Transcripts For CNNW Anderson 20240704

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Well talk to a reporter who spoke at length with the president and hell, hell detail the biden he saw and later some rare reporting inside haiti where armed gangs rule the streets and Civil Society is coming apart at the seams. Good evening, everyone. Thanks. For your time. John king sitting in for anderson tonight, we begin with one certain thing donald j. Trump will be on the ballot in all 50 states, the Supreme Court today, making it a reality and making history, settling an issue thats been unclear since reconstruction. All nine justices deciding that neither colorado nor any other state can bar him under the 14th amendments Section Three insurrection language quoting from the opinion quote, we conclude that states may disqualify persons holding or attempting to hold state office. But states have no power under the constitution to enforce Section Three with respect to federal offices, especially the presidency. The opinion was per curiam, meaning not attributed to any specific justice. However, in a concurrence that you might say reads more like a dissent, justices sonia sotomayor, elena kagan, and Ketanji Brown jackson take issue with the rulings broadness, which they suggest is to quote insulate this court and petitioner from future controversy. The petitioner, of course, being donald trump, has for him he praised the ruling, then pivoted to the courts. Next big decision on president ial immunity when you make a decision, you dont want to have your opposing party or opponent, or even somebody that just thinks youre wrong bring a criminal suit against you or any kind of assumed when you leave office, i have that right now. Now at a level that nobodys ever seen before, i have Rogue Prosecutors and i have rogue judges have judges that are out of control. And its a very unfair thing for me. Keeping them honest there is of course, no evidence of Rogue Prosecutors or judges, no matter how many times he says that there are colorado Secretary Of State, Jenna Griswold also weighing in a bit earlier here on cnn first and foremost, im glad that they issued a decision colorado voters and American Voters all across the country deserve to know whether donald trump is qualified or not as we go into Super Tuesday but in terms of the bigger decision, im disappointed and i also think that the big concern is still there. Donald trump incited the insurrection. He incited that violent mob onto the capital to try to stop the peaceful transfer of president ial power. And he has not stopped his tax on democracy since then joining us now, the michigan Secretary Of State, jocelyn benson, whose state Supreme Court back in december, rejected an attempt to keep donald trump off the ballot. Madam secretary, grateful for your time. Are you did file an amicus brief with the Supreme Court back in january. You took no position as to how the legal issue should be resolved, but you said for the good of democracy the courts would resolve them now and quote, are you satisfied with todays opinion . You get clarity. Did you get what you wanted yes, i am. And thanks for having me. I we her in michigan and Election Officials all across the country are fully prepared to do our jobs this year, which is making sure every citizen can vote and that were administering thankful, free and fair elections. So that continues. The clarity provided by the court is to affirm what i and the vast majority of my colleagues have also said since the beginning, which is that its inappropriate for any one state to weigh in and make a decisive position. Take a decisive position on such a thorny legal issue. It really is best left to the federal government and the Supreme Court has affirmed that, given us that clarity. So that any state or state courts still wrestling with a question of how to apply Section Three of the 14th amendment. Now has that clarity to declare Donald Trumps eligibility as a candidate in this election. Yet, you heard your colleague, your democratic colleague from colorado Secretary Of State, Jenna Griswold, telling wolf blitzer earlier tonight, while she accepts the courts ruling, she Still Believes individual states should be able to disqualify a president ial candidate from the ballot if theyve deemed that candidate participated in an insurrection, do you agree with her . Ive been doing this a long time and one of the staples of almost 40 years of doing this is the Secretary Of State hey, the chief elections officials, whether youre a democratic republican from a midwestern state as you are the east coast or the west coast, most of them get along and focus on the mechanics of running a free and fair election. Is there a disagreement among your colleagues whether theyre democrats or republicans on this question . Again, i think the vast majority of my colleagues have taken the same position i have, which is that its inappropriate for a State Official to weigh in on this issue. And today, the Supreme Court affirmed that position. It said, indeed, in cases like this where the legal and factual issues are not straightforward, the constitution requires they be determined permit at the federal level, not at the state level. And then again, i think on all of this, we have to remember who has the ultimate authority, which is the voters in every state. And that again, was to me a firm today by giving voters the opportunity to weigh in on who they should hold politically accountable at the ballot box for the issues at stake in this years election, who did it surprise you or did you view it as smart . Justices part that they did not directly address the question of whether donald trump actually engaged in insurrection on in and around january 6 i was surprised. I was at the Oral Arguments as well and expected as i think many of us did for a lot of the discussion to be focused on the definition of insurrection, the facts in this case but notably, the court said, look, there are lots of different issues at play, both legal and factual. And the question is really, who is the appropriate authority . What is the appropriate forum . And when is the appropriate time to make these determinations as a legal scholar and a former