Little bit happening on the left too straight from the source tonight, donald trump declares know more debates as vice president harris is trying to goad him into a rematch. What is pete buttigieg make of it all? i'll ask my lead source live in just a moment. Plus all the former president's friends, one of them is a 911 truther, apparently who just accompanied him to none other than the 911 memorial once he graham says this person is toxic and her words are disturbing. And a major announcement is brewing tonight. About that iranian backed effort to hack the trump campaign i'm kaitlan collins, and this is the source debate rematch is off. Apparently, donald trump rejecting vice president harris is challenges. He returned to the campaign trail today for the first time since his first face off with harris as everyone saw two nights ago, we had a monumental victory over comrade kamala harris she immediately called for a second debate, which means that she was it's like a prize fighter that lost a fight. She was a no show at the fox debate and refused also to do nbc and cbs. So because we've done two debates and because they were successful, there will be no third debate too late anyway, the voting has already begun it's too late. Anyway, the voting has already begun a shirt doesn't sound like the donald trump that we saw and heard from just a few weeks ago so we have those three dates and those networks. They're very anxiously awaiting that date and those dates, we think we should do three debates so what changed between then and now, perhaps ardent trump supporter, republican congressman mike collins can tell us he posted right after the debate on tuesday night, quote, you want to know who won, find out who refuses toa second debate? it's probably not how the gentleman from georgia is tenth district thought that tweet was going to age me tonight, the vice president is clearly hoping to change her opponents. Mine, daring trump today, too. A second showdown. I believe we owe them the voters, they have another debate and what is at stake could not be more important she was out on the campaign trail today, the vice president also mocked her rivals debate performance during that return in north carolina donald trump intends to end the affordable care act. Not think about that think about that. As he said in the debate he made clear he has no plan to replace it. In fact you're a member which means no actual plan now the harris campaign is predicting to cnn tonight that they do think there will ultimately be another debate. We're hearing from one official who said they're not taking trump at face value when he says the debates, roth arguing instead that he changes his position every day. Trump's own allies were telling me, just as of yesterday, they thought he would currently show up for round two. We will all have to stay tuned, but in the meanwhile, my lead source tonight is the former presidential candidate and the former mayor of south bend, indiana, pete buttigieg, who i should note is here in his personal capacity, not as the transportation secretary. What did you make of trump saying today? no more debates between him and harris i remember back when he was saying any time, any place, but what changed, of course is he got beat. He doesn't like being beat. He doesn't like being embarrassed. So i'm not totally surprised that he's changed his position, backed off and doesn't want to go through that again, do you think that will ultimately be another match? do you think he'll be able to because you and i talked about this last time you said that you thought trump was scared to go on the debate stage with her. Do you think there will ultimately be another one? hard to say. You know, there may come a point where the dynamics billed against him and he decides he needs to do something, anything to shift attention from her winning message. Maybe that would motivate him to change his strategy. I'm beyond trying to prove predict what his strategy will be in the future. What i do know is it was a great night for her and it was a really rough night for him. And i think the most important thing about it was that if you watched the debate, he really talked about three things. He talked about himself. Most of all, he talked about her for quite a bit and he talked about joe biden quite a bit. She as much as possible was talking about you, about the american voter, about the american people, and that's the most important difference in this whole campaign that he is focused on himself. And to some extent still even now focused on joe biden. And she is focused on the big question but as we're asking, which is how's my life going to be different under a kamala harris presidency where she's focused on things like affordability a fair tax code, protecting a woman's right to choose versus if he becomes president, again, and we are thrown back to the kind of chaos that we experienced with him the first time around do you think that she needs another debate though because he's obviously a pretty wellknown quality quantity. He's already been president. He's run again. She's much newer to the american electorate. And you see that in the polls when it comes to those undecided voters, does she need another debate closer to election day in your view? i think if the debate went well for her because it was an opportunity to actually talk about the difference in their visions and the difference in their records. But it's not the only way to get that across. And you see her campaigning proactively and energetically around the country to continue to get that message out. You'll see the same from tim walz, of course, and her son quarters and i think that will be the most important element to continuing to take her message to voters and earn this, this victory. You know, she'll be the first to say there is still an underdog dynamic