lying to them. >> well, listen, you know one of the things that campaigns do is give people titles that makes them feel empowered. he had a title. he was a volunteer on the campaign. that doesn't mean he was embedded in the campaign. if anything, it proves there was no collusion because, according to his testimony, the russians came to him and said they already had the emails. the trump team couldn't have gotten with the russians to find emails if the russians already had them. steve: sure. the whole thing about the trump team and the involvement is aside from the fact that mr. man ford and mr. gates were part of the trump teen all that stuff happened a long time ago. >> right. listen, they are probably reaching back to build some pressure. manafort was a cubous character to begin with he knew rnc rules and was able to make sure that nobody could steal the nomination from trump, but he had all sorts of problems with russians and other despots overseas. i mean, he was a shady figure to begin with and it's caught up to him. that has nothing to do with the president.