Transcripts For CSPAN3 Danny Glover Ta-Nehisi Coates Others Testify On Slavery Reparations 20240714

Will committee on the judiciary subcommittee on constitutional civil rights and Civil Liberties come to order. Thank you for your help getting the door shut and getting people. Care will authorize the recess of the subcommittee any time. Welcome everyone to this hearing on hr 40 and thei will recognize myself or opening statement. Today is the documents the announcement of the abolition of slavery in texas and more generally throughout the confederacy. The news of the emancipation proclamation did not reach texas for 2 years and it was not until 1865 dental they were free. Despite the announcement. Slavery was a crime against humanity one which impacts we continue to grapple with today. This also marks the 400 anniversary of the first african state slaves being brought to america. Slavery was our original sin. Our constitution protected the and various compromises that gave disproportionate power to slave states. The thrift 3 5 clause they were consider personal property and that gave disproportionate representative and the constitution created the Electoral College another avenue to exercise disproportionate influence over national heirs. It is only fitting that we should hold a hearing today on hr 40 the study for proposals for African Americans act. My colleague Sheila Jackson was at another hearing she is here with us, member of the subcommittee is the current lead sponsor of this legislation and im proud to be a cosponsor with her with full committee chair. The greatest credit begin belongs to to individual. First and foremost john conyers. He is a former colleague and chairman of the house Judiciary Committee, Great American and a great leader. One of my mentors. One of the reasons that i have introduced this resolution with him since 2007. He introduced it first 30 years ago and reintroduced it every congress thereafter until his retirement. The second individual most responsible is sad, but in reality john wilkes booth. His assassination of Abraham Lincoln to Andrew Johnson becoming president and president johnson effectively rescinded the promise be former slaves that they would each be guaranteed 40 acres of land to make a living. President lincoln wouldve carried that out and had plans to do it. Because of that dastardly day and need didnt occur. A commission to study the history of slaves in the role of government in supporting and and other forms of discrimination and the lingering consequences of slavery and jim crow on African Americans. The commission would make recommendations of appropriate ways to educate the american people. An honest reckoning with the federal Government Role in protecting the institution of slavery has been a leading priority of micropersonal career. In 2007 my freshman year 94 apology for the congress perpetuating the role of slavery. The health pass this resolution by voice vote and take the chairman for getting it to the american people. As i noted it was not just slavery that was wrong but the visceral racism on which american slavery defendant. Racism went on to become entrenched in the social fabric and evil we must continue to confront today. Can we get that door closed . A few. My resolution was the original sin the line sent did not end with the civil war and congress is in action and acquiescence was a big reason why. Racism became further entrenched after the end as reflected in societal attitudes and jim crow laws and segregation laws that created separate and equal society. One must was enforcement official means and wincing, violence, intention tatian and not until hundred years later did congress under pressure from dark doctor Martin Luther king, john lewis and others finally carry out the duty to end is bypassing the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The voting right rights act of 1965 and other statutes. Today, our nation continues to suffer under this. We see this. According to the Census Bureau 21. 2 of americans live in poverty and 17 compared to 8. 7 of non hispanic whites. The Census Bureau that the network of africanamerican households was only about 13,000 which is less than 10 of the hundred and 40,000 of Nonhispanic White households. Africanamericans continue to face discrimination in a and limited access to education opportunities, High School Education rate Graduation Rate was 67 compared to nationwide average of 81. They segregation and housing and available at healthcare. Hr 40 would be important step in finding longterm solutions. As the distinguished professor of harvard once noted the concept of reparation does not mean payments to individuals for rhetoric focus on the poorest of the including efforts to address comprehensively the problems of those that are not substantially benefited from affirmative action or integration. I hope the hearing today can lead to fruitful conversations with the aim of achieving that goal. Think our witnesses for being here today and look over to their testimony. It is my pleasure to recognize the gentleman from louisiana. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Let me start by saying i maintain the utmost respect for my colleagues on the other side and i know their beliefs are sincerely held. Think you for be here today. We will discuss centers on shameful portion of american history. Slavery and elsewhere was a horrific injusticeslavery was legally abolished in 1865 following the end of the tragic award. Bill today would establish a commission to study and develop reparation proposals for africanamericans. There are serious questions about this and they are honest and sincere questions. Putting aside the injustice of monetary reparations from current taxpayers for the sins of a small subset from many generations ago. Distribution would be nearly impossible once one considers the complexity. Consider this, there are tens of millions of todays non africanamericans who are descended from people who arrived in the country after slavery ended and therefore they cant be held responsible for its legacy. More are descended from people in the north and south who didnt own slaves or who were descendents white who fought in the civil war on the union side. Only a small percentage of the American Population were slave owners. For the reasons and many other such an approach has been widely unpopular in our recent history. In the 70s organizations openly rejected the idea of reparation which the naacp director called it a paltry way out. Barack obama opposed it in 2008. We have an obligation to knowledge that any monetary reparation that might be recommended would almost certainly be unconstitutional. The reason, listen, wait a minute. The reason for that is a legal question. The federal government cant constitutionally provide compensation today to a specific racial group because other members of that group may be several generations ago were discriminated against and treated inhumanely. According to the Supreme Court report that as a preference. They are only permissible to remedy the present effects of the government so widespread and recent discrimination and the federal government is not allowed to provide racebased remedies that are ageless in the past and timeless in their ability to the future. I believe that some believe this discussion would be cathartic for nation. We have to ask if discussions can result in justice today. Is certainly wont provide consensus. Many people of good conscience believe it will distract from the many causes of current racial disparity. Other social and cultural dynamics are themselves negatively and well intended government policies. Let us be clear today, racism violates the most fundamental that we only care the evidence that all men are created equal we are endowed by our creator as our own rights. Every Single Person has dignity and value and it is not related in any way to the color of our skin, what neighborhood or our abilities. It is inherent because it is given to us by our creator. My wife i have a much older son who happens to be African American. Took custody and made him part of our family. Michael tran36 next week and he is a loving dad to four children. And mentioned that today for one reason. I personally know the challenge he has faced early in his life. I have walked with him through discrimination he had to endure and the hurdles he aced. I know all this because i was with him. I asked him this weekend what about the idea of reparation and he explained his opposition and it reminded me of something the harvard professor said finally i would urge the members of the subcommittee and house of representatives to ponder carefully the message that would be conveyed. When you are behind in a foot race the only way to get ahead is to run faster than the managed interview so when your white remake cautiously you stay up. His words have have eloquent advocates. Also that africanamericans were not powerless until they got a financial settlement, the point is important. Those leaders encourage people to take control of and responsibility of their own life because that gives a greater meaning, purpose and everyone in this room probably agrees with that principle. The premise risk communicating the opposite message. Propagate a worldview that says external courses from a century a are directing the fate of black americans today. There is no doubt prejudice exists. Many communities from many different places and it is not reserved to one race or class or ethnicity. All of it is despicable. The question today is what we do about it. We approach this in good faith and i look forward to hearing from our witnesses. But i think you and want to apologize we are not supposed to in the audience respond or speak out for plot workshare and am probably wrong for encouraged what i think was proper preference and dont allow my action to be compounded. Okay thank you for calling this. We mark the 400th anniversary of the first enslaved arriving. The hearing gives us the opportunitythree introduced hr 40 which would establish a commission to study proposal for africanamericans. I am pleased to be a cosponsor. It is intended to begin a National Conversation about how to confront the brutal mistreatment of African Americans during slavery, jim crow segregation and the enduring Structural Racism that remains today. Even long after it was abolished in segregation was a defining part of the policy. Today we live with Racial Disparities that are directly attributable to the damaging legacy of slavery and governmentsponsored Racial Discrimination in the century following slavery is important to recognize that hr 40 makes no conclusion about how to atone for and make direct event for the slavery and jim crow. Instead it sets forth after study the issues and make recommendations. Most serious models that have been proposed to focus on for communitybased programs of housing and education initiatives righting wrongs that cannot be fixed with checks alone. This reckoning comes at a time when our nation must find ways. This Committee Held a committee on a crimes in the midst of white nationalism. Crimes, ramsey, legacy, legacy of jim crow all back our long standing efforts to carry out what the preamble of our constitution says it is designed to do to form a more perfect union. Reparations in the context are ultimately about respect and reconciliation in the hope that one day all americans can Work Together for a more just future. I hope the commission established by hr 40 will help us better comprehend our own history and bring us closer to racial understanding and advancement. This hearing gives the subcommittee and important opportunity to hear from witnesses directly involved in shaping the discourse on healing our society and creating a path to restorative justice. The discussion is a journey in which the road travels maybe almost as important as the disk destination. The subcommittee is beginning this process today. I would like to ask that karen be allowed to sit. Thank you and a few german knoedler for identity of it as a legitimate legislative action should have a mock up and go to the floor and go to senate and be signed by the president. This is a action of legislative commitment and this is all symbolic go i am gratified that we are having this hearing on june 8. For those of us that understand it, two years after the proclamation emancipation proclamation there were those who did not have freedom until 1865. Let me begin and indicated to my friends who expressed a variety of assessments of hr 40 and say that americans is a place that welcomes diversity of thought let me be very clear. It is only this group even though they attempted to enslave native americans it is only this group that can singularly claim to have been slaves under the government and hr 40 is in fact the responsibility United States of america longoverdue. Slavery has never received an apology. This is comprised of those selected by the speaker, the president , believes and those who have been in this process. I spoke to john yesterday and im honored to give the opportunity leave this. He said to move on and lead on and for us to take this forward. Thank you for all you have done. Let me share with you a sense of what face. That we say over 2 million died in houses over 2. 5 million died in slavery. Between 10 and 15 million africans were forcibly transported across the between 1500 and 1900. At least 2 million died in the passage another every hundred slaves another 40 died in africa or during the passage. Who has a history like that . Reparation and the idea of this commission should be welcomed by all americans. We are not asking one american to give one payment, we say is the only way that slavery ended was a governmental action of the 13th amendment and reconstruction failed after 12 years in prison and tearing the land and the concept of a continuing the Practical Impact of slavery today. 1 million africanamerican are incarcerated that is a continuing impact. Black employment rate is 6. 6 despite of what is said currently more than double the National Unemployment rate. 31 of black children live in poverty compared to 11 . Even inside of a glorious overcoming of the talent that is part of our community the scrapping together and putting together we still have been impacted. Only 57 of black students have access to math and science today. Laxatives for 2. 3 times as likely to receive a referral to Law Enforcement. Black people in america are the descendents of africans kidnapped and transported to the United States with the explicit complicity of government and every arm of the United States lawmaking and Law Enforcement infrastructure. Humanizing were not isolated occurrences mandated by federal law that were enshrined in the constitution. It is an injustice that must be addressed. Im not here and were in was. I am not seeking to encourage hostility. There are diverse opinions in this room and i understand it, appreciate it and love it. Im a product of my history. I am clearly a child that has walked this path. No, i did not pick cotton but i will say that those who picked cotton created the basic wealth of this nation where cotton was king. There was no other product. And i ask my fellow colleagues that this is simply a constructive discussion that will lead to the practical responses and if i might put this article in the record from the New York Times dated june 17 downtown kansas city, missouri and a few blocks away devastation in the black community. Two cities mostlyasked to put a statement of support from john legend. Two cities so let me conclude by saying i hope we come in peace and i know we will hear from senator booker and i think a number of others who have done this including the heads of state, scholars and playing a leading role in the global reparation movement. Im delighted to seetravel all the way from jamaica to be here. I am particularly glad that we are coming together as brothers and sisters and i will certainly acknowledge his steadfast leadership him playing an instrumental role. We are delighted that several are present and thank them for working closely with thei am delighted to reintroduce it a modification and thank you for your leadership and look forward to working with you in the commission as we educate the nation and id like to think al sharpton because he oust candidates what their position was and we now have raised this to a national level. I simply ask, why not and why not now . God bless us as we pursue the final justice for those who lived in slavery for 250 years of the United States of america. Please support this to its passage. Thank you for your generosity and kindness. I would also like to ask which was an apology for slavery the 110th congress and resolution apologizing for the racial segregation of African Americans and introduced for the record without objection to be done. You did acknowledge her i want to indicate she is the chairwoman of the Congressional Black Caucus and we are delighted she is here. It was intended to start this dialogue and have a National Dialogue and a urgently the senate did pass an apology mister brownback included a sentence that said it would have no effect on reparation despite insistence that it should pass together and we have a dialogue be passed different resolutions and the senate did pass an apology as well and i think it was the 111th congress. That was because of tom harkin. I would like to introduce to the record the testimony from a professor of Public Policy on africanamerican studies at Duke University without objection. Now i would like to come to the first panel senator cory booker and written statement will be entered into the record and i ask you to summarize your statement to five minutes. He represents new jersey. October 16, 2013 he won a special election and on november , 2014 he was reelected to a full sixyear term. He sits on the Foreign Relations Small Business entrepreneurship and the environment to the public works committee. He is the sponsor of s 1083 the companion to hr 40. He graduated from stanford and he was a Rhodes Scholar at Oxford University earning an honors degree in history. Welcome and you are recognized for 5 minutes. Thank you very much. I am glad that my written testimony will be put in the record. I