Transcripts For MSNBCW Deadline 20240703

Week . Its not. Its only wednesday. Its 4 00 in new york. We have had two days of testimony in the first criminal trial of an american expresident. We have learned so much. We have heard extraordinary details of a conspiracy to interfere in a president ial election. The prosecutions first witness, former National Enquirer ceo david pecker painted a vivid picture of that explicit agreement between himself and the expresident , one of mutual benefit. Negative stories about donald trump are bought and buried and negative stories about trumps rivals were embellished or in some instances fabricated. Stories of women having affairs with trump were hidden. Fake stories with hillary clinton, ted cruz, marco rubio were written up and published. Photos were doctored, like this one, amounting to a phenomenon Andrew Weissmann referred to as ground zero of fake news. David pecker comes back for more tomorrow. Court is quiet today. It resumes today. He takes the stand tomorrow. Likely picking back up where yesterday ended on the role the National Enquirer played in silencing the story of donald trump and Karen Mcdougal. She had a 10month affair with donald trump in 2008. Mcdougal was paid 150,000 by the National Enquirer to keep her story silent ahead of the 2016 president ial election. Mcdougal is among the other potential witnesses that the prosecution could call. We could soon hear her firsthand account about their alleged relationship from the stand, which would set up quite a moment in that manhattan courtroom where trump would have to watch her tell her story. As this is a criminal trial, the expresident is required to be present for all of it. The fact he keeps complaining about. He cant be doing trumpy stuff. He says he would rather be on the campaign trail. Just yesterday, there was a rather stark split screen of the two 2024 president ial candidates. One faces the consequences of his potential criminality in a gloomy courtroom. The other out campaigning on the issue of womens reproductive rights and freedoms. A split screen we will be sure to see more of as the trial continues. Of course, the importance of this moment and this criminal trial is so much more significant than the contrast between any two images. Its about whether we can still get to the truth. Its about the rule of law in this country applying to everyone. Or not. Its about consequences for those who break the law. Its a fate donald trump has avoided for many years now. Its where we start today with some of our most favorite reporters. With us at the table, kate kristenbach. Shes been in the courtroom most of the trial so far. We havent seen her since it started. Former top official at the Department Of Justice and msnbc legal analyst Andrew Weissmann. Former rnc chairman, Michael Steele is here for the hour. Let me ask you you were here during Jury Selection. Before any of the juicy testimony had started. I have to say, theres something so extraordinary i get notes from our folks who are inside. I then read the transcripts. Im still, with a pen, the third go through going, my god. I have omg written all over. Its gobsmacking. Its captivating. The attorneys on both sides had the opportunity to really start diving into concepts that were going to happen in the case. Its just built on that. Then we had Opening Statements on monday. Then with the testimony going into the testimony of david pecker. My fellow reporters its every line is something we have heard, have past reported on. Its fascinating. Its going to continue, certainly, over the next six weeks. What is the sense of what you are hearing in term i think you and other reporters have said there will be things we have never heard before. Certainly, peckers Immunity Deal with the Southern District of new york means we havent heard him in his own words before. Doesnt mean the Justice Department didnt know what he knew. But we hadnt heard it. He testified to a criminal Election Interference scheme that by every measure violates any reasonable read of election laws. What is the reaction to what is now coming in quickly . I certainly think the reporting the core reporters are riveted by what pecker is saying. The jury this is a marathon for them. They certainly came in, Jury Selection happened quickly. I think they are just in the process of absorbing. I think the last few days they were certainly interest and captivated, but probably overwhelmed in their own sense. Is there a sense that the prosecution had this strategy of bringing on someone who still likes trump and who trump still likes . It feels like the moments where its going to be very combative potentially may or may not be with mr. Pecker. I think thats right on. I think pecker certainly comes off he introduced this whole scheme. Thats giving us an introduction to what the juries are about to hear for the next six weeks. It is also someone that i think has a favorable view of trump and has been a longtime friend of trump. Its going to be interesting to see how trumps attorneys choose to cross him when they do, whether that be tomorrow or friday. Sometime later this week. He is also coming off in a way thats quite grandfatherly. I think its going to be interesting to see what they choose to approach him on, on cross examination. Michael steele, i just kept thinking that this is a man who im not there to absorb the grandfatherly touches. He was the most eligible bachelor. He was never that. He was married. Three times but still almost always married. Its going to be awkward to try to discredit him without also discrediting all of the lovely things he said about donald trump. Yeah. Its one of those dynamics when you are looking at this situation where the combination of the trial and all thats coming out of that and then the drama thats outside of the courtroom with political players who are now having to