here. She's going to have to work to gain every inch of political ground here. But that's exactly what she's doing. Well, when you ran i mean, you really saturated the media market in the sense of your strategy was to go anywhere to talk to anyone, to really build that name recognition and obviously worked for you. Is that something she should replicate in the sense of interviews, press conferences, not just the campaign trail appearances that we've been seeing. Every candidate figures out a mix and a style that works best for them. Some are more focused on covering a lot of geography and traveling a lot summer focused some more retail, some preferred town halls, some prefer interviews. What i will say is that she has done well in every test that's been thrown at her. I remember early on when she came out of the gate, so well, people said, well, yes, she doing great now. But after the honeymoon week ends, then it won't go so well. And yet she did. And they said well, it's going well for now. But once she sits down for a big interview, things will change. Sat down for a big interview with great. Same thing with the debate. But again, she'll be the first to say that this is going to be a roller coaster. Look eight weeks is in one sense it's the blink of an eye in another sense, it's a political eternity. And every campaign will have good days and bad days advance this is an setbacks and i think she's done a good job of preparing her supporters and her campaign for that. But again, the most important thing is that every day she's talking about the american people, about what she's going to do to continue to create jobs, what she's gonna do to grow small businesses in this country. What she's going to do to help with childcare? the thing that donald trump seems literally almost physically incapable of talking about every time he gets a question about it, you get a strange, ramble that raises the question of whether he's ever actually considered child care policy seriously, she's various about it wants to expand the child tax credit wants to make sure that we have paid parental leave in this country so that's going to continue and i think that's how she's going to win. Yeah. That answer you're referencing is the one he gave to the new york economic club last week that that didn't really provide any alternative any concrete legislation that he would support. That's being polite. It was gibbering. But on the debate itself, obviously debates are good. They are informative. People get a chance to look at these two candidates who one access to the nuclear codes themselves. But from a political calculus, doesn't move the needle any. She had a strong performance on tuesday night, but when you look at there's one major poll that's come out and it's just one, but it doesn't show much of a big shift for her, does it actually boost her standing? what does it look like? i think it matters, but nothing no one night. No one event. No one appearance, no one debate is going to divide this as matter of fact, now, we're getting into the stage of the campaign where the thing that's going to decide at most is that groundwork, that organizing people who believe it is important that she when reaching out to friends doing the doorknocking the things that are really takes to gain that ground. Look for better and for worse in today's america, any presidential campaign is a game of inches. It's high, high floors, low ceilings for both of these candidates. And she knows that. What do you make of what we're hearing from trump's allies? as tonight and trump himself who say whoever calls for a rematch immediately, it's assigned that they lost the debate i don't think anybody well, obviously, they're obliged to say otherwise, but but i don't think anybody objective thinks that she didn't win this debate. Certainly when you look at what independent voters had to say about it, what most americans there had to say about it. But again, look, just because you won the debate, which she did doesn't mean you get to win the election. That's why she got right back out there and is back to work trying to earn more votes. Yeah, that's a good point. People argued hillary clinton won the debates in 2016. Obviously she did not win the election. There was a moment though, on the stage, we were all talking about trump after. And obviously what he was saying thank but there were a few things that harris herself said that stood out to me. Just take a listen to this goldman sachs has said, is that donald trump's plan would make the economy worst. Mine would strengthen the economy in this election, i actually have the endorsement of 200 republicans who have formally worked with president bush, mitt romney, and john mccain including the endorsement of former vice president dick cheney and congress member liz cheney. She also talked about owning a gun and the second amendment. I mean, that is not the kamala harris you saw running in 2019, obviously, a democratic primary then but but what do you make of hearing that from a democratic nominee bragging about goldman sachs of proving their economic plan, a dick cheney endorsement talking about how they owned a firearm she's done a lot to remind democrats of why we're excited about her, but it's also her job to expand the coalition and she's giving us a lot of good reasons why you don't have to be a democrat too. Want her to win. I think pointing out that even the business community, i mean, goldman sachs is about as respected as it gets in a part of the business does this community that's usually considered more conservative, but even they are looking at the trump plan saying this is bad for the economy. She's reminding people that she's not to caricature that they would portray as they always do of any democrats. They're going to come take all your guns away. That's just not true. And i think it's especially