law dean, i know you have to determine those who and what and when at the same time or perhaps before you get to the substance of the case. And so i wasnt surprised at all by even the unanimously or the per curiam aspect of the decision today. And i was grateful because it showed by issuing it today before Super Tuesday, the court is aware of the importance of both clarity and timing in this case. And again, and making sure voters go into this Election Cycle with the clarity of their power to determine the future of our country in this upcoming election. Secretary betsy, grateful for your time on this important day. Thank you so much with me now to continue the conversation, the bestselling Supreme Court biographer jeffrey toobin, our cnn senior legal analyst, elie honig and cardozo law schools jessica roth. Jeff based on the Oral Arguments, not a shock. If you listen to the Oral Arguments, this is where the court seemed to be leaning that day. So we always look for clues. Number one, there unanimous. Thats rare but thats rare especially for this court. Number two, as the former president noted, theres he noted it in an inaccurate way. But there is the giant question of immunity still looming before the court till we get any clues about tomorrow from what we read today. There was a paradox about today, the Supreme Court they were unanimous, which is in controversial cases unusual in this Supreme Court. However, there were some off justices there. You could just tell from the paper the opinions were written on the three the three justices didnt dissent. The three liberals, but they really went after the five for saying that forgiving a roadmap for how this law should be applied, instead of just saying, look, What Colorado was was it was wrong. Thats all we should have done. The most interesting opinion was from Amy Coney Barrett, who wrote an opinion agreeing with the three liberals, but saying, can everyone please chill out, saying, can we just like we have a controversial election coming up . Lets not engage in stridency, as she said, i agree with jeff, theres some heated rhetoric in the concurrence, meaning the opinion put out by the three liberals. But i think its important to understand just exactly where the disagreement sits because its really not much of a disagreement when you dig into it. Okay. All nine agreed unanimously. This is not for the state its the difference is the five and the majority said, congress is in charge of this. And the other four said, well, maybe congress, but maybe other federal authorities, not even clear what that is, but thats the entire base. Ada is a sliver of a disagreement, yet it gets blown up into this almost like world war three, kind of disagreement which i think is just doesnt match what the actual substantive disagreement. So as you jump, let me read a little bit here this is i believe Amy Coney Barrett writings on the court should turn the National Temperature down, not up for present purposes are differences are far less important than our unanimity all nine justices agree or the outcome of this case that is the message americans should take home. As jeff said, shes trying not legal language, but i liked it. Chill. Everybody. Chill. The question is though what youre looking at this decision about colorado, does it tell us anything even though shes trying to say we should all get along. But did they give you any clues about how theyre going to deal with immunity . I think it does potentially i think that Amy Coney Barretts concurrence was trying to say this is not such a big deal here, right . We dont need to make such a big fuss about the disagreements here. And i think that the liberal justices were saying no, no, theres actually a lot at stake here one is that with respect to troponin disqualification, theres actually a lot of significance to what the majority goes ahead and reaches that they didnt need to hear there really foreclosing other avenues of adjudicating through Federal Courts whether or not donald trump engaged in insurrection. And they talk about, for example, somebody who is in some way aggrieved by an action taken by him as an Executive Officer could bring suit to argue in Federal Court that he was disqualified under Section Three of the 14th amendment. So theyre angry that the court is precluding that kind of alternative federal adjudication of his ineligibility on the looming immunity point. Theres sort of methodological question here of should courts go ahead and reach unnecessary questions or should they narrowly decide . The case before them . What i read into that disagreement is what they expect could happen in the Immunity Case. In other words, a narrow decision on immunity might hold. There is no immunity for the allegations in this indictment, and we dont have to reach anything further, but a broader holding might be under this standard that were going to set forth here today for the first time. A president could be immune from prosecution . And now were going to send it back to the lower courts to apply that standard to the facts here, and that would lengthen the proceedings on the Immunity Question such that we would never get to trial before the electorate. Remember what just happened in the Supreme Court. They just granted certiorari on the Immunity Case and theyve put the case its on i would say a fairly slow schedule which will not quite, but almost guarantee that donald trump will not be tried before the election. It is not out of the question that the three liberal justices were off about that. And i think some of the language you saw, the anger on what is as you would set a relatively minor disagreement suggests that the court is as polarized as it usually is, even in a unanimous. And so again, thats what fascinates me. Its the nonlawyer at the table that liberals are outnumbered. They know that its six to three. There are numbered. So when you see Amy Coney Barrett the last trump appointee coming in and saying, lets all try to get along here. The question is number one, do they take it as january and the colleagues or they take it as more of a political argument. But youre always watching robert saved obamacare. Yeah, wheres roberts is going to be . Thats what everyone always asks