so the answer for the poor is we need to get the cost down. i was a doctor on the mexican border for 20 years. to care for everybody. people coming across the border their legal, illegal. let me tell you, before government got involved, the fruit pickers, but stock pickers had come across the border paid cash for their health care and afford it. their wages or enough to afford every day of care. now is not. the first answer is to get the cost down by deregulating things because the regulations. john: you say people were dying. >> we agree on part of the diagnosis. we agree that the cost, the unit cost per visit, per cats can, protest, preparation is to my. john: it's too bad. >> but the costs are much higher in the united states that there are other countries. all these other countries that have the universal health insurance, the system has lower-cost, lower overhead, free market works for many things.