notable. A matter of fact, i think on precedented that's so many people from his party are going out there and saying, vote for her. I mean, the idea that you would have a coalition in this country that includes people from people like bernie sanders to people like me to people like dick cheney, all saying for different reasons, but all saying donald trump has no business being president. You got to let kamala harris is important, but the other thing is it's not just republicans who've worked for george bush, who were saying you should vote for kamala harris, a shockingly large proportion of republicans who worked for donald trump people he picked our turning around and saying either not saying anything with holding their endorsement, which itself is very telling, or saying that you really shouldn't be voting for him, that is the most telling thing of all, not just establishment republicans, that he never liked anyway his own people are running screaming for the hills and don't put this guy back in power. I think dick tiny technically, formally endorsed her before bernie sanders has formerly endorsed her there he obviously supports our people. I do want to ask about what's happening in springfield. So stick around if you will. We're going to take a quick break and be right back out of this because from dogs to geas, we are still hearing false claims being made by donald trump about haitian migrants and pets and ohio also, this comes as tonight, some of his top allies are warning him about hanging out with a 911 truther, including one you may not expect america were watching. And then the next day our world change murphy has baby quail has cao owns coming out episodes, it says to the world okay, it's okay to be gay. George bush does not care about black people i never said something that i wrote would lead to a culture war. You didn't shift back like this tv on the edge, moments that shaped our culture from airs sunday, september 22, did nine on cnn but time has come for a fresh approach to dog food every day. 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Com this is cnn the world's news network on the campaign trail in arizona today, donald trump repeated a false claim that haitian immigrants and springfield, ohio are abducting people's pets recording of 911 calls even show residents are reporting that the migrants are walking off with the town's geese they take into geese you know, where the geese are in the park and the leg and even walking off with their pets these people are the worst he is repeating something that he amplified to 67 million people on tuesday night during that debate, except then, of course trump said that they are not only taking pets, but also eating them as officials have said, and we have repeated endlessly on era, there are no credible reports that that is happening people to judge is back with me and i think what's important about this is that this isn't just something that's happening online or on the debate stage. The city hall and springfield, ohio, tay had to be evacuated because of a bomb threat. Luckily, everything was was okay. Hey, but just to see the impact that something like this could be having on people's lives. What do you make of what what's happening? this is a strategy and there's even more to it than demonizing immigrants, although that's obviously part of what he's doing this is a strategy to get us talking about the latest crazy thing that he did, whatever urban legend he amplifies right now, it's about people eating cats are gas or whatever because he cannot afford for us to be talking about his record. He doesn't want us talking about the fact that we lost manufacturing jobs on his watch, even before covid which is why the united auto workers we're against him. He doesn't want us talking about the fact that his main economic policy promise he actually kept was to cut taxes for the rich. He doesn't want us talking about how he demolished the right to choose in this country that he's the reason that even ivf could be banned in many places in this country. The last thing he wants us to do is to talk about his record or his agenda. What he wants us talking about is whatever crazy nonsense he can thrust into the center of the internet and the media conversation which this week happens to be, the stuff about eating cats or dogs, or geese or whatever you think it's just a distraction technique. Yeah. I mean, but it's one that isn't harmless, right? it's effective saying this community and it contributes to this bigger picture of demonizing immigrants. But again, this is strategic. I don't give him credit for much, but whether it's this whether it's blurting out a racist remark in a auditorium full of black journalists as he did a few weeks ago, whether it's choosing 911 of all days to invite a 911 truther who said it was an inside job with him, right? all of these things are to a purpose. And the purpose is to do something so outrageous that we have to talk about it that journalists have to go in if for no other reason than to run it down and debunk it when it's false. And to try to suck up all the oxygen and to that so that we're not talking about his profoundly unpopular policy agenda project 2025. And all of the failures of his actual time in office? yeah. Of course, the project 2025, founder trump, they've tried to distance themselves from that, but it's interesting what you say about why they're saying this. Because i spoke to senator j. D. Vance that's after the debate. And pressed him on this and he said, essentially that they were even if it wasn't true, they were glad they're bringing it up because it drew attention to what's happening in springfield. Listen to what he had to say we heard from a number of constituents on the ground, caitlin hu, both firsthand and secondhand reports saying this stuff is happening, so they very clearly