In congress. Enjoy book tv and watch over the weekend on cspan2. [inaudible conversations] good afternoon, everyone, welcome to the Henry Wallace center here at Franklin Roosevelt president ial library and museum. Id like to welcome you to todays program. As you know today a pearl harbor day and i would like to take a moment to recognize those who served, if there are any active members or military rise and well acknowledge your service. [applause] thank you very much. Today is a day that marked the transition of america from an isolationist nation to a global super power and there are a few days in World History like december 7th because of what it meant for the world we live in today, really, in so many ways. Were very fortunate to be able to honor today with a Wonderful Program on a new book that has just came out. How many of members here . If youre a member, raise your hand. Wow, look at that, great. Your support makes these programs possible. Its because of members and our trustees like you that we can do these programs and last year, cliff lobby, who is our programs manager, we put on 58 programs here at the library, which is very impressive. [applause] and again, because of your support, we can have the programs for free and its a way to give back to the community because we feel so he strongly at that fdr loved this area and he wanted to be viewed in this way and honoring his wishes. Our speaker today, lew paper is a journalist and he taught at harvard and he was involved with georgetown, but hes also written a number of very interesting books. Hes the author of perfect, which is don larsons a back with don larsons world series, anybody remember that . Perfect pitch world series. And then a book about john f. Kennedy and i didnt have a chance to talk to him. He then wrote a novel about john f. Kennedy deadly risks, about his assassination, he wrote a nonfiction and a fiction book, i bet theyre a good combination. He wrote a book called empire, about william paily and if you dont know, cbs. And his power rivals that of fdr and one of the most powerful media moguls in america and another on a Supreme Court justice so he has a deep grounding in 20th century American History which allows him to bring a fresh perspective on the book hes here to talk about today. In the cauldron, terror, tension and pearl harbor, this is a complicated period and a complicated story how president roosevelt was trying to navigate this transition from america being an isolationist neutral country when he wanted to get into this war, but he didnt really want to get into the war with japan because he wanted to get into the war with germany, but of course, american policy was forcing a decision one way or another. So youre going to hear a fantastic story. The book is in the cauldron, there will be a book signing afterwards. Please welcome lew paper. [applaus [applause]. Well, thank you all for coming. When paul said he was going to introduce me, i had only one request, i said, i dont care if its true or not, just make me look good. [laughter] and i think he did a great job. But i do want to thank paul and cliff for the invitation to be here. Its a great honor and im very privileged and very flattered to have received the invitation. Being here has a special meaning for me. When i was a little boy, my father talked to me all the time about president roosevelt. And the reason my father talked to me about president roosevelt was because i had been stricken about polio as a little boy and my father wanted me to know that polio would not prevent me from being a success in life. And he had no better example, of course, than president roosevelt. I was very fortunate. My polio was not as severe as president roosevelts and later when i got a little older, my father brought me here to the library and museum. It was a very special trip. I was awestruck by the place and i can only say i wish my father could be here with me today. I think he would really enjoy it. But enough about these personal matters. Pearl harbor, weve all seen that film of president roosevelt standing in the well of the United States house of representatives on december 8th, 1941 saying that december 7th, 1941 is a date that will live in infamy because of japans surprise attack on the u. S. Naval base at pearl harbor. Theres no evidence that president roosevelt or his cabinet knew in advance specifically that japan would attack pearl harbor. But they should not have been surprised that japan would attack the United States. In november, 1941 only a few weeks before pearl harbor, joseph grew sent two telegrams to secretary of state cordell hall warning him at that japan was prepared to launch a suicidal war against the United States and that Armed Conflict could come with dangerous and dramatic suddenness. So who was joseph grew and how did he know that . In november, 1941 joseph grew was 61 years old, tall, lean, bushy eyebrows, a full mustache. He had been an american diplomate for almost 40 years and he had been americas ambassador to japan should i be using this one. Can you hear me better now . Oh, okay. Im glad i recognized i was using the wrong microphone, in any event, joseph grew had been an american