permanent, physical damage. detainee died in u.s. custody. another detainee lost an eye. detainees so physically and mentally broken that they're no longer functioning people, as you would know it. so i think, again, the idea of, you know we can't know -- i think the reason you can't know is because, as the senate report showed, they didn't try, they went immediately to the most abusive aggressive tactics possible and didn't stop. and so the reason that you can't know is because there was no effort made in many instances to even try to obtain information in another way. and i think that's an important thing. and i think, again, if you polled americans and showed them this is what it is, this is what it looks like, these are descriptions of exact tactics and these are the faces of the people who did it i think polling numbers would look very different. >> quick question, we don't have pictures here. do you think the numbers will change after in is there i don't know. i actually think that the