meaning the people on the ground dealing with this, think that it is happening. Senator, you talked about that your office has gotten a lot of reports. I mean, if someone calls your office and says they saw bigfoot, that doesn't mean that he saw bigfoot. Why? i mean, you have a sense of responsibility as a running mate and he certainly does as the candidate to not promote false information, right? kaitlan, it's a totally fair point, but nobody is calling my office and saying that they saw bigfoot, what they're calling and saying is we are seeing migrants kidnap our dogs and cats and city officials aren't doing anything about it. The other part of that answer was he was saying that even if they have to mean their way to get attention on on springfield, which has had 20,000 haitian migrants move there, which is more nuanced than that, how it's been portrayed. He was saying it's basically kind of worth spreading information that may not be true that we know is not true. Know there's lots of different simultaneous reasons why he's going to spread lies. I still think the main one has to do with distracting from their own agenda and the things that make the trumpvance ticket and policies and j. D. Vance, in particular, so unpopular. Now, there's also obviously a pretty dark and twisted picture that he's painting of immigration earlier today, i saw that j. D. Vance went on tv and said that if immigration were part of how countries become prosperous, than quote, america would be the most prosperous country in the world, which makes me wonder what country does jd fan, fans think is the most prosperous country in the world since he doesn't think it's america and also does he really think that immigration has nothing to do with american prosperity? most americans disagree by the way. Most americans also disagree with donald trump's decision to kill the bipartisan border bill that kamala harris so it's pledged that she would sign if it came to her. So rather than have us talking about that, he wants us talking about people allegedly eating cats, which is not happening. And then the other thing they'll do, of course, is because this is a country of 300 million people, they'll probably sooner or later find some case where somebody somewhere did some weird do a cat and try to make that into a reason to prolong this debate so that we could be talking about anything but donald trump's track record of destroying jobs in this country and destroying the right to choose and the fact that if given the chance to do so again, that's what he would double down on. You brought up the helm, trump sunk the bipartisan immigration plan that lankford and murphy in others put together harris brought that up to on the debate stage. It's been the one point that she turns to on immigration, which is one of her weakest polling areas, immigration and the economy is that enough for voters to just say, well, trump sunk this plan that didn't come about until about earlier this year, february or march, and therefore he's being hipaa critical or do voters deserve to hear more about what she would do on immigration? well, i think certainly it's an important data point from the past that tells you how unserious they are about solving the problem. In fact, they need the problem to get worse so they can keep campaigning on it. But i do agree that every election is about the future that's why she talked about what she would do if a bill like that came to her desk every issue that we're talking about, the recent past, it's with a view toward the future. So for example when she points out the fact that in this administration, they were able to get the cost of insulin for seniors down to $35. It's not just that that's the thing that happened. And therefore, we should be rewarded politically. It's that if republicans stopped to blocking us, we could have $35 a month insulin for every american. And not only for seniors. And whether it's an issue like that an issue like climate, where it's not just that we had the inflation reduction act passed, it was major climate legislation, but in the next few years, all of these auto manufacturing jobs and clean energy jobs happening in places like northern indiana where i grew up, will either be destroyed by donald trump gutting that legislation or those jobs will continue to grow by somebody serious about climate change that's what's going to happen next. So i do agree that on issue after issue the past is a source of evidence on what will happen next. But the most important thing is what will happen in the future. And another big theme of the debate was kamala harris talking about the future and representing even a generational contrast about the past. She was asked, would you have done something differently than help president biden did? i mean, for example, he did not sign that the executive orders curbing asylum and taking these tougher actions border until in the last few months, some people may look at that and say, well, she was there the last 3. 