Russia is doing in terms of influence efforts in the United States trying to sow division that are already apparent in the us evidence that they tried to influence and maybe interfere in the elections. Terrific to have you here, kylie. Thank you so much for sharing this breaking news reporting. Weve got major new developments. Lets get right to them developing news for you this morning, donald trump just arrived at court, were watching that hallway for you to see if hes got anything to say today before critical testimony gets back underway . In historic Hush Money Trial this hour, the former publisher of the enquirer, david pecker, back on the stand under crossexamination as the defense tries to know formalized conversations, pecker told the jury about that involve trump, Stormy Daniels, and efforts to catch their stories and kill them because they were unflattering to donald trump cnns beringia and grasses live outside of court. As we wait to see if donald trump has anything to say. He has been speaking quite a bit before court brin were not the only ones listening to what hes saying. The judge and the prosecutors are definitely honing in on what hes saying because theres this issue of the gag order and whether or not he has violated it yet. Again what can you tell us where that is . Were expecting here anything today on the gag order . You know, we dont know we dont know when a judge is going to rule on those previous violations that the prosecution is alleging trump had. But we know it says here they are listening, right. Because at the very beginning of court yesterday, they brought up for more examples of what they say trump violated that gag order. One of them actually included an exchange that he had with our own Kristen Holmes outside of trump tower. I want you to take a listen to what he said. There a lot of david pecker testimony so far one last time just been very nice and hes been davids been very nice and nice. So you can see there he called david pecker who has been on the stand all this week. A nice guy the prosecution says that saying that is really a kind of signaling to a witness on the stand and that, you know, its possible that hell do that again with another person that takes the stand. So thats just one of the examples they brought up yesterday. There were three more and now the judge has set a new Gag Order Hearing in for next thursday to deal with these four new examples. So well see if we get any ruling about the ten prior ones today or does that get pushed back to next thursday when this do gag order is set, so were not sure, sarah, but certainly less than one court does get underway if the judge doesnt address that, we are going to get into crossexamination again, thats where court left off yesterday. The Defense Questioning david pecker with rapidfire questioning questions about this whole well catch and kill scheme sort of poking holes into the prosecutions. What they laid out for the last several days. Essentially, they were saying that this whole buying and bearings stories was nothing new, that they did this for celebrities all the time and it had nothing to do with the fact that trump was running for president in 2016. So well see where that picks up. When court gets underway. Sir. All right. Thank you, brendan, john, it strikes me that donald trump, for the first time said something nice about someone involved in the case against him, but hes still talked about a witness still spoke about a witness with us now, cnn legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Jennifer Rodgers and former federal prosecutor for the Southern District of new york, sara kris, jen, to the point that donald trump made about david pecker, that he was nice. Lets leave aside for a moment whether or not that violated the gag order. Lets talk about whether he was right, how nice has david pecker been for donald trump . And what is the risk that he couldnt be nice . For donald trump in the crossexamination . Yeah, its so interesting because when youre crossing, you have to decide how youre going to approach it, right . Are you going to attack aggressively this person tried to undercut their credibility or if they seem friendly to you, or at least not hostile to you. Are you going to take a more friendly tone with them . And so far thats what weve seen they think they can get more out of david but pecker by being calm and not aggressively attacking him. And i think that theyre right. He clearly still admires trump. Hes willing to give the defense what theyre asking for when it will be a little more fraud, well see if they start to try to dig at. Well, when you said you talked to trump about this and they tried to like poke holes in that and maybe you dont remember remember or maybe it wasnt exactly what you said. Well see if they go full on in those those are the Big Communications here. But so far they think they can get more out of them this way. And thats really what youre doing and crosses your, youre not trying to get the you cant do you need me on that wall moment. What youre trying to get our little tidbits, youre going to use in your Closing Argument to make your point any risk for pecker in violating his agreement with prosecutors who theoretically he has immunity, but theres really no likelihood that theyre going to charge arch him with this crime. I think he probably knows that. So while i think youll try to stick to the terms of his agreement, theres really not much risk for him. One of the thing that the Defense Attorneys started to do yesterday and cross and i imagined well pick it back up within just a few minutes here is maybe trying to question how well david pecker remember its specific moments how much does that land with a jury thereafter . Twoandahalf days of a pretty specific testimony from david pecker, pretty vivid in some ways, luria testimony. I mean, that could be pretty effective actually because it particularly if pecker now recounts his conversations again and they ship if the little bit, the language changes a little bit, that that could matter here in the defense team is going to point out that these are events that happened many years ago the witnesss memory is not incredibly clear and theres some ambiguity here. Theyll use that to sort of poke holes and brains reasonable doubt, give me a checklist of what the prosecution thinks it accomplished with pecker in their direct. So he is a good one witness for them in that hes not biased. It clearly still likes trumps, so thats good for the prosecution. The big thing though, is this election conspiracy. What david pecker gives them is that all of this catch and kill, all of trying to hush up these women was about the election. It wasnt about as embarrassment over his family, is about his election in that thats what prosecutors need to make this Misdemeanor Falsification of Business Records into a felon was almost like it was the refrain if this for a song, whatever they could the prosecution and david pecker tried to come back to the 0. 0. This was for the campaign, this was different. There was a shift before the campaign. Trump was worried about his family once the campaign started, it was only about the camp hey, so how does the Defense Handle that and cross so i mean, the real question here for the jury is why this happened, right . We know sort of the basic facts of this happen and i think the defense team is seating, those. The question is, why and because that makes it a crime or not. And so i think from out of the gate, the defense team from the Opening Statement through this cross, has sort of challenging the peoples version of why this happened it is interesting because were now several days into this testimony. It isnt were that the prosecution has delved into the exact crime here. When do you expect that theyre going to get to a moment where they say this is where donald trump broke the law. And in this case because it needs to be two laws that were prosecuting four here. So i think they wanted to start with a relatively safe witness, right . They wanted to start with a witness that didnt have a ton of impeachment material that was little bit harder to crossexamine to set the stage. I think this was probably a smart Witness For The Prosecution to start with, although the e. They in established this can bureaucracy the Broad Strokes of it, but they really are going to need to get to Michael Cohen to get into the dirt here of what happened. We havent falsified documents yet, as far as this uri is concerned, really have widget no, i think actually after pecker and before cohen will get some kind of boring witnesses who are going to take us through the records themselves, authenticate them, explain them, will probably get some of that stuff. We dont say boring on tv, we say highly specific typic in technical, i think is a way to describe that Jennifer Rodgers there. Thank you so much for being with us much more to discuss as this continues this morning we do have pictures from the courthouse right now. As we said testimony will resume very shortly. This is the doorway donald trump walks out of when he speaks before go again, we will see if he speaks. Well see if he speaks about the tropical. Interestingly enough, he has maybe moved away from speaking so much about this. Perhaps the gag order is looming as a threat. 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Were going to bring you if he has any comments, hes gonna be making his way into court, which is kinda become his routine. But theres also happens just as new cnn polling is offering up a fresh look at the real impact this trial is having and how americans feel about trump and about their vote only 13 of voters nationwide feel that donald trump is being treated the same as any other defendant. When you look inside that number, you see there there are most are divided over whether he is being treated more harshly or more leniently, than other criminal defendants. What happens if he is convicted of a crime . This is interesting among trumps supporters they take, this is among trumps supporters. Look at this result, this poll finds the vast majority would support trump regardless but 24 of Trump Supporters say it may cause them to reconsider their support of the former president. Lets talk much more about all of this joining me right now, a cnn senior political analyst, ron brownstein, his new piece out in the atlantic is about the Supreme Courts impact on trumps future and the future of the presidency, quite frankly, and its called trump is getting what he wants lets start there. Ron, because after yesterdays Supreme Court arguments, you concluded that trump is getting what he wants and more how and why well, look in practical, your attorney in the near term, what hes getting is were kind of getting numb to this, but that at that hearing yesterday five of the republican appointed justices, really all of them except amy coney barrett, gave very clear signals that they are going to protect the republican president ial nominee from a trial before the november election on the charges that this poll and other polls show are the most serious is to the American People i mean, in practical terms, at almost any of the rulings that seemed possible out of that hearing are going to make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for there to be a trial on Whether Trump tried to subvert the last election before he faces voters. In the next election. But the implications for what happens if he is reelected, maybe even more profound. I mean, you saw that hearing how virtually unlimited is their view of president ial power they his lawyers argued that unless he was first impeached individually, which is impossible in this current partisan environment, he could sell Nuclear Secrets assassinate a political rival, or even stage a coup without facing criminal trials and the legal experts that i spoke with, uh, for this piece pointed out that when youre starting with someone who has that level of view of what he can do as president trying to draw a very fine lines between what can and cant be prosecuted after he leaves office is kind of a doomed effort and he is going to take almost any kind of immunity as a license to truly push at the boundaries and reed just a portion of because about that, you wrote this that those who went into the hearing wishing to preserve a preelection trial against trump emerge from the proceedings reduced to hoping that the court doesnt eviscerate the possibility of criminal consequences for any president who breaks the law. I mean, because youre gonna, youre, youre speaking to just that ron about what this means for a second trump term. Look, i mean, it was kind of an upside down world where afford the least four of the, of the republican appointed justices. There only concern was that a future president would face unfair prosecution from an overzealous successor or prosecutor they affirmatively refused to talk about, chose, swatted, swatted down efforts to talk about the actual facts that were dealing with now, which is the allegation that a president tried to subvert the last election and broke the law in the process two times you Brown Jackson really was the one who said, look, i mean, youre talking about a Chilling Effect on the presidency. If you allow for prosecution look at what were dealing with here, what kind of license and liberating effect on a president to break the law. Do you create if you say that there are going to be already limited on im sorry im just going to erupt really quick. I im not sure if Everyone Viewing at home loss, but weve were having some technical issues where ive completely lost being able to hear ron. Ron stick with me. Were going to have hopefully work out these ground lins as happens sometimes. So stick with me, were going to get that worked out where i was like can throw up the live picture once more of inside the courthouse is were standing by to here. If donald trump is going to be speaking as hes heading into court lets get an a quick break. Were going to fix this up. Well be right back. From the nations capital, one of the most unforgettable nights in dc see the swarm and well read back here again, President Biden and comedian Collin Joseph headline the white house Correspondents Dinner, live tomorrow at seven eastern on cnn chem to riva support your brain health. Mary janet, hey, eddie know appraiser, franck. Franck, bread. How are you . 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Im going to start with you, jennifer did david pecker has been on the stand, the former publisher of the enquirer and he has been asked 1,000 questions by the prosecution now getting rapidfire crossexamination from the defense is the defense making a mark . Are they hurting the prosecutions case . I think theyre doing. All right. So far, yeah. I mean, what theyre looking for from david pecker who so far has been friendly to them. Its not like pulling teeth to get stuff out of david pecker for the defense. Theyre just they just want a little points. They want to make the point that none of this has any diego on one second. There is donald trump walking toward the microphone. This is when he talks, he hasnt spoken about the trial itself lately. Well, here when he says this morning thank you very much, everybody i want to start by wishing my life very happy birthday i should be with her, but im in a courthouse for rape, drug so wreak terrible. What were doing very well in this big drought everybody knows. Yesterday was a big day. But i do have to begin my wishing happy birthday. She said ill be going there this evening. Answer this case finishes up with this car unconstitutional case. When it finishes up we have hi report that is just put out by House Judiciary on the District Attorneys office, which was done by congress. And so is it just came out really wow. Moments ago, and i havent seen it read it but it should be interesting, i think yesterday went very well in this courthouse should be over, the case is over. You heard what we said and the patient be over but you have to make that determination and we have a judge, you would never allow this case to be over in a positive way as hes highly conflicted. The most highly conflicted theyre going to say and yesterday i think in this court having to deal with immunity, i heard the argument. Who is brilliant this is last night . I thought it was really great. I flip the gestures, questions were great and all president s have to have immunity. It has nothing to do would make absolutely nothing all present lets have to have immunity. If you dont have the president and certainly not precedent that the founders wanted so we have another de, of court in a Freezing Court its very cold that there for what purpose i believe they dont seem to be able to get the temperature it shouldnt be that complicated, but we have a Freezing Court yes thats fine. Just fine let him keep ending of that theres a rig draft. Thank you very much just. Waiting to. Save down. If im turned around. Okay. So hes now headed into Court Speaking briefly to reporters and cameras. He is happy about what he saw in court yesterday where hes saying that he is happy about what he saw in court yesterday. He is not happy about the temperature of that courtroom. There is no question about that. There is. I dont think anything to analyze on that, but i am interested in his take when he says were doing very well in this trial here he says we had a very good day yesterday. Why is he saying thats area you see that listen, i think theyre theyre making some holes peckers testimony there there have some particular jobs that are effective, but, you know, i think pecker of not the central witness of this case. Hes important. He said during this stage but i dont think it is such a dramatic victory as trump leaves it out to be certainly, what do you wanna point out . The first thing he did was wishes wife happy birthday and say he wished he could be with her. She could be there. Any number of his Family Members could be there at this trial at any point theyve all chosen not to be at this trial. It may be because this gets into some very uncomfortable issues. Jan, about about alleged affairs that he had with Karen Mcdougal well over several months of dalliance. He allegedly he was Stormy Daniels over a period of time. He spoke about the judge called the judge highly conflicted. He called this a rig trial, and he says this minutes before potentially what could be some kind of a ruling on the alleged violations of the gag or why hasnt the judge you think made a ruling yet . Thats a great question. I dont know. I mean, he had this hearing already on the first ten alleged violations theres another hearing set next week for followon violations, but every day we see donald trump talking more and more about the trial, what he said today isnt a violation, but he has continued think to talk about specifically Michael Cohen, which usually is a violation. So i really dont understand the delay. Obviously, its a hard decision for the judge to make. He doesnt have a lot of good options here, but its not like the options are changing as time goes by. So i dont know. I mean, i would expect a ruling today, although i said that, yes. Today as well there the prosecution is the only one right now that knows who theyre calling. Next, you mentioned Michael Cohen. Is that the crux of all this he was in the room where it happened, if you will . Do you think the prosecution should call next so jennifer pose the idea earlier that the next few witnesses are probably some just boring administrative witnesses regarding these payments are important. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Well, there may be a few juror sleep bank, but object to area expert but essentially, you know, theres these technical things they have to prove about the payments, the records for those payments, and perhaps the wheels witnesses our next theyre just they have to put those into evidence. Thats right. There necessary. Theyre not im really subject to much crossexamination all right. This all kicks off very, very shortly. Donald trump walked into the courtroom just minutes ago. It will be gyn with the judge speaking as possible. We do get a ruling on the gag order right away. Once we learn whether or not that happened also to reinforce these, then now hes going to consider four other violations just before hes even ruled on this. David pecker back on the stand very shortly for crossexaminations. One program you note, sarah and i are going to host coverage of the white house Correspondents Dinner tomorrow for a night beginning at 7 00. We will have a reporter inside deep source side to dinner. She got invited. Cnn special the live coverage of trumps Hush Money Trial continues, right we are alive outside the criminal courthouse here in manhattan. Were donald trump just arrived and walked into the courtroom for another day of his historic Hush Money Trial, which is getting underway at this very moment, judge juan Merchan Gavel and cord into session is when your weight more dramatic Witness Testimony and the potential ruling going on, Whether Trump violated his gag order. Good morning to our viewers. The United StatesAround The World i made son cooper in new york anderson an im jim acosta in washington. Your wife . But you can Cnn Special Live Coverage of Donald Trump On Trial minutes from now we expect trumps attorneys to press ahead with their crossexamination of david pecker, the former Tabloid Executive and trump ally, who spent the week on the stand detailing the alleged scheme to kill negative stories about trump, the defense, trying to poke holes in the prosecutions theory that trumps arrangement and with pecker the payment to adult film star Stormy Daniels, Work Conspiracy To Corruptly Influence the 2016 election. Also at any moment, judge merchan could rule on a major question looming over this entire trial. Did donald trump violated his gag order by attacking witnesses . And if so, what punishment could he phase were stating mean by for his Decision Anderson its gonna be very big de of court. A lot of state thats for sure. Theres a lot of salmon joined here by our chief Legal Affairs correspondent, Paula Reid Pali it yesterday crossexamination began. We that is going to take place pretty much probably we expect all throughout the day yeah. I think thats right. Because david pecker spent about seven hours under direct examination by the prosecution and david pecker, of course, the tabloid king is setting the foundation for the prosecutors case that trump and cohen were working to to suppress negative stories about then candidate chump to help his odds in the election. Now, yesterday, on crossexamination, trump just walked in the courtroom carrying a two inch stack of papers altogether by a binder clip. These are for notes from our team of journalists inside the courtroom and in the Overflow Room will be sending us play by play of what is going on. Well be reading those its out to you as we discussed, the judges on the bench. And when packer takes the stand, it depends. Attorneys are likely going to resume their efforts to try to poke holes in the prosecutions case yesterday, they were trying to make two points its one they were trying to show that Peckers Memory isnt perfect, that he forgot small details, for example, that hope hicks was not at a 2015 meeting. I understand were talking about things that happened nearly a decade ago. I think you were i could potentially forget who was at a meeting. We were at probably ten years ago. But the other thing they were trying to drive home for their questions to pecker so the judge notes that a hearing on this gag order that you are were just talking about actually happened next thursday at 9 30. This will be the second time the judges had a hearing related to an alleged Gag Order Violations since this trial started. And again, were still waiting for his decision on the first one. But the other point Defense Attorneys made was that this arrangement that trump had with National Enquirer was not unusual and this is keeping the Defense Attorneys because theyre trying to show that this was not something that they did special just for trump ahead of the election. And pecker talked about how they also suppress negative stories for other highprofile men like Arnold Schwarzenegger, mark wall, walberg, they didnt get too deep into their questioning. I want to turn to cnns elie honig at the Magic Wallet La yesterday we heard a lot for the prosecution, finished Questioning Pack or in trumps defense team began crossexamination. Im talking about the takeaways for you. Yeah. Anderson, six hours of testimony yesterday from david pecker. Here are the most important points pecker, of course, just to remind people, longtime friend of Donald Trumps, he was the chair of ami American Media, inc. Which publishes the National Enquirer david pecker, on direct examination, took the jury deep inside three separate catch and kill schemes. One of the involving a door man who had a story that was false about a child that donald trump allegedly had did not have out of wedlock. And then two stories related to Karen Mcdougal and Stormy Daniels, both of whom alleged that they had Sexual Affairs with donald trump, david pecker told the jury that, quote, we didnt want the story, meaning Karen Mcdougal, but applied to all that, we didnt want the story to embarrass mr. Trump or embarrassed or hurt the campaign. Now, with about an hour left in the trial yesterday, it came time for crossexamination. Everything changes when crossexamination starts, it was done by email beauvais, one of Donald Trumps lawyers, former federal prosecutor, and he drove home a few key points. First of all, trumps lawyer got out of david pecker the following about Michael Cohen. He asked in your relationship with Michael Cohen, he was somebody that was always wanted something for himself correct . And pecker said yes. So what the defense is doing there is using one prosecution witness, david pecker, to undercut another prosecution witness, Michael Cohen, who will hear from in the future the defense team also focused on a discrepancy in something that david pecker has said, he testified on direct examination about this crucial meeting in august 2015 between him, donald trump, Michael Cohen, and whole hicks. But trumps defense team pointed out that the first time david pecker told prosecutors about this meeting, he made no mention of hope hicks now, was that a failure of memory . Is he lying . Well see i think theyre going to try to flesh that out today. And the third point that trumps lawyers made on crossexamination yesterday towards the end of the day of david pecker, was that this practice of catchandkill was done all the time for many years. It was not something they did specifically only for donald trump. So theyre trying to make the point to the jury of this was nothing out of the ordinary, and i think theyre trying to suggest that the jury whats the big deal, whats the crime that crossexamination will continue today, anderson, in a few moments all right. Elie honig. Thanks so much. Back here outside of the courthouse with with paula reid it was very interesting yesterday to just get a sense from david pecker the amount of time that they have known each other the amount of information that they kind of, the long, the length of their relationship. Yeah. This is a relationship, a friendship really that went back decades long for trump, who is running for the white house. And it was a mutually beneficial relationship for a long time. Trump provided a lot of news where the National Enquirer, that soul when he was the height of his fame, pecker said, during the apprentice of the National Enquirer would run helpful stories to trumps threat to amplify the great ratings. We said the stories also did well. And if you read lots of profiles of pecker, i will stop for one second to get outdated. Sayyed the court saying for now, the judge says the trump team should continue to object to Text Messages as the prosecutors tried to admit them. To evidence, so theyre having a little dispute. The prosecutors and the Defense Attorneys about which Text Messages in this case can come in as evidence. So the judge said hes going to take those on a casebycase basis. But it seems if you read the history of their Relationship Pecker and trump pecker really admire of trump. He admired his success, his fame his wealth. The women who are around him now the judge says he agrees with trumps lawyers generally that at some point the Text Messages could become cumulative cumulatively prejudicial to trump so what the judge is saying here where is that at some point all of these Text Messages together could become too prejudicial to come in to the case. So this seems like something the judge just going to continue to monitor a dispute again over which Text Messages can come in in this case, were also still waiting to hear whether the judge is going to say anything about the gag order. Yeah. Whats the holdup . I mean, we expected a decision by now, the judges had a few days to consider what the Prosecutor Says is more than ten violations of the gag order. The judge is weighing whether he wants to find or imposed some other punishment on chump for these alleged violations. Its a little surprising we havent gotten that decision and now theyre piling up as we kicked off in the past 24 hours, the prosecutors have added additional alleged violations trump is sitting back in his chair as the lawyers go back back and with the judge, theres gonna be another hearing next thursday on new alleged new violations of the gag order. But again, its interesting youre going to have another for hearing. We still dont know the ruling on the former. Get violations. Its really surprising and anderson, i hope that next week it goes better because this past week it was a disaster. It really devolved into a Contentious Exchange between the judge that Defense Attorneys, the prosecutor is asking whether the judge will instruct the jury about trumps attorney Misleading David Pecker yesterday about an fbi interview and during the last hearing, the Defense Attorneys really didnt want to focus on the post themselves and it was clear thats what the judge wanted. So going into next week, itll be interesting getting to see if the defendants attorney switch up their tactics. And it said, try to defend these individual statements or post these infractions as opposed to just complaining about the case writ large because that did not go well for them. Earlier this week. All right. Lets go back to jamming do you say jim anderson . Thank you very much. Im here with my panel here in washington and elie, let me go to you first. I mean, im just kinda wondering just to echo what paula reid was saying. If you mozart, whats up with the gag order . I mean, are we going to see something you think by the end of today . What do you think . Yes, but i said that yesterday look at anyone whos raised a child knows that discipline only works if its swift. And the longer he leaves this out there, i mean, in the time that the first batch of Gag Order Motions has been pending, trump has committed for alleged new violations, so im actually surprised though, because judge merchan for them most part has done a really effective job of Keeping Control of his courtroom, running things efficiently. He has tolerated no bs from anybody. Yeah. Yeah. Hes tolerating quite a bit here. He must. Im guessing. It looks like were getting an update from the trial as we speak that says the judge agreeing that trump attorneys apology will be sufficient. So it sounds because though one of the trump attorneys did apologize to david pecker at the start of the testimony for not being clear enough during some of the crossexaminations. So all right. So sometimes sometimes judges and prosecutors just work things out in formal. Yeah. Sometimes you can do it. Yeah. Now, not work out with the gag order. Yeah. No. Right an apology is not going to do it, but the judge has got to get control of this because its not going to resolve itself and id be shocked if he doesnt rule today. And aly at the other excerpt that were getting right now, so as the prosecutors asked, the judge to give the jury more instruction about how they should consider references to peckers meetings with prostate peters ahead of trial, theres gonna be a lot of backandforth over these meetings that david pecker was testifying about, which are just fascinating that this was going on during the campaign, right . So theres two things to learn from this and these meetings, number one, its very common for judges to instruct juries as to anything really and the jurys understanding of the law and the facts really hinges on how the judge often explains it to them. And these Jury Instructions end up being pretty controversial. The parties will fight over them quite a bit here the extent to which a witness as pecker has entered the courtrooms yeah. Got the extent to which a witness has met with prosecutors, speaks to the witnesses credibility, and often, jurors may regard lots of meetings with prosecutors as a as a sign of bias on the part of the witness. What theyre working out here, i think is how the judge will explain what the jury should do with those can just say you can glean credibility issues from someones meeting, but dont read too far into it. Yeah. And caitlin, i mean, one of the things im really struck by, i mean, just to look at the politics of this you and i both remember the 2016 campaign. And what was going on during that cycle and yet all along Behind The Scenes, its, it just seems with all these legal cases, we think we know everything that there is in the world to know about donald trump were still learning new things. Yeah, its shocking yesterday how we learned those details from david pecker about the white house and his line into the white house. House is present at the white house walking rattled sayyed, the oval office where we saw World Leaders and the president walking down that colonnade and we now know the tabloid king was there. And the jury is now in the room. Jim and i should note what ive been hearing from people this morning is that david pecker is obviously returning to the way but the stand as you just noted, they do expect and of course, well see what happens once hes actually on the Witness Stand. They do expect him to finish his crossexamination today and then prosecutors will have a chance to do their redirect. They expect all of that to end today, so we may see a second witness take the stand as soon as this afternoon. Essentially. Yeah. I mean, one of the things that we were kind of expecting potentially, jamie, again, goal is that maybe donald trump would testify himself during all of this. But last night, he was sounding a little different on that question. Is there a little bit of sound of that we can play and then talk about it on the other side. Well, if its necessary right now, i dont know if you heard about today. Today was just incredible. People are saying the experts, im talking about legal scholars and experts this, saying what kind of a cases is there is no case of course, not all the legal experts are saying that, but the first part of that, oh, maybe maybe not. It sounds like now. Yes. Yeah. Its necessary. How many times have we seen donald trump say, im going to take the stand . Im going to do this and then when push comes to shove, his lawyers and he also knows better, you cant take the stand and then face crossexamination, right. When youre donald trump. I just want to go back to david pecker for a minute and in something that the lawyers l8, you can talk about that credibility i thought david pecker was a very good Witness For The Prosecution. This is no Michael Cohen. This is not someone whos hostile. Hes a friend, he calls donald trump a mentor he says, even though we dont talk anymore, i still consider him a friend when they did the crossexamination, they focus not on any of that. Not on the substance of what he was saying about what they were doing with the catch and kill or the money. But just he met with prosecutors a lot of the time. I dont know elliots yeah, i agree. I and its one of the most useful things that Defense Attorneys can do is attack of witnesses this is credibility and even Little Things like meetings they had. What what motive they have to be truthful to the jury is the kind of thing you can attack it. A witness on. I think it was they did a really good job of attacking Michael Cohen subtly during that. I mean, that was clearly what they were doing when they set up the entire him having to go to trump and say, this guy would throw himself in front of a bus for you . Yeah. Would you give him his christmas bonus . Hes really worried about it. I mean, they were clearly theyre trying to set up who Michael Cohen was at that time, remembering people who you know, now is not the same guy from were going to ask jim schultes about all that in just a moment. Jim standby, were coming to you and hot metal here are coming up more official testimony in Donald TrumpsHush Money TrialDefense Attorneys now crossexamining Tabloid Executive david pecker. Well be right back how would really happened sunday at nine on cnn. You know, when i take the bike out like this, all my stress is just melt away. I hear that is bad. Boy can fix anything yeah. Tough day at work, nice cruises sorts. You write out when im writing, im not even thinking about my painful cavity he shouldnt ignore it. 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So theyre going to continue to try to poke holes in the prosecutions case and where they started yesterday, was trying to establish that this arrangement between trump and packer wasnt unusual, and this was the kind of thing this catch and kill by a story and then bury it or tip you to other unfavorable stories that this whole thing was done with other high profile people. And he, named several other people including Mark Wahlberg and Arnold Schwarzenegger. So thats where the Defense Attorneys started. Theyre also trying to note some lapses in Peckers Memory. So thats where they pick up today how do you think the defense will handle david pecker as a witness . I mean, theres different ways to approach it. He is somebody who obviously knows an awful lot of secrets of donald trump it doesnt seem like they will be as aggressive as they might be with somebody else. Yeah. So typically, when you have a witness who has some things that you want and then places where you need to go after his credibility, you start with the places where theres agreement. So its a friendly or cross youre pulling out the things that you know, the witnesses going to say that you want to establish with the jury and you do all that in a way to establish a rapport. The witnesses friendly, whos talking to you, and then at a certain point if there are key items where you need he to question his credibility. Thats when you change tones, changed tactics, and go after him a little bit more and perhaps use prior statements in the lake to impeach him. Trumps attorney beauvais is focusing on the august 2015 Trump Tower Meeting. I also want to bring in Brian Stelter, whos joining us, a special correspondent. For vanity fair and author of the book network of lies ryan, one crossexamination began yesterday, trumps attorney tried to emphasize that these catch and kill arrangements were not unique for trump. That paying i mean, in your experience, was paying to cover up stories, the norm for the Tabloid Industry at the time it was, it was the norm at the National Enquirer. I dont think we can extrapolate and say that other tabloids were engaging in the same behavior. But there were certainly a lot of this kind of sketchy behavior going on at the enquirer and some of the other publications that were also owned by American Media, inc. Remember the enquirer is just one of those brands. When you talk to x staff are some of the enquirer, some of them now have regrets. Some of them look back and say that they were engaged in so many morally dubious, so many ethically compromising behaviors that it all became normal than it all started to feel like a normal part of the job when it was anything but and i think thats interesting subplot to this trial. Anderson thats this is all about the legal case, but theres an ethical dynamic and ethical component to this. Trumps character is also being tested. Who was he, who is he taking advantage of in this case . David pecker. And of course, becker was taking advantage of him a little bit to try to sell more copies of this magazine and beauvais is focusing right now and the august 2015 Trump Tower Meeting and his questioning with David Peccary in the courtroom. Thats the critical meeting where it was Michael Cohen, donald trump, david pecker. And according to peckers testimony, trump and cohen were saying to him, what can you do for us on the campaign . Help. And thats where peckers that ill be your eyes and ears catching and killing though he says he didnt use that term, catching and killing stories that might be negative again, its donald trump one of the strategies of the trump attorneys, brian, is to show that these deals between ami and trump helped ami as well. Pecker agree when firms lawyer called it a a mutually beneficial relationship, what do you think the benefit that pecker and his company got from this was its hard to quantify because American Media is that was a privately held company. We dont have access to the Bank Statements to show how much better at trump issue would sell on the newsstand versus issue about some celebrity. But i do think we do know back in 2015 the context was say brian, just hold on. Both vegas asking you about National Enquirer stories about the clintons confirming with pecker that ami had decided to run negative stories before that august 2015 meeting. Sorry. Go ahead, brian. And back in that time, trump was just beginning to consolidate control over the gop. Remember, there were so many people running for president back in august 2015, trump, at that point, might have still been considered a longshot, right . His candidacy was a surprise to many people, but he needed to create this alternative reality. This Alternative Media Universe in order to get his story out. So the Inquiry Pryor was really important for him. This is why that Trump Tower Meeting, it was so important here we are a decade later. Were all used to trumps lies. Hes claiming today that his fans cant get out here to the park outside the courthouse . Yes. So you know anderson, i count six or seven protesters today seems to be a grift to theyre trying to sell some trumps whack brian seltzer, thanks very much. Beauvais saying that running those stories were beneficial to ami, correct . Pecker says of the bill and hillary stories, this is an important point pilloried. Yeah, this is incredibly important because remember prosecutors really started their story without 2015 meeting that august 2015 Trump Tower Meeting with core cohen, trump and pecker, were they decided that yeah. Im gonna be your eyes in years. Pecker said, help them suppress negative stories to help him win the white house. Now, here again, trump is once again sitting in his chair. But the reason this is important is because pecker is testifying that their decision to run negative stories about clinton happened before that meeting. Were going to take a short breaker coverage continues in a moment riyad. Saves new album is breaking records who gets to say what country is comey country beyond, say a nashvilles renaissance streaming exclusively on meds at simply save, we designed the number one rated Home Security system, powered by 24 7 professional monitoring for half the cost of traditional Home Security. So you stay safe for less than 1 a day. Theres no safe like simply safe. 