wanted to say i am sitting before you on many days i come down to washington broken heart and angry. I live in a black and brown innercity community below the poverty line. I have lived and worked in communities like this all my adult life and yesterday hundreds of yards from where i live there were seven black man shot and this is an everyday occurrence in america. I have the privilege of happy leaders in my community over the decades have given me strength one of them was a woman who lived on the fifth floor are tenant president in a building in which i live whose son was murdered in our community and she taught me that hope is the active conviction and despair wont have the last word. On a day like this when i come back to washington d. C. Seven people shot in my community i wonder if other senators had people shot like that that wouldnt be a delete national story. I see the lives of low income people the world seems to keep going on. I wonder if the last word if it is no word if it is silence. I feel a sense of anger where we are in the United States of america where we have not had a lot to talk about the root causes of the inequities and the pain and the hurt manifested in economic disparities and Health Disparities and manifested in a criminal Justice System that is indeed a form of new jim crow and we as a nation have not grappled with racism and it continues to persist in those deep inequalities today. This is a very important hearing. Is historic and urgent. I look at communities like mine and you can literally see how communities were designed to be segregated based upon enforcing institutional racism and inequities. We know that racialized violence and terrorism has persisted from reconstruction well into the 1950s as my friend ryan stephen memorial for peace and justice shows. We have seen bombings of churches and places as recently as the Emmanuel Church just four years ago. The stain of slavery was not just eatin bloodshed but the statesponsored policy that fueled White Supremacy and have disadvantaged africanamericans economically for generations. Many of the bedrock policy usher generations of americans into the middle class were designed to exclude African Americans from the g. I. Bill the Social Security intentionally designed to exclude blacks as well as school secularization redlining, neighborhoods like the one in which i live which were by design rolled off and disinvested. While these policies of the past , they are damaged and the reality has endured across generations and created and led to so much of the racial wealth gap in our country. Right now we see cities like boston where the average white family has somewhere around 240,000 in well and the average black family has eight dollars in well. Health outcomes varies by race. National black women are not four times as likely to die from pregnancy complications as white women and so many other areas including criminal Justice System. Africanamericans are about four times more likely to be arrested. These injustices do not just cause injustice or africanamericans it enforces a deep injustice in our nation as a whole. It is a cancer on the soul and making us all less wealthy and making us all fall far short of being who we say we are when we swear an oath this will be a nation of liberty and justice for all. I believe this is an urgent moment which i am leading on the senate side which is a beginning of an important process not just to examine and setting this history that had not been addressed the silence that process and also to find practical ideas to address enduring injustices in our nation. The characterization of such an effort that i hear from others is wrong and undermines our collective purpose and common ground. This idea that it is just about writing a check importance of this conversation we will talk about. I am brokenhearted and angry right now. Living in a community where you see how deeply unfair so many people who struggle to work hard who do everything right and proportionally with lead in their water and schools that dont serve and disparity still affect their body and well being. We as a nation must address this persistent inequality or we will never fully achieved strength and the possibility. Hope is the active conviction that the spirit will not have the last word. I believe right now today we have a historic opportunity to break the silence and talk constructively about how we will move this nation forward. It is time we find a way to deal with the ugly past and make sure they dont have to continue to mark disparity and can truly talk about a nation where our ancestors spoke from the good book. Thank you. Thank you so much, senator booker. Appreciate your testimony. I also want to reiterate that congressman was here and a great champion. Now i would like to call upon our second panel and senator booker for is sponsorship and statement. Second panel i guess we need chairs. The chair crowd is here. Good. Were these cameras here for you . Enough with the pictures. We welcome our witnesses and think them. Your written statement will be entered into the record and the entirety and summarize to five minutes. Green means you are on, blue, yellow means you have a minute left and read you are over. Before proceeding i remind each witness your written and oral statements are subject to penalties of perjury which may result in the imposition of a fine or imprisonment of up to five years. Our first witnessim sorry if i mispronounced that. Author and distinguished writer in residence at New York University carter journalism and held a variety of academic positions since 2010. From 20 2008 to 28 International Correspondent and wrote an extensive piece in june 2014 on the case for reparation. Also addressed Rhodes College on that sometimes in memphis. The author of books, blog posts and articles. Think you for been here. Yesterday when asked about reparation Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell offered a familiar reply. America should not be held liable for something that happened 150 years ago since that of us currently alive are responsible. This rebuttal proffers a strange theory of governance that american accounts are bound by the lifetime of is generations. Well into this century the United States was still pain our pensions to the heirs of civil war soldiers. Beyond treaties that date back some 200 years despite no one being alive to sign those treaties. Many of us would love to be tax for the things we are solely and individually responsible for, but we are american citizens and bound to a collective enterprise that extends beyond our individual and personal reach. It would seem ridiculous to dispute and vacations of the founders of the greatest generation on the basis of a lack of membership in group. We recognize our lineage is a Generational Trust as inheritance and the real dilemma posed by reparations is that, a dilemma of inheritance. It is impossible to imagine america without the inheritance of slavery. As historian has written enslavement shaped every aspect of the economy and politics of america so that by 1836 more than 600 million almost half of the Economic Activity in the United States derived directly or indirectly from the cotton produced by the million odd slaves. By the time they were emancipated they comprise the largest single asset in america. 3 billion at 18 60 more than other the assets in the country combined. The method of cultivating this asset was neither gentle cajoling karma no persuasion, but torture, and child trafficking. Enslavement rain for 250 years on the shores. When it ended this country could have extended the hollow principles, life, liberty and pursuit of happiness all regardless of color and america had other principles in mind and for a century after black people were subjected to a Relentless Campaign of terror. A campaign that extended well into the lifetime of majority leader connell. It is tempting to divorce this modern campaign of terror of plunder from enslavement and the logic of enslavement, the White Supremacy respects no such borders and the bondage was lustful and beget any errors. Vagrancy laws and redlining and racist g. I. Bill. State sponsored terrorism. We grant that Mister Mcconnell was not alive and he was alive for the electrocution of george it was alive for the blinding of Isaac Woodward and he was alive to witnessin a regime premised on electoral statistics. Majority leader cited civil rights legislation as well he should because he was alive to witness the harassment, jailing and betrayal of those responsible for about legislation. Our government sworn to protect them. He was alive for the redlining of chicago and the looting of black homeowners of some for billion dollars. The victims of that are alive today. I am sure they would love a word with the majority leader. They know, with this committee must know is that while emancipation deadbolt to the door against the bandits of america jim crow wedged the windows wide open and that is the thing about his something, you was 150 years ago and it was right now. The typical black family has 1 10 the wealth of the typical white family. Lack women die in childbirth four times the rate of white women and there is the shame of this land of the free posting the largest prison population of which the descendents of the enslaved make up the largest share. The matter of reparations is one of making amends and direct address and a question of citizenship. Hr 40 this body has a chance to make good on its 2009 apology for enslavement and reject fairweather patriotism to say that a nation is its credit and debit that if Thomas Jefferson matters soda sally hemmings. That if dday matters so does black wall street that if valley forge matters so does fort hello because the question really is not whether we will be tied to the some things of our past, but whether we are courageous enough to be tied to the whole of them. Thank you, mister coach. Next witnesses mister danny glover, actor, producer activist and goodwill ambassador for unicef chairman of the board of trends are for for himand a friend of harry belafonte. You are recognized for 5 tenants. Thank you. Is not often you hear the words of a young man and they enliven your emotional memory and historic memory emotional memory. Thank you so much. I am deeply honored to be here today offering my testimony at this historic meeting about a reckoning of a crime. Against humanity. That is foundational to the development and democracy. A National Reparations policy is moral, democratic and an economic imperative. I sit here as the great grandson of a former slave. Mary brown. I have the fortune of meeting her as a small child. I also sit here is the grandson of rufus mack hundley. My maternal grandparents were both born before the Supreme Court decision in 1896. For a significant portion of their lives they worked with share crafters. Until they were able to save enough money to purchase a small farm. Despite much progress over the centuries, this hearing is yet another important step in the long and heroic struggle of africanamericans. For the damages inflicted by slave men and of course emancipation and racial exclusionary policy. Many of the organizations who are present today at this hearing are amongst the historical contributors to the present national discourse. Congressional deliberations and Democratic Campaign policy. Discussions about reparations. We also, john conyers was shepherding this legislation. The adoption of hr 40 can be a signature legislative achievement. Especially within the context of the United Nations International Decade of people of african descent. We should also note the comment market nations in the caribbean community, the Reparations Commission shared by sir hillary who is here with us today. As exercise and the leadership role from which we as a nation can benefit. Are sustained direct effective policy in collaboration with africanamericans and progressive citizens and allies is the ultimate proof of the sincerity of our National Commitment to repair the damage of the legally and often religiously sanctioned in the humanity of slavery segregation and current Structural Racism that limit democratic participation. And material advancement of africanamericans and of our countrys progress. I call on all of the elected Public Officials and congress to demonstrate your commitment in action today. And stanforth with congresswoman Sheila Jackson lee, and cosine hr 40. In closing, with insightful, i close with still relevant words of dr. Martin luther king jr. , 1968. I quote, why is the issue of the quality still so far from solution in america . A nation in which professes itself to be democratic, inventive, hospitable, to new ideas, rich and productive and ultimately powerful. Justice for black people will not flow into society merely from court decisions. Nor from fountains of political or rectory. Now know what a few token changes quote all the time she was yearnings of millions of disadvantaged black people. Why america must recognize justice for black people cannot be achieved without radical changes in structure of our society. The comfortable, the entrenched in the privileged cannot continue to tremble as the prospect of change in the status quo. Thank you. Thank you. Miss Katrina Browne is our next speaker. She produced and directed the documentary film traces of the trade. A story from the deep north. She made a discovery that her rhode island ancestors were the largest slave trading family in United States history. She serves as a consultant for the episcopal church. Offering a 10 session race dialogue series for congregational use. I must say we were doing our apology. They were leaders on the effort. She has a theology for the school of religion. You are recognized for five minutes. Thank you chairman, and an representative jacksonlee for the opportunity to speak this morning. I grew up in philadelphia. Six blocks from Independence Hall and the liberty bell. Im a deepseated patriot. It was devastating to learn from my grandmother at age 28 that our ancestors have been slave traders. And to discover that the dewolfes were in fact the largest slave trading family in United States history. Bringing over 12,000 africans to the americas in chains. These were my rhode island ancestors. And that rhode island turns out to be the state that sent more ships to africa than any other. It required me to reorganize my brain. The amnesia in my family matched the larger amnesia of the north. The selfserving myths of always being on the right side of history. I could no longer carry a sense of moral superiority relative to white southerners. Nor a sense of innocence via the black claims on the white conscience. I decided to initiate a family journey to retrace the triangle trade. Nine relatives join me to which are here today. In the documentary traces of the trade are the result. The subtitle being a story from the deep north. What we learned and how we stumbled and how we grew during the journey led me to become a passionate believer in the importance of reckoning with the history and later he legacy of slavery. A believer in personal and family reckonings and institutional ones and Larger National reckoning. With that in the need for repair or repaired of action, which can and should take many forms, i express wholehearted support for hr 40. I have met countless p people of all backgrounds who believe in this form of National Effort as well i know there are many who spend the object is that we need this reckoning was slavery was legal for over 200 years. Businesses were tied to slave trade and slavery. Northern mills process cotton harsh harvested by enslaved people. The midwest and the west were implicated. They grew food to feed the south where land was devoted to cash crops like cotton. Harvested by the enslaved. Consumers throughout the country were implicated. In their everyday purchases of clothing, coffee sugar and rice and tobacco. People who immigrated from europe after slavery were implicated. I irish french and german ancestors that came to United States in the 19th century. They worked in factories and struggled. They were giving access to the American Dream. Why were waves of immigrants flocking here . Because it was the land of opportunity. Why was the economy booming . Why were their jobs . Because it had been built largely on unpaid labor. Once here european immigrants got to systematically leapfrog over black families with devastating consequences up to the present day. Slavery built the nation it is turning us into an economic powerhouse. Mostly due to good folk who participated in mundane ways and looked the other way. Now for the second big reason for pushback against the still, the emotion that it stirs up. I speak directly to my fellow White Americans on this. First, it is counterintuitive. I seen over and over again the liberating power facing this painful task. Sucking, white people tend to imagine that black people are angry at us. In my experience black americans dont blame us for the deeds of our ancestors. But are rightfully angry that we dont just drop the defensiveness or the self absorbed guilt and sign up to work with them shoulder to shoulder to tackle the legacies that are still with us. Third, when we let go of defensiveness or guilt we can get to a healthy and shared grief. Which opens the door to sober and sacred and respectful creative and collect full conversation about how to make things right. There are scores of organizations that are already able to attest to the power of this work. They know and i know that the process that a commission would help country embark upon could be a transformative and positive, and lifegiving thing for the country as a whole. A beautiful thing. It is good for the soul of a person of people and of the nation to set things right. Thank you. Thank you miss brown. The capital was built with slave labor. Jesse jackson junior, the new Visitor Center is named emancipation hall and recognition. Coleman hughes is a columnist and has worked as a freelance opinion writer since january 2018. He has had pieces published in the wall street times. He is studying philosophy at columbia university. We appreciate your attendance and you are recognized for five minutes or. Thank you chairman cohen. And