5 years. Should there have been more action sooner? lows executive orders were a response to congress failing. Although congress tried because donald trump went in, intervened and prevented any progress from being made. But again, the one is what's going to happen next. She has been clear what she will do next, and we're also pretty clear, by the way, you know, who wasn't clear on what they're going to do next. As president, whenever the going got tough with donald trump, he was given the opportunity to say whether he wanted ukraine to defeat russia, and he wouldn't say it. He wouldn't say they want ukraine to win he was given the opportunity to say, if he would veto a national abortion ban and he didn't say that he would veto it, which to me is a pretty strong indication that he would sign it. Yeah. Pete buttigieg. Thank you so much for your time tonight for being here. Thank you. Up next as mr. Buttigieg just mentioned, it is a conspiracy theorist who said 911 was an inside job and a big red meme. Now she wasn't the 911 memorial yesterday with donald trump. We're going to take a clotake a closer look atn you see here on your screen. Saturday's this whole scene in a stricken a break from breaking news to air. Have i got news for you? breaking news. I'm getting a sandwich. We need to talk about what khan's breaking news provide, got news for you, premiere saturday at nine on cnn and streaming next day on max you love this style of shoe. They're comfortable casuals, stylish, but sketches is taught them and made them even better because now they come in handsfree schedule slipping just slipping and go with no bending down and no touching and try handsfree sketcher slip welcome to the now way to network. They switched the juniper is ai native network, and now everything is so reliable that no one has ever left in the dark. That's the now waiting network at work with real ai for experience of folate thought as i agree. Let's give her complex out of my head. With ryan understanding like this you found it the feeling of findings, psoriasis can't filter out the real you. 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I think there are a huge problem and that doesn't represent maga as a whole she's talking there about laura loomer. You may not know this name unless you're on the internet, but she was seen her getting off donald trump's plane in philadelphia just before the debate on tuesday she was then part of his entourage the next day, september 11, the 23rd anniversary of the attacks, accompanying him to the 911 ceremonies that day. That is despite how she wants described the worst terror attack on american soil as a quote, inside job yes, through really did look the post there she told cnn today that she didn't see what the issue is about her going to the 911 memorial with donald trump and all of this may not exactly be surprising to you if you're listening given the rotating cast of people who are often buying to place themselves. And donald trump's orbit i've talked to the former president couple of times. I talked to the president as much as i need to have now spoke with the president and i spoke with the president on monday night but those are republican politicians. Trump's history of meeting with extremist is visible from the guest list of his clubs at times. Remember when he dined with nick fuentes at maralago, someone who is a white supremacist and holocaust denier here's donald trump with loomer toasting what they said was the hostile takeover. This is loomer and fuentes. I should note, toasted what they said was the hostile takeover of the republican party meantime the rapper formerly known as kanye west, who made white nationalist and antisemitic comments, also got a white house meeting once and was seen at maralago the question is, why is this outraging trump's allies? now, people like marjorie taylor greene and lindsey graham, we've been talking to people. It's because loomer has the president's ear at a moment where he's in a tightly locked race against vice president harris. And a lot of them fear that she's going to be a distraction are you you look so beautiful as always a woman with courage? you don't want to be, you want to be lured to be lured main, something like this facing one of the protests that she has spent years the staging, like when she handcuffed herself outside of the twitter headquarters or when she went to iowa before the caucus is there to confront governor ron desantis in a hotel lobby? that was when she was accusing his wife of playing up her breast cancer diagnosis to generate sympathy. Laura loomer has backed conspiracy theories about vaccines, celebrated the deaths of migrants, and also made false claims about employees of the federal government and the new york judge who handled the trump hush money case. Just to name a few, here's how he talks about her it's great to have you you are very opinionated, lady new york times reporters, maggie haberman and jonathan swan reported in april las year that trump wanted to hire her officially for his campaign. Outrage and sued over that report and ultimately didn't happen. But maybe it didn't need to my sources are from the left and the right tonight, paul begala and sarah chamberlain, thankfully not conspiracy theorists and sara thinking about this, i don't think it's a surprise. Trump likes laura loomer. I've talked to people about this. She talks to her a lot definitely it's not the first time she's been on the plane lately. But i think when his political allies look at this you know, these two months before the election, they want to bring in moderate voters. Does this help with that? absolutely does not. It kind of scares them. She has her place. She fires up his base and obviously he enjoys her company. But right now to win the election, he needs to the middle of the road. There republicans who aren't with them yet, the haley people. And then he needs middle of the road democrats are willing to switch over and then the independents, none of this helps in that i mean, she just turned some off. I was in nebraska it's good last night. They're like who is this woman? and why would we vote for a man who keeps her close by? and he needs to win these people as one electorial vote there where i was last night, and i think the question i've heard from pupil paul is the influence she has on him? i mean, donald trump says enough things on his own. I think even his closest allies would, would agree with to that but what she says and what he repost and, you know, we're at a moment where they're blaming haitian migrants for abducting, abducting pets were not the idea of the bad influences on him, makes even worse for those around him. What he seeks them out doesn't mean