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This moment with jury is Hearing Testimony from former Tabloid Executive david pecker, manu says you still consider donald trump or front despite spending the week laying out their alleged scheme to bury negative stories on trump and legally influenced 2016 election. Kaitlan collins, a lot going on inside the courtroom right now. And i have to say i mean you and i kristen as well. Jamie, all of us well, remember the 2016 campaign and for all of this talk of fake news, i mean, david pecker is really laying out this scheme so not only kill negative stories, but pumped out fake news beneficial to donald trump. Yeah, it kind of thing that went from the campaign, but also into the white house where he was found with white house officials. And right now, whats happening just for an update for everyone is david pecker is back on the stand. Hes being crossexamined by trumps attorneys and they are obviously trying to undermine everything that prosecutors laid out. This idea that there was a conspiracy hatched between donald trump and david pecker to try to hurt his republican rivals leading up to the in 2016 campaign, its also go after hillary and bill clinton. And so the way that theyre doing that right now is their questioning him about ben carson and stories that they had that they were publishing, implying that he had botched surgeries as a doctor. And what theyre basically trying to say is this was something that was already out there and other outlets, the National Enquirer was just recycling it. So this isnt something that was just a donald trump and david pecker plan. They were just out there. They just ask david pecker, would you have published this without that conversation in august 2015 with trump and david pecker testified, yes. So really, when i was speaking to trumps sources yesterday about what their plan is with this crossexamination, what their goal is. They really just want to undermine the he did this was a conspiracy to get donald trump elected. That really was just the National Enquirer are doing with the National Enquirer does yeah. Jim, i mean, we havent gone what youre reaction to what weve been witnessing thus far, right . I think its all about dirty up the National Enquirer. Right. And the industry in general, this they call it a checkbook journalism. I think yesterday, they use the word Standard Operating Procedure procedure, time and time again. The gym we should notice this right here on the side of the screen just to keep giving our audiences excerpts, beauvais confirms with pecker that other outlets covered malpractice claims against ben carson and may of 2015, it sounds as though what you can see some of the headlines there on screen there. Ted cruz for Shamed By Porn Star Bungling Surgeon ben carson left sponge and patients brain first of all, take all of these headlines with a great assault as we do with the National Enquirer. But it sounds like what the defense is trying to do is say, hey, wait a minute. So all of this stuff that was kinda floating out there anyway and politics, its part of celebrity culture, its all you know that thats the argument is, is that that is this is all part of kind of the dirty business of tabloid journalism. And i think theyre going to hear more and more about that. The another moving on the marco rubio. Right. So theyre going to go through each one and they talk about a little bit about schwarzenegger, right . Celebrity slash politician, their trend can make an here that this is just the way that the business. We also just not call it journalism. The thing is driving me personally crazy because thats not a thing that it doesnt exist in the idea that this is journalism. Its not journalism. I dont know what you would like to call it, job, but nowhere the remark that word but no. I had a conversation with one of my producers about this before we came on and you can have a high minded conversation about what the National Enquirers doing and so on. Members of my family read the National Enquirer. You go to any supermarket on america National Enquirer. Its like having a tv, right there next to the Checkout Stand and amir, millions of americans consume this information. Jamie gangaw does, is hugely influential Publication Patient wherever you want to call it. Yes. Some people believe it, but its also entertaining. A lot of people. And thats more what it is. We have a new update, beauvais says the marco rubio articles are also based on information, quote not exclusive the National Enquirer . Yes. Pecker confirms. I just want to say one thing about the National Enquirer and its lack of journalism two things can be true at the same time. They can be doing all of these other articles about Arnold Schwarzenegger marco rubio and it can also be true that david pecker, who is very close to donald trump, and this is what he testified to yesterday, said over and over and over again, that he was doing this to help him win the election. Jamie, this is gonna be a challenge for prosecutors. Theyre going to have to explain to the jury why is this criminal . As opposed to just sleazy and gross and if there is a problem, why is Donald Trump On Trial here . But nobody else who was involved in this . And the answer to that, It Prosecutors have to come through it is its the accounting. Its the finances, and theres an update. Yeah, trump is whispering with his attorney. Has copies of the article in question are handed out so theyre going to ultimately have to answer that question for the jury. Why is this criminal and why is trump being treated differently . The answer is the finance and ellie jump in here because im in a lot of this rests on the question of whether or not this is campaign activity. And i just want to read this National Enquirer was recycling information from other publications because it was cost efficient and made Business Sense Bove as yes pecker testified that im trying to make it sound like the National Enquirer was just an aggregator. Yeah, thats not really whats going on here. And i think theres a few things. Number one, the a lot of this hinges on the extent to which the jury either trust the National Enquirer trust what theyre being told about how the National Enquirer worked or is inherently suspicious of it . The ordinary people. And frankly, i dont know what these 12 people think about. Is this just what journalism is . Or do they think this is disgusting and distasteful and so on. I truly dont know. And jurors can be weird about what they think about facts that prosecutors except to be matters of gospel right. And the other thing is getting to this Campaign Finance or the campaign question, its everything comes down to the extent to which you can convince people who simply dont understand. Number one, new york law. And number two, how campaigns are run in the United States, that this was something untoward. It, you will notice that the defensible repeatedly make them the point or nothing to see here this happened all the time. You have to look no further than campaign negative campaign ads. People generally think political campaigns or sleazy. So now theyre going to try to conflate that with sleazy this and dirtiness of the enquirer to muddle this all up before a jury so that it comes back to your point. Point, that you know, how how is there a Campaign Finance violations here . He was never charged. There was never any charges associated with it. And isnt this all dirty right there, caitlin, i mean, theres a political question and all of this and that is okay. We can talk about what took place at the Supreme Court yesterday, and theres very important constitutional questions at play. This is solidifying. I would think in the minds of some voters that what was going on Behind The Scenes during the 2016 campaign was just unseemly. You can call it criminal. You can say, oh, this is just what all politicians do. But people are getting more details about what they were doing Behind The Scenes during this campaign that cant be a good thing. Yeah, weve theres been this conventional wisdom, which maybe is not conventional wisdom that this isnt going to have much impact because all of these details were already known. But as were looking at this, including this latest update that david pecker is confirming that amis business, which of course owned the National Enquirer, included cultivating a network of sources and trumps attorneys said, but thats not what was happening with the hes articles, essentially trying to make this argument that this was something that other outlets had published. Places like the guardian about ben carson. They were just simply regurgitating it, that it wasnt necessarily this plot thats what theyre trying to doubt. Theres another one here. Beauvais notes, pecker testified he wanted to keep the Trump Tower Meeting discussions highly highly confidential, but says it became public before the election. Pecker agrees nothing to see here. Defense, right. And thats to your point, though, i think having all of this trotted out into the Public Domain again and having people be reminded of just how crazy the 2016 campaign was and learning details that we didnt even know about how this stretched into the white house and taxpayer funded officials were involved. Thats something that its not clear the impact it will have, but, but the idea that we know for sure that it will have zero impact on this. I dont think is a given and i dont think the Trump Campaign is believing its a given. Yeah. Chris, i mean, these these revelations, socalled revelations in the wire, were just oh, just coming out organically. And thats why when you talk to some of Donald Trumps senior advisers, as you have peckers are always becoming software as hes responding and agreeing with the defense. You have people who are like rob. Rob, this is going to do exactly what it did in the primary. We are going to raise money. Were going to become more popular. But then when you talk to some of his more seasoned advisors, you hear a lot more skepticism as to what this is going to do. They know that this is not good for donald trump, right . Whats the outcome . We dont know, right . And we know he raised money off of it. But the question is, what does this actually do for voters come november, the campaign as the courthouse, the courthouse is the Campaign Elliott and a lot of these cases, my question for all the political heads here though, im actually curious if you have any sense as to what do people think about how Campaign Hands are run . And does the public tend to believe that theyre just all nasty, Disgusting Business where this is all completely normal or are people watching this around the country saying, oh, my god, that is absolutely the most disgusting thing ive ever heard. Im just curious. I just say quickly, theres nothing normal about yeah, theres a trap not a lot of abnormality. Mother hanes, but this has its own bar. Yeah. And with that intercept will toss it back to you on that question of normality, jim, thanks very much. Here in new york, outside the courthouse with paula reid and Adam Kaufmann form of prosecuting madden das office clearly right now, above eight is showing the Wall Street Journal story about Karen Mcdougal that was published just before the 20th he 16 election, saying that it shows a amides help for trump was public. Adam clearly what the beauvais is trying to do for the defense is essentially say this information was already out there and the National Enquirer was doing this for a number of people and a lot of different ways. Beauvais sides the story, reporting the enquirer quote, has supported mr. Trumps president ial bid endorsing him and publishing negative articles about some of his opponents. Beauvais is pointing out that ben carson, ted cruz, all these people were targeted by the National Enquirer even before this 2015, right . So hes hes taking the wind for the Prosecution Sales on that. The import of that 20 meeting and showing there was this relationship that had nothing to do with sort of a quid pro quo and pobeda is asking pecker to confirm that the concept of catch and kill was not talked about at the august 2015 meeting at trump tower. Thats correct. Peckers. Right. So this goes to the point we discussed earlier. Or if you have a witness on the stand who youre crossing, who sort of a friendly witness. You dont need to go after that witness and destroy them and raise your voice and make them look like a liar. Beauvais is doing a great job of just bringing out facts that undermine the governments theory and firms that trump and cohen did not pay ami any money in connection with the story from a former doorman at trump tower and then pecker confirms that ami is executed, quote, Hundreds Of Thousands of source agreements like the ones used for the Former Dorman and keratin could do go over the years. Again, its this drum roll of this was Business As Usual for ami hi this is just another, another example of undermining the prosecutions theory normalizing the conduct. Its also something that we heard a portion of yesterdays crossexamination when trumps lawyer talked about am i making deals with other celebrities . Again, its the this is a practice that ami was doing with other people as well. 100 . And remember, were not even talking about anything criminal, right now. Were talking about publishing stories about a background relationship, a backdrop to whats going to come later. But were not talking about elicit payments or a cover up. Were just talking about the relationship and the defense is doing a good job of normalizing it Brian Stelter is also standing by outside the courthouse and covering this room. Any fair brian talking about dylan howard because thats the name weve heard a lot. He was under david pecker are essentially i believe running the National Enquirer and hes the one who had a lot of the meander facetoface and Karen Mcdougal, he was in communication with Michael Cohen thats exactly right. He was the editor in chief at the time reporting directly to pecker for some of the daytoday operations, dylan howard was the one in charge. There had been speculation that maybe he would be testifying here, but he has a medical issue and likely will not be here and will not be called. But he was very much in on this, just like pecker, working hard on behalf of trump. I feel like anderson, were getting an unintentional lesson on News Literacy today. Its so interesting to hear about all this tabloid nonsense, how the smear is, how the recycled stories work. You stories were junk food and its okay if you know what youre eating. But a lot of people dont know what theyre eating. They think this is nutritious. It reminds me of a famous enquirer headline, donald trump the healthiest individual ever elected anderson brian just in terms of the power of the National Enquirer, its obviously greatly diminished by the way, heres an update, beauvais asked what was happening in peckers mind when he learned about the former Doorman Story that trump had allegedly father third an illegitimate child Beauvais Brian is essentially trying to get david pecker are to backup this idea that this was common practice. This was not something that he was only doing with donald trump of a is asking pecker, the former doormans story was true . It could be the biggest National Enquirer article ever. Pecker agreed with that i think obviously the defense has a logic to this, but i dont think it relates to what were going to hear weeks from now, but the actual criminal charge. So i dont see how its going to be relevant down the line. You were saying the enquirer, by the way, is greatly diminished. Thats absolutely true. But at its heyday, david pecker was having a lot of pfk1. This was fun for him. He was taking care of his friends and punishing his enemies. And hes such a diminished figure now, just like his old magazine, the company that owns the inquire has been trying to sell it for years and can barely even find a buyer. And by the way, all of this testimony, its not going to help with that either. Yeah. Brian stelter. Thanks very much. Pecker confirms. And it took several weeks after the source agreement was signed for ami to try to vet the former Doorman Story and previously said that if the story was true it would have been a big seller for for them david pecker, though, has previously testified that even with that, that Doorman Story, which the blue turned out not to be the case. That peckers plan was to hold it can catch it and kill it, but hold it until after trump got elected and would then run it yeah. I suspect the defense right now is trying to do a little clean up on that exact statement. So im guessing thats where the defendant thats just going to go here because theyre trying to undercut this idea that they were helping trump in order to help him regain the white house because a lot of this is just setting the foundation for the prosecutors case, right . The focus of the criminal charges here is someone who really hasnt even come up yet today, which is of course the money paid to Stormy Daniels by Michael Cohen and reimbursed by trump so right now with their focused on is trying to undermine the idea that Stormy Daniels was paid and that that payment was really covered up allegedly to help trump win the white house. Thats what theyre trying to attack right now. So i would expect that the defense is definitely going to want to revisit what pecker said about wanting to hold that story until after trump was elected. Its certainly also seems that, that they want david pecker. Here. Were saying pecker confirms that it took several weeks after the source grieve assigned for any might to try to vet the former Doorman Story, walking away from Sejourne Story would not make business sense. Agent is the doorman who had these allegations, beauvais says pecker says no it would not have made business sense. Why is that important . Right . So i think its establishing that the National Enquirer had its own interest in pursuing these stories one way or the other, and that they werent just acting as sort of an agent, a press agent for Donald Trump Trump all the time. And trumps attorneys now, moving on to talk about Karen Mcdougals agreement. It whats interesting from the testimony yesterday with david pecker is that it seems like donald trump was very concerned about Karen Mcdougal, was very upset with the interview that currently ducal did with me on cnn, called up angry about why is she able to talk and checked in with pecker repeatedly . Theres a picture we have of the two men at the white house down. Trump has been elected president. Its a Black And White photo. Theyre walking by the rose garden and pecker testified yesterday, this is the picture we now know according to david pecker what they were talking about at that very moment, donald trump, the president United States, said to david pecker, hows karen doing previously, he had also called her our girl with pecker, according to peckers testimony. And pecker said, oh, shes fine. Shes keeping quiet shes doing articles for us above as emphasizing the karam to do girls main interests was that she didnt want her story published. Pecker agrees. It says a significant moment, and i did think it was incredibly yesterday that trump was asking about Karen Mcdougal. And again, clearly his interests doesnt making sure that she kept quiet, but it was a moment where he checked in. He was clearly following this very closely. And in terms of the League Gallery here prosecutors are interested in that moment because they want to show how trump was actively involved in an aware of these efforts to suppress stories about his extramarital affairs. And i think one of the reasons was weve reported that he was so upset about this story is because the impact it could have on his marriage. This was not just a One Night Stand or a physical relationship that lasted a few weeks. So to something more transactional, like the Stormy Daniels encounters. This was a romantic relationship that lasted about a year and its unclear what his feelings were for Karen Mcdougal, but she clearly said but she told you, i believe that she loved him, so its a different thing than Stormy Daniels, which is why it upsets trump so much prosecutors objected repeatedly, went from some 20 is referred to trump as President Trump when talking about him in 2016, the judges sustained the objection. Just add one more special coverage. 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What do you make what were hearing so far, there are essentially trying to completely undermine the idea that this is a plot to benefit the campaign. How that works, and how that works given what we saw yesterday, where they, david pecker was saying this was explicitly done to help his campaign and we saw that i should note that right now, david pecker is on the stand. He is being questioned by trumps attorney and part of as part of cross its examination. And we are now told that david pecker is were counting his previous testimony where he said that trump told him he did not by stories because quote, that always gets out and really what the prosecution had tried to do was show that david pecker was this mechanism, this lever that the Trump Campaign through Michael Cohen, used to suppress these next negative stories because they were worried. And i think what the prosecution did effectively yesterday and well see how the defense counteracts that. Is that this was not done to benefit trumps family to try to protect them, that it was done explicitly to help his camp. Theyre kinda comes down to whether or not the National Enquirer was essentially an arm of the campaign . Yeah, that is the operative question here. I think the evidence that there was a campaign motivation here is overwhelming i dont know how the defense is going to convince the jury that at least some portion of this wasnt campaign related and think about some of the details that david pecker provided on that. Even a little thing like david pecker was there in trump tower, went out when trump came down the escalator and declared his candidacy, that photo that weve seen of david pecker walking and the white house by the columns, which thats going to stick in the juries had photos resonate with jurors so strongly. The other thing that i want to point it out just to maybe give a little color because we dont have cameras inside the courtroom when crossexamination starts the whole atmosphere in the courtroom changes because direct examination is generally friendly, its smooth, its been prosecutors hate this word rehearse. Prosecutors always said we dont rehearse. We prepare, have a hurst and then when the Prosecutor Says no further questions and we do actually say that, then the defense layer stands up and it doesnt necessarily have to get explosive sometimes it does. But even as cells like whats happening here is hes pointing out specific facts are going to undermine the prosecutions case. Yeah. Well, i do want to get more perspective on all this. I want to turn to retired new york state Supreme Court judge michael obs judge otis. Thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it what do you make of what weve been witnessing so far . As ellie points out, we dont have cameras on the hot room. I will die on this hill that there should be cameras in the courtroom. But how this has been unfolding today and your sense of things so far well i havent followed the proceedings this morning under the circumstances, but i have to save it. Ive been impressed and not terribly surprised that things have gone as relatively smoothly as they have given the notoriety and hoopla that surrounds the trial, especially out here. I havent been down to 100 Centre Street in awhile and i dont remember standing out in the cold this much. Via trial is moving smoothly. Judge merchan, who i know well, he was a colleague of mine for many years, is a very serious, hard working knowledgeable com person. And i think that is what is