least was inspiring to the christmas day bomber -- sorry, to the times square bomber and had also had ties with the christmas day plane hijacker? >> well, there's no doubt about the fact that symbolically bin laden is still in a class by himself. but i do think you make an important point. over the years we have eliminated or incapacited the operational leaders, and now, of course, we see replacement leaders coming up. taking out that level of leadership is a critical part of the strategy because they are the most experienced planners, they are the people who have the ability to put together the schemes and train and launch the attacks. so while we'd all like to get bin laden,he fact is getting these operational leaders is a critical part of success. >> and al awlaki is on the internet. i mean, he's e-mailing people back and forth. why is this so difficult? he's on a list, apparently, that we want to go get him and yet