he is a former president. He can get advice from anyone he wants. Well, we have to country okay. Half the country can't stand it, but have country 40% loves him why he used to have oh, say, rex tillerson, he ran the largest corporation in the world, exxonmobil, secretary of state. You know what he said? mr. Trump is an fing moron. He had jim mattis, fourstar general what did he say? he said trump has the understanding of a fifth or sixth grader had general hr mcmaster, who called him an idiot a dope on and on. I could go on. He had quality people. I wouldn't agree with him on politics or policy, but they're quality people and they've all run away from him like the double runs from holy water. So he's down now to the laura the worst of the world because that's where he wants to get advice. I mean, marjorie taylor greene, who herself was not a stranger to conspiracies, which she later apologized for. It said cheap. She was reading this information fed misinformation. She, laura loomer have had a longstanding feud, which i think is part of what you're seeing today. But for her to come out and say hey this is bad stuff. Does does tell you something? no. Sure. Does. I mean, she's very controversial in her own right so we need to pay attention to her. She knows she wants donald trump to win. We want to get the white house. We're not going to do it this way. We've got to go get those independents. You know what else she knows? her state of georgia has a surge in population of asianamerican pacific islanders. Turnout in that community in georgia jumped at 4% between 2016 and 2020, it is booming there and i maybe i'm describing too much political acumen congresswoman greene, maybe not i know the data though. This is where the voters are many of them are very moderate. They are definitely in play. There predominantly democratic now, but they are in play and it could be that the current there's something from georgia knows that georgia has this huge pool and rising every day that turnout i just i just looked up registration rather is through the roof api americans as well yeah it's a remarkable moment. We'll leave it there and see if we continue to see you're flying around with the former president paul begala, sarah term whelan. Thank you both. Tonight, harris and trump are both staking out different, but potential paths to 270. They're in two different battleground states, north carolina and arizona we're going to take a closer look at where the numbers stand. We've got to political insiders here with us on which of these candidaandidates has t clearest path to victory? cnn central tomorrow at 7:00 eastern did you know taking xyz all that night, release allergies while you sleep you wake refreshed for more productive day 24 hours, continuous relief it does not fade. 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It wasn't alito gurney are happy priceline from need the dot ways to say life ready, wallet, happy. That's 365 by whole foods market, the ups store is more than just the shipment store where the packet shipping guarantee it store. We know running a small business takes a lot of grit and hustle so where the stress less store and the we've got your back store because when you trust us to pack and ship, week guaranteed so it'll get into the hands of your customers, seek which is wide with the stamp out word guaranteed store coming to the ups store today and be unstoppable i'm just telling everyone by one pair, get one free for backtoschool vision works. See the difference tonight, we are seeing the first major poll that was conducted since the trump era showdown on tuesday night. The postdebate survey from reuters and ipsos shows vice president harris with a slight edge over former president trump, which means that, right? now there is little change in the state of the presidential race. That's about where things stood two weeks ago. Now, of course, more could change in the coming days this is just one poll and we always say polls are just a snapshot. But both candidates were certainly campaigning like it's a tight race today out and respective battleground states, you see harris on the right she's touring in north carolina, which trump won narrowly in 2020. But her camp believes is in play in 2024. Meanwhile trump was on rallying and arizona relitigating his 2020 election loss, in that state, a state that he won in 2016. My sources tonight at the table, our two political insiders democratic pollster, margie omero, and the editor and publisher of inside elections, nathan gonzalez. So much. When you see what happens on tuesday night, the pundants agree and seemed to believe that that harris won that debate. Should there be a noticeable polling bounce this close or is there ever going to be when what does that normally look like? well, it takes a little while because one pulse, take a little while to conduct and their people are processing the news as they're hearing it's not just watching the debate as it's happening. They're also getting, they may have only watched a little bit the debate or not watched the debate and hearing what people thought, seeing clips watching on tiktok whatever it is. And then by the time they are called by a pollster and then that poll comes out of the field and is launched out into the world that may not be a week or so after the debate. So it's not a surprise to me that the change that we see is small or within the margin of error because it may take a little while now, if there is any change because ultimately they're going to be voters who are going to view a debate through the lens of the candidate that they supported before the debate started and democrats are going to emerge feeling pretty excited like i did watching the debate. And there may be republicans who emerge saying, this is what i like about donald trump. Yeah. And it's just small slice of the