Transcripts For CNNW Anderson 20240704

The Supreme Court today making it a reality and making history settling an issue thats been unclear since reconstruction. All nine justices deciding that neither colorado nor any other state can bar him under the 14th amendment, Section Three insurrection language quoting from the opinion, quote, we can clued that states may disqualify persons holding or attempting to hold state office, but states have no power under the constitution to enforce Section Three with respect to federal offices, especially the presidency. The opinion was per curiam, meaning not attributed to any specific justice however, in a concurrence that you might say reads more like a dissent justices sonia sotomayor, elena kagan, and Ketanji Brown jackson take issue with the rulings broadness, which they suggest is to quote, insulate this court and petitioner from future controversy. The petitioner, of course, being donald trump, asked for him he praised the ruling, then pivoted to the courts. Next big decision on president ial immunity when you make a decision, you dont want to have your opposing party or opponent, or even somebody that just thinks youre wrong, bring a criminal suit against you or any kind of assumed when you leave office, i have that right now at a level that nobodys ever weve seen before. I have Rogue Prosecutors and i have rogue judges have judges that are out of control. And its a very unfair thing for me. Keeping them honest. There is, of course, no evidence of Rogue Prosecutors or judges, no matter how many times he says that there are colorado secretary of state, Jenna Griswold also weighing in a bit earlier here on cnn first and foremost, im glad that they issued a decision colorado voters and American Voters all across the country deserve to know whether donald trump is qualified or not as we go into Super Tuesday but in terms of the bigger decision, im disappointed and i also think that the big concern is still there. Donald trump incited the insurrection in cited that violent mob onto the capitol to try to stop the peaceful transfer of president ial power. And he has not stopped his attacks on democracy since then. Joining us now, the michigan secretary of state, jocelyn benson, whose Supreme Court back in december, rejected an attempt to keep donald trump off the ballot. Madam secretary, grateful for your time, or you did file an amicus brief with the Supreme Court back in january, you took no position as to how the legal issue should be resolved, but you said for the good of democracy, the court should resolve them now and quote are you satisfied with todays opinion . You get clarity. Did you get what you wanted yes, i am. And thanks for having me. I we her in michigan and Election Officials all across the country are fully prepared to do our jobs this year which is making sure every citizen can vote and that were administering administrating full, free and fair elections. That continues. The clarity provided by the court is to affirm what i and the vast majority of my colleagues have also said since the beginning, which is that its inappropriate for any one state to weigh in and make a decisive position. Take a decisive position on such a thorny legal issue. It really is best left to the federal government and the Support Breen Court has affirmed that given us that clarity, so that any state or state courts still wrestling with a question of how to apply Section Three of the 14th amendment. Now has that clarity to declare Donald Trumps eligibility as a candidate in this election. Yet, you heard your colleague, your democratic colleague from colorado secretary of state, Jenna Griswold, telling wolf blitzer earlier tonight while she accepts the courts ruling, she Still Believes individual states should be able to disqualify a president ial candidate from the ballot if theyve deemed that candidate participated in an insurrection, do you agree with her . Ive been doing this a long time and one of the staples of almost 40 years of doing this is the secretary of state, the chief elections officials, whether youre a democratic republic looking from a midwestern state as you are the east coast for the west coast, most of them get along and focus on the mechanics of running a free and fair election. Is there a disagreement among your colleagues whether theyre democrats or republicans on this question . Again, i think the vast majority of my colleagues have taken the same position i have, which is that its inappropriate for a State Official to weigh in on this issue and today, the Supreme Court affirmed that position and said, indeed, in cases like this where the legal and factual issues are not straightforward, the constitution requires they be determined at the federal level, not at the state level. And then again, i think on all of this, we have to remember who has the ultimate authority, which is the voters in every state. That again was to me a firm today by giving voters the opportunity to weigh in on who they should hold politically accountable at the ballot box for the issues at stake in this years election, who did it surprise you or did you view it as smart or the justices party what did they did not directly address the question of whether donald trump actually engaged in insurrection on, in and around january 6. I was surprised. I was at the Oral Arguments as well and expected as i think many of us did for a lot of the discussion to be focused on the definition of insurrection, the facts in this case. But notably, the court said, look, there for lots of different issues at play, both legal and factual. And the question is really, who is the appropriate authority . What is the appropriate forum . And when is the appropriate time to make these determinations as a legal scholar and a former law dean, i know you have to determine those who and what and when law at the same time or perhaps before but you get to the substance of the case. And so i wasnt surprised at all by even the unanimity or the per curiam aspect of the decision today. And i was grateful because it showed by issuing it today before Super Tuesday, the court is aware of the importance of both clarity