first. But what about the trump justices . Are we learning anything about her . Is she trying to be more Sandra Day Oconnor . Or can you figure that out . I i feel like its not going to get better in terms of how theyre all getting along. I mean, its just hard math, its 63. And if youre on the liberal side and you want to win, you need to flip to, you need roberts plus one and i, we havent seen that. What weve seen it happening in some cases, but none of the big political cases. And immunity, i really think could be a defining moment here. And i think jessica is right. I think we need to watch out for the possibility that they dont even decide it that they send it back down to the trial court, which will completely end any chance of trying it that if they do that is the biggest gift they could give donald trump. Lets, lets be clear about that than anything other than a clear victory for jack smith and the Department Of Justice is a victory for donald trump, even if they say theres no absolute immunity is trump is asking for clarity. You want clarity. I just want to follow the news geoff, and elie honig. Kara. Thank for your time today. Some of the former president s griping that you heard the top of the program about what he calls rogue judges. I may have been about his two new york cases, the civil fraud case. He lost the upcoming criminal trial later this month, there were new developments connected to both today through the trump organizations, former top finance guy Allen Weisselberg and his former attorney, Michael Cohen. Cnns Kara Scannell has been following all of those developments and joins us now, kara, what are we learn today . Alan weisberg, longtime confidant of donald trump, pleaded guilty to two Felony Counts of perjury. This all relates to testimony he gave during the new York Attorney generals civil Fraud Investigation into the trump organization. And when he testified at the trial last year, it has false statements relate to testimony about the size of trumps Trip Flex Apartment at trump tower. It had been valid for years on the companys Financial Statements as though it was 30,000 square feet. In reality, it was just under 11,000 square feet. One of the statements that weisselberg admitted today that being false was he was asked at the trial and in his deposition whether hed been present when donald trump talked about the size of the apartment he said he hadnt. In reality, he had been he was present when trump was talking to reporters from Forbes Magazine about that. So well, weisselberg, under this deal will serve about five months at rikers island. This will be his second trip there because they already served 100 days when he pled guilty in 2022 to 15 counts of tax fraud. Now important though, as part of this deal, despite pressure from the das office, weisselberg is not cooperating against donald trump, so he will not be testifying at the trial later this month involving those hush money payments, despite being at the center of it, both with knowledge of Michael Cohen advancing the payment to Stormy Daniels and then the reimbursement of that money to come on. John as that plays out, the former president s legal team is again going after the manhattan da, alvin bragg. What does that about what they say . Yeah. I mean, this has been a constant point of scrutiny that theyve been putting on bragg saying that this is prosecutorial misconduct, saying that hes essentially picking on Allen Weisselberg, but not looking at the testimony that Michael Cohen had given, both at the trial lets same trial, and in other Court Hearing saying that he should be prosecuted, this has come up before prosecutors have said that that is fair game for cross by trumps attorneys at the trial. And that trial that Jury Selection is expected to begin three weeks from today. John, three weeks from today, Kara Scannell, appreciate those important updates up next. Now that the Supreme Court has taken the Ballot Access thats off the table. Well look closer at the campaign itself, some troubling new polling for the incumbent president and how tomorrow Super Tuesday primaries could come close to clinching the Delegate Math for donald trump. And later, you dont want to ms this our david culver inside haiti, torn by Gang Violence and now under a State Of Emergency her name right in the middle of this three here is two things a young man cowboys blow against against as alice down ive got back to my roots. Weve come from a long lab with cow my grandfather, my great grandfather, my arent being rode horses when i see all of us at illinois raised i see how far our legacy could go. The ladies have been doing a lot of talking recently. She looks great. What they dont know is i got inspire i Sleep Apnea Treatment that works inside my body. I feel refreshed because im not struggling with the pap anymore. Hundred books. She got worked great sleep at the click of a button to him. I got an implant. She relaxed its inspire. 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Vegas, The Story Of Sin City next sunday at ten on cnn the break Supreme Court ruling today, Super Tuesday is tomorrow. The state of the Union Address thursday night. Yes. Its the first week of march, early in the primary season, but the path of those primaries so far plus some new polling over the weekend and into this new week are turning the conversation already more and more to the likelihood of a biden trump fall the match, lets look at where we are and then some of the numbers. Number one, some contests over the weekend as well, not have the former president at 247 delegates takes 1,200 plus 1,215 to win, but he is on a path right there. You see the light gray states. Those are all the Super Tuesday states tomorrow, a lot more primaries. Thatll trump cant mathematically clinch tomorrow, but he can get really close by the end of tomorrow night if he continues his its big run. The democrats also are voting. Let me just bring this up here and show this as well. You bring up the democratic side of this and Super Tuesday with flip it over here to the primaries like this President Biden 206 to uncommitted delegates so far he is also on a path to renomination and well get very close tomorrow night as all those delegates