electorate that were really even looking that are the undecided voters, right? and i'm just, i'm skeptical with the proximity to the debate. Like what marjorie was talking about, but also, i feel like a broken record. It's a national poll and we don't have a national election in this country. So let's wait a few days and let's start to get polls out of north carolina, arizona, nevada, wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, and see how those voters, the independent voters in those key seven states. How do they react to the debate? and did it matter? what did you hear from trump today when he was on the trail in arizona in what? in appealing to those voters and who they are trying to i mean, relitigating the 2020 election is not a winning strategy and we know part of this specifically in arizona because kari lake, the candidate, the republican nominee, who lost in 2022, gubernatorial race. She wouldn't, she can't give that up, that she lost that. And that is hurt her standing if she had just lost that close race and moved on, she would probably be in stronger position in the senate race this year, but trump's using the same strategy and i don't think that's going to be effective in arizona. I think she's still disputing it. Still was embarked don on her her senate campaign and marching when you look at pennsylvania, obviously that has been an area that is a mustwin for either of these two candidates. And this has been something that we've been trying to drill in on when it comes to voters and what this looks like. They are harris had her own strategy there. I just want you to listen to what she had to say about this at the debate would be sitting in kyiv with his eyes on the rest of europe, starting with poland. And why don't you tell the 800,000 polish americans right here in pennsylvania how quickly you would give up for the sake of favor. And what you think is a friendship with what is known to be a dictator who would eat you for lunch i mean, the 800,000 polish americans living in pennsylvania was a very targeted shout out for you. Don't via right? right. And then looked, she's demonstrating this is the difference between here harris and trump, and that's a bay, but also all the rest of the time, which is she's speaking to the american people. She looked at the camera. She's talking to voters. She's telling stories about different kinds of voters. She's talking about what her plan would be to help americans and he's talking about himself. He's talking about himself, how grady is you know, what? how much he inherited where he went to school or whatever it is. He's talking about himself in a way that is, people are, you know, don't, don't seem to like anymore in pennsylvania looked like it was a mustwin for biden. And it has traditionally been a mustwin for the democratic candidate. If she, but it looks like it's being stubborn for harris. I mean, it seems like she hasn't bounced back quite as much compared to the other swing states. Yes, she's underwater there compared to a michigan or wisconsin that is. Well, if she doesn't win pennsylvania, he needs to win north carolina or georgia. And the fact that we're talking about north carolina now is a that's a difference between where the race was with biden versus trump north carolina and looked like it was solidly with trump and now it's a tossup and that's good news. Does she need to have north carolina and georgia? i think you need to win four of the seven tossups and at least i think she can do it with a combination of other states. Would north carolina or georgia, or what do you see about i mean, that's one path to 270. What are you see? yeah. I mean, look the icc by expanding the map, you're creating more opportunities in her also forcing the other side too. Who spend money and resources to keep up. And so that's what you're seeing. And that's a strategy that all campaign's up and down the ticket are doing to make sure that they are where they need to be, but also for saying the other side's to spend resources that maybe they didn't want to spend. And how does that help with what harris raised in they'll 24 hours since the debate it's 47 million. If not totally misstating that number. But i believe that's in the neighborhood of what the harris campaign says she raised in those 24 hour mean, the more money you have, the more places you're able to communicate. Some of these states are going to be so saturated, they're going to be looking for other places. Probably the big prize of democrats have a lot of money is can they reach back into florida and pull florida back? i can play. I don't think it's there yet, but that would be huge. Well, on top of that, when you talk about, for example, arizona in north carolina, those are states that are about 20% voters of color, hispanic voters, and black voters. And so the targeting, it's great to have options, right? and more money gives you options to do that kind of targeting an outreach to those communities to make sure getting out the vote poor souls and pennsylvania, i got a glimpse of the ads. They are non stop and tv channels. Margie omero, nathan gonzalez, great to have you both. Thank you so much up next the u. S. Government is now preparing tonight to have criminal charges in the hacking of the trump campaign. A story we've been following closely here it is backed by iran will tell you he more about what those charges could look like right after a quick break couples choose asleep number smart bet. Can it keep me warm when i'm cold wake know, i'm always hot. Sleep, never does that can i make my side softer? i like my side firmer speak number does your ideal firmness and effortless comfort all night. 