for themselves. For the Biden Campaign, the best thing they can, do and what i expect they will do, to stand back, let it happen, let people see what the Republican Party stands for right now. Yeah, of course, thats part of the calculus with trump saying, maybe hell be there, maybe he wont. Kate bedingfield, adam kinzinger, thank you both very much. You bet. Thanks, abby. Up next, arkansas public schools, they are now being told by the state Department Of Education, this new ap African American studies class may not meet the Graduation Requirements in the state. Up next, ill speak with a Little Rock School board member, who opposes that abrupt change. Its earned in every wash, and reearned every day. Tide. 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What do we always say, son . Liberty mutual customizes your car insurance. So you only pay for what you need. Thats my boy. Stay off the freeways only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Its the latest conflict over the black teaching of black history in america. The Department Of Education told in arkansas, told the arkansas course may not meet Graduation Requirements. The state tells us, its because its a pilot course and is still undergoing revisions. According to the New York Times, the Education Department is suggesting that this course may violate state law. After legislation known as the learns act was passed back in march. That expensive law encompassed a wide range of provisions. It prohibits, quote, teaching that would indoctrinated its with ideologies such as critical race theory. Now, the states governor, Sarah Huckabee sanders, has been a vocal critic of what shes been Calling Indoctrination in schools. We have to make sure that we are not indoctrinating our kids. And that these policies, these ideas, never see the light of day. We should never teach our kids to hate america. Or that america is a racist and evil country. Joining me now is attorney of the School Board Member for the Little Rock School district, aly nolin. She is representing two plaintiffs in a lawsuit against the learns act. Ali, thank you for joining us. I wonder, do you believe that this ap African American studies course does violate the text of that new state law, the learns act. Absolutely not. This course is an essential and important part of American History. What it does, it provides students with a regional documents, so they can learn the Critical Thinking skills to be able to interpret and make around decisions about these topics. So, it is the opposite of indoctrination. Cnn spoke with the Communications Director for governor huckabee sanders, she pointed out that this is a pilot class. That African American history, a separate class, is already offered in arkansas schools. She tweeted something to that effect yesterday as well. Do you think that is the real reason that this course is not, basically, being endorsed by the state for students to get credit toward graduation for. No, i do not. We have seen this course piloted in arkansas last year, successfully. The students who took it last year were able to use it for Graduation Credit. This change came abruptly this weekend. The weekend before School Started in arkansas, in fact, in a statement yesterday, the Arkansas Department of education specifically said, there are prohibited top picks that cant be taught under arkansas. And incited that language. I believe that that is what this is about. This is an African American studies course. This is obviously unfolding in arkansas, little rock is the home of central high school. Thats the scene of this major battle over school desegregation. Hopefully, students across the country are learning about the little rock nine. I wonder, what has been the reaction in the state to black history becoming the subject of this kind of controversy . The people ive spoken to are extremely frustrated and angry. This course, we had almost 100 students enrolled and ready to take this course at Little Rock Central High School this school year. We want to provide our students with every opportunity. Other students and other states are able to take a peek horses and gain all the benefits. Things like obtaining college credit, having waited gpas. Here, in arkansas, because of this decision, the only student who might be able to take this course, our students who can afford to forego a Graduation Credit for a yearlong course like this. So, especially here, i cannot think of anywhere that it is more important to study this history then in a classroom than Little Rock Central High School, a National Historic site based on its role in American History in the civil rights movement. Aly nolin, thank you very much for joining us tonight and sharing that perspective. Coming up ahead on cnn, cnn tonight with laura coats, she sits down with hollywood legend, morgan freeman. Theyre going to discuss his latest project on the original black panthers. Thats next. Oh, booking. Com somewhere, anywhere. I just want to lie motionless in a chair booking. Com, booking. Yeah she runs and plays like a puppy again. His 2s are perfect hes a brand new dog, all in less than a year. When people switch their dogs food from kibble to the farmers dog, they often say that it feels like magic. But theres no magic involved. dog bark its simply fresh meat and vegetables, with all the nutrients dogs need instead of dried pellets. 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Leslie we saw doubledigit gains in math, in english, and reading scores. David its an innovation thats transforming our public schools. Narrator californias Community Schools reimagining public education. Thats it for me on cnn prime time, cnn tonight with laura coates starts right now. Take it away laura. So nice to see you, abby philip, always great show. Good evening everyone, im laura coates and tonight the explosive fourth indictment of donald trump and 18 of his allies in georgia is moving pretty fast and may just have days aged her themselves in, it is coming up next friday. We have got a great lineup of smart voices carry sweatshirt, matt lewis, getting queen and my interview with you one and only morgan freeman. But first, an ironic twist