come in, which brings in now, where are we assuming trump . But biden continue their path to the nomination. Where are this is our cnn poll of polls. Forgive me for turning my back. I just want to bring this up a little larger, 48 for trump, 46 for biden. That is no clear leader. If you look at some of the late individual polls that go into this average, trump has been running a little bit stronger, but if you average them all together, which is the smart thing to do, dont overinvest in any one poll. No clear leader. But trump has clearly been gaining a little bit of steam as we go forward. Why is he gaining steam while these are the numbers that are troubling for the president. Heres one from the new, New York Times Sienna College poll. Is President Biden too old to be an effective president among all voters, 73 say yes, 25 say no heres the troubling part, even in his own party, president Needs Big Democratic turnout in the fall, more than half, 56 of democrats say they think hes too old to be an effective president. 43 say no, so that is one challenge for the president as he runs out the primary season, as he gives that big speech. Thursday night address that the problems are deeper for the president. Again, he is the incumbent president 24 of americans say the countries on the right track, twothirds, twothirds. Say it is not 65 , say the country is the wrong track, is the president prepares to deliver his state of the Union Address. One more incumbents are often judged by their approval rating. You start to get eight months out from an election. Thats a problem. Thats a problem thats the number the president has thats the change. 36 approve of his performance right now in office, 61 disapprove. That means a lot of democrats, if 61 disapprove that means democrats as well. So lets have a conversation about where we are in the primary calendar state of the union and beyond. Lets bring in our cnn political commentators van jones and margaret hoover, also joining us, the former democratic president ial candidate, Democratic National Committee Chairman the governor or vermont howard dean, governor, i want to start with you. You know what its like to give a state of state address. You know, the president s weaknesses and you understand campaigns. What does the president , if you could tell the president to do one thing right now, whether its addressed the age issue or the wrong track issue, what would you do . I joke about the age issue and i talk about his unbelievable record, this is a guy whos got the strongest Domestic Policy Records since Lyndon Johnson and ironically, most of the jobs hes created are going to the very states in the rural states that vote against him, which is insane to me i think he just has to do doing very good job and give a very good speech in these more than capable of doing that. So van, lets follow up on the governor. If you look deeply into the New York Timessiena college poll, heres one of the things you look at a politician. So what am i getting here, right . We live in a transactional world, right . So 40 of registered voters said trumps policies helped them personally. Only 18 say bidens policies helped them personally. Governor dean just said hes got the greatest records since Lyndon Johnson why the disconnect . Very simple. Those covid, checks. People remember that i actually got the money directly and so thats that becomes a part of peoples memory and also people forgot a whole bunch of the bad things that happened during the trump years because covid was difficult and inflation was difficult. Now that starting to heal, but people still have that memory of those those cockpit checks. Look, i think biden has an important job to do not only to talk about his great record as governor said, but what hes gonna do Going Forward the prices are coming down, everything but food and housing so hes got to show hes willing to fight on the food prices, got to fight the grocers told him to quit, gouge the American People at the cash register. Hes got a push on the fair to get these Housing Prices down, to get the Interest Rates down, it actually is going to be fighting for what ordinary people were dealing with every day. And then didnt get back in his fight. Well, we count the votes short. I trump cant clench, but he can get really close yet, if you look at some of the past states. So its the glass three quarters full or onequarter empty, i guess i would ask you to mickey haley keeps getting 20 , 30 , 40 . Is that what youre looking for . Can there is the president addressing his week . This is the former president addressing his weaknesses. Haley keeps addressing Donald Trumps vegas as much to his own chagrin and look, shes clearly made some kind of a calculation with her campaign about what staying competitive means, both to her internally and then to her donors. Because frankly, this is literally a question of whether that staying competitive question is salient for the people who continue to fund the campaign to go beyond Super Tuesday to the next round of states and beyond and beyond. And how, how far, how much does she have to win tomorrow in order for them to continue to fund this effort that while im fully supportive, but the republican alternative to donald trump has always felt somewhat implausible and has always rested on some kind of strategy that wasnt clear beyond a hope and prayer. Right . What shes back in South Carolina tomorrow, the expectation is if she doesnt have a surprise when a couple of states that she will say enough, is that your expectation . That that is not my hope, but im im living on open a prayer. But that may be made see what happens, governor dean euro, grassroots guy, you like to go out and work the streets. Youd like to organize, you get things going. So i want your perspective. You talked about joke about the age, talk about your accomplishments. Ive been traveling a lot and i think you have a point about some of the policies, but the thing that strikes me is the Visibility Issue a lot of people think where is the precedent . Why hasnt he been out more youre still in touch with people around the country who as you, when youre organizing days, both as a candidate of the dnc, how much of it is that the people