diplomate for almost 40 years. He had been americas ambassador to japan for almost 10 years. There were four factors that led grew to send those two telegrams to secretary of state cordell hall in november, 1941. The first factor was the japanese economy. The United States had imposed economic sanctions on japan in an effort to curb japans military aggression in china and in Southeast Asia. Those economic sanctions had crippled the japanese economy. Rice was being rationed. There was no gasoline for cars. The few cars that traversed tokyo streets had to be fitted with charcoal engines. Imported coffee was also unavailable. It had been replaced by another brew about which the New York Times correspondent said, it was better not to ask too many questions. There was a second factor that led grew to send those telegrams to secretary of state cordell hall in november, 1941, that was the japanese mindset. Grew knew that a crippled economy would lead to a sense of desperation among the japanese and a sense of desperation would lead to war. It was all part of that samurai do or die spirit that still prevailed in japan. Grew knew that for japanese leaders a ni annihilation in a suicidal war was better than the humiliation of succumbing to american pressure. Theres a story that illustrates that japanese mindset. In the fall of 1941 grew received word from the American Embassy in china about a japanese soldier who had been captured by the chinese troops in the fighting there. The japan soldier came from a welltodo family and he wanted his family back in japan to know that he was alive and well. Grew passed the word on to the japanese government and he soon received a reply, the japanese government said that neither it nor this mans family were interested. As far as they were concerned, that japanese soldier was dead because, said the government, any japanese soldier who had allowed himself to be captured, had dishonored his family and dishonored his government. There was a third factor that led grew to send those telegrams to cordell hull in november 1941 and that concerned the japanese leaders ability to control the japanese population. If i was writing a book about nazi germany, i would not have to tell you about the brutality of the government. Japan was also a very repressive society. Secret police were everywhere. Surveillance was pervasive. No dissent was allowed. An indiscrete word uttered to a friend, a neighbor, a Family Member and the person could find themselves arrested, thrown in jail and subjected to a horrific torture. Grew understood this, if japanese leaders issued a command to launch a suicidal war against the United States, the japanese people would obey that command and they would fight to the death. Theres a fourth factor that led grew to send those telegrams in 1941 and it was to secretary of sta secretary of state cordell hull, for them of the differences between the two countries. And notwithstanding that spirit japanese recognized war with the United States. And they supported an initiative in the spring of 1941 to have discussions with hull in washington to see if the two countries could reach an agreement. For his part secretary of state cordell hull knew there was virtually no chance of japan and the United States reaching an agreement. Hull regarded japan as one of the Worst International desperados in the history of mankind. He subscribed to the view that no promises of the japs as he called them, on paper would be worth anything. But hull could not tell that to the japanese representatives who came to washington d. C. Why . Because in the spring of 1941, americas military capabilities were woefully inadequate. And so president roosevelt and the military chiefs urged hull to drag those conversations out with the japanese as long as possible to give the United States time to bolster its military capabilities and to defer or delay any conflict in the pacific for which the United States was not prepared. And so thats what hull did. From the spring through the summer, into the fall of 1941, he spent untold hours talking with japanese representatives about an agreement that he knew probably would never come to fruition. By the fall of 1941, grew reported to hull from tokyo that japanese leaders were very frustrated about the lack of progress and discussions and that the japanese leaders were beginning to sense that the United States was not really interested in an agreement and that the United States was merely playing for time, but for japan, time was running out. In those months before pearl harbor, grew made many recommendations to president roosevelt and secretary of state cordell hull about things they could do that might avoid the war that grew saw coming. Very few of grews recommendations were acknowledged, none was accepted. Why . Because back in the United States and especially in washington, people could not believe that japan would directly attack the United States. The United States was so much larger in terms of population and resources. People in washington and elsewhere thought, it would be utterly stupid for japan to directly attack the United States. And so, grew would later write that american policy in those