members of the committee. It is an honor to testify on the topic as important as this one. About to say is meant to minimize the horror and the brutality of slavery and jim crow. Racism is a bloody stain on this countrys history. I consider our failure to pay reparations directly to free slaves after the civil war to be one of the greatest injustices ever perpetrated by the u. S. Government. I worry that our desire to fix the past compromises our ability to fix the present. Think about what we are doing today. We are spending our time debating a bill that mentions slavery 25 times but incarceration only once. In an era with no black slaves but nearly 1 million black prisoners. A bill that doesnt mention homicide once. At a time when the cdc reports homicide is the number one cause of death for young black men im not saying that acknowledging history doesnt matter. It does. Im saying theres a difference between acknowledging history and allowing history to distract us from the problems we face today. In 2008 the house of representatives formally apologize for slavery and jim crow. In 2009 the senate did the same. Black people dont need another apology. We need safer neighborhoods and better schools. We need a less punitive criminal Justice System. We need affordable healthcare. And none of these things can be achieved through reparations for slavery. Nearly everyone close to me told me not to testify today. They told me that even though i have only ever voted for democrats i would be perceived as a republican and hated by half the country. Others told me by distancing myself from republicans i would end up angering the other half of the country. And the sad truth is that they were both right. That is how suspicious we have become of one another. Thats how divided we are as a nation. If we were to pay reparations today, we would only divide the country further. Making it harder to build the political coalitions required to solve the problems facing black people today. We would insult many black americans by putting a price on the suffering of their ancestors. We would turn the relationship between black americans and White Americans from a coalition into a transaction. From a union between citizens and into a lawsuit between plaintiffs and defendants. What we should do is pay reparations to black americans who actually grew up under jim crow and were directly harmed by secondclass citizenship. People like my grandparents. Paying reparations to all defendants of slaves is a mistake. Take me for example. I was born three decades after the end of jim crow into a privileged household in the suburbs. I attended an ivy league school. Yet im also descended from slaves who worked on Thomas Jeffersons monticello plantation. Reparations for slavery would allocate federal resources, to me, but not to an american with the wrong ancestry. Even if that person is living paycheck to paycheck, and working multiple jobs to support a family. You might call that justice. I call it justice for the dead at the price of justice for the living. I understand that reparations are about what people are owed. Regardless of how well they are doing. I understand that. The people who are owed for slavery are no longer here. We are not entitled to collect on their debts. Reparations, by definition, are only given to victims. The moment you give me reparations you have made me into a victim without my consent. Not just that, you have made one third of black americans who pull against reparations into victims without their consent. And black americans have fought too long for the right to define themselves to be spoken for in such a condescending manner. The question is not what america owes me by virtue of my ancestry . The question is what all americans owe each other by virtue of being citizens of this nation. The obligation of citizenship is not transactional. It is not contingent on ancestry. It never expires and it can be paid off. For all these reasons bill hr 40 is a moral and political mistake. Thank you. Thank you mr. Hughes. Chill. He was presumptive but he still has a right to speak. Mr. Burgess owens is recognized. Everybody here should be treated with respect. Please do so. Mr. Burgess owens is an author and retired professional Football Player for the new york giants and the oakland raiders. Hes the author of a number of books including the 2016 book liberalism and how to turn good men into whiners. Which offers a history analysis of the he attended the university of miami. Home of the ivies. Mr. Owens you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you for this opportunity. I am going to take a different task. We are at this point, this is not about black and white or rich or poor or bluecollar or whitecollar. We are fighting for the heart of our nation. We have a very special country. It is allowed every single generation to become better than the last. That has not ended or stopped until now. We tell our kids a little bit something different. They dont have the opportunities that we had. We talk about ideologies, and some people. People change. I used to be a democrat. Until i found out the misery that party brought to my race. I talk about these ideologies. They dont change, people do. We are fighting for the heart and soul of our nation. Against socialism and the evil it has brought to us. Car mark said it best, an atheist and antisemi. He said the first battleground is the writing of our history. You still are history you still our pride and our past and our future every single city is not experiencing that loss. Real quick history. I am blessed to be a great grandfather. Came here in a slave ship. He came to the burgess plantation. An evil man that drove my great grandmother to leave her kids and committing suicide. She disappeared. At the age of eight was blessed to be surrounded by men who believed in freedom. Even those shackle the great escaped. Made his way south to texas he and that being a successful man. Started the first black church. First black elementary school. Filled his community. Christian and republican. Proud american. An example of what happens with any race or culture is given hope and opportunity and freedom. It did not end there by the way. The history of our block country , black america has been stolen from us for decades. Almost over a century. Look to washington in 1882. By 1905 it was producing more self made black millionaires than harvard yale and princeton combined. The 40s, 50s and 60s was a black community that led our country in terms of men committed to marriage. It was 70 and now its 30 . We were committed to business owners. We now have more High Precision men incarcerated in college. My degree was biology. I learned a long time ago that slavery is not a gene in the dna hallux. It is our actions and her attitude and our belief. I do not believe in reparation. It points to a certain race and a certain color. It points to evil and points the other race, my race, as one that is not only become racist, but also beggars. I do believe in restitution. Lets point to the party that was part of slavery. Jim crow. 40 of our black babies. The state of california, 75 of our black boys can now pass reading and writing tests. A democratic state. Have a Democratic Party pay for all the misery brought to my race, and those after we learn our history decide to stay there, they should pay off until they are complicit. Every White American that feels guilty because of your white skin you need to pony up also. That we we can get past this reparation and recognize this country has given us greatness. Look at this panel. It doesnt matter are color or how we think. We have become successful in this country know other because of this great opportunity. To live the American Dream. Lets not still that from our kids by telling them they can do it. Thank you. Our next witness taylor sutton. He previously served as a pastor of the Washington National cathedral. Bishop sutton has been a leader of retreat and conferences on nonviolence reconciliation and the environment. He taught at the theological seminary. Hes a graduate of hope college and earned his master at Great Western theological seminary. Reverend sutton you are recognized. Thank you mr. Chairman. I am here today as a bishop of the episcopal church. Representing for many a perspective of the faith community. In favor of the proposed legislation or reparations. I will say at the outset the debate we are having here this morning, and the witness of my colleagues here points to the need to establish a commission. This debate needs to happen. We need to entertain proposals for how we redress the evils of our past. If we dont address those problems in an open and fair way, then we are continuing to be lost as a nation. By the way in terms of politics some of my friends are for democrats. Some of my friends are for republicans. As a religious leader i am for my friends. I want to say that last month the Episcopal Diocese of maryland that i lead, 110 congregations across most of the state of maryland voted unanimously for the affirmation of reparations of our diocese. Knowing that so many of the resources of our diocese was gained from uncompensated labor of enslaved person. 100 . On a single negative vote from a diocese that is over with 90 white. Encompassing people from western maryland have their own history of the injustices, coal miners and others. How and why did that happen . If it could happen in that diocese im convinced he can happen in america. It happened because when the subject with issue of reparations are fairly and fully explained americans want to do the right thing. That issue of reparations is admired. It is often mischaracterized. And largely misunderstood. It wells up an emotional response. When you break it down on what it is actually to do we find that many of those emotions dissipate. Why is there the need for it . Let me tell you the story of a friend of mine. She and her husband, she was the pastor of a congregation. A long time ago she told this story of when their child was young. There was a young girl, a young teenager in the congregation. Who knew they had a need for babysitting. She said i will sit for your son tonight. Then she volunteered again. Then my friend and her husband started calling on her more and more. Would you do this . It never was the issue of money brought up. They knew she volunteered at first. She, the teenager, wanted to do this for this more powerful person in the church. That went on for years. After a while my friend and her husband thought this was unfair. This was actually an injustice toward her. They wrote her a letter, now in college, and they said we believe we have come to know that this was an injustice. We are sorry. You want to make amends. The young woman wrote back thank you. And then they worked out a way that she could be compensated for her years of work. Their relationship was reconciled. They could look each other in the eye in a way they could not before because that wall of injustice of that past got in the way of their current relationship. That is what reparations is. That is what our nation has failed to do for the last 120 years. Reparations quite simply means to repair that which has been broken. It is not just about monetary compensation. An act of reparation is an attempt to make whole again and to restore and to make amends and to reconcile for a wrong or injury. It is not the transfer from money from white people to black people. It is what this generation, our generation, will do to repair the broken pieces of the racial mess that we have all inherited. As an africanamerican who is a descendent of slaves who were never compensated i can honestly say to all white people we have forgiven you. We forget this country a long time ago. We continue to forgive every day, but we are not reconciled. To reconcile means to put back together again that which has been broken. After the hardfought abolition of slavery there was a faithful denial of reparations for freed africanamerican people. Even though in many instances white planet plantation owners received losses they incurred from the civil war and the end of slavery. This nation, we know about reparations. It is just that it has never been done for those who deserve it the most. Finally, i am a christian. That means i hold to the holy scriptures of the old and new testament as my guidepost. Into the teachings of jesus. The bible mandates leaders are to be held accountable with a fair and equal treatment of every inhabitant in the land. All of us have been taught to love everyone. Regardless of their race and human condition. We must come to acknowledge there can be no love without justice. There can be no Justice Without some form of repairing an injustice. I hear from many of my white friends, White Brothers and sisters, this question. What do black people want . Havent we done enough . What do they want . I want to turn the question around. What do you want . What kind of america do you want to live in . If youre happy with the state of Race Relations now, dont do anything on this issue. If you want to reconcile a nation, lets get this commissioned. Lets entertain those proposals. Thank you. I want to recognize a member of congress who is here. Frederica wilson from florida. We appreciate your attendance. Our next witness is dr. Julian malvo. She wrote a weekly column for more than a decade that appeared in newspapers across the country. She hosted television and radio programs. She also served as a 15th president of a college for women. A black womens college. She received her bachelors and master degrees from boston college. Thank you for coming and you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you for this opportunity. I want to thank my sister friend Sheila Jackson and my twin sister over there. People frequently comment on our resemblance. Dr. Ron daniels who was here has been mentioned for his leadership. I am delighted to be here because this hearing is not on time its over time. Its more than time for us to deal with the injustices that africanamerican people not only have experienced in history but continue to experience. I am an economist. Is the study of who gets what, when where and why some people call it entrepreneurial ability. Labor gets wages and capital gets interest. The work of predatory capitalists figure out how to extract more from the factors of production toward capital and away from people. We have seen in the past three decades with our own economy. More importantly enslavement was about the devils work of predatory capitalism. Indeed enslaved people got no wages. We represented capital for other people. After enslavement, enslavement was the foundation on which our country was built. Anybody who says i did not have any slaves, you did not to have any. You had to experience them and enjoy the fact they were here and there labor made it possible. Beyond that, i want to speak specifically to section 3b3 of the legislation. Thats the part that talks about the federal and state laws that discriminate against enslaved africans and the descendents who were deemed United States citizens. A book called computation and core version lacks in the american economy, 18651914. He shows in 1880 the racial of black to white was one black dollar for 36 white dollars. 1890 126. 190123. Today 120. In other words we are almost worse off in 2019 that we were in 1910 because of evil. Because basically there have been deliberate attempts to marginalize africanamerican people. Especially those who were formally enslaved because the interest of predatory capitalism. And because they want to maintain the status quo having free black labor and prevent wealth accumulation. Black people were treated perniciously as viciously excluded from the possibilities of economic advancement. The Emergency Land Fund document the reduction of black own Land Ownership between 1910 69 from 69 acres to 6 million acres. Faulty deeds and downright force. My family in mississippi experienced a appropriation of land we still have land and we didnt have the land. Years later after a couple of cousins were lynched they changed the name of the land. They named it after us. We did not get it back. Joseph brooks estimated that black folks were losing 6000 acres of land per week. We saw what happened with the department. The reparations can be made by examining racial hostile Public Policy and government complicity to White Supremacy. You all have an article that i wrote for the aclu. It talks about several cases, memphis and wilmington North Carolina and tulsa oklahoma. This was the tip of the iceberg. This happened everywhere. The journal said that lynching was a first example might because it was a tool dampened the ability of africanamerican people to participate in the vibrant entrepreneurship of the late 19th and early 20th century with the chilling message that our economic success could be punished by the rope economic damage to black people post reconstruction can be summarized as three ways. Number one we were denied the ability to participate in our nations economic growth. The homestead act of 1862 did not include for enslaved people. More than 10 of the continental u. S. Land was distributed to recent immigrants. Not black folks. The 40 acres and a mule was given to someone else. Not us. These folks were not only able to get land they get grants from the federal government to develop their land. Meanwhile africanamerican people were denied. We were denied the right to accumulate the attached of the paper i mentioned talks about how our accumulation was essentially by lynching. The first lynching that ought to be examined is when a black man had the nerve to open up a Grocery Store near a white man store. Listen to those words, economic and the. This is how black people have been suppressed in their ability to accumulate. Wilmington North Carolina, long stories i dont have time to talk about. I want you to look at the paper i submitted and to think about the many ways that black people who try to participate and try to encourage and try to be american and economic actors were suppressed because they have the nerve to think it worked. If my brothers over here who say their American Dream it is some peoples american nightmare. Lets just be clear. Number three, Public Policy hostility. G. I. Bill and legislation and opportunities for African Americans and veterans. Federal Housing Administration and reinforced redlining a segregation as a special policy of the federal government. People talk about racist if they are individuals. The fact they are not individuals and they are individuals who are let me simply say hr 40 is important. More importantly as you my brothers and sisters on this congress go forward. May there be a Racial Justice of any new legislation that has economic implications. Thank you. Our final witnesses professor erik miller. And number of law teaching position since 2003. Hes written a number of academic pieces on reparations among other topics. Professor miller received his bachelor of law with first class honors. His master of law degree is from harvard law school. He has had a number of fellowships. Welcome back. You are recognized for five minutes. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee i am honored by the committees invitation to testify at this very important hearing. I will speak to my experience as academic studying recreation and is a lawyer representing the victims of the tulsa massacre of 1921. In a reparations lawsuit against the state of oklahoma and the city of tulsa in the short Time Available i want to make the following point. Local, state and federal governments were active perpetrators of discrimination against and domination of africanamericans during slavery and jim crow and beyond. These institutions engaged in the massive social and political and economic and cultural destruction of African American communities. Many of the perpetrators and victims of these targeted state actions are readily identifiable through a thorough investigation of existing Historical Records currently in the hands of public and private institutions. The rate based disparities brought about by federal and state and local government discrimination remain. Baked into our institutions as well as the persistently segregated private social harboring whose institutions brought about. Reparations addresses the ways in which these institutions face discrimination and domination to write American Social, cultural and economic and political institutions. The committee should consider specific legal remedies to remove the time lidded bars limited bars. Of extraordinary race targeted state actions. To sue state and federal governments for federal damages. There have been multiple operation style lawsuits brought to the Supreme Court decided that it survived the constitutional challenge. Reparations must include rebuilding the social political and economic and Cultural Infrastructure of the communities destroyed by the state without social cultural and political reparations the programs of economic will preside in the disadvantage and domination and of African Americans across this nation. The urgent need became clear to me in 2003. Thats when i joined the Reparations Committee a group of lawyers led by charles ogletree. Our legal team filed suit representing more than 125 still living survivors of the tulsa oklahoma race massacre of 1921. That is a Historical Context is in order here. On may 30, 1921, some African Americans destroyed a lynching and tulsa oklahoma. One lynching had an effect on a whole community. Because in response, it earned them the 35 city blocks of greenwood. Up to 300 africanamericans died in the massacre in ensuing fire. Overnight 5000 African Americans became homeless. 3000 terrorized people fled the city. The rest were rounded up and held under guard for days at the local baseball park and fairground. The red cross had immobilized to provide tents for those who remained. The city of tulsa in the state of oklahoma moved quickly to suppress the massacre. Survivors were terrorized into silence. The details of the massacre only became public in 2003 after the state of oklahoma formed in hr party style commission. To report on the massacre. The team stating research discovered must unavailable material material. The commission apportion details the national damages. When the states refuse to make good on these recommendations we filed a lawsuit trying to begin to complete the process begun by the commission. The only impediment to our success was a rule requiring the survivors to file a lawsuit within two years of the injury. These limitations are the major impediment in the lawsuit. The harms of slavery and segregation scarred our communities to this day. The city and state dismantled economically and politically and culturally a specific community. Africanamericans in tulsa. Subsequent generations have labored under the social and political disempowerment after trying to rebuild their community. The tulsa experience is emblematic of many African American communities around the country. Economic justice is not enough without Racial Justice. To court a harvard law professor , reparations are more than an exercise in education remembrance and apology. Accordingly i urge congress to pass hr as the first vital step on the path to acknowledging an accounting for the history of targeted discrimination and wrongdoing that is marked too much of this nations history. Thank you professor miller. We will proceed under the five minute rule of questions. I will begin now by recognizing myself for five minutes. The case for reparations you state 250 years of slavery and 90 years of jim crow and six years of separate and equal. 35 years of racist policies. Until we reckon with our compounding moral. Why should the federal government bear responsibility for economic and social damages to the descendents of an slavery . Thank you chairman. The most obvious reason is because the federal government is complicit in it. The article you spoke about, this period of White Supremacy that you referenced in the headline, it is so broad. If i tried to cover in one article it wouldve been impossible. Is focused on a specific thing. Specifically in the city of chicago. The federal government was deeply complicit in housings arrogation and redlining. It would not have existed if the fha had not had a policy of not ensuring loans for black People Living in chicago. It would not have existed if not for the redlining map. Which were created by this government of every major city in the country. Which effectively relegated black people whether they had a down payment or not. Outside of a class of people who could benefit from a movement which basically created our modern middleclass. I do not know how it would be possible to exempt the federal government from such a process. Furthermore i have to make this point over and over. Many people who were victimized by housing segregation are very much alive today. This is not strictly about the identifiable victims. Who were there and were ready to be part of the process. Thank you sir. Reverend sutton let me ask you you heard a testimony. Do you believe, this would be a study of reparations. It would be a study. Do you believe there should be exclusions for wealthy folks who have been successful and may be emphasized deeds and works in actions that help the people who have not achieved as much but help lift them up . One of the reasons why it was so widely excepted. I believe one of the reasons why the bow for reparations as widely excepted and my diocese is because we separated it from black descendents of slaves getting checks. Were talking about Funding Initiatives and programs and addressing issues such as mass incarceration. When that is explained to people that is a reparation that is repairing something that can be traced to slavery. Then that is the case. Personally im not looking for a check from the federal government. I am concerned about those who have been left behind. The masses of africanamerican descendents of slaves who are admired and hopelessness and despair and communities of crime and violence and racism. I think if we can at least have a civil good conversation on the concept of reparations, then talk about money. The moment you Start Talking about money the idea, especially among many white persons, im going to give a check to black persons . What about me. The moment you begin with money the resistance goes up. Lets talk about the concept. In relation to your question we have a problem in this nation of being able to talk civilly about race. When im talking about reparations im talking about those who left behind. Im talking to my White Brothers and sisters. You need this more than we do. You need this for your soul. You need this to be able to look black persons in the eye and say i acknowledge the mistake and i want to be part of a solution to repair the damage. Thank you reverend sutton. As he speaks to the soul dr. Malvo you speak to the economics. If some of this effort to remediate the past as dr. Ogletree has spoken about, massive influx of monies for health and education, if some of that when the areas where there are large concentrations of descendents of slaves that have not exceeded for a myriad of reasons and some of that when the white folks who were there were also living in bad conditions without be a problem . What that just be helping everybody . It is interesting. Reverend William Barber is having a hearing on poverty. This is a great day for Economic Justice issues. Poverty is a problem in our nation. You cannot fix poverty nor can you fix any quality unless you deal with racism. Dealing with racism is about dealing with reparations. Im with the reverend here. I dont care about personal checkmate. How about we fully fund our historically black colleges and universities . How about once upon a time brother chairman we had more than 1000 black owned banks. Now we have 23. How come . The devil is busy. It cause people to lose banks. Changing and reserve requirements. Things like that. Gender furcation. Why not deal with that. I respect your question about areas. That really does speak to our disease and our uneasiness and talking straight up and upfront about race. Race is our nations second original sin. The first was what we did to native people. Racism and enslavement was our original sin. We got to deal with reparations like dealing exactly with that. If we want american Marshall Plan that deals with all people , 43 of our nation lets deal with that. Lets not forget that race is central to anything we do around Economic Justice. Thank you dr. My time i recognize mr. Johnson for five minutes. Thank you to all of you for your time and your heartfelt sentiments. We know they are sincere. I want to thank you for your honesty and humility. I know this is an easy today. Here is a big question that hangs over all of this. All of us need to address it. Many people believe on all sides of the political spectrum that racial inequality that we see today is not entirely intramural to the legacy of slavery and jim crow. It is a factor. Can you elaborate on what some of the other factors may be . The first thing i would say is that blaming slavery and jim crow for the entirety of racial disparity, obviously it is clearly a factor. Blaming it for the entirety of the problems we see today facing black people is actually a wave of not taking responsibility for policy decisions that were made just in the last 50 years. Our prisons did not balloon until the 1980s. Unemployment for blackand white use were virtually identical until the late 1950s. By perversely by blaming slavery and jim crow for everything we actually failed to take responsibility for policy decisions that were made on both sides of the aisle in very recent history. Secondly, i would say that there is a naove assumption that wherever there is a statistical gap in outcomes between two groups that the gap must be attributable to some kind of discrimination. Whether that was structural and systemic, that assumption is not true. I will give one example. I could give dozens. According to 2015 census figures there is a . 21 on the dollar gap. . 21 on the dollar gap in Household Income between White Americans of russian descent and White Americans of french descent. Right . Disparity is the norm and not the exception. The question is not why two groups would have different outcomes, whether its for wealth, income or incarceration, the question is why we would expect any two groups with different histories and different geographical patterns and different patterns of migration and different cultures to nevertheless get exactly the same outcome. Mr. Owens thank you as well. I was moved by your testimony. The fact we are fighting for the heart of our nation. Everyone understands that. Here is a question. In your opinion is there a formula that allowed the Africanamerican Community to achieve the measures of success in the 1940s, 50s and 60s that it is missing today . There is. For talking about restitution, i have so much respect for the black men and women who built the great wall street. Not only did they have 60 millionaires they have international business. Within 12 hours it was destroyed by democratic. With a democratic president , Andrew Johnson took over they took the land back. They took away the guns and their land. Decided the Democratic Party, they exploited 4700 people. 1300 of them were white republicans. We have a lot of evil going on. There are certain people that belong to a certain area and a certain niche. We need to hold them accountable. Washington had four foundations. It was head, heart, and home. Heart is compassion and service. Home his family. The reason why my race were kicking but, they were so busy they were not looking at finding someone to blame for where they were. They were busy beating out the racist. Thats what my parents did. They held onto those principles for decades. Until the socialism marks, they stopped educating our kids. It has not been a gasp. 75 , 2017, the department of education study, you wonder where they will go from here . They will not learn anything about our country. They wont hear anything about we the people have done together. They will hear how bad they have been treated. They are going to hear how bad our country is. How bad white people are. They will be taught to disrespect our women and be put in jail. We will see and talk about why this is being done lets put a commission together. Why is this happening with so many of our kids not being educated in every single urban america city in our country . That is what our problem is. We blame people from years ago. We have yet to put together a commission. 82 of black teenager males are unemployed across our country. 93 in our liberal city of chicago were killing each other right and left. Not one peep about this misery thats going on in our country. I have something i want to read. Evil, if the person is the stealing of the hopes and dreams of an individual. True evil is the target of a race were dealing with pure evil. Dealing with the misery weve been dealing with and no one says a word. Thank you for that. Im out of time. I yield back. The gentlemans time has expired. The cahairman of the Judiciary Committee is recognized for five minutes. Im going to ask one question and then yield to the lady from california, ms. Bass. Mr. Coats, Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell on tuesday says he does not support reparations for the descendants of slaves. We elected an africanamerican president , closed quote. Theres an unconscionable denial and lack of knowledge in this nature about the true consequences of the Transatlantic Slave Trade and enslavement of africanamerican people in which american democracy, prosperity and White Privilege are founded. Mr. Coats based on your monumental essay, can you please describe briefly some of the continuing impacts and vestiges on the enslaving era of living africanamericans today . First of all, one of things i try to make clear in my testimony is we perceive the era of enslavement the greatest damage enslavement did besides the economic damage, besides the normalization of torture, of rape. Beside the normalization of treating people as though they are things is the institution in the American Mind that black people are necessarily inferior. In 1865 when black people were emancipated that belief did not magically dissipate. It proceeded for 100 years afterwards. It proceeded as i said in my testimony well into the lifetime of many panel members, Majority Leader Mitch Mcconnell and with many other people here in this audience. So its not a matter of the past. These things are linked. Its been said i think or alluded to repeatedly throughout this conversation that somehow wealthy africanamericans are immune to these effects, and in addition to the wealth gap thats cited one thing that folks should keep in mind is that quoteunquote wealthy of concern americans are not the equivalent of quoteunquote wealthy White Americans in this country. The average africanamerican family in this country making 100,000, you know, decent money actually lives in the same kind of neighborhood that the average white family making 30,000 a year lives in. That is totally tied to the legacy of enslavement and jim crow and the input and the idea in the minds that white people and black people are somehow deserving of different things. If i injure you, the injury persists even after i actually commit the act. If i stab you, you may suffer complications long after that initial actual stabbing. If i shoot you, you may suffer complications long after that initial shooting. Thats the case with africanamericans. There are people well within the living memory of this country thats still suffering from the after effects of that. Thank you very much. I yield. I yield to the young lady from california, ms. Bass. Thank you very much, mr. Chair. And all of the witnesses that are here today and representative jackson lee for doing this legislation. And this is just such an important moment in our history, but i just wanted to spend a couple of minutes talking about how we have viewed this issue and why were even having this hearing today. Its so important because i believe that in this country we have never been able to come to grips with our history. We either dont know our history or we deny it. When we talk about the 250 years of enslavement, we call it a sin. We call it a mistake. We say it was a subset of american, not the entire nation. We say it was