want to see an energetic president in their state in their community, or how much of it is he just needs to better explain what got the congress to pass a couple of years because this is the frustrating part. This is where ill read docs to blame the media. The media is fascinated with donald trump. They created donald trump and they cant stay away from because they want the clicks, no matter what the clicks and this is, im not just talking about television, im talking about the New York Times look at their coverage of trump. Its an outrage every day and his people love it. The truth is, biden has been all over the place and he just doesnt get the same coverage because hes not a charlatan and an entertainer and a crook and all the things that people like to write about it is really, really frustrating. And the other part of course on social media, theres no editors. So the more clicks, more coverage, and it doesnt matter what the clicks are about. So thats the frustrating part about this bidens a quality guy and hes performed very, very well hes not getting the credit for it because trump understands entertainment and biden does it and the media is false for it every time. And so to the American People, theres a lot of americans out there who have no idea what the biden has accomplished and they have a lot of ideas about trump, most of which are wrong. You agree with that, youre also an organizer guy. I talked to you when ive come back to some of my trips now, go doorknocking in milwaukee and you have a 70 somethingyearold black woman say, i may not vote because i dont think it matters anymore. Who specifically asked where its the precedent . Yeah. Look, i need a little bit different from the governor in that first of all this gaza thing is weighing him down. He does a part of that. Those numbers that you see our young people people, especially theyre just dismayed by what theyre seeing in gaza. Thats real. I also think he hasnt done as many interviews. I certainly governor is correct that hes been out there more than it gets credit for, but hes done fewer interviews and you would expect for a president. And i think those things hurt him. I think he can turn it around, i think right now, a lot of democrats are in denial and hes even going to be our nominee. But once i think its clear that he is there going to go from being in denial to being determined that trump not win, but right now, this is real and i think i think youve got deal with it. So if they incumbent president , President Biden has to deal with the tried to bring Younger Voters back, tried to get the base rallied up. Another big target would obviously be anybody voted for nikki haley in the primary. Is that what you would do if youre working the Biden Campaign . Take all your money and resources and say, okay, 40 of them are not going to vote for joe biden. But if you can get if in a state like new hampshire, a state like pennsylvania, you can give three or 4 of them bingo especially if youre running on democracy in defending democracy, dont want the broadest possible coalition of voters to join, join with you. And thats disaffected republicans of which theres at least a good 25 , perhaps a third, by the way. And thats just the primaries wait until we get to the governor respectfully, as weve been spending a lot of time on donald trump. Well, you just wait until this is really at two candidate race. I think the scrutiny will come with donald trump in an all new way that actually will probably play unfavorably for donald trump. I will just say one more thing. This sienna polls shows that unquestionably the Republican Party is not picking a winner if they picked donald trump because it is fundamentally clear that if nikki haley with republican candidate, she would be able to beat donald trump or whoever the democratic candidate were. You also see, ill give the governor this point that we focus. Hes the incumbent president , so we focus more on the bad number lets for him, theres a bad numbers for donald trump in that pause while youre absolutely right about that. Van jones, margaret hoover, governor dean, appreciate your time tonight. Coming up. Well continue this conversation and dive into an extended newly released interview. President biden granted the new yorker, the reporter evan osnos joins us to explain why the president believes only he can beat donald trump were here to get your side of the store. Why do we keep ending up here . You cant write this stuff United States of scandal with jake tapper next sunday night on cnn. Crap. 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For butterfly shrimp, for the god at are live. Looks what do i see in peter dixon . I see my husband. The father of our girls. I see a public servant. A man who served under secretary clinton in the State Department. Where he took on the epidemic of violence against women in the congo. I see a fighter, a tenacious problemsolver. Who will go to congress and protect Abortion Rights and our democracy. Because he sees a Better Future for all of us. Im peter dixon and i democrats agree. Approved this message. Conservative republican steve garvey is the wrong choice for the senate. Our republican opponent here on this stage has voted for donald trump twice. Mr. Garvey, you voted for him twice. As your own man, what is your decision . Garvey is wrong for california. But garveys surging in the polls. Fox news says garvey would be a boost to republican control of the senate. Stop garvey. Adam schiff for senate. Im adam schiff, and i approve this message. Deep penetrating relief, absorbing junior pro, nothing numbs pain, more. Closed captioning brought to you by mesobook. Com mesothelial mom, its all we do with local offices throughout the country on just how you get the compensation, you deserve, 800 to eight to 44, 44 President Biden says hes about to prove all of a snarky pundits and all the democratic handwringing is wrong. Again, in an interview with the new yorker, the president takes a defiant tone and says he is in the 2024 race because he believes he is best positioned to beat the former President Donald Trump biden spoke with reporter evan osnos, whos Written A Biography Of The 46th president that interview taking place