reconcile a lot of things they have said about trump, a lot of things that they have pushed out there about trump. All of thats going to come crashing into this moment. Pecker, for example, is setting up this conversation in a way in which you are going to see and get exposed to what a lot of us know is the real donald trump. How he operates. All of the things that he said how he has manipulated situations and people. There are a lot of people out there who are going to realize how much of a sucker they have been and how much of a sucker they continue to be as they try to justify politically, for example, going into the rest of this cycle, support for a man who is sitting in a courtroom who is now being exposed for the fraud that he is. Certainly for a lot of the Christian Republican type voters out there who see this man as moses, guess what . Moses staff is broken. He cant lead you where you think you need to go. Theres a lot i think in this trial thats sort of an understatement of whats going to be playing out for a lot of people in a lot of rooms and a lot of places in washington and around the country. Michael steele, theres something that for me, as a nonlawyer, feels silly for me to say. But i have the feeling just in consuming the information that the story were familiar with, the narrator we have come to know, for a variety of legal and political reasons, is Michael Cohen. What appears to have happened is the reverse engineering, at least of the narration of the the story. He goes down 22 times to meet with braggs team. He talks to the press. He Just Announced that out of respect for the process, he will no longer be speaking. We wont be hearing much more from him. We knew there was a frequency, a really robust pace of his interactions with prosecutors. It appears again, we have only taken in peckers testimony, it appears Reversion Narration has gone on. I wonder if you get to the point where you dont need cohen, or he would have to contradict peck pecker who said he was the most eligible bachelor. He was so stylish. He was such he is basically he said everything donald trump wanted every republican to say about him, he has said it on the stand. You have mcdougal who said she was in love with trump. There will be people who have testified to the same fact patterns. Yeah. Thats raises an interesting point. Michael cohen pecker is the scene setter and gives the machinations. All of the drama, all of the flowery things he is saying about trump, how they set it up and pushed out is one thing. What cohen does is deconstructs a lot of that. This was a bare bones transaction. This was trying to figure out a workaround. How do we avoid having this publically exposed . What do we need to do . I think a lot of that practical aspect of what happened here really strips bare a lot of the other stuff that whether the porn the playboy model was in love with him or not, or what pecker said to prop him up and push him out there, all of that seems folly in my view. I think cohen has a chance to make this thing real in a way against that back pattern, the facts and what happened that pecker is laying out, how this scheme came together that gives it a Certain Energy that the prosecutors know, yeah, this is how we lock it down, this is how we focus everybodys attention on what really happened here. I do like to pull back the curtain and share with our audience what covering trump has done to us. You said porn model and corrected yourself. Its a porn star and playboy model. I come on the air trying not to make trump pecker jokes. Trump is making us dumber. I wonder if voters will feel that, too. I think some have felt it for a while. Look, no one wants to be to realize they have been played a sucker. No one likes that feeling. Particularly when you had countless numbers of family, friends, neighbors, coworkers and others telling you, you know you are getting played, right . Theres this sort of reckoning that folks have to come to. Donald trumps m. O. Is counting on that not occurring. Counting on feeding that beast as much as he can with more nonsense, more noise, more things that get you anxious, make you angry so you forget to think about the fact that, what am i so angry about . Yeah, inflation is no nglonger 10 , its 3 . Why am i pissed . Theres that p. T. Barnum aspect of this. Come inside and let me tell you a story. You get suckered in. Then when you walk out, you would have to walk back into the real world. For a lot of people walking back into that real world can be a little bit jarring, because you realize you just got played on so many levels and so many ways. This man doesnt really care about you. He is not really prolife. He is not really a good christian. He is not a smart or capable businessman. He is what everyone has said he is. He is the fraud, the fake, the fake the guy who labeled the media fake news, first engaged in creating fake news. This is where it all comes home and roosts. Thats part of what people said, this is the not the most important trial. It may not be from a fact pattern or legal standpoint. But it is from a cultural political standpoint important because it exposes the man for what he is. Exactly. I think, Andrew Weissmann, these are the facts trump is most desperate to keep from his voters. Im not positive why. I think it is because he inoculated himself by january 6 by lifting up the insurrectionists. I think he has a cover story in the president ial records act for taking classified documents. These are not facts he wants out there. Absolutely. I wanted to build on stuff you were talking about. I sort of view pecker as not a table setter. I view him as something that may resonate with the two lawyers on the jury. These are the principals, decker and trump. When Michael Cohen testifies, he is sort of im a lawyer. He is carrying out what the clients want. He is a staffer. The executive branch