inconsistent with the values of our nations, founding that was something that happened long ago. And why cant we get past it, why cant we move on, why do you keep bringing it up . Slavery might have ended in the mid1800s but apart hide and terrorism lasted after that. We passed a lynching bill last week. Why did we even have to do that. There was a man that was executed two weeks ago for a lynching that took place in texas. There are many murders that have happened that people are still wondering whether or not they were lynches. We have to say in our country we pride ourselves with development but refuse to acknowledge the reason why we have the development that we do is because the first 200 years of our history was done with free labor. The south enslaved africanamericans, but the norths economy flourished by that. And i believe our economists explained in detail of that. So our fundamental problem is our ignorance of history, our refusal to admit it. Everyone understands the pain caused by people who deny the holocaust. Deep pain is caused by this. And deep pain is caused by our country that cannot acknowledge what has happened here. I want to say that it should be obvious but the entire Congressional Black Caucus supports this legislation. We have problems denying we think that racism sometimes its trivialized as behavior, as ideas and were all equally racist because we refuse to accept the fact that racism is ingrained in our institutions. We say there must have been something that 12yearold did to have gotten shot. We say that must have been a reason that Police Officer pulled that gun on that pregnant woman last week on her two babies. We dont see the connection with this because we refuse to admit it. Hr40 calls for the establishment of a commission, it does not call for checks. We tribbialize reparations by saying these are africanamericans who just want to be paid. I think mr. Coats goes into details more than that. And frankly when i hear from my colleagues on the other side of the aisle that we need to be encouraged to work harder, to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, that we can actually achieve, that thats the only thing thats the problem. And then to talk about the Democratic Party i think maybe people dont remember who fanny lou hammer was. Black folks fought the Democratic Party. Nobody acts as though the Democratic Party was not a racist party until there was a movement that fought for justice. I am glad that we are having this hearing today. I thank my colleagues for doing it. I look forward to this legislation moving to the floor. And once again i just want to emphasize at what point can we in this country have a conversation about race . We will never get past it until we can have a conversation. And the conversation begins with a commission. Thank you. Now id like to recognize let me have a word, please, because i wear several hats and certainly most people consider me the one hat that know me from the hat i wear as an artist and an activist and an artist, but i worked in City Government for 6 1 2 years since 1971 and the program in San Francisco, california, for 6 1 2 years i worked both in a mission and Africanamerican Community at that particular opponent in time. And the realization about the programs, about the great society, those programs that came about. And ive seen i saw those programs eviscerated. Those programs in a sense designed to bring great opportunities and great hope lasted only a short period of time. So i certainly understand that because ive lived in the same community my entire life in San Francisco. My mother, a migrant and someone who met my father and came to San Francisco after world war ii. They became they became they had decent jobs. They worked for the Postal Office in 1948. They were able to raise a family on that income as well. They were able to eventually buy a house in the same neighborhood that i live in right now. They were also also they were part of that generation who were the first beneficiaries of the upcoming ongoing civil rights movement. Ive watched that city and worked in that city, and im just talking about the city of San Francisco, this liberal city that has this great tradition around labor and Everything Else. We talk about harry bridges and what he did and bringing africanamericans to and ive watched evisceration of cities and peoples life because of crack cocaine and mass incarceration as well, right in my neighborhood. So those are the kind of longterm impacts that we dont realize that happen. Those children who are the descendants of not only slaves but had the opportunities after world war ii, those children did not have the same opportunities, and now those children are abandoned as adults in that city, in that great city. So i think we have to kind of look at this as people have said often that this is just a study and a look at racism and all of its manifestation in terms of gentrification as well. I was in the philmore area in 1966 when people were just desperate to find different ways of which they were not being removed from their community. These are real issues that happen. Theyre longstanding issues that go back and find themselves resonating in slavery and going further than that. All the material we have, all the books we have now, all the studies that have been done has outlined that. We have to begin to tell ourselves the truth. The great writer once said if we cannot tell ourselves the truth about the past we become trapped in it. And thats what we are. This country has become trapped in not telling the truth, and weve got to start that as a leverage right there. We talk about education about mass literacy are important. And we have to talk about education and preparing our children for 21st century citizenship, and thats what it is. Of those people who have been most disadvantaged historically we crave a better country here. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. Chairman, may i suggest no, we cant. Ware were not going to get out of order. The panel the way we operate is we go from member to member and ask questions and if the next person wants to ask you they can ask you. Representative, youre recognized for five minutes. I want to thank the witnesses for being here. Mr. Coats, i followed your career with interest. Mr. Glover, im a big fan and i want to thank the witnesses for their remarks. Mr. Hughes, i wanted to ask if there was anything that was said previously that youd like to respond to . Yeah, id like to address myself to the comments made on the subject of us not knowing our history, of us not having told the truth about slavery and jim crow. It strikes me that this is not exactly true. Mr. Glover mentioned all of the studies and books that had been written on the subject. I would argue, in fact, that in the 10,000year history of slavery on every continent, there is not a single example of slavery that has been more studied than slavery in america from the 17th century to the 19th century. So its actually not true that weve not told the truth that we dont know our history. More over, in the past 50 years if were talking about what scholars in america and the American Social sciences have directed their attention towards, it is hard to find a subject on which more books have been written that has been more studied than racial inequality. Thank you. Thank you for that. Mr. Owens, i followed your career with interest as well. Can you speak to specifically your career in the nfl and also you spoke of your family. What was the greatest legacy or lessons from our family that brought you to the opinions you have now am. The greatest legacy, my dad who served down in world war ii. He eventually got to ohio state where he got his phd and went onto become a very successful entrepreneur, researcher and someone whos very proud of our race. If they pull themselves up by their bootstraps, work harder than the next guy and thats not racist, thats the american way. We work harder than the next guy. The greatest legacy from him was my belief i would do everything i could to make sure he was proud i held his fame. The greatest thing for my mom, me dad and i never, ever thought of disrespecting mom. We have come to a point we allow our young men to disrespect women. We have underdeveloped men and allow our boys to call things like baby moms and Everything Else in the book. Its about policies, guys. Its not about 20 years ago. We have kids in the state of california that is against antichoice, by the way. These kids are stuck in these failing schools because we have a party thats against them moving onto someplace else. We have the act 1932 put in place specifically to help to stop blacks from competing against white unions. Still in place today. You wonder why we have so high unemployment, why our Business Ownership has gone down. It keeps our young people out of work. It keeps them theyre too expensive to higher to get started if you have a higher minimum wage. Open borders hurts our race, period. Period. Its common sense. If you have nonamericans coming in paying lower wages, we get hurt first. Weve got to understand that. Lets get this thing right, guys. Its about our people, my race. We are just as good as anyone else there given the right opportunity. Were telling them because of their skin color theyre already against every opportunities out there and stealing their dreams. We cant afford to do that. So my parents generation, the greatest generation in the history of man kind whip out those other guys who are working harder and show them theyre wrong, and we did that. Thank you for that. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you, sir. Mr. Raskin is now recognized for five minutes. Thank you very much. Im sorry. I saw ms. Lawrence here earlier and she disappeared and shes back, and i want to recognize the distinguished im sorry, ms. Lawrence was here and shes gone. She was sitting there. So ms. Lawrence, thank you. Representative ras kkin, youre on. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Both sides seem to agree this is something that should have been done long ago. I think mr. Coats, you said that. There was an effort after the civil war and reconstruction organized around a fuel command i think president lincoln issued to redistribute 40 acres and a mule. And it never happened and it was interrupted and we had a period of a decade of active National Investment in reconstruction in the south that was undone by White Supremacy. And so we were never able to follow through on the political, economic, and social promise of reconstruction. So given this history and the distance between now and slavery and then the continuing injuries of racism with jim crow and with the sharecropper system and the criminalization of the africanamerican copulation after the civil war, mr. Coats, let me ask you what are the deferences in approach that have to be taken now given the distance of time that has lapsed than if it had been done completely right after the civil war and reconstruction had been allowed to run its course for a period of several decades before this socalled redemption took place . Sure. If i could just address the notion of slavery having been well studied and understood. I think my fellow panel member is quite correct that at this moment in history its certainly true the system of enslavement in america has probably been the most studied in america. Thats not particularly surprising given the extensive and revolutionary and wide system of universities we have in this country, which is also probably unprecedented and also probably a new development. But i think even given that, its worth noting the lack of penetration that those studies have had into the American Mindset. I dont know if its still here but relatively recently there was a stoochue garden here in the capitol i believe had stoochus of general lee and alexander stevens. And one has to ask if in the capitol people understood the history of this country why there would be statues honoring people who led a revolution and why destroy it. Why for instance in the state of mississippi there still was a flag flying dedicated to people who tried to destroy this country . Why only a couple of years ago we saw the murder of Heather Heyer and that was precipitated by a movement to erect a new group of statues and remove the statue of general lee. And while its been well studied i dont know that americans quite understand it. At this very point you can get at least a plurality of why americans will tell you the civil war was about states rights with no conversation about state rights to do what. In terms of the differences in approach today, what i would say is thats why we need hr40. Thats exactly what were here to discuss in the first place. Im very skeptical of the notion one person should stand up for speak for 40 million africanamericans, one person should stand up for speak for all the generations that came before me. I think the proper thing to do is convene a discussion and study about what exactly the damage was and what potential remedy might be offered and also to convene conversations around the country. I also would like to say theres been a lot of shall we say shade throwing on the notion of cutting checks. I just want to say, you know, in the spirit of openness, in the spirit of actual study i dont think we should necessarily rule out cutting check. There are people who deserve checks. And i think that actually should be part of the study. We arent ruling out any solution. I dont think we should rule out that one either. Thank you for your emphasis on what hr40 would do. It would setup a commission to study all the different dimensions and ramifications of reparations and what it means. Because i think one of the productive aspects of this conversation has been that weve learned its not just about cutting checks although its not to the exclusion of that, but its about rethinking our relationship to this whole history, which has been so injui injurious to so many of our people. I move to the fact it is Congress Taking this up seriously. As we said before enslaved americans helped to build the capitol where congress meet. Enslaved americans helped to build the white house where the president sleeps, and there was a slave market across the street where the Supreme Court stands today. And of course that was the Supreme Court that gave america the dred scott decision in the Supreme Court and gave us plessy vs. Ferguson. But my division here is why is it that congress should be the one to act . You would think we would rely on the Supreme Court for justice in this country but people are counting on congress to act and perhaps reverend let me come to you about that. By the way, i do have to identify the fact we have two great marylanders today. So reverend sutton. First off let me say that i am a bit dismayed and appalled that my brother analyst here when we were talking about reparations goes to family and all that. Of course were all hardworking and of course we are for families. I just dont want the impression to be if those are for reparations dont know about the role of family. While were on that point let me just ask you okay. And why congress . Because youre leaders. And legislation helped to get us into this mess. Legislation has a role. The church has a role. Our educational systems have a role, and maybe even the Supreme Court and hopefully even the president. But your role is to redress some of what your predecessors did in this congress. And so i think youre the only body that can call for this commission that desperately need to happen. Thank you, reverend and thank you mr. Raskin. Thank you. Appreciate the witnesses being here, and mr. Glover any time i see your name listed as being in a movie i normally say thats one i will enjoy and appreciate your body of work throughout your career. Youve provided a great deal of enjoyment even in the dramas, so thank you for that. I had a colleague mention an execution in texas. That was the incident arose down in jasper where three white men drugged a black men to death. I support the Death Penalty, i was a judge who assessed the Death Penalty, and i wouldnt have a problem in a law that said in a situation like that the victims family can choose the manner and means of carrying out the Death Penalty. But we dont have that law. That case was also heralded as the poster case for needing hate crime legislation when actually under the hate crime legislation it was so heralded and passed, there is no Death Penalty. The only way these guys got the Death Penalty finally after 21 years, the most culpable guy finally was executed here recently. He should have been. The Death Penalty i hear constantly being referred to as being racist. I know in my own court the statistics will show that three individuals charged and tried for capital murder. Two were white, one was black. Based on the jury findings i assessed the two white men to be put to death and the black gentleman was sentenced to life for his murder. The hate crime laws had nothing to do with actually carrying out the executions in the appropriate case as therapy in jasper. I also heard a colleague talking about it is critical to know our history and i have some screen shots here of Democratic Party and its interesting. And also this wall street journal article, the democrats missing history i object i ask unanimous consent on both of those, so thank you, mr. Chair. Theres no reference in the history of the Democratic Party platform supporting slavery. There were six of those from 1840 to 1860, no reference to democratic president s who owned slaves, democratic platforms who either supported segregation outright or were silent on the subject. Tlfrp there were 50, and nor were their reference to democratic role played in creating them. Also theres no reference that three fourths of the opposition in the 1964 Civil Rights Act, what came in the house from democrats or that 80 of the nay votes in the senate came from democrats. Theres certainly no reference to the fact the opposition included future senator al gore, senior father of Vice President al gore. And last but certainly not least theres no reference to the fact that birmingham, alabama, Public Safety commissioner bull conor who infamously unleashed dogs and hoses on civil rights