pervading the entire trial. I think hell do a good job and im sure his primary interest is protecting the integrity of the proceedings. The juror of course. And getting through this with a verdict, whatever it may be. Judge, over, i have to ask you because trump says is nearly every day centered again this morning saying that the judge is quote, highly conflicted. When you hear that whats your response to that . You said, you know, well, what do you think of that i dont think hes conflicted at all. I am certain there is no ethical problem with his serving on the case. I know that he received an advisory opinion from the committee that is set up for the purpose of advising judges on any ethical questions and i have also read the judiciary law again. And its clear that his relationship with his daughter and whatever work she does does not pose a problem for his serving on the trial, as long as he feels in good conscience that he can do so fairly. And he has said that and i have no doubt that that is his honest view. Judge merchan has yet to issue a ruling on whether to hold trump in contempt for allegedly violating a gag order. How do you think the judge should proceed here i mean, the prosecution has been asking for fines. Should the judge go further . What youre sensitive . Well, hes been proceeding very carefully, which i think is a good thing. Ive heard some second guessing about how he should have summarily punished the defendant. But of course, this is not a summary contempt proceeding at all. It has to do with activities outside of the presence of the court that would not have been lawful and hes taking his time. Everybodys having an opportunity to have their input. I think the fact that this potential contempt finding is pending has its own bearing on the matter. And im sure that judge merchan will come up with some measured response as most people are saying, i sincerely doubt therell be any kind of incarceration anytime soon and that would probably interfere with the trial more than it would help. Yeah. So i dont really think thats an issue. I have to say that justice is dont dont go to trials thinking, im likely to hold anybody in contempt or i want to have a chance to show how tough i am or anything like that. I was in this court for about 28 years and i never held anyone in contempt. I never had a hearing on that. I wouldnt have wanted to and it wasnt necessary. I can see how in some cases certainly where a person acts up in the courtroom and is interfering with the proceedings that you have to do something summarily. But thats rare and those people are usually already in custody but this kind of thing the judges tried to avoid it. Its difficult. And only if he is really baited, invaded, invaded would i think they, judge merchan would do anything to drastic, although he certainly could impose fines as was apparently done on the civil case that mr. Trump had. All right. Judge ogres, thank you very much for your time this morning. I appreciate that perspective my pleasure thank you, sir. Gym shorts. I mean, just to bounce off of what the judge was saying, there are a few moments ago in terms of what a judge or shock could do here in terms of reining in trump, you must know that finds are not going to put much of a dent in trumps behavior. I mean, we should know right now, beauvais pushing a pecker to agree that photographing such a meeting with put a little pressure on trump by elevating Michael Cohens, this fascinating, what is going on. Theyre talking about the summer of 2016, Michael Cohen wanted to work with mark cuban and apparently what trumps attorney is pushing him on and what that elevating cohen thing then is that when he set up that meeting with mark cuban that he asked for paparazzi can be sent so they would see Michael Cohen and mark cuban going to meet why . Because they believed it would help elevate Michael Cohen and david pecker says that Michael Cohen never told him that, that he believed would elevate him and trump size, but he agreed that it would have been a consequence of hiv going to meet. It just shows you how they are all focused on on objects and level of coordination just incredible i am jim i mean, youve known trump for what did you have any idea that this kind of stuff was going on Behind The Scenes . No. I joined the Trump Administration 2017 and white house counsels office. This was all prior to that. Obviously, but i do think that we went back to the gag order. Yes. Yeah yeah. Theres not a lot he could do and i think its back to we were saying earlier, i think hes holding it over the head a little bit. I think the delay has a lot to do with the threat of a stick rather than a stick because im not sure that to your point that the fine is going to make a difference and our seeing an update right now, beauvais is now now showing pecker, the ami agreement with Karen Mcdougal this is a critical point in all of this, isnt it . Yeah. I mean, that is the central piece of peckers testimony. Is the agreement that they entered into with mcdougal to the point caitlin was making before about michael collin, what the defense is trying to do. Now, Donald Trumps defense is paint Michael Cohen as a guy who well do whatever it takes to get ahead. Hes always playing his own angle. Hes always trying to get himself photographed with mark cuban. Hes outright hes always trying to take advantage of any situation because what do you think the defense is going to say to the jury . Folks, this is the ultimate opportunities always doing whatever the moment demands. You cant trust him, but also, its also how people try to get that in. You know, this gem very well to influence with trump and how they do things outside to make themselves look better or bigger. And trumps size. Michael cohen, as the defense will surely point out, wanted a job in the administration. He did not get one than it was often seen at the white house. I ran into him outside the Briefing Room one day in early 2017, but its also just something we always see the jockeying and trumps orbit of people trying to elevate themselves in his eyes for whatever their purpose was. And this is just evidence people who know him well no, that thats something that would get his attention, right. All the sudden hes meeting with mark cuban, somebody that donald trump does Pay Attention to in the meeting is being photographed by paparazzi mean that because david pecker of them exist happy because david pecker sentence. But this is exactly whos operating in trumps orbit at the time. And this is something that would get donald trump putting Michael Cohen like that really shows that Michael Cohen knew who he was working with. Yeah. And caitlin to what you were saying, i mean, yes. I mean, one of the reasons why they tried to elevate themselves Behind The Scenes, trump allies as aides associates, and so on. Is not necessarily gain notoriety. That is to some extent, the case witness, Kellyanne Conway, but in some ways its also to just get his attention to get trumps attention, the bigger name you have the bot, the more youre appearing in the presence on the trump says, oh, maybe i should listen to this guy. Yeah, weve heard countless instances of this from people who worked inside the administration who always trying to there gain favor with trump or to be someone who could have influence on him, or to get to enrich themselves with a better job or position, whatever it was, this is kind of Standard Operating Procedure for trump world and Michael Cohen clearly, as its been famously reported now, he had this loyalty to trump. But what is the New York Times had this amazing piece . At one point, it was a oneway street with donald trump that Michael Cohen really would have done anything for donald trump. What we saw, how much that reversed itself. You may go back to credibility for a second because elie brought up this notion of what theyre going to try to do to Michael Cohens credibility i think this is where david pecker becomes a very useful Witness For The Prosecution. Theres a story that we heard yesterday about, not just the picture of pecker coming to the white house or everything else, but that haecker attends this meeting at trump tower in january 2017 . We then fbi director james comey, sean spicer reince priebus, and mike pump peo and pecker testifies that trump says about pecker. He probably knows more than anybody else in this room. You dont see the defense going after these kinds of very specific stories in crossexamination. And so i think thats an example of the role pecker plate in his life. And no one is taking that down on the crossexamination. Yeah, it sounds like the defense would rather talk about Michael Cohen, the david pecker, because pecker has been an effective witness and he doesnt have an ax to grind and the way that weve seen, obviously with Michael Cohen, that relationship is now very different versus the way it used to be our guys coming up defending trump will talk to a former trump attorney about just how hard that is as the crossexamination of tabloid king, david pecker heats up, stay with us how it really happened sunday at cnn life diabetes. There no slowing down each de is a unique blend of people to see and things to do thats why you choose to help manage Blood Sugar Response uniquely designed with carb steady glue, sirna, bring on the day. Were still going for that nice catch. Were still going for that perfect pizza. 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Nothing special hear nothing conspiratorial, nothing criminal. This was just how the National Enquirer operated and they had access to this very colorful and soon to be very important men. And they were culture nurture during that relationship. I also want to bring you that bill brennan, criminal Defense Attorneys representing the former president in both the 2022 criminal tax fraud trial and was to trumps second impeachment trial right now, beauvais is revisiting peckers earlier testimony about consulting and campaign attorney in ami general counsel about the mcdougal agreement what do you make a bill of the approach by the defense to david pecker how theyre handling this witness well, good morning, anderson. And thanks for having me i think its the right approach having spent seven weeks in that particular courtroom with judge merchan. He demands civility and i think that its its the smart move to go easy with beauvais. Beauvais seems to really have no extra grind and if you can establish to the jury that this was Standard Operating Procedure, i think i heard obey said that theyve done this tens or perhaps Hundreds Of Thousands of di seemed like a lot to me, but if this is just Standard Operating Procedure, you have to make that distinction to the jury because unless they can tie this to the crime of Campaign Finance fraud, this case goes out the window an atom youre, you are skeptical about this case. I am i am a bit skeptical, a little bit skeptical about the case you have to tie. Were hearing a lot of evidence today about this relationship, but nothing thats criminal and to focus in on the criminal charges, what are the criminal charges youve got the falsification of records. Theres a real question as to whether we have a Business Record or a personal record. And todd blanche opened on that the business the line item where this is a legal expense, which is whats at issue, that it wasnt illegal expanse according to the prosecution, youre saying that that wasnt necessarily a Business Record. It wasnt a record that was being submitted to the government for some perfect. It wasnt a record, right. So the the crime and this is a crime thats charged all the time in this courthouse in all sorts of white collar color cases. And anderson, the crime is falsifying a Business Record. And if you look at the indictment, it specifies that the records there were two sides of the records. There were, quote, unquote, false invoices prepared by Michael Cohen and on the other side, they were false entries into the ledger of donald trump not the Trump Organization, but donald trump. And blanche opened on that. And i think thats going to be a very important issue when it comes down to the end of the case, were not there yet. Beauvais asked pecker whether he was conveying there were no legal ramifications when he told Michael Cohen the mcdougal agreement it was bulletproof. Thats correct. David pecker says, yes. So here its interesting. Pecker actually had to doublecheck to make sure this wasnt a Campaign Finance violations to purchase and then suppress Karen Mcdougals story we now know ami and pecker have nonprosecution agreements with the Justice Department. And of course, pecker has immunity here, but he believed at the time. Now he said pecker says he didnt withhold any information from the attorneys when they reviewed the mcdougal document and to your point, i mean, none of these particular allegations, none of these agreements are what is being charged here. We havent even gotten to Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohens payment to her, david peckers testimony. Now his crossexamination, well get right up to the beach beginning of that story when he hears the Stormy Daniels wants to sell her story and passes her off to Michael Cohen, whos the one who ultimately pays her. So a lot of this is just laying the foundation for that coming up, but more from the criminal trial of donald trump going to bring you the latest from inside the courtroom will also get an update from white house and biden doing an interview right now with howard stern, details from their conversation right after a quick break cnn saturday morning, starting tomorrow at eight on cnn your best days of the year start here i go. Ota orange days. Its the years biggest selection of kubota tractors. Zero turn lowers, and utility vehicles, including the number one selling compact tractor and usa plus the years best deals, like 0 apr for 84 months or up to 3,300 off select compact tractors. Orange goes all day, sales ending soon. 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Cbs allergic reactions may occur, can fire, may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. Tell your doctor if you have an infection symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to emerge as you emerged trim fired, asked doctor about trump via closed captioning brought to you by mesobook. Com our firm only represents mesothelioma victims and their families. If you or a loved one has been diagnosed with ms ophelie oma kalisa. Now all right. In new york, right now at jury is hearing crucial testimony from david pecker, former Tabloid Executive, and now key witness for prosecutors trial find the hush money case against donald trump. But as trump sits in a manhattan courthouse, President Biden, we should note doing an interview with the iconic and yes, sometimes controversial radio host howard stern lets check in with cnns Arlette Saenz over the white house. Arlette, maybe theyre just trying to set up a slight contrast here. If i made between the president and the Forum President in terms of whats happening today, what can you tell us . Yeah, thats really is what President Biden has been trying to do over the past two weeks is really trying to offer this splitscreen at a time when former President Donald Trump is in that new york city coat, a courtroom and biden has been able to use this time to be out on the campaign trail that includes his a threeday swing pennsylvania last week. And right now, he is over in new york city and he is actually participating in a pretty indepth interview with radio show host howard stern. The president has been talking in very personal terms, not really in campaigning type of terms, talking about his upbringing his childhood struggle with a stutter all so his experience with grief. Its interesting the white house has turned to some of these nontraditional types of Media Outlets to try to push his story at times. So youre seeing him sit down with an incredibly popular radio host. This, this morning, i really going through trying to offer people a personal window into his life. Now yesterday, biden said that he has not watched any of this courtroom drama thats been playing out with trump, but that hes been busy focusing on campaigning and thats a splitscreen. The he and his advisors are really eager to push as this trial continues in the coming weeks all right. Arlette will be looking for clips from that interview in the coming hours and days are lead. Thank you very much over the white house for us in caitlin i guess theyre going with the splitscreen over at the white house, scranton versus stormy. Is that what i mean, its a tactic where theyve kind of been taking this vow of silence not talking at all about what is happening in manhattan, what we are following so closely and what everyone is following so closely because obviously what trump and his team have tried to do, i just spoke with one of his attorneys last night is tie every investigation back to biden, even this one in new york that is not related to President Biden at all. And as laney davis, Michael Cohens former attorney pointed to me the other night was prosecutors who were working under attorney general, bill barr, who were actually the first ones to carry out everything when it came to Michael Cohens own legal troubles and so i think what biden is doing here and what he said last night when he was asked if hes been watching this, he said, no, ive been out campaigning and i do think that they are trying to dig a little salt and the water owned is trump complains that he cant campaign, youve seen President Biden increase his presence out on the campaign trail . Yeah. Jamie, i mean, what do you think about this hesitation on the part of the white house to engage on this and talk about what were all watching. I mean, you know, president talks about it, but its sort of like kid gloves arms length. I dont know if its kid gloves. Whats the expression about getting out of the way of your enemy yeah, your opponent what theyre doing. There you go. So i im not sure that its kid gloves. It may more be just let the pictures as were seeing them hear play out. Chris, mentioned earlier that we dont know how this will play politically down the road. I think absolutely true. But they didnt want to be here they didnt want to have him sitting in court. They dont want this testimony that was part of the delay delay. Delay. So that the Biden White House is happy to sit back, christian, i gotta think if the roles were reversed, donald trump would not hold back no but i mean thats donald trump donald trump operates in a different world than everybody else. This is the problem that anyone who has covered politics for decades has hard with donald trump is that there isnt the people cannot figure out the way to beat donald trump, right . We saw this in the primaries. We saw this in 2016, we saw by biden one person who has been able to beat him, which is why he said he wanted to run again. But if you go too hard after him, its sometimes backfires. If you if you dont attack him, it backfires. I do think that this strategy of not touching it and letting it play out. These are salacious details. Heres a, heres an important update right here. Trumps attorney catches a mistake begun peckers testimony that he saw the thirdparty consultants invoice for trump to pay back ami for mcdougal in 2016. So once yeah. Well, you know it may have been an innocuous oversight or error, but things like that are important for Defense Attorneys to point out in front of a jury because it suggests that way, just so you dont even have your own storage the basic details of when youre seeing invoices, you dont have down showing pecker his interview with the das office from 2019 when you said that the first time you saw that third party invoice was in 2017 . I mean, jim, this whether or not they can establish these invoices these questions about the Business Records thats going to be crucial very who recorded them, how they were recorded, who gave direction to donald trump, good direction to that. We know that he signed checks, but signing checks isnt recording the Business Records. Thats all going to be very, very important to proving their case. The invoices that have talking about now relate to mcdougal remember, the payoff two mcdougal is not charged crime. The path to the charged crime is what comes next. The payoff to Stormy Daniels, which pecker was much less involved and theres also an important sort of piece of doj history here, back to the claim that this is somehow biden connected. I reported on this the decision by doj not to prosecute donald trump on this on the Campaign Finance violations was made during the first few weeks of the biden administration. Now, joe biden was not involved in that. No one at the white house was involved in that. It didnt even make its way to what we call main justice to doj headquarters. But there were a series of meetings things within the Southern District of new york, starting a few weeks before inauguration when it was clear that trump was going to be out of office, they decided not worth charging. Yeah. But its interesting because were now seeing this case unfold now were learning all of these new revelations that we might not have learned had alvin bragg not pursue and alvin bragg seems to look at the case differently and think he has different evidence all right. Guys. Thank you very much. Great conversation all morning long. Appreciate it very much coming up on trumps lawyers are trying to discredit david pecker on the Witness Stand, will bring you new details from inside the courtroom next every piece of evidence tells store how it really happened with jesse l. 