in mid the article, joe bidens last campaign is a wide ranging interview that also covers the president s opinions on the Economy Israel and ukraine, and more. This is how osnos describes their conversation about the november election and concerns among democrats about bidens viability, quote, given the doubts, i asked, wasnt it a risk to say, im the one to do it . He shook his head and said no, im the only one who has ever beat him. And ill beat him again for biden, the offense of the contested election was clearly personal. Joining me now, evan osnos, in addition to that biography of the president is latest book is on the deep divisions here in the United States is titled wildland, the making of americas fury. Evan, grateful for your time. I want to get to some of the specifics in a minute, but not everybody gets to spend a lot of time with the president around the oval office. So you had that unique access. You also have spent a lot of time with him over the years. Then youre back with him after not seeing him for a while for Something Like this. What just jumped data, you being in the presence of him, how is he different physically . How is he different temperamentally, and how pumped was he on this question of he says, i can beat him again yeah. What struck me, john, one of the first things he did when i got there to the oval office was he said, let me show you where donald trump sat and watched the revolution that was his term to describe the events of june january 6, he walked me over to the oval Office Dining room, which is back in the private chambers there, which of course is where the select Committee Says that donald trump spent that afternoon. What the reason i mentioned that is one of the first things he did was he wanted in his own way, he was thinking about donald trump. You cannot talk about joe biden, right now and his State Of Mind and without thinking about trump, look on a physical level, he is slower. It is movements and gestures. No question about it. His mind seemed unchanged to me. He didnt bungle a date or a name or anything like that. I was looking to see any signs of that. What struck me most of all, john, was that he was in a defiant State Of Mind. He is in some ways hes looking to make a case for himself now the point you made is actually instructive if you read the entire article and i urge people to in detail, just going to be the president. You have a wide ranging conversation with democratic strategist and other experts around there. You talk about the first thing he did is show you where donald trump watched january 6, so they believe democracy, trump and democracy trump and democracy trump and tomography. Thats what they believe inside the white house. Your article went to print before this latest New York Times sienna poll, but youve seen the polling. The president s Job Performance is way underwater views on the economy, right track, wrong track are very bad for an incumbent president. So how does what he says . Square with those numbers . Or does he just think theyre not real on some level, there is a lot of suspicion in the white house about polling. I think there is a feeling that over the last few years, even going back to 2016, that polls have shown themselves to be unreliable partly in the age of the cell phone, look, it tends to be that candidates who are not leading in the polls tend to question the polls. There is more specificity to their concerns. Jen omalley dillon, who is an influential aid around the president working for the campaign. She says, we dont believe that these favorability polls line up exactly with what people actually do in the ballot box. Look, thats a controversial statement, john, you know, some democrats will disagree with that. Some will agree with it. The whats interesting is that thats what they believed. If youre trying to understand their strategy, thats one of the insights that gives you a feel for why they are not more ruffled than other democrats, maybe over the years, he has bristled and his team has bristles that the idea that, joe biden is not a president ial contender, and he did lose twice, but then he wants so when they hear a lot of this, they call it bedwetting, they call it people who dont understand them and their team. I want to focus on the president specifically because its very rare for somebody to get extended time as you did with the president hes aware of what people are saying about him. What did he tell you you know, interestingly, john, theres a kind of deepseated element of joe biden that runs all the way back to his childhood, which is that he feels like he has always been out to try to prove the doubters wrong. We sometimes talk about his stutter you cannot understand this guy without but understanding how much that is an imprint on everything he does in politics even today. At the age of 81, that he is alert to the sense that he has defined the predictions more than once and then more recently defied them in 2020. Divide them in 22, i should say in the midterms when democrats outperformed in 23, theres an edge to him, john, honestly, that was one of the things that really struck me. He is over the years there was a kind of a jolly quality about joe biden. There were moments of that still there, but there is a sense of conviction that he is doing something that is very personal for him. This is partly, we sometimes say that donald trump stole the election. He stole from donald from jet, from joe biden. I should say. I mean, that is really on some level, one of the elements that is going on in the background and joe biden is not somebody who wants to be pushed aside. That is very clear feeling and it is very present in his conversation. You mentioned january 6 and the president using the term revolution. What our president s well, how did, how did he articulate his biggest concerns and the case he wants to make against trump yeah, i have to tell you one thing that was very striking to me was he said, i am prepared for the fact that this man is going to contest this result. He said losers who lose are never grateful, are never graceful when theyre losing. That is a big idea, meaning that he is prepared for the idea that we could have somebody contested think the