protesters was in fact both a member of the National Committee and the ku klux klan. So it is important that we know our history and we not punish people today for the sins of their predecessors in the Democratic Party. You lie. I just stated all facts and again we have people who are denying history. Thats not helpful to our discussion. But mr. Owens i would ask you understanding that todays claim that the republicans are the party of racism, what do you think your great great grandfather silas would have said to someone who claims republicans are the party of racism . Well, my great grandfather lived through that period, and he wouldnt have said that because at that time all blacks were republicans because that was the party that gave them freedom. Let me just ask, have you suffered from taking these conservative positions . I guess what it comes down to is i dont think ive suffered at all. Im thankful going through an age i was the fourth black American University of miami, one of the first blacks to integrate in schools. I understood exactly what racism looked like and how it felt. But my my mom said one thing ver specifically because i was kind of going through this phase. Make sure you dont make someone elses problem become yours. The other thing was that my dad taught us very simply to be a leader. If its right, do it. If its wrong, dont. I love my country, my race, my family. And then comes all the other stuff of being accepted or liked. It makes no difference to me. Were in a very point in our country today where black americans are waking up and i know a lot might not agree with what im saying. Thats okay. Just listen. Let it simmer a little bit. Look around and see where our misery is being done today. Our miseries in the urban communities throughout our country where our kids have no hope, no jobs, no family, no dad and no one telling them they can make it. If we understand that and we take responsibility of sever single thing our generation has done in our past we are feeling them big time if we dont change our narrative. These kids can do it, we just have to believe in them, give them opportunities and tell them to man up and woman up. Its okay if things get wrong or god wouldnt be a fair god. When it goes sideways, stand up, woman up and lets get back on track. Time is up for mr. Gomer, and were going to move on. I thank all of you for being here today. First id like to recognize the congressman with us today. Another reminder to the crowd, next person that screams out may be asked to be remove. Weve got to have order. So keep it together. Representative swalwell, youre recognized for five minutes. Thank you, chairman. Im a proud cosponsor of hr40. Ive listened to some of my colleagues, mr. Glover, tell you how much they like your movies. And i have to say we didnt come here to talk about your movies, we came here to talk about your activism. I like your activism. I also like your movies, but i want to give you a chance because i havent heard the other side. I want to tell you that they like your movies, that they want to hear what you have to say on this important issue. The Senate Majority leader has said that no one living is responsible and theres no way to compensate for this and he suggested theres no way to pay for it. I guess id ask you, mr. Glover, would you agree that if a black College Graduate is paying on average about 10,000 pomore in student loan debt, were paying for it. Would you agree that if the black population is disproportionately incarcerated than any other population that were paying for it . And would you believe and agree that if the Health Care Costs for a black family are extraordinarily higher than for a white family, that were actually already paying for it . Statistics would suggest that. But, well, i think theres such discussion that we seem to miss the point on and often as we talk about the different, different issues that we deal with in this country and the issue of whether were talking historically or how those feelings manifest themselves in our policy and what we do today, in a sense. And i think a part of what we dont do today is to evoke the kind of spirit that was so essential in this countrys formation. In this country in the moments when there were radical changes in this country. We often talk about the right organized labor to organize, the impact it had on the Africanamerican Community and past the end of world war ii, the benefits that were accrued at that particular point and those people who struggled from that whether its ema goldman or w. B. Debois who raised the bar with respect to i think our sense of revolutionary and that sense and what i think with the incredible wealth that this country has and resources this country has and the capacity to do what it once has done when i came into the world there were opportunities that were different than previous generations. There were more schools that were built instead of prisons. There were more opportunities for employment and new opportunities for employment. There was more Infrastructure Development and all those things in our own ability and my own enhancement personally and collectively as well. And so i think when we talk about them and when i went to college certainly i didnt have the debt responsibility that students have now. And certainly theres ways in which we can mediate that. Certainly there have been arguments whether college should be free, whether there should be moral colleges, et cetera, et cetera and provide different opportunities. But we also have the transformation of a society that was an industrial society, an Industrial Work force. And now that depends on directly on different forms of intelligence and certainly technology. And thats a place where those who are most vulnerable across the board have not been and they have not been how you say they have not benefitted from those new technologies. And so im saying so the picture were not painting is a much larger picture within the dangers we have, relative global warming, Climate Change and all the other issues. We can say right now the Health Condition of africanamericans is pretty desperate in places. They live in toxic situations. We can talk about environmental that we havent talked about and that would be the study we talk about apparently about hr40 so there are various things. So to begin to kind of like codify this i think the broader look at this as studied would also reveal some other things about what can happen and what the possibility is. It seems as if we if dr. King said, you know, imagination is the critical vehicle for us, Albert Einstein said our imagination is so important then certainly the capacity we have in terms of imagining a Better Future certainly for africanamerican children and africanamericans, the descendants of slaves, we also would imagine better opportunities for this country as well. Mr. Chairman, can i just say to your i wanted to put this on the record. I was not in the house when your resolution came up for a vote. But i would have voted to support it. I am sorry that its something our government was responsible for, and Mitch Mcconnell may be right that no one alive is responsible for what happened then, but everyone alive is responsible to do something now. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I would like to yield to my Ranking Member, my colleague from louisiana. I wanted to pitch it back to mr. Hughes for a moment. In spite of your relative young age youve had some valuable experience publicly discussing sensitive issues of race and culture. And i just wonder what advice you would give to young people who are thinking about this. As mr. Owens said everyone ought to let that marinate a little bit. Its been said ignorance oporhistory is big part of this. Whats the response and what advice do you give to young people . Well, i would urge people to observe the distinction between understanding history and responding to history. You can understand history and it can still be the case that you have a range of possible responses in front of you. So addressing myself to mr. Coates comments before if i understand them is if we really understood our history then we wouldnt keep confederate statues up. For example, therefore the fact theyre still up implies we dont really understand it in our bones, and that i think highlights a distinction between how i think about this issue and how other people on the panel think about it. For example, there was a poll in the Washington Post last year which found that 30 of black virginians wanted the confederate statues to stay up. Now, i dont think they wanted that because they hated themselves. I dont think they wanted that because they didnt understand their own history. Perhaps there were people who just didnt like seeing their communities change. There are many people like that, and i respect that. Even though i myself would be fine to see those statues come down. So the point here is that our response, whether or not you agree with it, is not evidence itself we understand our history. And we can have two separate conversations. One is what happened in this country, what was done to black people . What harm was incurred. And the second conversation is what do we do about that . And that second conversation the answer to that second conversation is not selfevident from the answer to the first. Thank you. I see mr. Owens making notes over there. I know you have a lot to contribute on this subject. You do a lot with young people whch what would you add to that . I would first of all say we live in the United States of america, the greatest country in the history of man kind, a place that every person who comes here that applies ourselves to the rules, to the standards in which we all can succeed, treat people right, be honest, dream big, dream above our obstacles and get back up when you fall down, and then they can make it. History is there for us to find out and gauge ourselves on how far weve come. 50 years ago guys fighting on the football field were some of my best friends on facebook today because weve all grown up. Weve all understood that message from our fathers was incorrect. We were doing our best to make sure we move forward as better people. This country, ever generation, works to find its better self. As long as we dont reach back and define ourselves by the worst of ourselves thats what too many people are doing today. We have too many people in this country and we call them elitists. They live the American Dream, put their kids in the best places ever, were going to have a great retirement and then tell the rest of our race they cant do it. Why . Because the white men wont let them. I personally think thats an insult to my parents, my grandparents. I did not grow up around white people since i was 16 years old and i was so proud to be in that community i grew up in tallahassee, florida, because we were kicking butt. We were leading our kids. They were teaching us how to be proud americans. When i went to west point, i went to the university of miami to study biology. By the time i was in my junior year i decided i didnt want to do biology anymore. The reason why i stayed with it is a white guy said i couldnt do it. I lived in a library to prove that guy wrong. Thats the way our race was, and thats the way our race needs to be again. What we can achieve, and i think whats happened in the past. What strangers did to other strangers 20 years ago has nothing to do with us because that is not in our dna. Thank you, mr. Hughes. Ive got one more question and i hope you can answer it. You wrote an article a while back entitled black American Culture and the racial wealth gap, and you talked about specifically the city of boston. And there was a disparity within the black community, and youve pointed out that black bostonians of american assestry had a median Household Wealth of 8, but caribbean ancestry had 12,000 of wealth. This goes back to the point i made before about disparities even within races being normal. If you look at census figures for White Americans and break it down instead of talking about quoteunquote white people into white people of french ancestry, russian ancestry, swedish ancestry, youll find all kind of disparities that by definition cannot be caused by some sort of systemic and Something Like 10 of black people in this country are immigrants from places like jamaica, haiti, nigeria are, ghana. And if you look at each individual group you will find various disparities in welt, income, crime rates and that by definition cant be explained by either race or racism. And my point in citing that disparity is to upset the notion that if society were fair, evidence of that would be equal outcomes between all groups because there are so many differences historically in groups themselves geographically just in terms of median age. The average black person in this country is ten years younger than the average person. So when youre comparing blacks to white, thats just one of the many ways youre not just comparing apples to apples. So my point was just to upset that lazy assumption we make about those outcomes. I yield back. Thank you, sir. Next recognized is scanlen for five minutes. Thank you. Before coming to Congress Just last november i was a Public Interest attorney, and so my work focused on access to justice, access to the ballot, and access to a good public education. And all three forms of access as weve been discussing here today are too often denied to people of color and poor people. And unfortunately, as weve discussed theres a d disproportionate reputation, and i wanted to ask some questions to talk about the relationship between the structural legacy of slavery and racism and a couple of issues top of mind in my district. So one of them, and thank you for mentioning it, mr. Glover, is Environmental Justice. The city of jester is in my district. Its a majority africanAmerican Population and it is surrounded by heavily polluting industries. Just sunday night cnns united shades of america, featured the incinerators there. One in four children, africanamerican children, in my district have asthma largely as a result of these environmental factors. So weve got this Environmental Justice issue were dealing with. Weve got schools issues. Pennsylvania has one of the most wildly inequitable Public School funding systems. And if you go to the schools in philadelphia and some of the other majority africanamerican School Districts you see schools that are over 100 years old, and literally visiting them theres asbestos and lead paint dripping into the water fountains that the children have to use. And then a third issue which was also touched on is our policing and criminal justice issues where africanamerican folks are locked up at what five times the rate of white people. So how does the reparations conversation help us drive forward those issues . How can i link it for folks in my district to the issues theyre facing daily . And if i could ask reverend sutton and there mr. Coates to maybe address that . Thank you. Those issues are linked. We have to make a distinction between personal responsibility and social responsibility. Ive gone to the high schools in baltimore as well. And we even sponsor programs to convince High Schoolers you can do this, you can succeed, you can make it. Thats personal responsibility. But when you go in the schools and you see the conditions, you see the quality of the teaching and all that, you know that they dont have the same shot as those who live 10 miles away or 5 miles away in their school systems. One of the ways is to make sure theres a Corporate Responsibility we all have for our citizens. We can all celebrate the tremendous strides that have been made in Racial Attitudes in this country. Were proud of the accomplishments of many africanamerican individuals. Im proud of my accomplishments, ive worked very hard with my brothers and sisters. But for the millions of descendants of slavesed in this pernicious cycle of poverty and rage, due to their real experience of inequities, segregation, red lining and the like, the widespread assumption that everyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps is a lie. Its a falsehood. And thats one of the things that this legislation wants to address. Thank you, mr. Coates. This is going to get repetitive, i think it comes back to the way of history. Ive heard it said just earlier, for instance, the matters which face us today have nothing to do with our strangers from 200 years ago. Thats not the attitude we take towards George Washington. Thats not the attitude we take towards abe lincoln. We take that attitude through history were ashamed of. We dont take that attitude towards history that were proud of. As i said earlier i asked another question and one of the great waits of 250 years of enslavement in this concry which is longer than the freedom africanamericans have enjoyed is the codification of the idea of inferiority in black people and not just in the culture but the very laws themselves. And even after those laws are repealed as well they should, the idea still remains and its passed on. And so for instance it was just by one of my fellow committee members, there was a difference between the incomes of caribbean black immigrants and native blacks. This is true. Its also quite understandable. People who come to america to pursue opportunity generally tend to do better than the masses of a whole group that have been here. This is true of all immigrants, so this is not particularly surprising. But what happens when you look at that Second Generation . What happens when you look at that Third Generation of caribbean blacks . In fact, unlike all other groups they quickly become africanamerican blacks in terms of their other statistics. Why is that . Its the weight of history and codified in our laws and Justice System, in the very places we live to this very day. There is no way to get out of this. There is no way of escaping this without a direct confrontation, without hr40, the very reason were here. Thank you very much. Thank you, ms. Scanlen. Id like to recognize mr. Wade henderson who was here. Hes the president of the Leadership Conference on human and civil rights and a great hero for many years. Thank you for your attendance and years of work. Mr. Hillary