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I leah hd could significantly improve your vision and can help you go up to four months between treatments if you have an eye infection, i paint or redness or allergies, twilio hd, dont use ai injections like alia hd may cause i infection separation of the retina or rare but severe swelling of blood vessels in the eye and increase in eye pressure has been seen theres an uncommon risk of heart attack or stroke associated with blood clots. The most common side effects were blurred vision, cataract, corneal injury, an eye floaters and theres still so much to see if you are on alia or a similar type of treatment. Asked your retina specialist about i leah hd today for the potential for fewer injections zyrtec allergy Relief Works Fast and last a full 24 hours, so they can be deliverer, dance okay. Dave lets be more than ofil as easy as 123 hybrid zola alvarez at the white house. And this is cnn we, are, watching history unfold in new york. The criminal Hush Money Trial of former President Donald Trump, right now, Defense Attorneys are grilling a key witness for prosecutors trumps team is trying to undermine david peckers testimony about the alleged scheme to catch and kill negative stories about former President Trump. Welcome back. The cnn spectral live coverage. Im dana bash and washington and im Anderson Cooper outside the courthouse in manhattan, following all of todays major developments. Lets get back to our chief Legal Affairs correspondent, paul reed, who is with me as well as criminal defense attorney Adam Kaufmann. Adam so. In terms of what we have seen so far its been no real surprises. I mean, clearly the defense has the strategy of just trying to show any inconsistencies. And david pecker testimony and also amplify the idea that what he was doing for donald trump, he was doing for many other people as well. I think thats it. He i think in the crossexamination, they havent really gone after him and they dont they dont need to because pecker is establishing points that help defense talking about other examples of where he did exactly the same type of activity. In other stories for other people that this was Business As Usual, this is what the National Enquirer did and so theres, theres really been no need for the defense to go after and crossexamined him in a harsh way. Joining us also as bill brandon, criminal Defense Attorneys represented the former president , both in a 2022 criminal tax fraud trial. Most interim second impeachment trial. What do you make . What we have heard thus far and what do you, as they move into Stormy Daniels now, trumps attorneys walking through peckers previous testimony that ryans davis, mike pompeo strong spicer, and james comey were in Trumps Office when pecker walked in let me just big picture what to you as the biggest weakness about alvin braggs case here . Anderson, the biggest weakness in this case is they have to get to the finish line of motivation. Was this done to affect a federal Campaign Laws . And its a long stretch youve got if you think of it in terms of a venn diagram if you look at this defendants case or i heard pecker talk about governors schwarzenegger, a mark walberg, the differences this defendant and governor schwarzenegger have celebrity circles in the venn diagram and they also have political circles. So if this was done to avoid an embarrassing situation in shame, to the former president and his family. And thats the motivation the case is over. They have to get to the motivation of Election Fraud, federal Election Fraud to make this felony stick. And i agree with adam. You dont go after a witness like pecker as epipole pecker in many ways is making the defenses case. I think also when ms clifford testifies, it would be foolish to go after her hard. I think youve saved that for cohen let me just tell you whats going on in stored the court pecker is saying beauvais, the attorney for donald trump has been asking us record for more details about walking into the meeting where james comey and others and mike lynn peo, beauvais asked pecker if he knew there was another consequence of that meeting. It was when i fbi director james comey told trump about the russia dossier. So its actually quite an important meeting that david pecker walked in on david pecker is trying to give some more details, a tweens prior testimony about walking in on that meeting thats a meeting where they were all assembled donald trump said to all of those in the room, this is David Peccary play knows more than most of you in this room the prosecutor objected. The lawyers went to the bench. The judge has sustained the objection the president s lead attorney whisper to trump after returning to the defendants table, explaining probably what went on at the at the bench so again, were going to be hearing more details from david pecker as the as the crossexamination continues polo, what do you what stands out to you about this . This feels like a hard left turn, right . Suddenly were talking about james comey and were talking about the dossier. What happened, but what were on commercial for the first time, david pecker on cross has been asked about Stormy Daniels. Hes testified that they caught and killed, so they bought it, suppress the story of a dorman who falsely claim trump had a childhood wedlock. They did the same in for Karen Mcdougal, who had an affair when it came to Stormy Daniels and pecker heard about her story. He said, i dont want anything to do that. Im not going to pay for her story, which is how she ended up getting passed off to Michael Cohen. Now want to note that trumps defense attorney todd blanche, just wish whisper to trump after returning to the defense table, the judge sustained an ejection from the prosecution who objected to another question about that meeting . The one in the oval office or james comey and sean spicer and all these folks are in the defense. Clear. Wanted to ask if pecker had learned earth after that meeting about what was discussed specifically, the dossier. Now, prosecutors didnt want that brought in. They objected. The judge agreed. So its unclear what Defense Attorneys are going to do from here if theyre going to continue this line of questioning are clearly trying to get at something by bringing up this meeting why would what is the importance for you . You would send out whats the important is that blanches obey is trying to accomplish here. So hes trying to figure out if if pecker had learned about what happened in that meeting. So it appears that maybe hes trying to suggest that once trump was in the white house, he wasnt sharing information or it was its not clear to me what theyre going to do now that this objection has been sustained, how hes going to pivot because what he wanted to do, clearly hes going to have to find another way to do it, or its just going to have to get on it suggests to me that what they might be trying to establish because the question was whether pecker did not overhear what was being said, that theyre trying to put some distance between trump and pecker in this while pecker good, have a relationship with trump, and this sort of media operation, he wasnt part of the circle that was learning about all the inner details of what was going on inside the government part of it lets go back to dana and do you see them thank you so much, anderson, as we wait for the questioning to continue, the crossexamination by the defense of david pecker caitlin can you just kind of look big picture at what we have seen as we are on the final day this week of a very, very intense, unprecedented hour after hour after hour in this new york city courtroom. And whether going into this we know what the Trump Legal Team and maybe more importantly as political, Political Team were hoping for whether at the end of the week they feel that its where they thought it would be or accomplished what they needed to accomplish given the circumstances. Yet, the testimony today has been a little bit harder to follow than i think. And other days, a little less sensational. But really what its clear and this is what we had expected that trumps team is trying to do is pick away at what prosecutors had been asking david pecker this week. And right now, trumps attorney is moving on from what paulo is just talking about there that bizarre meeting that we heard about where james comey as their reince priebus, mike pompeo, all of these highranking officials and david pecker pecker stops by and hes now moving on and hes asking about trump thanking david pecker for handling the Karen Mcdougal situation and the doormans story that was one of the biggest things that we learned about yesterday, where were basically trump invited david pecker for a thank you dinner. And was asking him, hows karen doing referring to Karen Mcdougal . What trumps team has been trying to do today, and it may seem in the weeds, but its important it is to undermine what they were saying about the mcdougal agreement, saying actually she did benefit from it because she had these columns published by ami publications that had her name on it to have benefited her career. Theyre arguing theyre saying that they believe they misled Michael Cohen on whether that agreement with Karen Mcdougal is bulletproof. Theyre basically trying to undermine that. This is all this big cover up and beauvais is asking pecker about that testimony. You were just talking about yesterday, when pecker said trump thanked him for the doormans story, kristen, you talk to trump sources all day long. What have you been hearing from them as they watch by the way . Because obviously there are no cameras in the courtroom. My impression from some trump people as theyre watching what we put on the screen and what weve put on cnn. Com, beauvais, tip pecker, quote, was that another mistake . Pecker responded faintly . No. Likely going to bring up some of that former testimony that pecker has given because clearly, this is a guided questions saying, is this a mistake here . But i would say im talking to these trumps senior advisers. Youre right. A lot of them are learning about this in real time. Theyre watching the coverage. They have no idea whats going on inside the courtroom. Trump is there with a couple of close aides who dont have their phones so theyre following this. It is exactly a salacious as they thought it was going to be. There was no mistake. We know what is at the heart of this alleged cover up for an alleged affair with a porn star. And weve been updated now from inside the courtroom, beauvais now raises peckers 2018 fbi interview, asking if he recalled saying that trump did not express any gratitude to pecker and ami during that january 2017 meeting . Ellie, can you explain . Put yourself in that position of a lawyer in that courtroom why this is important. So first off, this is a common what we call impeachment tactic each with meaning undermining the credibility of a witness, not the kind of impeachment that donald trump was subjected to twice. You take the notes as the defense team, you have all the interview notes. You know what the witnesses said to the fbi. Looking at prior tests. So thats exactly whats happening. And you can confront the witness if witness says, i dont remember that. You say, well, heres the fbi, what we call 302. Heres the Police Statement of what you said. Do you recall saying this . Its a way to bring the witness back. I think the fundamental strategic issue thats happening here, the prosecution wants to paint this as trump and his team working handinhand with pecker and his team for Campaign Purposes and the defense its trying to muddy that up, is trying to say, well, there was much more to it. It was about other things in the campaign. There were other people involve trump was at a remove in the last hour or something had come up where theyd asked the defense had asked the question, wasnt it widely known that the National Enquirer are supported foreign President Trump, that this is not and shouldnt not be a secret to anything they are framing it as sort of a Business As Usual matter, in the hopes of undermining what the where the prosecutor was going. And i think thats exactly it there. When you have these moments of contradicting a witness on their testimony, it actually makes for good theater in the courtroom. Because in order to look at his prior testimony, if its typically going to be silent in the courtroom as youre watching this man flip through these pages and find a statement that where hes wrong and just end he has to admit he will probably admit at the end of this. Yeah, it was wrongly time. I can jail for perjury right . Yeah. Yeah. And what about when it comes to a jury . A moment like this that were in right now quiet in the courtroom drama that eliot just described so i do think that its going to have some impact. Right. But this isnt hard hitting stuff, right . This is kind of i think this this year. I think it does like elisa. I think it does undermine his testimony a little but it goes too maybe you didnt remember everything the right way, but its not stuff thats going to be like very impactful, i think at the jury, it has to be a lot of hits in order to make an impact and beauvais is working to get pecker up to speed with interview notes in front of him, jamie, just to underscore what jim said, i completely agree. Yes. Theyre trying to chip away at his credibility. But we have yet to see any major part of his testimony contradicted he forgets this. He didnt say that whatever it was to the point of was this to help donald trump win the 2016 election . They havent underwear just by not being in the room were sort of limited here and relying on what other people are saying. But every account that has come out has then that david pecker has been quite disciplined and answering yes and no and not really to see how effective all of this is, because obviously the argument had been will trump is doing this to protect his family. One, people have been skeptical, skeptical of that because you havent seen his family inside the courtroom with them. Instead, hes surrounded by political aides, but its trump was entering the courtroom this morning. He went in and wished melania trauma happy birth and said that he wished he could be spending it with her, but instead, he was at the courtroom and having to do with that. I mean, what david pecker most effectively did yesterday was saying that this was on behalf of benefiting the Trump Campaign, that this was not to benefit melannie are to protect their religion. Both can be true at the same time inside the courtroom right now, pecker pushes back on beauvais in the interview notes, suggesting the notes could be wrong i know. I know what i testified to yesterday and i know what i remember if this was an important enough issue, and im not sure it is the counter move would be you get to then call the Police Officer or fbi agent who took that statement . To the stand and the Police Officer or fbi agent would say, no, actually, he didnt say this the first time around. I dont know that this is a big enough issue for now the court is taking a break and the jury is leaving the room typical. I mean, we dont know, but is this a standard break or is this because there seems about right now its probably a standard break only because if it were something where they had to work workout, the specifics of a contentious and ocean or Something Like that, they would have theyre taking a break, so were going to take just ahead are special coverage will continue details, continue to come in from inside the courtroom trump teens crossexamination is going on of david pecker. Well be right back the sinking of the titanic wed really happen, especially to our premier sunday at nine on cnn xhr tech allergy Relief Works Fast. It lasts a full 24 hours, so they can be the deliverer of dance okay. Dave, lets be more than our allergies seize the day with zyrtec 10,000. My next month i we wont know unless we try right how long have we waited for Something Like this will have to learn . 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And americas Beverage Companies are models might still look the same, but they can be remade the whole new way. Thanks to you. Were getting bottles back and weve developed a way to make new ones from 100 recycled plastic new bottles made using no new plastic. Youll be seeing more of these bottles in more places. And when we get more of them back we can use less new plan dr. Bottles are made to be remade look, we know its going to be a big change, but its the right thing to do. For all of us. Its just your mother and i went different thing which is why we got sling tv so we can watch live and free tv on one app thats right. Dad gets live sports and news and i get my reality shows. And when we dont want to pay your mom and i can still get hundreds of channels for free. Thing is really keeping this family together. You have no idea. I had no idea. Not flossing. Well, then add the wo of listerine to your routine. New Science Shows listerine is five times more effective than floss ev, reducing flats above the gum line for a cleaner, healthier mouth this three, feel the wo i brought in a juror max protein with 30 grams of protein. Those who tried me felt more energy adjust two weeks here, ill take that ensure not to protein, 30 grams protein one prim shift her 25 vitamins and minerals and a new fiber blend with a prebiotic make your first move with Battery Power, made by spiel right now, say 50, unselect aka system battery tool sets, real still find yours im Zachary Cohen in washington and this is cnn this is a special live coverage. Dont trump on trial court has taken a quick break right now. Theyre usually the form present exiting the courtroom just moment minutes ago, expect were to return to session shortly. Its been a busy morning so far or trumps Defense Attorneys crossexamining david pecker, the former Tabloid Executive, spent much of the week on the stand detailing an alleged scheme to bury negative stories about trump to benefit his campaign. Polin adam or back with me as well as former Trump Organization attorney in criminal defense attorney, bill brennan built let me talk to you a little bit about dont trump is now sort of tampering earlier comments he made saying that he would testified and say he will testify, but he said he would. He told last night told newsmax he would put more or less likely to testify, which im not sure exactly what that means. He said, if its necessary do you imagine him actually testifying in this case . Would that make from a legal standpoint as an attorney, would you recommend that no, i wouldnt recommend it. Now, youve doubt very much whether his attorneys are recommending it. And that is really a battlefield decision. Thats a decision in a criminal trial thats not made until the bottom of the ninth. Its really the last decision thats ever made and i can tell you from three decades of trying criminal cases, you dont want any defendant to testify. And in this case, i predict that he will not testify it would open up to questioning on a whole variety of topics that i mean, i imagined, as you said, his attorneys would not have any interests in him. A pining on anderson. It would be a complete unmitigated disaster the prosecutors in this case, ive tried against josh steinglass, is a pro hes been easier career prosecutor. Hes calm, hes cool and hes the smart as a whip and he would have a field de i just i dont know whats going to happen, but i dont have a crystal ball, but i predict he the former president will not testify and it sounds like the way things are going. Weve only got one witness in the box at this point, but pecker at this point seems to be fairly innocuous. This whole case comes down to theres no real argument at what happened with regard to the door man and mrs. Mcdougal, it really comes down to why it happened. And unless the Prosecution Team can tie this to a motivation to circumvent federal election laws. The felonies out the window, and then the cases out there windows. So i really think at this point, they should just continue the way they are. And i again, really dont think that will be hearing from the president from the Witness Stand, at least you represented former president in 2022, criminal tax fraud trial. Is that from second impeachment trial can you just talk a little bit about what hes like to work with on a case i can tell you. I think jim would probably agree with me, you know, i had no political agenda. I represent criminal defendants. Thats what i do, but i found the former president to be very easy to get along with. He was a client that really didnt give us any trouble but all 0s intelligent. He listens, he sees the big picture. So i had no issues at all dealing with them. We had some runins and we had some great times, but i really viewed it the way i treated. Look, the guys to the former president. You have to take that into account, but i treated him as i treat any defendant if he was running the elevator in this building and was charged with the crime of treated in the same way. So i have nothing bad to say about him. And frankly, i spent seven weeks with judge merchan and that Prosecution Team same thing. They were just professionals, easy to deal with on their game so really no bad experience on my part we havent heard from judge merchan about any ruling on the alleged Gag Order Violations. Theres going to be another hearing next week about what the prosecution said are new Gag Order Violations what do you think . The machine is going to do and has it surprised . Heres what i think made a ruling yet no, not at all, judge. Were is very experienced. Hes very deliberative and hes an intelligent guy and hes really in a tough spot because if he the penalties is i understand them in new york are thousand dollars max fine 30 days potential in jail. If he jails this particular defendant its going to cause huge ripple effects. I think its really what we do. Contempt is kind of the way those of us are parents deal with our children. You do that . Again, im gonna do this or the threat is more effective than the action. And i think judge merchan is just looking to get to the finish line. So he probably is holding the specter of a penalty over the former president had said, and hoping he doesnt have to impose anything serious. But then also hes got a graduated scale. You can start with the fine. He can ramp it up, but he if he can run this out to the case is over. Its almost a moot point and he can deal with it. He can certainly deal with the contempt decision after the trial. If he can run it out, that law yeah. Im here also with paula reid Adam Kaufmann, polo. Theyre taking a short break right now how much longer do we expect pecker to be on the stand for . So defense team says they have half an hour of additional questioning and then prosecutors will have a chance to do what its called, redirect, so they can go back at the witness. Its unclear how long thats going to take, but it certainly possible that pecker could wrap up today. Adam, im do you think anything there been any headlines out of today so for its the first day, its the first de in a long trial. Its the first witness. Were hyperfocused on everything thats going on in the courtroom these are these are building building blocks. Theyre doing exactly the point as weve said a few times today, we havent gotten to the criminal conduct yet. Were just up to the point where Stormy Daniels enters the picture. Where Michael Cohen comes in where the payments are made. None of that has been before us yet, so weve seen some sort of slimy tabloid operations. Weve seen sort of behind the curtain of some of how the campaign was run, but we havent gotten to crimes yet. I think if anything if theres a big takeaway, the prosecution tried to set a very simple and straightforward, collusive story. And the defense has tried to peel that away a bit and make it sound like this was nothing special, nothing collusive. This was how the National Enquirer operator and if there is a redirect, if prosecution feels like they want to go back and pecker, what would be the point of that . Usually its to clarify something that was perhaps in the prosecutions view, miss that misrepresented or came out a little bit wrong on the crossexamination. Its very limited. You dont get to go back and try to asking new questions. It has to be focused on something that was asked during cross that you feel the need that the prosecution feels the need to clarify on redirect. Oh, the criminal trial, donald trump are going to bring you the latest from inside the courtroom soon as they come back. Also ahead will share an exclusive cnn poll on how voters he, the cases against trump do americans think to form present as being fairly treated of that mr. Adrenaline just like sure this cant stand microplate shot of adrenaline right to the heart. Somebody would ask her something and she would just walk right past he didnt know they were talking to her. I just could not hear i was hesitant to get the hearing aids because of my short hair, but nobody even sees nearly invisible hearing aids or just one reason weve been the brand leader for over 75 years. When i finally get here for the first time, i could hear everything call miracle ear at 18002 347090. And schedule your free hearing evaluation today. As the jinx aired, bob and i spoke after every episode. 