his former deputy is going to testify, he's going to trash manafort. the jurors came out rick gates we didn't pay attention to him. it was the documentation that got manafort. that's part of the story here. it's not cohen. cohen is not credible, it's the stuff behind the story that says maybe he's right. >> and just to reiterate it, suborning perjury is a crime and it is also impeachable, david, and i'm saying that not just out of thin air, it's impeachable because it has been used for impeachment before. it was one of the articles of impeachment for nixon. it was one of the articles of impeachment for bill clinton. this is serious for the president and rudy giuliani's statement overnight, if you believe cohen i can get you a great deal on the brooklyn bridge, it's pippy but it's not a denial of the facts in the story. >> it goes to the point phil was just talking about, they'd be happy to attack michael cohen as a guy you can't believe and you're going to hear that when he testifies on capitol hill. but this is why we have the old adage of it's not the crime it's
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