and timing in this case. And again, and making sure voters go into this Election Cycle with the clarity of their power to determine the future of our country in this upcoming election. Secretary beth, grateful for your time on this important day. Thank you so much with me now to continue the conversation, the bestselling Supreme Court biographer jeffrey toobin, our cnn senior legal analyst, elie honig, and cardozo law schools jessica roth. Jeff based on the Oral Arguments, not a shock. If you listen to the Oral Arguments, this is where the courts seem to be leaning that day so we always look for clues, right . Number one, there, unanimous. Thats rare, but thats rare especially for this court. Number two, as the former president noted, theres he noted it in an inaccurate way, but there is the giant question of immunity still looming for the co2. We get any clues about tomorrow from what we read today. There was a paradox about today at the Supreme Court. There were unanimous, which is in controversial cases, unusual in this Supreme Court. However, there were some off justices there. You could just tell from the paper the opinions were written on the three the three justices didnt dissent. The three liberals, but they really went after the five for saying that forgiving a roadmap for how this law should be applied, instead of just saying, look what colorado was was did was wrong. Thats all we should have done. The most interesting opinion was from amy coney barrett, who wrote an opinion agreeing with the three liberals, but saying, can everyone please chill out, saying, can we just like we have a controversial election coming up . Lets not engage in stridency, as she said, i agree with you if theres some heated rhetoric in the concurrence, meaning the opinion put out by the three liberals. But i think its important to understand just exactly where the disagreement sits because its really not much of a disagreement when you dig into it. Okay. All nine agreed unanimously. This is not for the states the difference is the five and the majority said, congress is in charge of this. And the other four said, well, maybe congress, but maybe other federal authorities, not even clear what that is, but thats the entire base as a sliver of a disagreement, yet it gets blown up into this almost like world war three, kind of disagreement, which i think its just doesnt match what the actual substantive disagreements as you jump, let me read a little bit here. This is i believe amy coney barrett, writings on the court should turn the National Temperature down, not up for present purposes are differences are far less important than our unanimity. All nine justices agree on the outcome of this case. That is the message to americans should take home so as jeff says, shes trying not legal language, but i liked it. Chill everybody. Chill. The question is though what youre looking at this decision about colorado, does it tell us anything even though shes trying to say we should all get along. But two, they give you any clues about how theyre going to deal with immunity. I think it does potentially, and i think that Amy Coney Barretts concurrence was trying to say this is not such a big deal here. Right . We dont need to make such a big fuss about the disagreements here. And i think that the liberal justices were saying no, no, theres actually a lot at stake here one is that with respect to trump and disqualification, theres actually a lot of significance to what the majority goes ahead and reaches that they didnt need to hear. Theyre really foreclosing other avenues of good to kading through Federal Courts, whether or not donald trump engaged in insurrection. And they talk about, for example, somebody who is in some way aggrieved by an action taken by him as an Executive Officer could bring suit to argue in Federal Court that he was disqualified under Section Three of the 14th amendment. So theyre angry that the court is precluding that kind of alternative federal adjudication of his ineligibility on the looming immunity point. Theres a sort of Methodological Question here. I should courts go ahead and reach unnecessary questions or should they narrowly decide the case before them . What i read into that disagreement is what they expect could happen in the immune and indeed case. In other words, a narrow decision on immunity might hold. There is no immunity for the allegations in this indictment, and we dont have to reach anything further, but a broader holding might be under this standard that were going to set forth here today for the first time, a president could be immune from prosecution. And now were going to send it back to the lower courts to apply that standard to the facts here, and that would lengthen the proceedings on the Immunity Question such that we would never get to trial before the electorate. Remember what just happened in the Supreme Court. They just granted certiorari on the Immunity Case and theyve put the case on, i would say a fairly slow schedule, which will not quite, but almost guaranteed that donald trump will not be tried before the election. It is not out of the question that the three liberal justices were off about that. And i think some of the language you saw, the anger on what is as you would set a relatively minor disagreement just that the court is as polarized as it usually is, even in a unanimous. And so again, thats what fascinates me as the nonlawyer at the table that liberals are outnumbered. They know that its six to three. There are numbered. So when you see amy coney barrett, the last trump appointee coming in and saying, lets all try to get along here. The question is, number one, do they take it as genuine . The call they take it as more of a political argument. But youre always watching robert saved obamacare. Yeah, wheres roberts is going to be . Thats what everyone always asks first. But what about the trump justices . Are we learning anything about her . Is she trying to be more Sandra Day Oconnor or can you figure that out . I i feel like its not going to get better in terms of how theyre all getting along. I mean, its just hard math, its sixthree and if youre on the liberal side