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Call your doctor, of course, in breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling problems, urinating, vision changes, or i paint occur ask your doctor about oncedaily trilogy for copd because breathing should be beautiful all day and night when youre the leader in disaster, clean up and restoration, how do you make like a never even ive been happened comes your way. Theres a pro for that surf pro, like it never even happened. Rife diabetes is no slowing down. Each day is a unique blend of people to see and things to do thats why you choose glue started to help manage Blood Sugar Response gutters for good call a33 leaf filter, revisit lee filter. Com today five good things listen wherever you get your podcasts ill come back. We just saw the former president reentering the court rome after a short break. In this trial that has been going on. Now for two weeks, were on friday ending the second week. And it looks like Kaitlan Collins ending the getting close to entering, ending rather the david pecker testimony. But i want to ask you about as they get ready to start again about what we saw this morning from the former president going before the cameras. What we saw even throughout the week, he seemed to have focus less on his grievances, not that he didnt mention them, but less on his grievances. And finally started to listen to his Campaign Aides and use that megaphone, use that microphone for some Actual Campaign business. Yeah, hes kinda been airing his grievances everywhere else, dont believe that hes not doing it. Doing there too. Its just in addition to that simply because hes not saying it necessarily nonstop as he is typically been doing in front of the cameras, hes instead been focusing on things like these propellants palestinian protests that have been roiling college campuses. He talked about the gdp. Hes talked about israel. Hes talked about inflation. That is atactic by the campaign to try to use these moments where they know he is going to get media get attention. They post moments beforehand and tell reporters that trump is about to speak because they know itll be those moments chump though is still on twitter and on social media or on twitter on truth, social, making clear his grievances complaining about the core just today, hes complaining that its locked down and i called for sean is back on the bench in the courtroom. They just took a short break but ill david pecker. You are right. They do expect to finish his testimony today. It sounds like his crossexamination is about to be done. Then the prosecutors have another chance, but i was told this morning they do expect a second witness to get on the stand today. Jim, i want to ask you, as we wait for david pecker ticket back on the stand and for this to resume. The defense it says that they have less than an hour left. Caitlin does noted this in their crossexamination of pecker, what do they have left to do . I think what youre going to see is a transition here what you havent heard from david pecker directly is he was directed by trump to do this for Campaign Purposes. He was directed by cohen to do this for Campaign Purposes. And i think thats really, i think some of this is going to sit around once you get colon on the stand cone wasnt paid by the campaign he wasnt part of the campaign so theyre going to have a real struggle of trying to make that connection because if youre not, if youre not part of the campaign, youre not part of campaign staff. Whats the True Connection here to the campaign . I think thats something that theyre going to start the drop out. And i think theyre going to focus on with cohen. And as david pecker is returning to the courtroom, yeah. Elliott, i think one of the prosecutor christians challenges throughout the traveled, particularly with david pecker, is moving from well, we all had an implication and we all thought that what donald trump wanted was to affect the campaign to a real understanding that thats what he wanted. Now, you can convict someone on the basis that well, we just thought this is what the defendant wanted, but and trump is now seated between his attorneys, emil bove and susan necklace but its its a stronger case to be made that there was some clear directive or so on. So really its just a question of overwhelming evidence or not. This is a great detail el la pecker is smiling in the direction of the defense table well aka trump, there are human moments at trial. I mean, its a bunch of human beings that were months close. Apparently, david pecker is still thinks he has some sort of i mean, they havent spoken in a while but doesnt harbor any hatred for donald trump, saying nice things about if its only three other witnesses attacked, hes been saying david pecker is very nice, but okay. Im glad you brought that up. Because thats part of the argument that the Trump Defense team is making about the gag order. Right. Because saying nice things about a witness isnt just being nice its also for halloween. It could influence. Thats right. And thats thats part of the reason that i remain miffed, that, judge merchan has not come out with a ruling bigger picture. One of the most common mistakes that defense lawyers make is they try to annihilate every witness on crossexamined. We prosecutors would go back to our office in lab. We go with this guy, thinks hes going to win the trial based on his crossexamination of some innocuous witness and todd blanche and emil bove or both . Former federal prosecutor. So theyve been part of those conversations and it looks to me like they are choosing their battles. They have not tried to destroy david pecker. Theyre trying to pull out certain facts that are helpful. Theyre saving their fire from Michael Cohen because i was actually the person who asked donald trump its nice. And exedra. Im curious. Do you how do you stop that kind of interesting. I think were having a little bit of trouble with your audio. Were going to get back to you. So crescent hold that thought person asked kristin asked donald trump about david pecker listening, Donald Trumps response that hes a good guy and she was yeah. Its a tough one because all that donald trump could really say there to comply with the gag order is i cant comment on that under the existing order. And you made a really good point data you are technically violating the gag order not to if you Say Something negative or intimidating, but also if you Say Something positive, the gag order doesnt specify positive or positive could be. Sure, very intimidate. Sure. And what did yes. Intimidate you or enticing a few are donald trump, right . You are sending. Thank you. Yeah. All right. Question is what is that message . I just to add to whats coming next, jim, im very curious to see whether they ever up their game against pecker, whether it ever becomes youre shaking your head. I agree. I dont think its going to happen or we would have seen it, but i would like to suggest one other thought. David pecker knows a lot about donald trump, not just the facts of this case. Yes. To ellies point, you pick your witnesses to go after but this is someone whos had a lot of dealings. These are not the only stories theyve dealt with, and he may not want to antagonize. And jim, as you as you answer, Jamie Beauvais asks pecker to describe when fbi agents came to his house in 2018. Is that about again, theyre trying to establish that, you know, that there were these other converse that are probably going to get into some of the conversations that happen there, perhaps further and peaches testimony. Again, this is just the chipping away and not the big deal issue, but chipping away piecebypiece at the peckers testimony going back to the i dont think theyre going to go after thicker aggressively. Theres no incentive to do it at this point. All he could do is maybe if these incentivized is the pile on what cohens going to end. Pecker says that the fbi agents took his phone with a search warrant they did not search his home in this moment is important because theyre getting getting to the part of the trump pecker relationship where things deteriorated. This is when david pecker signs that nonprosecution agreement. And before that, david pecker had been showing up to the white house getting towards the lincoln bedroom. This is the beginning of the yet they have not spoken since 2017. This is the first time theyve actually been in the same room we believe ever since that happened. And so thats what theyre getting at here in this moment where david pecker starts cooperating with the federal government. Thats exactly what is happening. Beauvais, again, confirms with pecker that ami the company that owns National Enquirer, entered into a nonprosecution agreement with federal prosecutors, kristen, your mic is not working. Go for it. Yeah. I think that all of this is again, trying to undermine pecker, but i do think its interesting. I mean, its not just that theyre not going after him, but again, as weve said, donald trump himself has only good things to say about david pecker. I think that goes to your point that pecker has the receipts. He was around for a long time before we talk aot about donald trump saying this is all about the campaign and pecker hearing him say that it was really interesting also to see the evolution of how these stories came to be with donald trump. It was his family than it became the campaign which is and were seeing part of the description of that evolution right . Right now beauvais asks pecker whether the meetings with fbi agents were stressful, quote, you wanted it over with though, right . He asks, yes. Pecker says, hes trying to understand the testimony. Anyone so its a couple things. One, we know theres not much left and the defense has saved sort of their most what they think is the most compelling material which is impeaching his credibility a little bit. So, number one, theyre building to talking about that nonprosecution agreement also, theres a fallout with the defendant and anytime you have a witness who has some sort of personal beef with the defendant, youre potentially planning and jurors heads the idea that the witness is testifying out of a mixed motive that not just these there to tell the truth, but he wants to bring down this person for personal reasons. And so i think theyre building to a crescendo, not banging the table and screaming, but, but certainly leaving the jury at the end with their final point that they think heard some really that he wanted to get out of trouble writing just tired of dealing with the fbi mean nobody once the deal with the fbi thats what theyre saying. Like i wanted to get them off my back. I entered his nonprofit agreement that deteriorate deteriorate the relationship with trump, but it really goes to the heart of how involved was the government in coaching, if you will, or preparing the witness, if you will. First testimony in this case. Yeah. So it is standard that prosecutors will meet with and prepare or coach either characterization as fair actually, a witness like this, but defense lawyers, its absolutely fair game to say. Look, youve met with them a bunch times and theyll usually say and i asked to meet with you and you refused, right . That can resonate with juries. I think its worth talking about the nonprosecution agreement just so people remember what this is. David pecker and as well here we go. Bove asked pecker if its true that at the time of the nonprosecution agreement, ami was in talks with another publisher to sell some of its tablets. So a nonprosecution agreement is a deal between prosecutors a witness that basically says were going to give you a pass. We are not going to prosecute you and you are going to testify truthfully what this is really important because theyre trying to get it motive for ride. David pecker signed that because theyre bringing up that at this time as. You can see here, ami was in talks with another publisher to sell some of its tablets. And in order for that deal to go through these investigations had to be resolved. So they are basically trying to get at the only reason david pecker entered into this agreement was because he wanted to be able to financially benefited forgive me. Pecker confirmed that the deal included a provision that the investigations had to be resolved before the deal could be finalized, as you think, this is really a crescendo, right . I think this also instills in the jury this idea that the federal authorities were involved, right . Why were the federal authorities involved . Because they were looking at an fec epc type issue or a federal issue, donald trump was never charged by the federal government. The jurys gonna be sitting there thinking about that. Why were they involved anyway and why wasnt this why wasnt this charged . Yeah. All right. Well, well see if there is a redirect from the prosecution after the defense its finishes with david pecker. Were going to take a quick break coming up. Were going to continue to update you on this pecker testimony. Were going to bring you the latest again, as we have been all ill morning. Ill week from inside the courtroom. Dont go anywhere live from the nations capital. One of the most unforgettable nights in dc, misra will read back here again, President Biden and comedian colin post headline the white house Correspondents Dinner, live tomorrow at seven eastern on cnn there are giant so mug they are the men and women building are babies Next Generation submarines. 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Designer sales that up to 70 gilt today and were back for more special coverage. First criminal trial of donald trump. Youre looking get us from inside the courtroom. A lot of news so far as the foreign presence defense team has been questioned, former Tabloid Executive david pecker, want to bring in retired new york Supreme Court diane kits all thanks so much for being with us first of all, just how do you think has been going to today in terms of Cross Examination, crossexamination is doing what it needs to do from the defense perspective, which is to chip away in little bits at mr. Peckers testimony. Now whether ultimately that sways jurors against what hes had to say its an open question. They asked pecker if that testimony was another mistake or sean sustained an objection from steinglass over the question talking about the judge merchan, we have not heard from him on the gag order. Theres another hearing next week about alleged new violations according to prosecution of the gag order what is he going to do i have no idea what hes going to do is options are very limited surprise you. He hasnt made a ruling as far a bit. It has it seems to me that i expected that after the hearing and i understand why he wanted to do the hearing and why you wanted to take it under submission. He wants to be very careful in case like this, and i assume wanted to issue some type of written decision i expected we would have seen it at some point this week and now we have three new edge violations. So now i suspect hell put them all together and rule next week. No is emphasizing that the first paragraph, the nonprosecution agreement that says prosecutors will not criminally prosecuted American Media incorporated this. I did that. Theres a nonprosecution agreement. Clearly, the the defense wants to raise questions in the jurors minds about the motivation of david pecker and how come he got to pass. Whereas donald trump does not absolutely absolutely the ideas to do everything they can to undermine the motive and the credibility of mr. Pecker. Is it common to its to have a nonprosecution agreement with a coconspirator yes and no, it depends on how badly you need this testimony and it depends on how culpable he may have been. Prosecutors make deals with people who have participate, who are or conspirators in elicit acts. Sure. All the time. Been sometime you take your witnesses as you find them that was always when i was a prosecutor, that was always a standard summation line. I had i went to central casting. I wouldnt have picked this particular person to be my witnesses is the guy im stuck with. Ladies and gentlemen, and sometimes you have to make these these deals what stands out to you so it is interesting that theyre going back to the nonprosecution agreement because even as someone who is covered this for years, i was at the press conference where they announced a nonprosecution agreement. It does help to suss out. Okay. Why did they mi and david pecker are kind of get off michael kuilan, of course, had to plead guilty for his role in some of these payments and then years later, were here with trump in court. So this really isnt important aspect. Peckers testimony to clarify, but what theyre trying to do is show that he was under pressure when he signed that. There were Business Concerns that the whole fbi investigation had to be rendered we need somehow had to be resolved before the company could move forward with some acquisitions that it wanted to do. They were trying to show to the jury that look, he was under a lot of pressure. This is what he had to do there may be redirected, prosecutors may talk to david pecker a little bit more, but do we know who the next witness is going to be . So we dont know who the next witness is going to be. Now. Just to guess, i think if youre going to look at david peckers testimony, remember when the very early stages of laying out this case, you could call, for example, hope hicks, she came up a few times, a serious in some key meetings with Michael Cohen and were trump and pecker another possibility is Kellyanne Conway because she could talk about remember, she was a very powerful official at the white house. But before that, she was leading the Trump Campaign, the first woman to lead a successful president ial campaign. She could come in and talk about the access Hollywood Tape and what a bombshell that was for the campaign. Ive read her book where she talks about just what a difficult time period that was that is significant, that could be significant piece of testimony because it sets the stage for why Michael Cohen and trump were in a hurry to suppress Stormy Daniels story. So we dont know whos going to be called, but i think those are two possible possible corners in session. Try the day. So whoever going to be called, it would likely happen today it likely you dont a lot of cases and a judge, you might be able to speak to this. They dont necessarily want to start a new witness with 30 minutes to go. Oh, and you have a weekend. No court on monday. But weve lost a lot of time this week because of passover. A dentist appointment, no court on wednesday. So the judge wants to keep this moving along. He could allow that next witness to take take the stand and allow prosecutors to begin questioning him or her by the end of the day i suspect it depends on how long the redirect examination is going to be and redirect examinations are tricky because they really are limited to anything that was brought out that hurt your case on cross a very often, lawyers will try and expand what they want to talk about on redirect, but i suspect judge, more shawn, whos trying to keep this its moving. Well, keep it what are the other options for potential witnesses . So eventually, of course, were going to get to Michael Cohen. Thats going to be the biggest thing that happens on the Witness Stand because he is the nexus between trump and Stormy Daniels. He it was the one who received the checks that were allegedly falsified. And then the crossexaminati on of Michael Cohen. I mean, its going to be fascinating to watch because you have so much to work with there as a defense attorney on not only is he an admitted liar, right. In the criminal sense, hes admitted to lying. He also has a vendetta against the former president. Hes named his books, things like revenge. He talks about the former president all the time. Now a few days ago, he suggested that hes going to dial that back, but they could easily fill a week just reading back portions of his podcast and his books and his tweets trying to show that maybe you shouldnt trust what he said. So thats of course the witness were all waiting for. Theres also gonna be some other some other witnesses that theyre not household names. There are folks who worked at the Trump Organization, right . People like to mcconney folks who can talk about the accounting practices. There let me critical to the defenses case because the defense is going to be like, look, trump wasnt involved in paperwork. He wasnt he didnt know what invoice was slightly. He might assign the checks, but he didnt know especially in the defense case, youre getting hear from a lot of folks who are just in the corporate side of the Trump Administration, Stormy Daniels also a likely witness at some point. Will read judge keys thinking so much of Cross Examination in david pecker appears to be coming to a close, will tell you what to expect next. They with us, youre watching cnns special coverage of Donald Trumps first criminal trial every piece of evidence tells a story how it really havent with jesse martin sunday at nine on cnn so whats the codes as 547 . Well, thats all working needs to pay. Were gonna get into me. Okay. Whats not a lot . Presenting with her son you are a valued customer we can go in the window meanwhile, at a vrbo when other Vacation Rentals leave you hanging, try one where you can reach a human in about a minute smile. 