months before pearl had an are harbor was completely inflectionable and that his reporting to the government from tokyo was like throwing pebbles into a lake at night. When pearl harbor occurred, as you might imagine, joseph grew was very frustrated and very bitter because he felt that the Roosevelt Administration had squandered a chance to possibly avoid war. When pearl had rbor did occur, grew and other members of the embassy in tokyo were immediately taken and placed as prisoners of war and placed in the embassy in tokyo for about six months while japan and United States worked ought a Diplomatic Exchange agreement. So american diplomates in japan could return to the United States and japanese diplomates in the United States could return to japan. During the six months that he was held as a prisoner of war, joseph grew report a 60 page report that detailed his criticism of american policy in the months before pearl harbor. Grew planned to give that report to president roosevelt and secretary of state cordell hull when he returned to the United States. But it never happened. When grew returned to the United States in august, 1942, he showed the report to secretary of state cordell hull. Hull glanced at the report. Hull immediately saw that the report criticized decisions which hull had made in the months before pearl harbor. Hull immediately demanded that grew destroy that report. As a subordinate official in the state department, grew felt he had no choice, but to agree to hulls demand and so he destroyed that report. I should add theres no evidence that president roosevelt knew about the report or its destruction. For his part, grew never publicly acknowledged the destruction of the report. Even when he was asked in a postwar congressional hearing whether he had prepared any report to give to hull upon his return to the United States. Thank you for that indulgence. So how did i come to write this book about joseph grew and pearl harbor . About six years ago, i was going to write a book about america in 1941. It was the pivotal year for the country. Franklin d. Roosevelt had been inaugurated for an unprecedented third term as president. The uaw had signed its first contract with a car manufacturer. The new york yankees, joe dimaggio hit safely in 56 consecutive games, a record which still stands and of course, japan attacked pearl harbor. In the course of my research i came across the name of joseph grew and his effort to orchestrate an agreement between japan and the United States to avoid the war he saw coming. I was intrigued. And the more i researched, the more i realized, that grews story had never been told. And so i switched gears to tell that story. In writing this book, i wanted to bring the characters alive for the reader. Take president roosevelt, hes a central figure in this drama. When you see roosevelt standing in the well of the United States house of representatives on december 8th, 1941, saying that december 7, 1941 is a date that will live in infamy, he looks so strong. He sounds so vibrant, and yet, as we discussed, here is a man who had been stricken by polio and could not walk. I was thinking about it when i was writing the book. You and i, we get up in the morning, we go to the bathroom, we do our business, we come back, we get dressed, we go about our day. Roosevelt could not do all of that without assistance. And that assistance was not going to be provided by his wife eleanor. She had her own bedroom down the hall at the white house and more than that, she was almost always travelling. Instead roosevelt relayed on a valet. Roosevelt had two valets during his 12 years in the white house and i thought, wouldnt it be great if i could find some commentary from those valets about what roosevelt was like in those private moments with his valet . And i was able to find that commentary. I learned that in those private moments with his valet, roosevelt almost always displayed a sweet, am dmeheable disposition. He had the pityman, he was a good looking guy and although he was married, roosevelt liked to tease him about being a ladies man and every time he would tease him about being a ladies man, he would respond, one does not refute the chief executive, mr. President. I wanted to provide that same intimacy in talking about joseph grew. To do that, i talked to many members of his family. His grand children, his cousins, his greatgrandchildren. They told me many stories that were very useful. One story stood out because it displayed grews diplomatic skills and his stature. It was january, 1949. Grew was asked to provide some remarks at a dinner in honor of general george c. Marshall who was retiring as secretary of state. General marshall had been chief of the army during world war ii. After the war truman appointed him as secretary of state. Now in january of 1949, general marshall was going to retire to his farm in virginia with his wife. In the audience was general dwight d. Eisenhower and his wife mamie. Im sure you all know general eisenhower is the one that led the allied invasion in normandy. In his Closing Remarks in honor of general marshall, grew said all he wants to do is retire to his farm in virginia with