and you want to win, you need to flip to, you need roberts plus one. And i, we havent seen that while weve seen it happening in some cases, but none of the big political cases and immunity, i really think could be a defining moment here. I think jessica is right. I think we need to watch out for the possibility that they dont even decide it that they send it back down to the trial court, which will completely end any chance of trying it, that if they do that is the biggest gift they could give donald trump. Lets, lets be clear about that than anything other than a clear victory for jack smith and the Department Of Justice is a victory for donald trump, even if they say theres no absolute immunity is trump is asking for clarity. You want clarity i just want to follow the news out to elie honig. Kara. Thank for your time today. Some of the former president s griping that you heard at the top of the program about what he calls rogue judges. I may have been about his two new york cases, the civil fraud case. He lost the upcoming criminal trial later this month, there were new developments connected to both today through the trump organizations, former top finance guy Allen Weisselberg and his former attorney, Michael Cohen. Cnns Kara Scannell has been following all of those developments and joins us now, kara, what do we learn today yeah, so alan weisberg, longtime confidant of donald trump, pleaded guilty to two Felony Counts of perjury. This relates to testimony he gave during the new York Attorney generals civil Fraud Investigation into the trump organization. And when he testified at the trial last year and has false statements relate to testimony about the size of trumps triplex apartment at trump tower. It had been valid for years on the companys Financial Statements as though it was 30,000 square feet reality, it was just under 11,000 square feet. One of the statements that weisselberg admitted today the being false was he was asked at the trial and in his deposition whether hed been present when donald trump talked about the size of the apartment, he said he hadnt. In reality, he had been he was present when trump was talking to reporters from Forbes Magazine about that so weisselberg, under this deal will serve about five months at rikers island. This will be his second trip there because they already served 100 days when he pled guilty in 2022 to 15 counts of tax fraud. Now importantly, though as part of this still despite pressure from the das office, weisselberg is not cooperating against donald trump, so he will not be tested to find at the trial later this month involving those hush money payments, despite being at the center of it, both with knowledge of Michael Cohen advancing the payment to Stormy Daniels and then the reimbursement of that money to come in, john, as that plays out, the former president s legal team is again going after the manhattan da, alvin bragg. What does that about what they say . Yeah in this has been a constant point of scrutiny that theyve been putting on bragg saying that this is prosecutorial misconduct, saying that he is essentially picking on Allen Weisselberg, but not looking at the testimony that Michael Cohen had given, both at the trial that same trial, and in other Court Hearing saying that he should be prosecuted, this has come up before prosecutors have said that that its fair game for cross by trumps attorneys at the trial. And that trial that Jury Selection is expected to begin three weeks from today. John, three weeks from today, Kara Scannell, appreciate those important updates up next now that the Supreme Court has taken the Ballot Access off the table, well look closer at the campaign itself, some troubling new polling for the incumbent president and how tomorrow Super Tuesday primaries could come close to clinching the Delegate Math for donald trump. And later, you dont wanna ms this our david culver inside haiti, torn by Gang Violence and now under a State Of Emergency, right in the middle of this three Super Tuesday coverage begins tonight at 06 00 p. M. On cnn and streaming on max. Hi, im chris and i lost 57 pounds angola go low, isnt complicated. I dont have to follow a restrictive diet and i dont have to spend a lot of time making meals using goal was truly transformative. It was easy and inexpensive you do this you, andy bad next Skill Professionals to get all your Home Projects done well, get started today. 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Its the first week of march, early in the primary season, but the path of those primaries so far plus some new polling over the weekend and into this new week, are turning the conversation already more and more to the likelihood of a biden trump fall. Rematch. Lets look at where where we are and then some of the numbers. Number one, some contests over the weekend as well. Now have the former president , 247 delegates takes 1,200 plus 1,215 to win, but he is on a path right there. You see the light gray states. Those are all the Super Tuesday states tomorrow, a lot more primaries. Thatll trump cant mathematically clinch tomorrow, but he can get really close by the end of tomorrow night. If he continues his big run, the democrats thats also are voting. Let me just bring this up here and show this as well. You bring up the democratic side of this and Super Tuesday with flip it over here to the primaries like this. President biden 206 to uncommitted delegates so far he is also on a path to renomination and well get very close tomorrow night as all those delegates come in, which brings in now, where are we assuming trump and biden continued . Their path to the nomination where are this is our cnn poll of polls. Forgive me for turning my back. I just want to bring this up a little larger, 48 for trump, 46 for biden. That is no clear leader. If you look at some of the late individual polls that go into this average, trump has been running a little bit stronger, but if you average them all together, which is the smart thing to do, dont overinvest in any one poll. No clear leader. But trump has clearly been gaining a little bit of steam as we go forward. Why is he gaining steam while these are the numbers that are troubling for the president. Heres one from the new, New York Times Sienna College poll. Is President Biden too old to be an effective president among all voters, 73 say yes, 25 say no. Heres the troubling part, even in his own party pretty president needs big democratic turnout in the fall, more than half, 56 of democrats say they think hes too old to be an effective president. 