>> i don't know it's more lethal than stormy daniels. it was probably more lethal to his family relationships potentially and, you know, on the terms of the timing of it. >> right. >> in terms of the fact, you're right, it was a real relationship, it was long-term, long-term for trump in terms of relationships assuming all of it is true. you know, so from that vantage point, you know, somebody who is emotionally wounded is more likely to say very damaging things at press. >> howard, the president is accused of being a liar by his long-time personal lawyer. is the country surprised? >> no. >> does this -- what is -- we know what fall out would be in another era. i think we're all trying to figure out, is this guy immune to this? no other president could survive this. >> the laws of physics don't apply to politics. a pendulum starts swinging in real life, it slows down. but in politics sometimes, and