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And welcome back to more of cnns special so live coverage, im dana bash and washington right now, Defense Attorneys for donald trump are trying to chip away at david pecker is credibility and undermine the former Tabloid Executives testimony. Im back with my allstar panel and katelyn, just bring our viewers up to speed on what we have seen so far this morning. Its interesting because the trumps attorneys are now crossexamining david pecker, this tabloid king, who was the one who revealed all of these details yesterday about how they would suppress these negative stories against donald trump by paying people who came forward with those negative stories, whether or not they believed them to be true or not. And so theyve been doing this Cross Examination clearly trying to take away from david pecker is credibility. His memory. Theyre not being nasty. Trumps attorneys actually being quite polite and trying to be charming and part of the jury, as you would expect. But he is certainly trying to say, well, you told investigators this and this year and now youre saying this here publicly. David pecker has stood up for himself and saying, i remember what i said this is what was said to me. This is what i heard at these meetings right now. Theyre in a bit of confusing line of questioning where a mill beauvais, trumps attorney is questioning david pecker about that agreement that he struck with the federal government that provided him immunity. And is the reason hes on the stand right now and doesnt face any kind of jail time potentially as a result of this, its not totally clear to me eric trumps attorney is going with this line of questioning and i do wonder if the jury can follow along. Well are reporters in the courtroom are saying that jurors have been paying attention, their eyes have been followed, have followed the backandforth between beauvais pecker, and it seems to be im going to go with our jds over here. That beauvais is when hes emphasizing the first paragraph of the nonprosecution agreement that says they will not prosecute. It seems like what theyre continuing to try to do is say, okay, guys jury. This is why hes on the stand right now. Hes on the stand because he got a promise that he wouldnt be prosecuted. Right. So prosecutors are both trying to undermine david pecker is truthfulness, as caitlin said, and with this agreement, theyre trying to undermine his motives. They said, first of all, when Law Enforcement came to you, it was that this vulnerable moment when you are about to sell your company . Make a lot of money. And they had you, you had to tell them whatever they wanted to hear, you had to do whatever they wanted to say. Okay. Theres a sidebar monday, which means theyre arguing over whether some question is admissible or not. And then the second part of that is, and as a result of that, you got a free pass. Youve got a walk. They just read the first line that says you will not be criminally prosecuted for for this. And as a result, youre still indebted to them, not financially, but you still have an incentive, a motive to tell them what they want to hear to shape your story. Maybe even in subtle ways, how the prosecution, we tell the process yes, to tell the prosecution what they want to hear to give them Little Details too to suggest these compromise cme are nodding. Yeah, i agree 100 they are trying to show that he cut a deal. Hes trying to take care of himself and throw donald trump onto the bus. And the process. Yeah, something we havent talked a lot about in the context of this, we focused so much on the criminal locations, the ami, but not the financial ones and someone can have a financial motive for testifying or even altering their testimony based on the fact that theyre in dire straits are and what the defense is buying out that he had a financial incentive, number one, to behave the way he did, and maybe even for testifying today. Now whether the jury buys it, who knows . Can i just ask a question if you get an immunity agreement and they find out youre lying under the immunity agreement what happens to you . Because my understanding is if you lose your immunity agreement, so doesnt that cut i mean, well see when they do redirect, but it doesnt that cut against lying when you have an immunity, jamie, youre doing the prosecution redirect right now i ten minutes from now, theyre going to ask exactly there are savvy and streaming game you hidden on the head that will be the response. I want to. As were waiting for that, what trump just tapped blanche, who his attorney on the shoulder and whispered something to him after blanche sat back down following the sidebar. The sidebar is over. Lets see what happens with that objection. We dont know what the objections specifically was over but if i may, Kristen Holmes, i want to remind people of the politics and what is going on here very much outside the courtroom and a new cnn poll, which asks people who are Trump Supporters this is a national poll. This is specific question to people who say they will support donald trump right now in november, would they still support him if he is convicted of a crime 24 say they might reconsider how worried is the Trump Campaign about that figure . I think theyre very worried. I mean, one of the things that Donald Trumps team repeatedly says when theyre comparing him to joe biden, is that donald trump has a solid base that no matter what people who liked donald trump will show up for donald trump, there belief being that if President Biden stays, if they lower popularity and people dont show up, that donald trump could become president again in november. So looking at a pool like that is actually very alarming to people who believe that every Single Person who supports donald trump will show up to vote in november 20, 4 might not seem like a lot, but just that number when theyre banking on those people showing up and just looking back at whats happening in that courtroom, beauvais is now focused on paragraph three in the nonprosecution agreement, which discusses the august 2015 Trump Tower Meeting. Can i read you that section that theyre talking about as were trying to fill in the blanks following along here, which i get is not easy. That part of the section says in n14 about august 2015, david pecker, the chairman and chief executive officer of ami, met with Michael Cohen and attorney for a president ial candidate, and at least one other member of the campaign. And at that meeting, pecker offered to help deal with negative stories about that president ial candidates relationships with women by among other things, assisting the campaign in identifying such stories. So they could be purchased and theyre publication avoided. Pecker agreed to keep cohen apprised of any such negative stories. Thank you so much for finding that. And so jim, to you what does it tell you about the strategy right now by of the Trump Defense team reading that paragraph that katelyn just found, and i should say as you respond to that, i want to say that they asks pecker whether he recalls that his lawyer said at a 2019 meeting that hard of paragraph three watts boat wrong and inaccurate pack pecker says he does not. Maybe that does answer my question. Its just going to go back to memory. Its going to go back to back to the credibility of the witness. What he remembered, what he said. Again, its just chipping away that this stuff is chipping away. I think the bigger one is the is the nonprofit agreement generally, because theyre going a hammer away on that. But we are getting to the end. This is the best stuff they have because thats what they want to leave the jury with. Can i go back one second to the parts . So in pennsylvania native of pennsylvania, nikki haley was on the ballot and this last election she took 17 of the republican vote. This is a low turnout primary not allowed on the ballot. Well, its probably liable. Right. Closed primary. Only republicans. And these are reliable republican voters, folks that come out for primaries are always kind of that, of that ilk. I think. You a couple the 24 with the 17 thats already dry drifted towards nikki haley. We dont know what theyre gonna do this matters. And kristin, look at whats happening right now. Trump is leaning forward staring at this green is pecker reviews the record from the 2019 meeting thats really interesting. Color. Yeah. Hes been really engaged in this. I mean, we know that part of the reason that he goes to these various Legal Proceedings is because you actually does want to be here. Obviously, he doesnt have a choice here, but in the past, he wanted to see who is testifying. He wants to engage in whats going on. He doesnt want to actually be in a courtroom being charged with anything. But once the legal stuff starts happening, hes been engaged and we saw that also with the jury selection, he was very riveted on listening to them at times, turning around particularly someone said that they read the art of the deal. That was one that prc tim up a little bit, but he is following this closely to try and glean what is going on here if i can get a little color about this statement of facts or theyre talking about this is a document thats attached to the nonprosecution agreement itself. Its a public document. Anyone can google it. And the reason defense lawyers are trying to dispute it was backer says there was a dispute over one word and paragraph three of that agreement, quote selling and purchasing is the same thing. Someone has to buy them, quote he, meeting pecker said, heres whats happening. This statement of facts is written by prosecutors, not these prosecutors that the das office, but the feds across the street and Southern District of new york all right, so it has a very pro prosecution. This was a crime slant to it. And what Donald Trumps defense team right now is doing is trying to undermine a, undermine the truthfulness of it, undermine the motives because the jury will see this and it reads like an indictment. But are they trying to undermine the motive of the prostate . Putian that has nothing to do with this trial or trying to undermine peckers credibility. And are they kind of hitting the same two things with the same style . But i think the last part, i think theyre trying to do both things at once or trying to suggest the statement itself is not accurate and theyre trying to suggest that as a result of this agreement, david pecker has bad motives picture its not done yet. These feel like very small inconsistencies. And reasonable ones that someone might forget or whos in the room im also curious from the lawyers this trial is gonna go on for lets say six weeks and im sure from your experience, it ebbs, it flows. Yes. The jurors take notes but once you get to week five or six, once youve seen Michael Cohen testified or Stormy Daniels testify, i just wonder whether these small inconsistencies fade into the background. You know, i was thinking the same thing. It does feel a little small ball when you think about the whole thing and the totality. By the time you get to the end, its going to look even smaller than the river mirror or is it about building the full the little inconsistencies or small ball. But what theyre doing is hammering again and again, again, this nonprofit agreement and theyre going to say that david pecker was trying to save his own skin. Im just going to call it the nonprofit agreement because it sounds you know just play one on tv. Were going to take a quick break coming up. We are looking ahead to the next phase of this trial as david peckers testimony hey, draws to a close. 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Dave, lets be more than our allergies seize the day with zehr tech there are some things that work better get out there. Like your Workplace Benefits and Retirement Savings gloria helps you choose the right amounts without over or under investing across all your benefits and savings options. So you can feel confident in your financial choices they really know how i put two and two together wellplanned, well invested, wellprotected the de you get your clear choice dental implants, changes your struggle with missing teeth forever it changes, how you eat, how you feel, and how you enjoy life it changes your smile. And now others smile at you. Clear choice. Network doctors have changed over 100,000 lives with dental implants and they can change yours too because a clear choice day changes every day schedule a free consultation im Caitlin Polantz at the federal court in washington, and this is cnn welcome back to our special live coverage of Donald TrumpsHush Money Trial. Former Tabloid Executive david pecker is on this standard, right now. As Defense Attorneys appear to be nearing the end of their crossexamination, and as this goes down, we have cnn, chief Legal Affairs correspondent, paul read with us, as well as retired new york Supreme Court judge diane key. So thank you both for being with us. All attended of a successful crossexamination is undermining the witnesses credibility and much of today, Donald Trumps team has tried to poke holes in david peckers testimony from yesterday, right . About david pecker is hes not really a witness that you have to destroy on the stand if youre the defense team here. So we have we have an update here, defense the defense team is reading from this agreement. This is a nonprosecution agreement between the government and peccaries saying theyre talking about the thing thats different from an admission, right. So whats happening here is theyre drawing attention to this nonprosecution agreement that pecker and ami, the company that owned the National Enquirer, entered into where they, you know, they did acknowledge Campaign Finance violations for paying Karen Mcdougal to suppress her story. And so theyre trying to get at the fact that pecker was under a lot of pressure to close this deal. Were trying to kinda take some of the bite out of this agreement in the eyes of the jury. So thats what theyre focused on right now. But throughout the pecker crossexamination, theyre not so much trying to undermine his credibility to have called up some questions about his memory instead, theyre trying to poke holes in the prosecution story, noting that it wasnt just the National Enquirer doing this for trump, right . Caching, killing stories, buying unfavorable stories and suppressing them and they werent just amplifying bad stories about his opponents like hillary clinton, to help him. This was just the way business was done at the national inquire. So theyve been really focused on undermining the prosecutions case, not so much going at david pecker, but were going to see Something Different with some other witnesses. Potentially you see those three dots bubbling on your screen. That means that theres an update coming. So stay tuned for that at any moment. Dianne, from your perspective, this effort to talk about the agreement that pecker struck and weve actually got an update beauvais noting that pecker was also accused of a Campaign Finance violation asking you certainly did not admit to a Campaign Finance violation. Pecker saying no from the stand, what do you make of this effort by the defense and whether its been effective to sort of say that he had to move forward with this testimony as part of the screen, you know, its very hard if theres any trial in the world that cried out to be televised, this one certainly was. But of course, judge merchan is limited by what hes allowed to do under state law. It is very hard for us to be able to ascertain what is pecker like when hes on the stand, when he answers these questions, when he says no, is he saying fourth in a forthcoming manner . Is he being furtive about it . All of that is so important when trying to judge its credibility is very tough, especially when were giving these updates, beauvais noting that packer was not part of the ami conciliation agreement with the fec as pecker no longer worked at the company, some of this boils down to a question of the intense and peckers ability to make deals, business deals, right as he was being potentially prosecuted how does that play into this polar . So really taking this back big picture, were a little in the weeds right now in terms of the actual case itself, the reason david pecker, a significant is because hes laying out a pattern all right. And effort to suppress negative stories about candidate trump to help him get back in the white house story from a doorman falsely accused me of having a child out of wedlock. Karen mcdougal allegedly had an affair with him, suppressing those stories until here is about a woman named Stormy Daniels and he says, i want nothing to do with that. And there are a lot of reasons, but then he hands that off to Michael Cohen. So he is really a polygamous that the prologue to the story, because at the heart of the criminal case here are its another defense attorney is noting that david pecker provided a signed declaration that stated that he sought legal advice related to the Karen Mcdougal that that payment i was just talking about to suppress her story and hes asked her lawyers relied on the sworn declaration to argue to the fdc ivc that there wasnt a violation. He says yes. Now this is significant because when he was buying Karen Mcdougal story, he consulted pecker, consulted with lawyers and said, hey, is this a Campaign Finance violation . Are we gonna be in trouble and hes testified today here that theyve said no, you well, not but this is not the criminal conduct that is charged. This is setting the stage from Michael Cohen to learn Stormy Daniels is selling her story at a critical time in the campaign. Access Hollywood Tape has just come out and then the way that payment is handled and reimbursed, they are charged with the Campaign Finance violations. So right now, getting into the weeds of david pecker is nonprosecution agreement its not necessarily going to make or break the case, but it isnt important detail to get across to the jury. Its largely table setting right. But its important to know everything that a lawyer does in a trial is a setup for summation. So theyve got to raise all of these little points and they may seem insignificant now. But a good lawyers get up down summation and wrap them all up we also have an update now, donald trump apparently is sitting back in his chair slightly turned toward pecker, and appearing to watch him robustly monitoring what the former president is doing in court because every little thing is a signal as to how he details about the proceedings, as to how his attorneys might approach the proceedings. Im wondering how that weighs on. The jury. His movements and your experience are watching him like i like a cat watches a little hole for a mouse. The crowd they are looked, they dont take their eyes off them. Jurors do two things. They look at the defendant. They of course, look at the witness but they also look at the judge, which is what makes being a judge, there are difficult because you cant your face has to be a complete blank slate. They want to know how everything is being in to standby because were going to take a quick break coming up shortly. Stormy daniels, hope hicks, Michael Cohen, they are all expected to take the Witness Stand. Question is, whos coming up after david pecker . Were going to bring you the latest from inside the courtroom cnn in 2024, Stanley Cup Playoffs presented by geico coverage is continuous zyrtec allergy Relief Works Fast. And last the full 24 hours. So dave can bva good liver dance . Okay. Dave lets be more than our allergies seize the de with czar tech its really been a gift having mom live with us. But as a nurse my training told me she needed more help than i could provide. So i connected with the place for mom my Senior Living advisor. Understood are unique situation. She quickly recommended communities and set up tours, a place for mom helped us get to a decision and now mom is oh, well cared for talked to an expert Senior Living advisor today at no cost to your family the de you get your clear choice dental implants makes every day ill, lets dig in day a chow down day a tick, a big bite. 