43 say no, so that is one challenge for the president as he runs out the primary season, as he gives that big speech. Thursday night address that the problems are deeper for the president. Again, he is the incumbent president 24 of americans say the countries on the right track twothirds, twothirds. Say it is not 65 , say the country is the wrong track, is the president prepares to deliver his state of the Union Address. One more incumbents are often judged by their approval rating. You start to get eight months out from an election. Thats a problem. Thats a problem thats the number the president has the change 36 approve of his performance right now in office, 61 disapprove. That means a lot of democrats, if 61 disapprove that means democrats as well. So lets have a conversation about where we are in the prac calendar state of the union and beyond. Lets bring in our cnn political commentators van jones and margaret hoover, also joining us. The former democratic president ial candidate, Democratic National Committee Chairman and the governor or vermont howard dean, governor, i want to start with you, you know what its like to give a stay, the state address, you know, the president s weaknesses and you understand campaigns. What does the president , if you could tell the president to do . One thing right now, whether its addressed the age issue or the wrong track issue, what would you do . I joke about the age issue and i talk about as unbelievable record, this is a guy whos got the strongest domestic policy record since Lyndon Johnson ironically, most of the jobs hes created are going to the very states in the rural states that vote against him, which is insane to me i think he just has to do doing very good job and give a very good speech and hes more than capable of doing that. So van lets follow up on the governor. If you look deeply into the New York Times Sienna College poll, heres one of the things you look at a politician. So what am i getting here, right . We live in a transactional world, right . So 40 of registered voters said trumps policies helped them personally. Only 18 say bidens policies helped them personally. Governor dean just said hes got the greatest records since Lyndon Johnson why the disconnect very simple. Those covid, checks. People remember that i actually got some money directly and so thats that becomes a part of peoples memory. And also people forgot a whole bunch of the bad things that happened during the trump years because covid was difficult and inflation was difficult. Now that starting to heal, but people still have that memory of those coefficients. Like i think biden has an important job to do not only to talk about his great record as governor said but what hes going to do Going Forward the prices are coming down, everything but food and housing so hes got to show hes willing to fight on the food prices, got to fight the grocery told him to quit, gouge the American People at the cash register. Hes got a push on the fair to get these Housing Prices down, to get the Interest Rates down, youve got show hes going to be fighting for what ordinary people are dealing with every day. And then didnt get back in his fight. Well, we count the votes tomorrow night. Trump cant clench, but he can get really close yet, if you look at some of the past states so its the glass three quarters full or onequarter empty, i guess i would ask if mickey haley keeps getting 20 , 30 , 40 is that what youre looking for . Is the president addressing his tweak. This is the former president dressing his weaknesses on. Nikki haley keeps addressing Donald Trumps take. He says, much to his own chagrin and look, shes clearly made some kind of a calculation with her campaign about what staying competitive means, both to her internally and then to our donors. Because frankly, this is literally a question of whether that staying competitive question is salient for the people who continue to fund the campaign to go beyond Super Tuesday to the next round, misstates and beyond and beyond. And how how far how much does she have to win tomorrow in order for them to continue to fund this effort that well, im fully supportive, but the republican alternative to donald trump has always felt somewhat implausible and has always rested on some kind of strategy that wasnt clear beyond a hope and prayer. But what shes back in South Carolina tomorrow, the expectation as if she doesnt have a surprise and when a couple of states that she will say enough, is that your expectation . That is not my hope, and im living on open a prayer but that maybe maybe what happens, governor de euro, grassroots guy, you like to go out and work the streets. Youd like to organize, you get things going. So i want your perspective. You talked about joke about the age, talk about your accomplishments. Ive been traveling a lot and i think you have a point about some of the policies, but the thing that strikes me is the visit the ability issue. A lot of people think where is the precedent why hasnt he been out more . Youre still in touch with people around the country who as you, when youre organizing days, both as a candidate of the dnc, how much of it is that the people want to see an energetic president in their state, in their community, or how much of it is he just needs to better explain what got the congress to pass a couple of years because this is the frustrating part. This is where ill redox to blame the media the media is fascinated with donald trump. They created donald trump and they cant stay away from because they want the clicks no matter what the clicks and this is, im not just talking about television, im talking about the New York Times. Look at their coverage of trump. Its an outrage every day and his people love it. The truth is, biden