shelten was here earlier. Ms. Dean, youre recognized for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman and i thank you for having this hearing. As troubling as this topic is, i cant tell you how grad that were here today. I cant tell you how glad that this conversation is taking place. So i thank my colleague from texas, ms. Jackson lee for her extraordinary tenacious leadership on this legislation. Were here to acknowledge this terrible wrong in history to recognize the continuation of those injuries, and thats one area i want to examine kickly if i can and discover a remedy to these atrocities. Some measure of healing for this country, so if i could take a look in the time im allotted at two things. Mr. Coates, i wanted to ask you about the ongoing predatory practices. I also happen to be a member of the Services Committee and weve examined for example some of the practices by wells fargo, subprime lending in the Africanamerican Community. Too often we hear this is something of the past, this is not happening today, youre dealing with something past. Its not past. The discrimination, the atrocities continue. So if you could help me with the predatory practices. And then i want to try to lift it a little after that because i love what you said right, reverend, it is important for our White Brothers and sisters. We need this if not much for the healing of our soul, for the healing of the soul of this country. And you talked about the liberating power of having this conversation and taking a look at this. If we talk about ongoing predatory practices and discrimination and maybe take it to the other side. Sure. As i was saying earlier its like any other injury, theres the primary effect and the second effects of that injury. Africanamericans have a history of segregation in this country. What that means is not nearly living separately from whites. It means living separately from whites with the explicit purpose of denying benefits and certain resources to black people. In the case of the housing history in the 20th century what that meant is that for long periods of time while this country was making access and making available to middle class and working class white families low interest loans, the possibility of homeownership which had not been available in the previous preceding decades, black people were completely cut out of that process. But still there was that dream of buying a home. And so what that gap left was for predatory lending to come in, illegitimate lending that did not enjoy the backing of the fha to come into black neighborhoods and make loans under conditions that were to say the least onerous. In some cases black folks didnt actually own the homes. This process of contract lending. Can you give us a quick definition of that . The basic idea of contract lending because i dont have access to normal routes of banking to buy a home, and so a contract lender comes in and pretends to actually sell me the home and gives me all the responsibilities as a homeowner, the up keep, the maintenance, the taxes et cetera but actually holds onto the deed. Its a hitech what do you call rent as you buy rent option. And the other practice wells fargo participated in in a huge way in the early 2000s, 2005, as quoted by a former wells fargo loan officer they went into black communities particularly through their churches and pushed subprime lending mortgages on those folks who would have qualified likely for regular mortgages. And she said we went right after them. Shes a former member of wells fargo. Wells fargo mortgage had an emerging market unit and specifically targeted black churches because it figured Church Leaders had a lot of influence, and we could convince cong congregants to take subprime loans. Thats recent. Thats ongoing types of stuff. Thats egregious. So anybody who says these are things of the past isnt paying attention. The reason why i keep insisting on history is the very fact that group of people were vulnerable in the first place is because of the red lining of jim crow. And i apologize. But ms. Brown, if you dont mind im prom pennsylvania, suburban philadelphia. So if you could talk about that notion as a result of looking at your own history, can you tell us what that felt like and why we should argue that for us and participate that picture . Thank you so much. Theres so many layers to it. What hasnt been mentioned today is the fact that race is a fiction. And slavery, the very concept of race and of one race being superior to another was invented to justify slavery, and it was also deployed in order to have White Working Class like indentured servants back in virginia, like in the colonial eerla identify with this notion of whiteness and with wealth yr whites rather than identify with enslaved africans and native people with whom they had common cause, so theres a lot of layers to this history that i think for a lot of White Americans who feel like this is just an accusation, and this is just yet another case of calling their people historically racist or calling them racist today, in my experience the Africanamerican Community is much more sophisticated about understanding that some of these dynamics, for example, with the gi bill and whatnot, its mundane complicity of white folks who are benefitting from a system and looking the other way. Theyre not necessarily getting up in the morning and saying i want to be racist. And theres an understanding of that amongst those of us who are in the field doing this work. So theyre just, again, coming back to the learning of the history. Its liberatory to get even beyond the concept of race. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I know im over. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And first i want to thank the chairman for bringing this forward and of course to my colleague from houston we have worked for many years on so many social justice issues at home. Its just great to stand with you again and this time here on such a very Important National topic. Im a cosponsor and i pledge to you that i will work shoulder to shoulder with you to make sure we get this done. And to all the people in the audience, thank you for being here. I know its been a long hearing, but i think its going to be thank you for being here, and i know youve been waiting, but i think the waiting will be worth it when we get to the end of the tunnel. So thank you all for being here. And bishop, i wanted to start with you because it really did warm my heart that you have some scriptur scriptured notes here and that you mention jesus. I have a deeply religious belief we really are created equal and we reallygod. And i want you to just pretend that instead of speaking to us right now, that you are speaking to the average american , who may not have Read Everything that we have, who may not have been as attuned to this hearing, but is kind of wondering what this is really all about . Because as much as you say and others have said, that this isnt about a check, the bottom line is that when some people Start Talking about reparations, they think that it is just about that. So, my question to you is, what would jesus do about reparations . Well, when it comes to those questions, i have to rely on people, i am in sales, not management. Very nice. Its a good start. But, i want to be clear, it is not just about a check. Correct. What i think of, i think about some africanamerican women were languishing in Nursing Homes, with no money, no wealth, lets cut a check. I think about some others where a check would be really, really good. I just wanted to be clear about this. But its not essentially about money. It is about being good. There has been talk here about our nation being a great nation. Or, to make it great again. Or, the greatest nation of all. I am more concerned about this nation being good. Lets be good. Lets do a good thing. And if we can be good enough, then let history and people around the world say, the United States is great. Not because you can make a lot of money there, not because you can enrich yourself, not because of the size of your military, or your armies. They are great because they are good. So, i am here today to witness to being good about this. That there is some Unfinished Business in this nation. Lastly, about the soles. 1903, web dubois wrote that famous book how the soul, the souls of black folk. I would like to see another book written, the souls of white folk. The souls of white folk in the station my. What does it do to your soul to know that some of the benefit you get from your white skin, and your background is not accrued everybody. What does that do to your soul . And so, this is a sulfur, a soulful act that think we are talking about today. It is really going to take all of us. I said earlier that we have forgiven you, and that what i mean is, we are here. We are in america. We want america to be good and great. Desmond tutu, Archbishop Desmond tutu of south africa said once, without forgiveness, there is the future. We have to forgive one another. But that doesnt mean we stop there. We have work to do. And lets work for reconciliation. I wonder if my sister here actually a question mr. Coates. It had to go really clearly. I had one question for mr. Coates. If you wanted at Something Real quick. Im running out of time. I know that. Its a little frustrating the economic questions are being directed to noneconomists. Think i have some things that i would like to be able to say about some of this. But thank you, Brother Court for passing the mic. I really appreciate it. The questions about predatory lending, really needs your sister congresswoman raised, really need to be dealt with. Because it is not just something that is happening if youre going to talk about predatory lending, can you also, i was going to, can you answer also. This whole history of the exclusion of blacks from some of the early like Social Security and. Because it all is about economic security. So, if you could answer that, that would be great. Sure. I my time again giggled both questions in. We could go back and go back to minimum wage which excluded farmworkers in the south. Excluded domestic workers, who are black women. So, these folks were excluded, not only from the minimum wage, but also, from the Social Security system. So, your comment about black women in Nursing Homes is very pointed, giving all that. We have to look at this. The hearts and minds question of, i am an economist. I will leave that to the referent. But what i want, my thing is, lets look at the economic underpinnings of the inequality that exists in this country. The wealth gap that exists in this country. And the difference is that it makes. This congresswoman, when you talk about predatory lending, one third of the people who have predatory loans qualified for regular loans. A third of them. However, they did not get the because of the way that slavery , racism, basically segregated people. Its lovely to sing cool by al, which i dont do very often. I think it is even better to talk about what is going on economically, and the differences that exist because of the wealth gap. When a black woman, man, is arrested, daily up in the jail for i dont know how many days because they dont have the home, the mortgage, to get the bail. A cash bail is discriminatory. So, we could just go down the list and talk about the very many ways that racism affects the quality of folks lives. With all due respect to these kumbaya brothers over here who, you know, i thought about family, too. I have a phd. Have two mbas im not going to give you a family history. But it is irrelevant. It is irrelevant when you are dealing with structure. I want you all congresspeople to deal with issues of economic structure, economic structure as generated in inequality makes it difficult for people to live their lives. With the zip code determines what kind of school that you go to. When a zip code determines what kind of food you can eat. These are the vestiges of enslavement. A lot of people that want to deal with. Forgive my, im condo overthe top. But i usually am. Audience tick, tick, boom. The fact is that, i am gratified, sheila, congresswoman jacksonlee, for the hearings. But i am also frustrated for the town that some of this has taken. Because it economic underpinnings what needs to go on here. Thank you. [ applause ] thank you mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you mr. Chairman. I yield to the gentleman from louisiana. I think my colleague. This is really bad a thoughtful discussion. We have more to go. Thanks everybody for the patients. I just want to touch on something the reverend said a moment ago. About america being good. It is good. It is the greatest nation in history of the world. There is a reason for that. Gk chesterton was at the famous bridge philosopher. Is that americas the only nation in the world that is founded upon a great. And he said it is listed with all those theological acidity in the declaration of independence. What of the creek . We are the first people in the history of the world that openly acknowledged, boldly declare, that we are created in the image of god and therefore, every Single Person has inalienable human rights. That is a selfevident truth, the founder said,. We are trying to live up to that promise. As you all know, but luther ching said it was a promissory note to future generations. We are trying to get the. The honest question we are trying to get to is the payment, okay, which would be part of this. By many peoples estimation is that part of obtaining the ultimate goal. It is a question. It is a serious one. And i dont think that you should discourage, disparage the motives of anyone who is asking these piercing questions. We are going to come and we are picking are all part of the dialogue and i am grateful that it has largely been a civil discussion today. I appreciate your contributions. Let me go back to mr. Was. The 2018 interview, you noted that, you sit it was the black community that led our country, in terms of the growth of the middle class. Between 4050 of black americans became part of the middleclass. The black Community Also led the country in terms of the commitment a man to marriage at over 70 . I wonder if you could elaborate a little bit on what you attribute that to. Head, heart, home. We were a race that believed in god. Very committed to the christian faith. Because we did come our men believed in being the men of the households. To provide for the kids and the wife. And they took that commitment very seriously. They took pride in being producers. The idea of me being a beggar was not an option. When i felt dictate. Totally humbling. For a brief few months, i was a chimney sweep. I was learning to be a security guard. That was what we were taught. Do whatever it takes to provide for your family. It doesnt matter, be part of it. I am proud of it now. I dont want to go there again, but at the end of the day, that is what we are talking. We have now, dictate my race, the one that is feeling theyre entitled to somebody elses property. Without asking for something, reparation. Well get to funding. Its something we never experienced ourselves in our lives. We are not owed, because we have a chance of a single day to make a choice. I can choose a day to be more successful or less. And it has nothing to do with my ancestor, or my great grandfather. I am so proud that he showed me an example how to become, how to overcome obstacles. What we need, we need to get back the pride that we had in the 40s to the 60s of the race. Month competing against the white race. We were segregated. The money stayed within our community. And our leadership state in our community. We were trying to get out to somebody elses race to give them our business. We need to recognize that within is our future. Person believe this. Right now, we have over 60,000 of our youth that is incarcerated every single year. In this case, most of them, 80, 85 dont have fathers. We are able to get those kids back. Give them hope that this country will give them a great opportunity that they could go out of the businesses or build the future on. They will bring us back. Those kids, the one that we give hope again, will bring our country back from the abyss. Were going to get the right message first. Very well said. Mr. Hughes, i know there is a lot has been said here. I know you have thoughts on a lot of these topics. I just yield back to you for five minutes or. Pitch it to you. What would you like to add to the conversation . Eh. A lot has been said. I am not sure there is any one specific thing at this moment i want to respond to. Thats great. I respect that. Listen. We are probably out of time, or out of questions on the side. But again, on behalf of everybody here i think i speak for my colleagues, we appreciate your interest, your vomit, your patient today. Its been a long hearing. Weve had a thoughtful discussion. Thickets for the, important for the country to do this. Im grateful youre here. Ms. Escobar of texas is next. Five minutes. Thank you so much mr. Chairman. And i want to just say, how proud i am and fortunate i feel to be in the room with all of you. To be able to have this very important discussion, and to participate in this historic hearing. I also just want to quickly acknowledge and thank my sister, congresswoman, the congresswoman, the gentle lady from texas. Thank you, sheila. For your incredible work and your passion and the dignity and strength that you bring to this discussion. And add, my colleague from california, miss bass mentioned, this is a difficult conversation to have. But one that is so long overdue. Dr. Nebo, i so appreciate your economic perspective. And i want to ask you a couple of questions, rooted in that economic background that you have, that you can help the country understand the significance of why we have to have this conversation. So, first, i would like to ask you to respond to critics of this bill who claim that the u. S. Has already paid reparations to African Americans, through affirmative action. How would you respond to that . Sister congresswoman, for the question, let me say that affirmative action, the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action actually were white women. There is a Significant Research