election in 24 as we did in 20, i think its worth pausing on just considering the full implications of that. Hes going to be making this case to americans over the course of the next several months, there is a deep feeling among his advisers that the offense of january 6, that on some level, it is still something that deeply collide i adds with our sense of what it means to be in American Politics that we dont do violence in politics, and that he thinks that as we get closer to election day, that idea will take on greater and greater salience significance in peoples minds. Thats a political bet. Its a part of a message and its revealing to us to know that thats one of the things that they believe is significant. Evan osnos appreciate its a fascinating interview and a greater broader piece there. Nice to keep that as you watch the next several months play out, well see if the baseline the president lays out. So stands the test of time having thanks for your time tonight. Just ahead for us inside the Gang Violence that is now consuming haiti, which just declared a State Of Emergency. Cnns david culver has been on the ground there joins us next saudi awkward question is youre going to be anything left, leftover. Oh, absolutely my kids dont know what they want. You know, who knows what she wants . I want to massage in a multi from someone named john carlos and i didnt live in that shoe box for years, not just within power. We get all of our financial questions answered so you dont have to worry yes. Look at the caviar just give me join 18 million americans and take control of your financial future with a realtime dashboard in real life conversations, empower whats next, what if all i do for my type two diabetes isnt enough . Or what is once. Weekly mounjaro could help. Mounjaro helps your body regulate blood sugar and can help you eat less food. Three out of four people stem a1c of less than 7 plus people lost up to 25 pounds. 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Arena unlimited 1. 5 cashback on every purchase for the chase, inc. Business card, make more of whats yours . Im eva mckend in vermont and this is cnn State Department told cnn today that the us embassy in haiti remains open a day after the State Of Emergency was declared, that State Of Emergency declared when thousands of inmates escaped from haitis largest prison. Meantime, protestors have demanded the ouster strip, the Prime Minister ariel henry, who reneged on elections in the wake of the precedents assassination more than twoandahalf years ago, Prime Ministers whereabouts are uncertain. Cnns david culver is just back from haiti and has this harrowing report so were like a block away yeah. Its as close as we can get driving. So we layer up and walk oh yeah you can already smell it wow. Look at people just still making their commute at tires are pretty right in the middle of his street here no police barricade, know firefighters, most seemingly unfazed these flames have been burning for several hours. Haiti has been engulfed in turmoil for years we dont have according to my band, we dont have food to eat. Thats what theyre shouting. Many here now fear their country is on the brink of exploding feel safe right now. No, no no it my god, is broken right now. These folks blame the current government and Prime Minister ariel henry, appointed to follow. We need he has asked a nation of president Jovenel Moise in 2021. They want henri to go, but he says hes not yet ready to step down this as panic streets, shootouts like this one have become a near daily occurrence. Its often a clash between police and the gangs, which have essentially taken haiti hostage they flaunt their weapons and wealth on tiktok, threatening police and basket and lawlessness many residents now living behind me barricades this is not the gangs doing this. The folks that live in these neighborhoods who are putting these up to prevent gangs from coming in and kidnapping using whatever might stop or slow the kidnappers efforts to protect families and preserve innocence. That innocence shattered for others, this 14 yearold says he was recruited by a gang at 11. It tells me hes often forced to burn the bodies of those killed by other gang members. Lunch want to change my way of life. He said because with a heavy look of shame, at an Early Morning food distribution, we meet dozens of women who have felt the wrath of Gang Violence at times, we know notice a lost stare in their eyes all of them had been so theres nobody here was not going this woman sister shot and killed . Killed this ones husband, earned alive inside their home. This woman tells us she was raped. She shows us the marks left behind. In recent months its gangs have seized more and more control over this country, including the roads leading to portauprince. Officials estimate that gangs now control as much as 80 of the capital but even the us embassy and International Airport are mostly surrounded by rival gang territories. Its led the Haitian National police to create an undercover unit we go with them to the front lines. This unit actually goes into gang areas, looks for gang members and fights them the officers asked us not to reveal our exact location and they tell us to work quickly given were standing exposed on a windy hill side as police have described it to me, basically everything behind me is occupied by the gangs under their control their homes all around us. Were standing on the foundation of one home there have been abandoned they offered to drive as closer. And you can see theyre getting ready . Yes. Are drivers on geared up now ready for potential gunfire . That why stay away from the windows as we come in here, they described this as the last defensive point. And beyond here is what they consider to be there front line from here, you can see the battlefield signs of any suspected gang members for now police are not the only ones trying to gain the upper hand here. In a, fractured State Alternatives to the gangs and government surface were headed demeter commander of b sap haitis Armed Environmental Protection Agency that has splintered from the henry government, challenging its legitimacy we pull up to a gated compound, the man and the purple shirt leads