has been all over the place and he just doesnt get the same coverage because hes got a charlatan and an entertainer and a crook and all the things that people like to write about it is really, really frustrating. And the other part of course is on social media. Theres no editors so the more clicks more coverage and it doesnt matter what the clicks are about. So thats the frustrating part about this bidens a quality guy, and hes performed very, very well. Hes not getting the credit for it because trump understands entertainment and biden does it and the media is false for it every time. And so to the American People, theres lot of americans out there who have no idea what the biden has accomplished, and they have a lot of ideas about trump, most of which are wrong. You agree with that, youre also an organizer guy. I talked to you when ive come back to some of my trips and go doorknocking in milwaukee and you have a 70 somethingyearold black woman say, i may not vote . Yeah. Because i dont think it matters anymore. Who specifically . Thats where its the precedent. Yeah. Look, i see a little bit different from the governor in that first of all this gossip thing is weighing him down. He theres a part of that. Those numbers that you see, our young people, especially theyre just dismayed by what theyre seeing in gaza. Thats real. I also think he hasnt done as many interviews im the governor is correct. And hes been out there more than gets credit for, but hes done fewer interviews and you would expect for a president. And i think those things hurt him. I think he can turn around, i think right now, a lot of democrats are in denial that hes even going to be our nominee. But once i think its clear that he is there going to go from being in denial to being determined that trump not win. But right now, this is real and i think i think you got to deal with it. So if the incumbent president , President Biden has to deal with the tried to bring Younger Voters back, tried to get the base rallied up. Another big target would obviously be anybody about it for nikki haley at primary, is that what you would do if youre working the Biden Campaign . Absolutely. Take all your money and resources and say, okay, 40 of them are not going to vote for joe biden. But if you can get if in a state like new hampshire, a state like pennsylvania, you can give three or 4 of them bingo especially if youre running on democracy and defending democracy, dont want the broadest possible coalition of voters to join, join with you. And thats disaffected republicans of which theres at least a good 25 , perhaps a third, by the way. And thats just the primaries wait until we get to the governor respectfully says weve been spending a lot of time. Ill donald trump. Well, you just wait until this is a really at two candidate race. I think the scrutiny will come with donald trump at it in an all new way that actually will probably play unfavorably for donald trump. I will just say one more thing. This sienna poll shows that unquestionably the Republican Party is not picking a winner if they picked donald trump because it is fundamentally clear that if nikki haley with republican candidate, she would be able to beat donald trump or whoever the democratic candidate work. But you also say, ill give the governor this point that we focus. Hes the incumbent president , so we focus more on the bad numbers for him. Theres a bad numbers for donald trump in that post while youre absolutely right about that, van jones, margaret hoover, governor dean, appreciate your time tonight. Coming up. Well continue this conversation and dive into an extended newly released interview. President biden granted new yorker reporter evan osnos joins us to explain why the president believes only he can beat donald trump tonight lead to Super Tuesday, 16 races, one consequential day, and no one can breed. Do you like cnn in the best Political Team in the business . Super tuesday. Special coverage begins tonight at 06 00 p. M. On cnn and streaming on max. And Important Message for americans age 52, to 85 im like. Gosh, youre still using moms old coffee pot. Its my inheritance. Well, it is a Family Heirloom Know what the kids can just sell it to pay for my funeral. Its a good thing you have Life Insurance. Life insurance with our family history, dont you know about Colonial Penn . Its guaranteed acceptance, whole Life Insurance with no medical questions as im on a fixed income, who isnt you havent we all do. John maria and even paul with all of his medical problems, Colonial Penn, thats right. Colonial penn Life Insurance company. 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Biden spoke with reporter evan osnos, whos written a biography her feet of the 46th president that Interview Taking Place in midjanuary the article joe bidens last campaign is a wide ranging interview, but also covers the president s opinions on the economy, israel and ukraine, and more. This is how osnos describes their conversation about the november election and concerns among democrats about bidens viability, quote given the doubts i asked, wasnt it a risk to say . Im the one to do it . He shook his head and said no, im the only one who has ever beat him. And ill beat him again for biden the offense of the contested election was clearly personal. Joining me now, evan osnos, in addition to that biography of the president , his latest book is on the deep divisions here in the United States is titled wildland the making of americas fury. Evan, grateful for your time. I want to get some of the specifics in a minute, but not everybody gets to spend a lot of time with the president around the oval office. So you had that unique access. You also have spent a lot of time with him over the years. Then youre back with him after not seeing him for a while for Something Like this what just jumped out at you being in the presence of him . How is he different physically . The house he different temperamentally, and how pumped was he on this question of he says, i can beat him again. You what struck me, john, one of the first things he did when i got there to the oval office was he said, let me show you where