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Pecker says he never spoke directly with the attorney when we learned that pecker was when he revealed that he talked to an attorney about this deal some of our colleagues thought that it was very noteworthy that he discussed this deal with Karen Mcdougal with lawyers. Well, an important moment just happened where it was actually it would be a win for the prosecution. I should note and this is the prosecutor right now asking david pecker if he told the ami the Company General counsel about the arrangement that he had made with trump at that meeting between Michael Cohen, david pecker, and donald trump, and pecker says that outside counsel was asked to review the Karen Mcdougal contract talking about who had eyes on this. But an important moment happened when he was being crossexamined where trumps attorney was trying to say that his attorney, david peckers once said years ago as all this is playing out that david pecker never agreed to suppress stories on Donald Trumps behalf at that august 2015 meeting . That is really the center of all this david pecker clarified, no, we never agreed to by all of them. But as we know, david pecker has testified, they did offer to serve as the eyes and ears that doesnt necessarily mean they were buying every single negative story that came their way. But as we do know, at least two of them. So what does that mean is this, again, just another attempt to chip away at his crime . Credibility, is it as simple as that . So now the prosecution across right now, you can point that third thriving. Now is there is a dividing line in the history between ami and donald trump before this famous august 2015 meeting, they were involved together. They were putting out hit pieces stories that were harmed full two political opponents of donald trump. But in august 2015, now trumps running for office. He announced two months prior. Now, it shifts and this is the meeting that weve heard about the august 2015 Trump Tower Meeting. Cohen, is there. Trump is there pecker is there . We believe hope hicks was there. Theres some potential inconsistency and then they said, okay, now were going into campaign mode. Thats a really important piece of testimony for the prosecution. So theyre trying to bring that back back to the jurors attention. This shifted from a sort of allpurpose protect trumps interest to now protect his interest because now hes entering the political fray and to be clear it for that reason, yes. Yeah. And pull back a little bit. The point of redirect isnt just two have another crack at the witness. Its to clean up, create something that went wrong for lack of better way to put it during the crossexamination, what they want to leave the jury width when they when the witness has done is the word campaign, the idea that there was a direct next to the camera and jim steinglass is seeking to infer that the election law attorney reviewed the mcdougal agreement without the context of peckers agreement to buy stories to benefit Trumps Campaign. Can you take that from the way its described here and whats going on there and put it into basic laymans terms. So i think what theyre trying to establish here is that is that the you know, that the election law attorney didnt this agreement had nothing to do with the the the the campaign hip pain porn right . That there was this shift. Right. And i think theyre trying to look at it from the mcdougal and then distinguish that from ms clifford. And just another update, la steinglass has pecker reconfirm that the purposes of the contract with mcdougal was to acquire her life rights and to suppress her story, to influence the election. Its that last part, those last three words to influence or words to influence the election is the crux of what the prosecution is trying to do here. That in a sentence is what the prosecution wants the jury to take out of david peckers testimony that this was an intentional effort to buy stories to bury them for the campaign. And i see now were getting an update pecker confirms. Yes. Saying the provisions about mcdougal writing articles and appearing on covers were quote this is important included in the contract as a disguise, trying to disguise the campaign motive by making it look like she has a modeling contract. Shes going to write for us also as a sweetener for Karen Mcdougal. Has something to offer her. Who she was focused at this time on restarting her career and so thats also part of this. And david pecker saying he never told the amide general counsel that the true purpose of the deal was to influence the election, but that doesnt mean he made very clear how he is trying to keep all of this very small circle. He had a separate email that his assisted didnt use. He sold to the editor and chief of the National Enquirer, david howard and make clear to him sorry. Dylan howard that they wanted to keep all the small circle and highly confidential. Thats important here. And david pecker also said that he never told the attorney that he planned to transfer the rights to Michael Cohen, who pledged to reimburse him. Thats also a key part of this because that was a big fight that they have where he was worried Michael Cohen wasnt going to pay him the money that he was paying too to Karen Mcdougal. This really shows that it was an apa citation effort, right . Thats what theyre trying to show here. That this was all they was trying to apa escape it with the internal lawyers to the Karen Mcdougal, to everyone involved trying to keep it as closely held as possible that the reason that david pecker was doing it was to help Donald Trumps camp hey yeah. I mean, which is in a nutshell, the entire point and the that whole premise, the hypothesis is what trumps attorneys are trying to chip away at, and its part of the allegations the charges against donald trump is so i took two things away from this when i first saw the testimony, i thought, well, hes not reaching, you, dont want to create a reach, but following up on what jim said, it also says we know that he was worried about Campaign Finance and triggering that he researched and he researched it. And so by keeping it as circle, by keeping it away from the lawyer nobody knew about. And chris and the update from the courtroom now, is that pecker also said he never told the attorney that he planned to transfer the rights to Michael Cohen, who pledged to reimburse him right. So isnt this also undermining the fact that pecker has said he had a lawyer look at this and say it was fine. But if you dont give the lawyer all of the information, then how can it be fine . I mean, it feels like thats really the bottom line here. And just putting a little bit more meat on the bones, reviewing records on the stand pecker says the election law attorney build ami for 30 minutes of work. Its all a lot of work reviewing the mcdougal contract. I want to ask what 30 minutes work is for you guys. Bills, at least wasnt that what the defense was trying to get up by saying that david pecker told Michael Cohen this agreement was bulletproof, but actually it just because an attorney said that the attorney didnt know that it had an election purpose drive. Im so and so theres a few things happening here. Number one, youre pulling out the election purpose number two, in the absence of a direct conversation or a direct quote, were donald trump says, please do this to cover up a campaign, something they can try to get in as number one. Now is that this such as campaigns, but number two but they know theyre doing something wrong are trying to cover their tracks. Knowledge of criminality, and attempts to hide are valuable. Minute not even telling his own 30 minutes is standard work to review the wording in a contract not to go through an entire background of story. I mean, ironclad bulletproof again, if you go to the hospital and you dont disclose what your issues are and you die, then you cannot sue because you have to disclose what your medical can. We also be very clear here that they were trying as david pecker himself has testified, to cover something up to suppress a negative story. Youre not just going to write down your crimes and a contract and put them on paper for and say, by the way, can you please sign this . The whole point of this is that it was a cover up but you want to write it in the contract. With the fact that he didnt own attorney to the lawyer said it was bullet proof based on the information that the lawyer was given, not based on the actual information that surrounded the event. Exactly what donald trump is on trial for though Michael Cohen did legal work when actually it was the allegation that Michael Cohen was paying money to a porn star its exact same thing. Theyre just doesnt have immunity. I think you need segregate the two the cover up that theyre talking about here is the cover up. The ami the cover up for pecker, right . Its much different than what were talking about. The Business Records case. So what this all goes to is that pecker himself thought that this was a problem that he was unlawfully help helping the campaign that doesnt that doesnt necessarily equate to donald trump knowing that pecker was unlawfully helping campaign or game directive to it. And i think this is all going to hinge on the one one guy that could put all that together is cohen update from the courtroom to prosecutor noted that the contract that the outside council reviewed had no details about cohen, the campaign, or trump. Now, our reporters there say every juror is watching steinglass as hes asking questions. So gyms exactly all right. This doesnt necessarily establish that donald trump was engaged in a crime, but it does establish that pecker was involved in a crime. And then as jim said, theyre gonna have to link that to donald trump. It also, this is very much of a trump world ami, worlds way of handling lures, using them as useful dupes. And the thing that came to my mind i think caitlin, youre reporting from maralago and the classified documents case, what they did with evan corcoran, the lawyer who has now left the team, is they gave him very careful information, but they withheld other information for him. He in turn, unknowingly made incomplete representations to the fbi. Thats why doj Christina Bobb was indicted and arizona because she signed it, but she made clear in that to say to the best of my knowledge, because as attorneys around dont know that they dont always know where i got snake and a quick break coming up more from inside the courtroom rome as prosecutors get one last chance to question david pecker great. He makes trust each other. Were gonna do a trust falls, stand up, you close your eyes. Ill see before trust what the summary up doc i told you. My name is susie loftus and im the head of trust and safety for us data security, tiktok. 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Now Donald TrumpsHush Money Trial is picking up steam here in manhattan as the prosecution is now going through, its redirect examination of david pecker, the former publisher of the National Enquirer or panel is back with us now and paula, there are signs but other prosecution is moving through this redirect pretty quickly. Yeah, theyre already talking about amis, a nonprosecution agreement. And remember that came pretty late in the crossexamination. So this is some of the code wrap up, wrap up pretty soon, which is just the question of all right . Will we hear another witness and who will it be judge, what do you think of how quickly this potentially is moving the redirect . I think its amazing while the redirect, are you talking trial in general or just the redirect of david pecker . The redirect is steinglass is doing exactly what he should be doing, moving in, hitting all most important points and hopefully its sitting down you dont want to prolong this, you just its wanted to be sure youve plugged the holes. We didnt get an update a moment ago. Pecker apparently responding yes to a question from prosecutor Joshua Steinglass that previous question about whether ami admitted to violating federal Campaign Election law. Theyre moving to this, the fec agreement a minor, but important part of peppers testimony. Yeah, this is something that weve gone over a few times. A ami end david pecker entered into a nonprosecution agreement with the Justice Department and on crossexamination, i think they were trying to muddy the waters on whether pack pecker had actually admitted a campaign minus violation. We have another update now the prosecutors revisiting that the mcdougal agreement and pecker that the mcdougal agreement and that pecker only agreed to enter into it because cohen promised to ria in burst him. So this this goes back to the fact that they, the National Enquirer paid Karen Mcdougal 150,000 to buy her story, which of course they never published the story of an alleged affair with canada, chump pecker expected to get paid back. He was not. Now weve another update from our colleagues inside the court saying they had dropped on up a transfer agreement and you went so far as to sign it. Now pecker says after speaking with the general counsel, he called up Michael Cohen and told him that the deal was off and to rip up the agreement. Theyre going through what happened after pecker paid Karen Mcdougal all of this again, just table setting for the explanation of why this relationship between trump and pecker was so important for the prosecution to prove that this was in their eyes, a campaign, an attempt to sway the 2016 campaign. Lets take a look at this update. Steinglass apparently has returned to the sides its been source agreement. Any recalls that beauvais had pecker testify that this was a standard source agreement. This isnt regard to that that door man that allegedly had information about an illegitimate child that donald trump reportedly had. Theres another update now or rather, yeah, steinglass is bringing up the agreement to the amendment to the agreement which change the length of the agreement from 90 days to in perpetuity. Judge, back to my previous question, all of this table setting, we really havent talked about Stormy Daniels all that much. And shes key to the prosecution proven criminality in this case how do you think this first week of testimony has gone for david pecker so far . Well, so far, david pecker has done what the District Attorney it seems to me, hoped he would do which is set the scene and what also to make sure that the jury understands that this was an agreement designed to protect donald trump. I think all of this testimony about well, you did this for other celebrities too. Well. So what you dont, whatever their motivation was for entering into this agreement is not an issue here. The issue is what was Donald Trumps motivation for entering this agreement . And the people, the state of new york maintain it was to protect them so he could get elected president , whether they can prove that is another question we have another update now, steinglass is asking if it is Standard Operating Procedure for ami to consult a lawyer for a president ial candidate about a source agreement pecker answering no too, that we havent seen in this redirect, the prosecution talk about the distinction between some of those other celebrities or Arnold Schwarzenegger. I think Mark Wahlberg was another one and donald trump who was running for president , who in august of 2015, had this meeting, the pecker testified about basically saying hey, this would be a great arrangement between the three of us. Well, what sunglasses trying to do here is undercut what the defense was trying to do on cross, which was established. This wasnt just a trump thing that you did to help them get in the white house. You did this for a lot of people. This is the way you do business and prosecutors going back at that saying, hey, heres the way you do business, right . Is it standing on standard operating . Procedure to consult a lawyer . So theyre trying to show that this was different. Now the prosecutor is now seeking to tay cohen to Trumps Campaign because there was a time when pecker testified that he didnt really see Michael Cohen as part of the Trump Campaign all right. But again, it was laid the foundation that the prosecutors that there was a meeting to help trump get into the white house and that this was done for the campaign. Pecker confirms that cohen was known to work to work as Media Contacts for the campaign. Well, Michael Cohen may not have officially had a campaign title. It is very hard given his close contig larry relationship, personal attorney relationship, to trump, to really separate him from candidate trump at that time. And he was go between trump and pecker to facilitate these payments, but thats why prosecutors are going back and like wait a second. You said you didnt associate colin with the campaign but come on. Thats what theyre doing right now. Yeah, youre going who referred to himself as Donald Trumps fixer at one point, the two of them obviously were close one of the outstanding questions now is when we might see Michael Cohen testify an outstanding question as we go back to washington, dc and dana bash whereas thank you so much and what were hearing from our colleagues inside the courtroom, right now is pecker confirms that cohen was known to work his Media Contacts for the campaign. My professional one word answer to that, Kaitlan Collins is yeah, i mean, in no surprise is another answer. I think its because there was they were trying to draw some distance between Michael Cohen and the inner workings of the campaign. What the prosecution is doing now is getting david pecker to clarify. Yeah, Michael Cohen was seen as in the Trump Campaign, was not on the page the role never officially, but as anyone who covered the Trump Campaign at that time knows very well, when something went wrong or they didnt like, are you reported something . It wasnt unusual to get a call from Michael Cohen and thats what david pecker saying is saying here. That essentially Michael Cohen went on tv and different in the campaign he was on cnn multiple times and other networks, and that he was essentially seen as this arm of the campaign. There was not a real distinction between his legal work in the cabin, i should say in many moments, much to the chagrin of core lewd ascii, who was the Campaign Manager back there, and others. There was not there was some tension about Michael Cohen being involved in the campaign in those early days in 2016. But he was and the question is why and how is this relevant to the underlying prosecution argument . Steinglass asks pecker if cohen was part of the 2015 agreement, he and trump had for his company to help the campaign . Yes, he was. That answers the question. There theyre using cohen as part of the campaign two, once again, tie, use another thread to tie this issue back to the campaign. Right now, steinglass asked, quote in this case, did you suppress stories to help a president ial candidate . Pecker says, yes, im sensing a thing thats what, and thats a headline, right . Yes. Thats thats exactly where theyre going to gym. You talk earlier about how do you tie donald trump into all of this . We have not seen everything yet, but i think its worth just reminding everybody that david pecker paid this money for two of the stories he expected to get paid back by donald trump. It did not happen. And that was the line. I am not the bank or somebody. I mean, so there is a context here certainly, the setting that donald trump knew about these, that this had history. And if one of you three was in there and you heard him say yes, do you say youre honore know out of there right now . I know. Actually going theres an update coming that i think well well show why they are continuing to ask questions to david pecker about whats the dont get out of talking while those three dots i like about no further your questions there is that hes in effect making a legal conclusion elliott steinglass asks pecker if he ever spent close to 150,000 for a story linked to Arnold Schwarzenegger when ami suppressed stories about him no. So that means is aural towards was at that time . Yes, he was a candidate. But in this particular case, not running from right. Its its in effect a legal conclusion. What he is saying here is that this operation paid money to suppress stories on behalf of the Trump Campaign. Thats the argument. And big money not the kind of money. And was typical for them, not the kind of money, even in other cases. Its also important. So im sorry, jamie. Its also important that it came out of the last line of questioning trying to understand what Michael Cohens role was because people didnt have official campaign titles that were established, that they were connected into the campaign and made the decision that it wasnt a rogue actor, but it wasnt just doing this on his own because he loved donald trump, which is what weve obviously seen them trying to paint him as somebody who would do anything for donald trump. This he wouldve gone out there but tie him to the meeting, tying them to pecker. All of these conversations in relation to the campaign that shows that he didnt just do that on his own so theyre trying to show forgive me. Im sorry, kris. And if you were you are a former trump attorney. If you were at the defense table right now, would you be concerned about whats happening . Sure. Right. This is a good narrative for them. This is their best narrative hundred and 50,000 for the prosecution. Yes. Hundred and 50,000 paid for paid for by ami. Is that an illegal corporate contribution to the campaign thats the fundamental question here what did the campaign coordinate with it . Thats another question that goes to the Campaign Finance issue. There were going to hear more about that from Michael Cohen and again, if Michael Cohens really the only one that ties all this together, hes got a lot of issues. Im actually see what else they use other than michael go. But the other thing you let this go, if youre the defense, just dont fight it. Dont object, dont because they knew this was coming. This is the central part part of the prosecutions case. Well, let it go hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, you dont because i think the more you kick and scream about it, the more you draw the jurys attention to it. They have other ways they can attack the credibility and the membrane is back to what you were saying about small ball at the end of the de, its just there were these little inconsistency Michael Cohen is coming. We dont know what else is coming. I mean, lets just remember that landy davis, who was Michael Cohens lawyer, has said that this case does not quote rise and fall on Michael Cohens testimony that there is other evidence, but we havent seen prosecutors are trying to answer the question for the jury. Why was the donald trump situation different from the Arnold Schwarzenegger or Mark Wahlberg situation. And the reason is the amount of money and the timing and circumstances around the campaign. Another person who was four and the person who was four exactly. But what the prosecution does not want to happen is the jury to go i dont know. They did this for everyone, all sorts of famous people are engaged in this stuff. Whats the difference . This is their attempt to answer that question. What the difference . The other thing to keep an eye out for as were coming up on lunchtime, you seriously jurors care about their launch. Yep. Yeah so i think prosecutors are aiming to sort of why yeah thank you, caitlin, for ordering as a prosecutor firms peckers earlier testimony that because he was friends with trump, he didnt run negative stories about him, even before the campaign. We are continuing to monitor all of this news coming out from this testimony that continues from david pecker and this note to our viewers, be sure to watch Kaitlan Collins again tonight at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on her program, the source, kaitlan guest is former trump attorney general, bill barr. Im excited for them not to ask him about coming up more special coverage as this prosecution gets their final shot at questioning tabloid king david pecker, and we stand by to see who takes the witness. 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