mrs. Eisenhower. Well as soon as he said that, people began to laugh. Grew immediately recognized his mistake, and quickly and cooley said my apologies to the general and at that point general eisenhower blurted out, which general . I did not rely solely on discussions with members of grews family. I also had access to a lot of documents. No document was more important than grews diary. This guy was incredibly disciplined. Through his long diplomatic career, almost every evening during the week and on weekends, he would sit at his desk, his pipe clenched between his teeth, his smith corona typewriter in front of him and he would write out what had happened. What had been said, what he had thought in the previous day. I had access to thousands of pages of grews diary. I knew almost everything he did, everything he said, and everything he thought in those months before pearl harbor. I knew what time he got up in the morning. I knew that his favorite scotch whiskey was Johnnie Walker red, and i knew, too, about his very deep feelings for his wife alice. And in fact, in many respects, this book is a love story. When joseph grew married alice perry in 1904, she was a tall, vivacious beautiful woman with long, dark hair. Alice came from a prominent family in boston, but she had little formal education because the family was always travelling. But alice was very smart and she had a lot of opinions and alice wanted to share those opinions with her husband. And he was willing to listen. Grew told his daughters that he rarely sent out an Important Message or a communication, or rarely did anything of any consequence without consulting alice. But alice was a Formidable Force in her own right. That was illustrated by a story told by grews private secretary. It concerned a social evening at the American Embassy in tokyo, shortly before pearl harbor. The grews invited over for dinner, sir robert kregy, British Ambassador to japan, and his wife. The grews liked sir robert kregy, the grews did not like lady kregy, they thought she was a nasty woman. In any event, at the social occasions at the embassy in tokyo, the grews will often show a movie after dinner. The problem was the projector they used to show the movie was often breaking down. On this particular occasion as grews and the kregyes were watching the movie the projector again broke down. When it did, lady kregy turned to alice and said, isnt it unfortunate, my dear, that that machine of yours is always breaking down . Without skipping a beat alice turned to lady kregy and said, yes, but isnt it great that we have no important guests tonight . [laughte [laughter] i tried to provide that same intimacy in describing the other characters in this drama, both american and japanese, and if you read the book, you will see that the attack at pearl harbor was not merely a clash of governments, it was the product of the personalities, the perspectives, and the prejudices of people like you and me. And if you read this book, it will change the way you look at pearl harbor. So i want to thank you for coming and if people have questions if anybody has any questions, ill be happy to answer any questions anyone might have. Just keep it clean. Theres i think theres a microphone. [applaus [applause] i just have a couple of questions. One of the things that the japanese are fairly wellknown for is their resourcefulness. Now, forgive me, but we all, i think, pretty much drove here today and were all aware of the price of gas. Back in those days, the japanese one of the primary sources of their fuel for their, not only their navy, but their army and so on, their domestic use pretty much came from the United States. It seems like the british, the germans with their raiders steaming around the Southeast Asia coast, they didnt have any problem getting fuel for their ships. The british didnt have any problem getting fuel for their ships. In 1937 the japanese attempted to get an Oil Consortium agreement with southeast timor. Portugese, and nothing seemed to happen. Why couldnt the japanese buy fuel from the nei, in other words, indies, the and there are a series of islands flush with oil, still flush with oil today . Why do they have to come 5,000 miles across the pacific and 5,000 miles back . Thats a good question. I realize that doesnt pertain exactly to what you were talking about. He had been there for 10 years and i cant help, but think somewhere along the line, maybe you guys ought to think of another fuel source rather than the u. S. Grew certainly wasnt going to help the japanese in that regard. Notwithstanding what i said, grew, i dont want to have a misrepresentation here, grew was a patriot and as the ambassador to the United States he saw his motion to promote peace because he had been in the Berlin Embassy in germany during world war i. He understood the consequence of war. He into you what war brought and so he was desperate to try to avoid war, know the to advance the cause of the japanese, but to protect america. And to go to your question, so, grew would not have given the japanese any advice about that, but the japanese, youre expect, are resourceful and they did per pursue other alternatives like the east indies, and