donald trump sat and watched the revolution that was his term to describe the events of january 6, he walked me over to the oval Office Dining room, which is back in the private chambers there, which of course is where the select Committee Says that donald trump spent that afternoon. What the reason i mentioned that is one of the first things he did was he wanted in his own way, he was thinking about donald trump. You cannot talk about joe biden, right now and his State Of Mind without thinking about trump, look on a physical level he is slower. It is movements in his gestures. No question about it. His mind seem to to me. He didnt bungle a date or a name or anything like that. I was looking to see any signs of that. What struck me most of all, john, was that he was in a defiant State Of Mind. He is in some ways hes looking to make a case for himself now so the point you made is actually instructive. If you read the entire article and i urge people to detail, youre not just going to be the president , you have a wide ranging conversation with democratic strategists and other experts around there you talk about the first thing you did to show you where donald trump watch january 6 so they believe democracy, trump and Democracy Trump in Democracy Trump in tomography, thats what they believe inside the white house. Your article go into print before this latest New York Times sienna poll, but youve seen the polling that the president s Job Performance is way underwater views on the economy, right track, wrong track are very bad for an incumbent president. So how does what he says square with those numbers . Or does he just think theyre not real . On some level, there is a lot of suspicion in the white house about polling. I think there is a feeling that over the last few years, even going back to 2016, that polls have shown themselves to be unreliable partly in the age of the cell phone. Look, it tends to be candidates who are not leading in the polls tend to question the polls there is more for specificity to their concerns. Jen omalley dillon, who is an influential aid around the president working for the campaign. She says, we dont believe that these favorability polls line up exactly with what people actually do in the ballot box. Look, thats a controversial statement, john, you know, some democrats will disagree with that. Some will agree with it. The whats interesting is that thats what they believe if youre trying to understand their strategy, thats one of the insights that gives you a feel for why they are not more ruffled than other democrats, maybe over the years, he has bristled and his team has bristles that the idea that, you know, joe biden is not a president ial contender and you, he did lose twice, but then he won so when they hear a lot of this, they call it bedwetting, they call it people who dont understand them and their team. I want to focus on the president specifically because its very rare for somebody to get extended time as you did with the president. Hes aware of what people are saying about him. What did he tell you . You know, interestingly, john, theres a kind of deep seeded element of joe biden that runs all the way back to his childhood, which is that he feels like he has always been out to try to prove the doubters wrong. We sometimes talk about his stutter. You cannot understand this guy without understanding how much that is an imprint on everything he does in politics even today. At the age of 81, that he is alert to the sense that he has defied the predictions more than once and then more recently defied them in 2020, defied them in 22, i should say in the midterms when democrats outperformed, divide them in 23, and theres an edge to him, john, honestly, that was one of the things that it really struck me. He has over the years there was a kind of a jolly quality about joe biden. There were moments of that still there, but there is a sense of conviction that hes doing something that is very personal for him. This is partly, we sometimes say that donald trump stole the election. He stole it from donald from jet, from joe biden, i should say. I mean, that is really on some level, one of the elements that is going on in the background, and joe biden is not somebody who wants to be pushed aside. That is very clear feeling and it is very present in his conversation. You mentioned jake hey, there is sex and the president using the term revolution. What our president s how did, how did he articulate his biggest concerns and the case he wants to make against trump yeah, i have to tell you one thing that was very striking to me was he said, i am prepared for the fact that this man is going to contest this result. He said losers who lose are never grateful or never graceful when theyre losing. That is a big idea, meaning that he is prepared for the idea that we could have Somebody Contesting in the election in 24 as we did in 20, i think its worth pausing on just considering the full implications of that. Hes gonna be making this case to americans over the course of the next several months, there is a deep feeling among his advisers that the offense of january 6, that on some level, it is still something that deeply collide with our sense of what it means to be in American Politics that we dont do violence in politics, and that he thinks that as we get closer to election day, that idea will take on greater and greater salience significance in peoples mind. Thats a political bet. Its a part of a message. And its revealing to us to know that thats one of the things that they believe is significant. Evan osnos appreciate its a fascinating interview and a greater broader piece there. Nice to keep that as you watch the next several months play out, well see if the baseline the president lays out. So stands the test of time havent. Thanks for your time tonight. Just ahead for us inside the Gang Violence that is now consuming haiti, which just declared a State Of Emergency, cnns david culver i want to spend on the ground there joins us next with their Saudi Vegas Story Of Sin City next sunday at ten on cnn weve come from a long ladder. Cowboys when i see all was at illinois ranch, i see how far our legacy you can go theres something going around the gordon. Good thing, gertrude found delsam. How, whats going around is 12hour kfar leaf angela good the family that takes delta them together feels better together. He was only 47 aneurism. Did he have Life Insurance . Do you know youve got to get on it checkout, select quote, trust me, the peace of mind. Its worth and Life Insurance is too important to put off another day. Thats why select quote, makes getting covered. You need easily were less than 1 a day. Now get up to a 2,000,000 policy with no medical exam and sameday coverage is its like what. Com. 