that doesn't work between them. it doesn't. >> mika, listening to you speak -- >> what? >> -- one imagines that maybe you had experience growing up around strong, powerful men in washington, d.c., with egos. >> yes, perhaps. many, actually. like insufferable. >> with accents. >> it's all men. they don't know how to do it. they have to -- there's an art to it. >> i think joe's line -- >> i know, we're going to read that in "must-reads." >> the victory will cost more than it's worth, and you'll get to it, i think that's what both sides, particularly the president's got to be mindful of because you don't want to expend too much and hurt yourself as you try to do some of these other things moving forward. >> it's going to be very hard for the president -- very hard -- after winning such, i think, a great victory. i mean, this is a man who, for four years, was told that he was an illegitimate president, that he was a socialist -- >> that he was not a citizen. >> that he was a marxist, that he wasn't even an american, that