they were stymied everywhere they went, in part in part because the United States recognized what you just said and the United States worked with Dutch East Indies and other countries to provide to prevent japan from running around the embargoes and the sanctions which the United States had imposed because if japan could be resourceful and get around it, then of course, the sanctions would not be effective. And the United States government was very much aware of that. And i just have one other question since you were able to see all of these this diary, that mr. Grew kept, with a there any mention of a perp by the way, did he keep a diary like that not only when he was in japan, but throughout his whole time . Yes. Was there any mention in that diary of a person by the name of tyler kent . Youre really testing me now. I cant remember the name, quite frankly, but you know, you can go i should say for those of you who are interested in the book, you can go to my website, lew paper, lewpaper, lewpaper. Com. If you go to my website, theres a fuller description of the book and you can see some reviews and also you can see a video about the book. I know it doesnt sound like a blockbuster, but there is a video about the book on the website. The reason i bring it up to are this gentleman and for any of you. If you have questions after you leave here today, and say, gee, i wished i had asked him this or that, you can go to my website and you can reach me through my website and i promise you, if you send me a question, i will do my best to answer it promptly. Thank you. Youre welcome. Thank you. Before i lead to the question. Called the japanese desperados. And it was more than that, other countries were aware happening in china. This wasnt just a mere battle of fights going on. This was destruction of horrendous proportions. Youve said that cordell hull had made certain mistakes as with repeated in his paper. Is there anything in the diary that show what the mistakes were . And would anything have happened . First of all, youre quite right. The japanese military, they engaged in they were brutal and they engaged in quite a number of atrocities, what we call the rape of nanking where thousands of chinese civilians were raped, murdered, beaten, and it was beyond it was unspeakable and so that was the army and they did do very bad things. But i would say this, that the United States, grew understood that and he accepted that, again, grew was looking out for the United States and he did not want the United States to become involved in a war if they could avoid it with maintaining their integrity. In terms of what hull did, hull refused and ill give you my perspective, this is grews perspective. Grew felt certainly in retrospect that secretary of state hull was not receptive to discussions which grew had made that grew thought would avoid the war and so, in terms of the mistakes, one of the mistakes that he made from grews perspective was concerns a meeting that grew that the japanese Prime Minister had requested a meeting with president roosevelt and this is in the summer and fall of 1941. And this Prime Minister had a unique stature and he commanded respect among all the competing factions in japan. And he told grew that he was prepared to go to the United States and meet with roosevelt on american soil, anywhere roosevelt wanted, and that he would give the president concessions to reach an agreement to avoid war because this Prime Minister desperately wanted to avoid war and in his camp was the emperor. Japan had an emperor who was revered throughout japan and in those days, i think the emperor truly wanted a diplomatic resolution and the Prime Minister told grew if he could meet with roosevelt he had the support of the emperor to stop the fighting of japanese troops in china. Hull did not want roosevelt to meet with the Prime Minister and he convinced roosevelt not to meet with the Prime Minister. Roosevelt wanted to meet with the Prime Minister because president roosevelt had great confidence in his ability to deal with other people and he met with a lot of foreign leaders during world war ii. So in terms of grews thought about with what hull did wrong, i think that grew felt that hull was very inflectionable and unreceptive to suggestions that grew thought might need to an avoidance of war. Did grew feel that the chinese that the japanese would ever withdraw from china . And if not, what would be the basis of a peace treaty . Did he think that japan would ever withdraw from china . Yes. He thought its interesting you bring that up. Thats a good point. So when grew was sailing back from japan in august, 1942 and he had this report that ive described a moment ago, that he wanted to give to president roosevelt and secretary of state cordell hull. While he was on the ship coming back to america, grew wrote a very long letter, that would be a cover letter, to president roosevelt and this was like a dear frank letter. These two guys went to school together. So grew and roosevelt knew each other very well. So grew drafted a dear frank letter on the ship to explain he was attaching a copy of this report, and in that letter grew explained that this japanese