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Call 1800 to 081721. Now, State Department told cnn today that the us embassy in haiti remains open a day after a State Of Emergency was declared, that State Of Emergency declared when thousands of inmates escaped from haitis largest prison. Meantime, protestors have demanded the ouster of the Prime Minister ariel henry, who reneged on elections in the wake of the president s assassination more than twoandahalf years ago, Prime Ministers whereabouts are uncertain. Cnns david culver is just back from haiti and has this harrowing report so were like a block away. Yeah. Its as close as we can get driving. So we layer up and walk yeah already smell it wow, look at people still making there as tires are burning right in the middle of this street here no police barricade, know firefighters, most seemingly unfazed. These flames have been burning for several hours. Haiti has been engulfed in turmoil for years we dont have a home that might have and we dont have thats what theyre shouting. Many here now fear their country is on the brink of exploding. Feel safe right now. No, no no . Does it doesnt mccarthy is broken right now these folks blame the current government and Prime Minister ariel omri, appointed following the assassination of president Jovenel Moise in 2021. They want henri to go, but he says hes not yet ready to step down this as panicked streets, shootouts like this one have become a near daily occurrence. Its often a clash between police and the gangs, which have essentially taken haiti hostage which they flaunt their weapons and wealth on tiktok, threatening police and basking in lawlessness many residents now living behind barricades this is not the gangs doing this. The folks that live in these neighborhoods who are putting these up to prevent gangs from coming in and kidnapping using whatever might stop or slow the kidnappers. Efforts to protect families and preserve innocence. That innocence shattered for others, this 14yearold it says he was recruited by a gang at 11. Tells me hes often forced to burn the bodies of those killed by other gang members. Lunch. Want to change . My way of life. He says, with a heavy look of shame at an Early Morning food distribution, we need dozens of women who have felt the wrath of Gang Violence at times, we notice a lost stare in their eyes all of them had been. So theres nobody here was not going pick this woman sister shot and killed. This ones husband, burned alive inside their home. This woman tells us she was raped. She shows us the marks left behind in recent months, gangs have seized more and more control over this country, including the roads leading to portauprince. Officials estimate that gangs now control as much as 80 of the capital. Even the us embassy and International Airport are mostly surrounded by rival gang territories. Its led the Haitian National police to create an undercover unit we go with them to the front lines. This unit actually goes into gang areas, looks for gang members and by the officers asked us not to reveal our exact location. And they tell us to work quickly given were standing exposed on a windy hill side as police have described it to me, basically everything behind me is occupied by the gangs. Its under their control their homes all around us. Were standing on the foundation of one home there have been abandoned. They offered to drive as closer. And you can see theyre getting ready . Yes. Are drivers on geared up now ready for potential gunfire that are white . Stay away from the windows as we come in here. They described this as the last defensive point. And beyond here is what they consider to be there front lines from here, you can see the battlefield, no signs of any suspected gang members for now, police are not the only ones trying to gain the upper hand here in a fractured state, alternatives to the gangs and government surface were headed to meet a commander of b sap, haitis Armed Environmental Protection Agency that has splintered from the henry government challenging its legitimacy. We pull up to a gated compound, the man and the purple shirt leads us in event changes into his B Sample Uniform its the commander. Hes in hiding from police. His message echoes the antigovernment protester. Put a volley show. He flexes be sap strengthen numbers and its potential to help bring stability but when it comes to his own family you mentioned you have four kids. What do you think . Their future is in this country he fears their future is best served, leaving haiti the desperation is felt beyond portauprince in places like jeremy, the un chopper is the safest way to get there. Its about an hour ride members of the World Food Programme take us through this rural coastal community, devastated by recent protests. Right back there, you had to five people were killed last week right there. It was right there. Yeah. Yeah. We arrive at this agricultural consortium, the wfp buys food from these local farmers to then handout. But the recent protests have blocked Distribution Efforts even some food despoil its frustrating for the wfp officials as they know, you dont have to look far to find hunger here. These farmers pointing to their stomachs, lifting their shirts to us. We are hungry a lot of folks will look at haiti and theyll say its how to issues for so long. The question that no doubt people in the us will ask is, well, why should we help while there are two reasons why you need well, first of all, there on humanitarian grounds, but then theres also her only selfinterest