us in. He then changes into his be samp uniform its the commander. Hes in hiding from police. His message echoes the antigovernment protester put them evaulate, show he flexes be sap Strength In Numbers and its potential to help bring stability but when it comes to his own family you mentioned you have four kids. What do you think . Their future is in this country . He fears their future is best served, leaving haiti. The desperation is felt beyond portauprince places like jeremy the un chopper is the safest way to get there. Its about an hour ride members of the World Food Programme take us through this rural Coastal Community devastated by recent protests right back there, you had to, five people were killed last week, right there. It was right there. Yeah. Yeah. We arrive at this agricultural consortium, the wfp buys food from these local farmers to then handout but the recent protests have blocked distribution efforts, leaving some food despoil. Its frustrating for the wfp officials as they know. You dont have to look far to find hunger here. These farmers pointing to their stomachs, lifting their shirts to us. Hungry a lot of folks will look at haiti and theyll say, its had issues for so long. The question that no doubt people in the us will ask is, well why should we help . While there are two reasons why you need to l . First of all, there are on humanitarian grounds. But then theres also her only selfinterest in the us. So the longer you wait to act on haiti the more migrants there will be on our southern border . Its that simple. Many here search for normalcy, where they can even with the threat of violence, missing mass for some, is not an option. They wear their sunday best and unite in prayer places of worship are not immune from gang terror. They at least off for a moment of tranquility and hope for Now David Culver joining us out sad, sad, but fascinating reporting david, how to haitians feel about the question of International Intervention . Is it clear what form that might could take in the shortterm so in the immediacy, john, its likely to look like 1,000 Kenyan Police officers. It would be deployed it any day now to haiti. And we know late last week Prime Minister andre was in kenya and he signed that agreement. But that is part of what fueled this most recent outbreak and has the seen this surge in violence really get out of control . The folks on the ground that we spoke with, they dont want afford force there. In fact, a lot of them would come up to us angry that the us, canada, france are supporting these multiNational Security forces with finances. Theyre not contributing troops, but they say even contributing the funding is something that they dont want to see. Instead, they hope to have the stability through elections. The question john is how do you create that stable climate without eradicating the gangs and then how do you eradicate the gangs without bringing in the forces to do that, it remains unknown and until now it looks like haiti, like that gentleman said, will be a broken and state. And its the folks on the ground, the people there that are paying the price, the price every single day. David culver appreciate that fascinating reporting up next for us, some Breaking News email, Text Messages revealed new details on the scope of the fake electors plot and how it continued . Yes. Even after january 6 introducing neds plaque psoriasis. He thinks is flaky red patches are all people see oh, tesla is the number so one prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. Oh, tesla can help you get clear skin and reduce itching and flaking with no routine blood tests required doctors have been prescribing. Oh, tesla for nearly a decade. Oh, tesla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. 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Even after the january 6 capitol attack, cnns zach cohen joins us with the details. So what was Kenneth Chesebro up . Two after after january 6 yeah. John, weve known that can chesebro is qualified as the architect of the fake electors plot and the lead up to january 6. But were now learning that he continued to beat that drum after the violence the us capitol on january 6. And i want to read this text message from him to that he sent to another trump lawyer from wisconsin two days after the us capitol riot. He says, the events of the last two days open up legal options. The states for winning rulings favorable to trump. He then goes on to say that maybe they could revisit some of the past petitions that they were trying to use to overturn the 2020 election in trumps favor. It then pitches of a variety of different ideas, ideas that would have gotten other people in legal hot water. And this runs counter to what hes told state prosecutor, shes interviewed in almost a dozen states now about his role in the fake electors plot. And his attorney described himself as Somebody Just trying to give legal advice to donald trump into the white house as they sought to legally challenge the outcome. We now know he was way more intimately involved and not just the leadup january 6, but in the days afterwards. So what else was revealed in these Text Messages and emails say about chesbros actions and whereabouts on january 6 yeah. John, i mean, of all the people that jack smith, the special counsel, has identified as trumps coconspirators and trying to overturn the 2020 election. Chesebro might be the only one who actually showed up to the us capitol on january 6. These Text Messages include hello, fees where he took selfies with conspiracy theorist alex jones at the us capitol on the same day that the riot happened. And look, even bragged at one point about being able to whiff tear gas that was fired at protesters in the us capitol in the day kind of highlighting his proximity to the action that was going on. So it really does call into question again, chesebro description of himself as just a lawyer trying to give legal advice to a president , trying to challenge the outcome, and maybe more as an activist and somebody who is really trying to push his own desires its own agenda through his role as a lawyer and what legal jeopardy does just that lawyer face right now . We know chesebro has already pled