Prime Minister that i just mentioned a moment ago had said that the chinese troops would be withdrawn except for a small contingent in manchuria. So thats what grew was told and that the Prime Minister, as i said, had told grew that the Prime Minister had the support of the emperor in doing that. In an interview with 30 years ago when asked if he had bucked the army, tarhito said that he would have been assassinated by the army if he had bucked the army. I cant respond to that because i havent seen that comment. I can tell you that the emperor was revered, but the emperor was somebody he wasnt a passive receptacle. Throughout this time period he was engaged with both the civilian and the military and what they should do. And i will tell you that in the final months, in the fall of 1941 when a lot of people in the military were pushing for a war with the United States, that hirohito, the emperor, he did not want it. And this Prime Minister when i mentioned a moment ago, he resigned in 1941 because he could 0 not get the meeting with the president. And the Prime Minister was tojo hideki. There was a lot of pressure from the army from which he came to go to war with the United States. And hirohito and his advisors told tojo when he became Prime Minister in 1941, and he should have the white the slate clean message and that tojo was to do everything he could within reason to reach a diplomatic resolution with the United States and tojo did, from his perspective, tojo felt he had to abide by that. It didnt work out of course, in part as i say, i think the japanese rightly or wrongly felt they were never going to get anywhere with the United States to reach an agreement. The bottom line, i cant speak to the comment that you made because i never saw that interview, but i can tell you that the generals were willing to stay their hand in response to a request from the emperor that they find a diplomatic resolution. Thank you. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Thank you for coming. Thank you. Question for you. During the period of time the youre speaking about, did joseph grew have any communication or a good repertoire with if any, with william dodd, fdrs ambassador to germany at that time . Well, thats an interesting comment because i actually do discuss that in my book. So, here is the reason why you should go buy the book. [laughter] i do talk about that. Dodd died in, i believe, 1940 at the age of 70, but in 1941, dodds diary was published in the United States and of course, it was later used as a basis for a book by eric larson called in the garden of beasts. When todds book came out, grew was very much aware of who he was because joseph grew was a dean of the United States diplomatic corps and so he was very interested in seeing what dodd had to say about Bernie Madoff in part because part because grew had served in the embassy in germany and what he had to say about germany in part because it was a country bent on war. And there were, i would say a good 10 to 15 pages of grews diary devoted to his analysis of dodds tenure as the ambassador to germany between 1933 and 1937. I dont want to spend a lot of time here detailing that, but the bottom line was that grew had a very low opinion of dodd as an ambassador and thought he did not serve the country well because he did not grew felt that dodd had not accurately or adequately advanced american interests in dealing with hitler. Hitler. I wanted to go back to grews suggestions to roosevelt and cordell hull. Besides the meeting with the Prime Minister were there any suggestions . Yeah, there were a number of other suggestions. One suggestion that grew made was he felt that roosevelt should issue a statement that would be well publicized in the United States, that grew publicized in japan, if roosevelt would explain the benefits that would accrue to japan if they abandoned their military policies and adopted more peaceful courses. Grew was concerned because the japanese, a lot of the Japanese Press was controlled by the government and the japanese leaders, the Japanese Press and the japanese leaders, grew felt, had a mistaken view about sentiment in the United States. As you know, there were a lot of isolationist movements led by lindbergh and others in the United States and whenever isolationists in the United States made statements, they were given great publicity in japan and so grew was concerned that the japanese had a mistaken view of what the United States was willing to do and whether the United States would stand up for itself. And so, he wanted to counter that and he told roosevelt that if you can make a statement to explain the benefits that would accrue to japan, i will make sure through my contacts, that this gets a lot of publicity so everybody, the japanese leaders and the japanese people could understand the benefits they would have if they changed their policies. That was one suggestion that roosevelt never accepted. I was wondering, what was japans overall Strategic Plan for the empire and their place in the world . So, had there been a peace treaty that would have been signed, would they have kept expanding throughout Southeast Asia and would war have been eventual . Well, nobody can answer that question. I would say this, that grew thought that, theres no guarantees in this business. There are so many factors and the situation is so fluid. So he could not answer your last point first, he couldnt guarantee what the future would hold. He did think if the United States could reach an agreement, that japan night get the benefits that it was seeking without war. You have to remember that japan is a nation of islands. They have very few resources and so they have a big population, but no resources or few resources. China and Southeast Asia, indo china were very important to the japanese because they were rich in the resources that japan did not have. Japan had a legitimate right to be in china. They had a railroad and they had other rights that enabled them to stay there and they could have stayed there. They had japan had had business interests in china long before there was a war. So i guess thens spo to your question is, grew certainly believed that there was a chance, a reasonable response that there could be some benefit to japan in peace, but i will tell you to go to your other point, as i mentioned, japanese leaders understood the risk of war with the United States. They understood that they could not survive in a long war with the United States. In fact, admiral yamamoto is the one who devised the strategy to attack pearl harbor and he did it because he said, japan cant last in a long war with the United States and the only way we can survive in a war is to deal the United States a crippling blow at the outset and he thought maybe pearl harbor, an attack at the naval base in pearl harbor would do that. Even yamamoto in december said in 1941, a war with so little should not be. And little benefits that japan needed. Thank you. One short question, why if mr. Grew was a good friend of Franklin Roosevelt did he not send a letter not just to mr. Hull, his boss, but, hey, frank, you ought to understand what i know . Why didnt he speak up . Today people would do that. What was the attitude in 1942 . 41. Well, thats a good question and the short answer is that grew did write several dear frank letters periodically. He knew the president was very busy with so many things, but periodically he did write letters to president roosevelt. As i say dear frank letters. The problem was that roosevelt was primarily concerned with hitler and roosevelt deferred most of the japanese the decisions on japanese policy to hull because he was so focused on that. And to give you an example of what happened. So grew wrote a letter to president roosevelt, one of these dear frank letters, on september 29th, 1941, to tell him about the things that he thought roosevelt should do, including a meeting with the japanese Prime Ministers to see if they could reach an agreement. So what happens. The letter comes to roosevelt. Roosevelt gives the letter to the state department to draft a reply, and they grew finally gets a reply from roosevelt thats drafted by the state department on october 30, 1941. Well, by then the horse had left the barn and by then the Prime Minister who wanted to have this agreement had been forced to resign because he could not arrange this meeting. So, but grew recognized that, but felt that there was only so many letters he could write and i guess the question is, should he have come back from japan . Travel wasnt easy in those days, but anyhow, thats a good question. You have one more question . Yeah, just one more. Dont sell yourself short. Yeah, well, depends on your answer. Okay. Now, you mentioned that bed a grew is this was like the dean of the diplomatic corps. Yes, by that i mean he was a senior diplomate. Now, there was the existence sat of something called an aabd alliance in the southwest pacific, stands for australia, america, britain, and the Dutch East Indies and this was approved this was signed off by fdr, the secretary of war, and stimpson and knox. It was not a treaty, per se, because it had never been approved by the senate. Now, was my question, here is my question, based on the knowledge and the exist temps existence of this treaty february 1941, there was a combined Communications Alliance that was held by these four countries and they exchanged all of the code information that all of those countries knew collectively with the United States. Everybody had some skin in the game. The u. S. Was short on intelligence, but yet, at least we had some ships. Anyway, my question is, was senator grew aware of this alliance and did the state department, ie, the embassy in japan, have any crossover or exchange of information with either the navy or naval intelligence, if you know . Thats a good question. The short answer is that grew was a civilian employee, so grew had very little contact with the military in the United States. But that said, the grew was friends with and collaborated with the diplomates from all of those countries you mentioned in tokyo. I mentioned that one story, for example, about his dinner with sir robert craig, the British Ambassador. Grew and sir robert kregy, and on terms with administrators with the United States allies and they met regularly and anything they felt they could