in the us. So the longer you wait to act on haiti the, more migrants there will be on our southern border. Its that simple many here search for normalcy, where they cant even with the threat of violence missing mass for some is not an option they wear their sunday best unite in prayer places of worship are not immune from gang terror. They at least off for a moment of tranquility and hope for Now David Culver joining us out bad, sad, but fascinating reporting, david, how are haitians feel about the question of International Intervention . And is it clear what form that might could take in the shortterm . So in the immediacy, john, its likely to look like 1,000 Kenyan Police officers. It would be deployed any day now to haiti. And we know late last week, Prime Minister ariel henry was in kenya and he signed that agreement but that is part of what fueled this most recent outbreak and has the seen this surge in violence really get out of control . The folks on the ground that we spoke with they dont want afford force there in fact, a lot of them would come up to us angry that the us, canada, france are supporting these Multinational Security forces with finances. Theyre not contributing troops, but they say even contributing the funding is something that they dont want to see. Instead, they hoped to have the stability through elections. The question john is, how do you create that stable climate without eradicating the gangs and then how do you eradicate the gangs . Without bringing in the forces to do that, it remains unknown and until now it looks like haiti like that gentleman said, will be a broken state and its the folks on the ground, the people there that are paying the price rice every single day. David culver, appreciate that fascinating reporting up next for us, some Breaking News Email and Text Messages revealed a new details on the scope of the fake electors plot and how it continued . Yes. Even after january 6, what happened to the golden boy of new jersey, governor jim the i engaged in an adult consensual affair with another man. It was shot was it an instant attraction . Yeah greed these top fundraiser under investigation, he put it in lover, want to stay payroll or reasons immigrating resigned is a lot more common. Located and we remember did you want to be outed United States of scandal with jake tapper other give a therapy is if theyre having an interview with jake, new episode next sunday at nine on cnn. You should and do that and do you want angie, that i connected with Skill Professionals to get all your home . Thanks, well, you can focus on the important step. It may seem millions of ratings and reviews. So you can feel confident. 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We make money from ads, but they dont follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. Normal guy like me, ive given myself a small raise, join me at trying. Com. Im rafael romo, the Georgia State capitol in atlanta. This cnn some Breaking News now, Text Messages and emails made public as part of a lawsuit show that Kenneth Chesebro, the attorney who helped come up with the trump campaigns fake electors plot, kept proposing ways to overturn the 2020 election. Yes. Even after the january 6 capital attack, cnns zach cohen joins us with the details. So what was Kenneth Chesebro up to after after january 6 yeah. John, weve known that can chesebro is qualified as the architect of the fake electors plot and the lead up to january 6. But were now learning that he continued to beat that drum after the violence the us capitol on january 6 and want to read this text message from him to that he sent to another trump lawyer from wisconsin two days after the us capitol riot. He says, the events of the last two days open up legal options. The states for winning rulings favorable to trump. He then goes on to say that maybe they can revisit some of the past petitions that they were trying to use to overturn the 2020 election in trumps favor. He then pitches of a variety of different ideas, ideas that would have gotten other people and legal hot water. And this runs counter to what hes told State Prosecutors, hes interviewed in almost a dozen states now about his role in the fake electors plot. And he essentially described himself as Somebody Just trying to give legal advice to donald trump into the white house as they sought to legally challenge the outcome. We now know he was way more intimately involved and not just leadup january 6. But in the days afterwards. And so what else was revealed in these Text Messages and emails say about chesbros actions and whereabouts on january 6 yeah. John, i mean, of all the people that jack smith, the special counsel, has identified as trumps coconspirators and trying to overturn the 2020 election chesebro might be the only one who actually showed up to the us capitol on january 6. These Text Messages include selfies, where he took selfies with conspiracy theorist alex jones at the us capitol on the same day that the riot happened. And look, even bragged at one point about being able to whiff tear gas that was fired at protesters in the Us Capitol On The De Highlighting his proximity to the action that was going on. So it really does call into question again, chesebro description of themselves as just a lawyer trying to give legal advice to president , trying to challenge the outcome, and maybe more as an activist and somebody who is really trying to push his own desires, its own gender through his role as a lawyer. And what legal jeopardy does just that lawyer face right now, as we know, chesebro has already pled guilty in georgia, where the fani willis, the da there is investigating efforts to overturn the election results. Hes an Unindicted Coconspirator in jack smiths indictment of donald trump. Im told that the feds, the federal investigators i have not reached back out to chesebro since he informed them whos Gonna Take A Plea Deal in georgia, hes interviewed with again by about five different State Prosecutors in his time since taking a plea deal. So ramp to see, but lying to State Prosecutors or not being fully truthful with State Prosecutors can be a problem. Learning