terms, he is not a principal. He is the person carrying out what the principals want. There was an agreement with pecker and trump. The lawyer is just figuring out how do it. How do you get accomplished what the principal wants . We have had those positions. You are a staffer to the principal. This is more than table setting. This is really the Heart And Soul and the beginning of the agreement. He takes you right there. By the end, he is going to have in 2017 the end of the story. I also think they played from the january 6 committee in that this trial will have lots of people from inside the tent. This is a person who is, as you are saying all these good things about him because he is inside. He is so hard to cross for that reason, not just because he said good things, but this is somebody who was there with him. Theres no really good way to cross him other than to say, what you didnt know. You didnt see certain things. You didnt know certain things. A hard cross on him could completely backfire. The final piece is, the transactional amoral tone that you dont have somebody taking the stand saying, i am so sorry. I violated what it means to be a journalist. I engaged in election fraud. I understand that i defamed people intentionally. Im supposed to be in the news business. Maybe low rent news business, but defamation, not a good thing. That persona is what the government will turn to and say, you know who else is transactional like that, the defendant. I want to dive into whats coming tomorrow morning. Thats Karen Mcdougal. Let me show you some of Karen Mcdougal in her own words about how in her experience and her view, how connected she was to donald trump. As you enter a relationship, you start to think about where this is going to go and how you feel. How did you view it . How did you view the relationship . You know, going through it, when i look back where i was back then, i know its wrong. I really sorry for that. I know its the wrong thing to do. But back in those days sorry. Its okay. Back there that day, i was a different girl. I had fun. I was in the playboy scene. I was just enjoying life as much as i could. When i got with him, there was a real relationship there. There were real feelings between the two of us, not just myself, not just him. There was a real relationship there. I kind of, out of sight, out of mind, with everything else. I did have a lot of guilt but i still continued. You believe that he had real feelings for you . Of course he did. I know he did. He would say that . He did. Were you in love with him . I was, yeah. Do you think he was in love with you . He was, yeah. I dont have words. What would that be like on the stand . What is so great for the state in putting that testimony on is she is an exhibit more than a witness. The state is going to say, what you heard from her, all of the evidence, whether its coming directly from her, its coming from david pecker, this is what they did not want the lectorate to hear. You have in front of you exactly what they did not want to come out right after ucar Access Hollywood. It brings to life the nature of the scheme, what it is that would have been said and why they didnt want the risk. Its clearcut Election Interference . Thats the the state has argued take the state law. Corporations cannot give money. Theres also limits on the amount of money. Just take ami, the National Enquirer, they paid cash this isnt in kind. They did inkind services also. You dont have to get to inkind payments. They paid unreimbursed cash to Karen Mcdougal in order as david pecker said, for Campaign Purposes. Thats a violation. Thats one that the judge has said is a violation. If theres a conviction, donald trump would be able to appeal that and get a court to say whether thats the correct interpretation of the law. That is why his testimony is not a precursor to other this is core to why its a felony is this inkind and Cash Payments that are being made for Campaign Purposes to donald trump. He had immunity. Obviously, when there was a change of administration, Merrick Garland would have access to what he did. Not even an inkind a classic Campaign Finance violation. I can do better than that. Leave aside remember, jack smith was brought in to do january 6. The real question is, where was the Department Of Justice . We understand why Nothing Happened under bill barr. Sure. From the time that you have Merrick Garland until jack smith, there was no Forward Movement on the case. Thats just a big empty question. There is a ramification to the states case because of that. Some of the charges a lot of people say, why didnt they charge misdemeanors and felonies . They cant charge misdemeanors anymore. The time lapsed. You have to bring it within a certain time period. The delay has all sorts of ramifications. We have seen it on the federal side in connection with the january 6 case and this race against the clock. We see it here. We are where we are. Theresl unanswered questions. Still to come, more on Karen Mcdougal. What that line of questioning could be like. Its not just the multiple criminal indictments getting in the way of donald trump. Why the political math in all important states like pennsylvania are a vexing problem for candidate trump. We will look ahead to tomorrows big date at the Supreme Court. Will there be accountability at the top for what happened at the United States capitol on january 6 . The issue of abortion back at the doorstep of the Supreme Court. What we heard from the justices today, what they are telling us about the fate of Emergency Room health care in some of the most conservative states in the country. It could be more daunting news for Women In America. You need tmobile. Home internet with 5g. Wait tmobile has Home Internet . What a feeling to have tmobile now youve got xfinity wifi at home. Take it on the go with Xfinity Mobile. Customers now