that shows that. Because white women were better poised to take advantage of the benefits that affirmative action provided, you have disadvantaged and discrimination. The African American community had disadvantage plus discrimination. White limits of discrimination. So, when you go back and look at the data, you will not find that africanamericans significantly benefited from a marv affirmative action began with a lot of talking a lot of action. So, when people talk about, we have already paid reparations. I have heard people talk about the fact that, you, white people died in the civil war. Fighting on the side of the north. The north was also a beneficiary of enslavement, quite frankly. And my sister here who has talked about her family, has looked at that a. So, the reparations have not been paid. And the fact is that we are not, again, some folks may want checks, but what we are really talking about is closing that wealth gap, and making people hold. Thank you. And to that point about the wealth gap, you have remarked and pointed out that the income gap was actually shrinking until government played a role. The income gap for formally enslaved individuals. The wealth gap. The wealth gap was shrinking until jim crow laws had racism intruded in the way that people were able to live the lives. So that people, the tommy moss story that i told a little bit of, the guy who opened a Grocery Store, goddaughters dad, opened a Grocery Store. He dared. He dared to compete with white people. Because he dared to compete with white people, he basically lost his life. Tulsa, oklahoma. When the governor of oklahoma actually appointed a commission to find out why the wall street massacre occurred, one of the newspapers came up with this conclusion. Too many in words and too much money. That was the conclusion of an official government commission. And black wall street was amazing. Dr. Olivia hooker who passed just last november, was the oldest living survivor. And she was a friend. And she said, we didnt have to leave the black community for anything. Except for banking. We had our own Grocery Stores. Department stores. Black doctors built a library that white folks wouldnt go to the library for black people. That kind of economic became a source of envy. Women in North Carolina, where over here wants to talk about ugly about democrats. People change their ideology. So, the democrats with the devil once upon a time. There was a group called the red shirts, which where the clan. They were democrats. However, the republicans took that over. They became the devil. And, im just saying. Forgive me, brother chapman. I know you said, im not supposed to say that. Forgive me. But in any case, people do change ideologies. So, all of this during a democrats. Democrats and republicans have been racist. But Carolina Republicans and black people came together to form a fusion government. And white folks were so frightened, that they took all the permanent black men in that town, arrested them. The next morning, gave them tickets to leave town. They had to leave the property, their livelihood, their families. Everything. This is why we need reparations. Whites, democrats, yes democrats were so threatened by the notion this fusion government, that they basically burned people out. They documented 60 deaths. Still you told me i couldnt talk. There was a thing called lymington on fire. I want everyone to watch this film. Wilmington on fire. Talks about what happened in wilmington in 1898, when they just basically burned black folks. 25 of the black people in wilmington left. Nearly 1 3 of the black businesses of wilmington went out of business. It was really about economic envy. So, absent this economic envy and fear, black folks, we didnt get the 40 acres and a meal. But we were still trying to do it. , then folks came in and said wait a minute. If we let them do their thing, where is our cheap labor going to come from . So, that is what happened. Thank you for the question. Thank you so much, chairman. I am out of time. Appreciate it very much. And last but far from least, is the sponsor of hr 40. The honorable Sheila Jackson lee for her five minutes plus. [ applause ] it is appropriate for me, mr. Chairman, to thank you so very much, and to dispel this audience from any suggestion and witnesses, that we are here on a temporary pass, doing temporary work that is going to be fleeting and never to be seen again. I want to thank chairman , who comes from the heart of memphis. And tennessee, who has walked in the life of a dual society. And i want to thank chairman nadler, who has indicated, as i did, supported hr 40 and the leadership of john conyers. I want to thank all of my colleagues on this panel for the diligence and outstanding questions. They are going to be in the forefront of educating, answering the questions, being a team. And i look forward to their work on this very powerful committee. The Judiciary Committee. What better place to have this hearing. And to those who are again trying to understand our process, you have to have a hearing. Then there is something called a markup. Then there is a vote from the committee. And then there is the opportunity to go to the floor of the house of representatives, onto the senate , which will be the other body, as we call it. And the challenge that i will accept that i hope that you will accept. And i, a signature by a president of the United States of america. Let this day, june 19, 2019, be the marker for the commitment for each and every one of you who have come to support, to say on my watch, we will watch this bill pass and be signed by the president of the United States of america. [ applause ] i want to acknowledge pastor allen patterson, who is from my hometown. And, he is, i know he would not mind me saying, the inheritor, a great Historic Church in historic texas. That was a settling place for freed slaves. Baptist church. I am delighted he is here. And i think you pick all the others, i think. Let me think the witnesses chairman is very kind and i will be diligent. Let me think the witnesses who are here, each and every one of them. Let me thank mr. Coates, mr. Glover, miss brown, misuse miss owens, the right reverend, reverend eugene taylor. Son. And as well, dr. Julianne. Professor derek miller. Let me get to my questions at this point. During the red summer of 1919, violence against African American communities erupted. Two years later in the tulsa 300 African Americans were killed. And the entire black community of greenwood in tulsa was destroyed. Another devastating racist attack took place in rosewood, florida in 1923. Black homes and businesses were systematically burned. At least eight people were killed. During, despite African American service in world war ii. I commend mr. Coleman, anna thing mr. Excuse me. Mr. Owens. Mr. Hughes, excuse me. Read the bill. What the bill says is that this is a study to consider a national apology, which has been done. And a proposal for reparations for the institution of slavery. The institution of slavery has never gone away. It exists. It is subsequent to and a factor. That is, that it is subject to the laws, and to the current atmosphere of what has generated today. Racial and economic discrimination against African Americans and the impact of these forces on living African Americans, that are, to make recommendations to the congress , on appropriate remedies and for other purposes. What is the congress have to do it . Because the congress is the lawmaking body of the federal government. And, it was the state and federal government that institutionalize laws that made slavery an act of the state. And it is not the courts. They will interpret. But we have to correct our error. That is why, in that historic moment, republicans and i guess some democrats, came together in the congress and supported the 13th amendment. Which then, democrats and republicans or whatever they were called at that time, throughout the states, then the states voted to accept that particular amendment. That is why the Congress Must do its job. I welcome the disparate opinions. But i would argue to the gentleman from columbia, that you are, i think, without the historical perspective, and the pain of being unopposed that youre very young age, to affirmative action and reparations. So, i would welcome a continuing debate. My door is open. For you. I welcome you being here as a witness. But i think it is important to take note of this. 1, my husband, not my husband. Excuse me. Love him, too. My father was as required jackson. He was a baby boy of a widow mother with three brothers that went to world war ii. The young man that graduated from high school for art. New york city. He, out of high school, went to the cartoon industry in new york. It was thriving. What an amazing thing for a young black boy. When the white man came back from world war ii, my husband my father was summarily fired. For them to take his place. I was not born in. But i can tell you, the life of that talented black man was never the same. Until some 40 years later, when he was able to use, his talent never lost. Able to be called back into that industry. Racism. It wasnt slavery. It wasnt eight teen, 1892. It was in the 40s that you are talking about. That my father, because of the color of their skin, his brilliant talent, the cartoonist artist that he was, was summarily fired. So, the question i have, dr. Melrose, while the white male class was being buoyed by the new deal. Period of my fathers electric africanamericans were consistently excluded from its benefits. For example, the 1935 Social Security act carved out jobs, largely filled by African American workers, such as foreman domestic labor, from its old age and unemployment insurance. Federal housing programs, also discriminated against African Americans by redlining black neighborhoods to recruit, to exclude them from receiving fha. The g. I. Bill was dedicated billions of dollars toward expanding opportunity for soldiers returning from war, also contributed to the widening gap between white and black america. Southern congressional leaders made certain that the programs were controlled by local white officials, resulting in black veterans being denied housing and business loans. Now, dr. I want to get to your seat mate there, mr. Miller. Suck i am going to your first pick i also want to get to mr. Coates on these issues. Think all the other witnesses. Could you comment on this impact, this continuing impact, when we didnt benefit from that. But for the hearing on for the questions. The continuing impact is, it shows up in the webcam pick in addition, the entirety of the ways that we redlined black communities through the federal Housing Administration. Redlined community so that people could not get housing loans. Even when they qualified for them. This was government policy. This is why Congress Must do this. Congress is the devil and the congress has to do the right thing. It is quite simple. I am so happy that you mentioned the g. I. Bill for a couple of reasons. Number 1, as you said, the state of dohertys decided who got benefits. In the state of mississippi, fewer than 1000, the number 6 or seven let me just roundup. 1000 black men were able to go to college on the g. I. Bill and mississippi. Because, when they went to get the g. I. Benefits, the g. I. Board said, you could go to barber school. You could go to trade school. But these were brothers who were qualified to go to college. Shouldve had that opportunity. Would have had generational differences in the way they lived, had they done that. So, congress has indifferently, essentially, five line, sidelined black people from the opportunities that they created for white people. It is plain and simple. Sidelined us from this opportunities. And that is why it is time now to talk about how to fix that. My brother who has done the work on tulsa, can talk so much more about that. But let us simply say, the commission that is created must go through line by line and look at all, and detail it. I dont like to think, like i said, i am not kumbaya. But i dont think white people are evil. By people. Why people do not know what the history is. And i command you all to look at the history on the work that you have done in the past, to then challenge you to do the right thing. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Coates, may i just may i bring you to the 21st century . In a recent article in the New York Times that basically says, thank you. This is kansas city. Downtown is booming. But in the shadows of the citys thriving business and Entertainment District are languishing east side neighborhood, parked with boarded a home, overgrown trash in law, lots. The show storefronts almost nonexistent in residence of the tonya bowman forgotten. I love downtown and i would love to see you grow, too. You have got to be real, says miss bowman, who lives in the predominantly black east side. It is like neglect. We get the leftovers. Leftovers. Can you just bring that all together for us and what you have ascertained about the commission, racism and where we are today . Sure. I think the consistent point from the comments that, the article you just read from, goes all the way back to the period of enslavement in this country. Is the idea of theft. Enslavement is theft. More than 50 years, black people had the fruits of their labor stolen from them. We are all often think about jim crow and the era of segregation. Its not too. If i agree to pay taxes, if i agree to fealty to a government, and you give me a different level of resources out of that tax pool, if youre giving me a different level of protection, you have effectively stolen from a. If you deny my ability to vote and to participate in the political process. To decide how those resources are used, you have effectively stolen from me. So, it makes a kind of sense, that after a period that begins in 1619 of theft, ending conservatively, conservatively in 1968. Think i would get an argument on that. Conservatively in 1968, if you steal from a group of people over that long a period of time, you will have a wealth gap that dr. Malvo it is very important to bring that into the conversation. Because this was not a passive discrimination. This was appropriating resources from one group and giving them to the others through the auspices of the state. Thank you mr. Chairman. I am very grateful for you to yell back. To feel the power in this room, i would ask my colleague, mr. Johnson, let us Work Together. Lets get this done. It is long overdue. It is deserving and it is the right thing to do. Mr. Chairman, i yelled back. Thank you mostly. I want to thank all of our witnesses. This concludes todays hearing and i want to thank our witnesses. This is been a great panel. This is what magnified times 10, 20, 50 of a study would be like. Because this panel would be hurt and hurt and hurt and people would get the story of what is happened in america. And different perspectives on how to deal with a pickle without objection, all members from submit additional written questions for the witnesses or additional material for the record. I want to thank our Ranking Member and all of my members. Attendance was excellent everyone was here. Very attentive. And with that, the hearing is adjourned. On thursday, u. S. Border patrol chief, carlo most will discuss the defense departments deployment to military personnel to the u. S. Mexico border. She will be speaking before house homeland subcommittee. Live coverage begins at 10 am eastern on cspan 3. The reviews are in for c spans the president spoke. A recently topped the New York Times doing it with the column. Kirkus reviews call it a milepost in the evolving and everchanging reputation of our president. And for the new york journal books, the president s make a fast, engrossing rate. Read about how noted president ial historians ranked the best and worst chief executive. From George Washington to barack obama. Explore the life events that shaped our leaders. Challenges they face. And, the legacies they have left behind. Cspan the president is now available as a hardcover or e book today. At cspan. Org the president. Or wherever books are sold. This weekend, wrote to the White House Events from south carolina, on friday. House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn holds a fish fry in columbia. Several democratic president ial candidates plan to attend. We will have live coverage of that beginning at 9 pm eastern on cspan. Saturday, a forum hosted by planned Parenthood Action Fund in south carolina. We are expecting from 16 president ial candidates. Talking about access to abortion and womens reproductive healthcare. That event guns gets underway live at 11 pm eastern on c span. And and sunday, democratic president ial candidate, Bernie Sanders as a in rock hill, south carolina. Will be speaking with voters and supporters beginning live at 3 pm eastern. And you can watch that on c span. Sunday night on afterwards, in her latest book, the target or, former cia intelligence analyst, nader bakos, offers her insight into the inner workings of the agency under work in tracking terrorists. She is interviewed by House Intelligence Committee member, congressman on the carson of indiana. Most people know who Osama Bin Laden is. There was another figure that you had a connection to with your service. So carly. Tell us about your experience tracking him and those around. So, i was charged initially as an analyst i was charged with looking at and evaluating whether or not iraq had anything to do with 9 11 and al qaeda. As an analyst, we had been writing products for policymakers and briefing them. Bottom line was that iraq had nothing to do with 9 11 and al qaeda. There was not the connection there. After that, after the invasion, i became a charting officer. Kelly had rode rose to prominence because he had been attacking targets inside of a rock. And that eventually, joint al qaeda. And created al qaeda in iraq. I was to dismantle his network and his organization and his leadership. Watch afterwards saturday night at 9 00 eastern on book tv at cspan two. Coming up next, a discussion on Cancer Research and treatment. We hear from lawmakers, healthcare professionals, advocates and patients, as well as acting fda commissioner, dr