and this take taking a knee has at least put a spotlight on the issue. >> listen, if you listen to the town hall before this, the conversations and peoples' opinion, the way they feel about it, much more nuanced than the president. even the nfl and the players have nuanced perspectives. the president is very one-sided. it's this way, my way or the highway and if you don't see it this way, then you're wrong. how does the president's base react when they hear these words? >> i think in their day to day conversation, their views are nuanced like everyone else's is. what april has said is really interesting that the protests has shined a spotlight on this issue. i worry that it hasn't shown nearly the spotlight like it should because of the culture wars like we just saw in that town hall are not happening enough in our media institutions and our political institutions. i think that folks recognize back home, friends and family,