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Easily transfer your services in the xfinity app. Bring on the good stuff. Certain news with abby phillip next on cnn closed captioning brought to you by mesobook. Com if you or a loved one have mesothelial, will send you a free book to answer questions you may have call now and we'll come to you, 808 to 14000 tonight. The justice department is preparing to file criminal charges against iranian hackers who carried out a complex hack and leak operation against the trump campaign. Officials believed that the hackers work for israel, iran's islamic revolutionary guard was what was behind it. And they specific typically targeted internal trump campaign emails and documents, all an attempt to influence the 2024 election. We are told tonight these charges could come as soon as next week. My source tonight is chris krebs, who served as the nation's top election security official before he was fired by donald trump for saying that the 2020 election was safe and secure. Cure on these charges that we're told there imminent first, what do you make of the impact it and are they actually followed by arrest indictments. I mean, what does this look like? well, that tends to be the challenge because these hackers, whether they're iranian or the russian hackers we heard about last week out of the svr, the military intelligence unit they stay in safe haven, safe harbors. There is no extradition treaty with russia or with iran so they tend to be beyond arm's length of american law enforcement. However, they are constrained two, iran or russia. And they will not be leaving because if they do touch ground in france, for instance, or somewhere else, they will get swooped up. But there are a couple other elements of these indictments. They are very clear messaging in signaling tools. These, hey, we know who you are. We're seeing inside you're infrastructure. We know how you're operating in the fact that they can pull together an indictment so quickly? yes, they may have been starting they may have started the investigation back in june, but the fact they're able to pull together an indictment potentially for unsealing next week shows that law enforcement and intelligence community are poised. They're ready to go and they are taking it very seriously. Firstly, in what is a very serious election, does that work as a deterrence of sword? i mean, there's obviously saying this you know, we're eight months or weeks out from the election and that's the concern i think people have, is what does this activity look like the closer we get to november, it is a deterrence measure. Its deterrence by cost imposition. Now, you may not, again, be arresting them, but you're constraining them within geographic boundaries. They are staying within iran. But again, we are showing them that we know how they operate. We are uncovering and tearing down likely some of the command and control infrastructure that they are using to launch these hacks. And that to share the stolen information nation, we are exposing it. We're taking it off the table and it is causing them to use their energy, their own time, and resources to rebuild their infrastructure. One thing that's notable about this is how, you know, in 2016 the doj was caught flatfooted. The intelligence community overall was caught flat footed. It seemed by by the level of russian interference and, the election of what that ultimately looks like. What do you make of how they're officials? maybe not always on the record, but but in indictments and statements are talking about what they're seeing happening to these campaigns. Well, there has been an kind of an ark of improvements since 2016. So you'll recall in 2020, there were hackers that were out of a a proxy unit for the intelligence services in iran that pretended to be the trump, were rather the proud boys. They sent intimidating emails out to voters in several states. They found confidential data that again, that was exposed in about 72 hours. We were i was at the department of justice alongside fbi director wray and the director of national intelligence, ratcliffe. And we said, these are iranians. They're doing this americans take this seriously, but also we're looking out for it, though. There were subsequent indictments there. We are seeing an even faster unveiling now that in my view is good, that we're deep, there were investigating were on top of it and we're declassifying rapidly to call out bad actors but also convey to the american people that we are taking this seriously. We are ready to go and we're going to protect this election. But does it worry you? are we going to see more of this, more attempts at election interference before november? i think it's because without saying yeah, absolutely. This is a key point because these are not ad hoc oneoff activities. So the hackandleak against the trump campaign was not a single event. It's part of a bigger strategy. They tried it against the biden campaign at the time as well. It is just one kind of i had a tweet about this the other day or x or whatever we're calling it. But he said mckinsey phi, the strategy of iran and russia, they have entire strategies with workstream james and this was one workstream amongst multiple. Now, whether those are successful or they land remains to be seen, but we should absolutely expect multiple other activities, both out of iran, russia, and even in china and beyond. Yeah, i mean, we saw part of this was we reported that they targeted one of trump's attorneys. Yes. It doesn't here it was successful, but they're targeting key people. Yeah, look, they're going to go at those that erie, they're either in the immediate orbit of the former president or those that are right outside of it that had the access and ability to reach in. And again, we should expect more of this, not just up to the election, but after it, chris krebs, thank you for that. A quick programming note here before we go, comedians, roy wood junior and others are going to be on cnn saturday night, and new