share, they did. So they were all pretty much in the same boat. After grew returned from japan, did he have a role in u. S. Policy towards japan . Or what was he doing at that point . Thats a good question. So i guess because he was a loyal employee or subordinate, he destroyed that report, grew actually continued in the state department. He started off, he was an assistant to secretary of state cordell hull. He then became chief of the far eastern division. Then in november 1944, cordell hull resigned, and he was placed eventually by jimmy byrnes. And in 1944 grew was appointed under secretary of state which is the number two position in the state department. During 1945 up until august 15th, 1945, grew spent a lot of time as the acting secretary of state because the secretary of state was travelling around so much, they were forming the united nations, they were dealing with a lot of other issues that required the secretary of state to travel to different places and when the secretary of state was out of outside of washington, grew became the acting secretary of state, and the great irony is that grew was the acting secretary of state when the bombs were dropped on hiroshima and nagasaki. And then he retired on august 15th, 1945, shortly after the last bomb was dropped. Was that in response to the no, grew, at that point grew was 65 years old. In those days 65 was considered old. Today its middle age, right . [laughter] but so he was 65 years old and so he retired. And he retired he commanded the respect of a lot of people, which goes back to the story i mentioned about Retirement Party for general george c. Marshall, grew was asked to provide remarks at that dinner because of his stature. Thank you. Thank you. Question, grew was a p. O. W. , you spoke. Was his treatment changed at all after doolittle raiders bombing in tokyo and did he have any conversation where connection with some of the prisoners of the doolittle raiders . When i the short answer, i dont know if he had any communication, but they were held more or less incommunicado in the American Embassy, so they were not out and about, and the embassy, its a very nice embassy, one of the nicest embassies the United States had. They had two buildings a chan chancery and a residence. And many looked when pearl harbor occurred all Embassy Staff had to be relocated inside the embassy. There was not enough room for everybody in the embassy so offices were turned into bedrooms so that people could stay there. But grew did not have any i dont think he had any contact with any other prisoners of war, is that your question whether he really didnt. They were pretty much confined to the embassy and they didnt have Radio Communications and they were rarely let out of the embassy. But the treatment of themselves was not changed when the bombing hit . Well, they were i would say they were treated better than most prisoners of war. They were living in the American Embassy, as i mentioned, it was crowded, but it was a very nice embassy, so they had life relatively good compared to the treatment of other prisoners of war and on that score, just by way of comparison, journalists who had american journalists who were in tokyo merely reporting for their newspaper, almost all of the newspaper journalists were arrested as prisoners of war. They were thrown into jail. They were tortured and just to give you one little story about that, now that you bring it up, is that on the ship that was supposed to take grew back to the United States, they were taking back all the embassy and other americans, and all the journalists the japanese let go, released the journalists and they were on that ship as well. And there was a delay because the United States insisted on getting some people from northern japan on the ship. So there was a delay in the ship leaving yokohama had an are bore. But the passengers were not told why there was a delay so a lot of the passengers became very concerned that the ship was not going to leave and that they were going to be taken off the ship and taken back onto land in japan and one of the journalists there said, ill jump in the water and drown myself before ill go back on land in japan. So that should give you some picture of how the japanese treated other prisoners of war. [applaus [applause]. So again, i want to thank you for coming, your patience and i just hope if you do read the book, i hope you enjoy it and i hope you learn something from it. Thank you. There will be a book signing in the lobby. [applaus [applause] youre watching a special edition of book tv airing now did during the week while members of congress are working in their districts because of the coronavirus pandemic. Tonight on after words, first contributing pegry orin stein looks at masculinity and kt mcfarland, and the largest class of women ever elected to congress, please enjoy book tv now and watch over the weekend on cspan2. I just ponder how, in your professional careers, you are traveling the world, living at a different environment completely but youve reported on World Affairs of all kinds of Different Directions in some of the worst tragedies on the planet but you chose to really focus on a small town