get exclusive access to wifi speed up to a gig in millions of locations. Plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free. Thats like getting two unlimited lines for Twenty Dollars a month each for a year. So, ditch the other guys and switch today. Buy one line of unlimited, get one free for a year with Xfinity Mobile plus, save even more and get an eligible 5g phone on us visit xfinitymobile. Com today. I used to leak urine when i coughed, laughed or exercised. I couldnt even enjoy playing with my kids. I leaked too. I just assumed it was normal. Then we learned about bulkamid an fdaapproved, nondrug solution for our condition. It really works, and it lasts for years. Its been the best thing weve done for our families. Visit findrealrelief. Com to find an Expert Physician near you. Ask if bulkamid is right for you and discuss potential risks. Results and experiences may vary. Move beyond the leaks. When you say you would arrange to go someplace, how would it be arranged . I would pay for the flight. I would book it myself. I would book the hotel room if i wasnt staying with him. Usually, i stayed with him. There were a couple times where i didnt. He would reimburse me. If the flight was, i dont know, 500, he would give me 500 and say, take care of the flight and things like that. Why would he have you book all the travel and the hotel room . Theres no paper trail. Did you realize that at the time . Yes, i did. Because he was concerned about it being revealed at some point and there being a paper trail . I was told, theres no paper trail. I cant say what his reasons were. I would assume thats the case, yes. This is the other half. She believed that she was in love with him and she believed that he was in love with her and that she knew from the beginning that she had to lay out her own money because there could be no paper trail. Clear evidence that he wanted it kept hidden. Shes not sure why. But clearly, keep it secret was the point. I think we even heard that from david pecker, that he testified that he acknowledged being part of this catch and kill scheme but said that he didnt want this to even become public within the organization, that this was really a scheme that was concocted in 2015 at trump tower between trump, Michael Cohen and pecker. From there on, its no surprise that Karen Mcdougal would potentially come up as something kept she thought was supposed to be kept secret. Tomorrow when david pecker is back on the stand, what do we expect to learn from him . We only scratched the surface of the Karen Mcdougal catch and kill scheme. We talked about how initially it came to pass. We havent even gone into any of the detail, any of the money changing hands. Thats certainly where the testimony will pivot. We just learned of the broad brushes of this part of the scheme. Certainly, after mcdougal, we expect then we get into Stormy Daniels and really it seems like almost that was the prosecutors intention to end with mcdougal, leave them with that in mind, both on our day off and going into thursday and certainly from there we will go into the broader scheme with stormy. You said something about pacing. What is your sense of how long the prosecution will have pecker on the stand . I think its likely we go most of the day tomorrow with the continuation of the direct examination. I think its likely we get to cross. Its possible that this plus then going back it goes through the end of the week. Its possible that we still have david pecker for the rest of the week. Michael steele, the Social Media Platforms might break. Im just i hate myself for thinking about what he is going to think and do. But i cant help but thinking about what he is going to think and do. Yeah. He is going to lose his mind with this portion of the examination into his actions. Pecker laying this narrative out very precisely, very concisely. We have already seen in stuff that just leading up to this, where he is he is like a caged animal. You can almost sense the pacing back and forth, trying to figure out what he can say, how he can say it. He has been a little boxed in by the gag order and whatever his counsel has been telling him. But i think that i think where this is where some of the lid comes off of that. That steam is going to get released. I would not be surprised at certain portions of the testimony where he is audibly expressing his anger and frustration in the courtroom as he did just during the voir dire with the jurors. They were just being asked, what do you think of trump. They werent getting into any juicy stuff. Now we are getting to the juicy parts. Yeah, he is probably going to lose his mind. I think thats something thats going to be very telling for the jury. More importantly, for the country, for all of those folks out here who are sitting back thinking this man is being railroaded. This didnt begin under joe biden. This began under his administration. The people who are testifying are not antifa and left wing democrats. They are republicans who served in his administration. They are republicans who fawned over him and cared for his every need, who are now realizing, donald trump is not going to save my hide from the institutions of justice, id better save myself and tell people what i know when i was in the room. Thats what you are going to see, i think, with a lot of these conversations coming up, this testimony. Andrew, this is it could be a partial list. Michael cohen, Stormy Daniels, Karen Mcdougal, keith davidson, hope hicks, theres a Documents Expert and a paralegal from the d. A. s office. What do you think in terms of i know you are not inside the case thats being presented at a strategic level. You know more than anyone else we could ask. What are they thinking about what they have to work with . Let me tell about you the Documents Expert and the paralegal. That is one where mary and i talked about this. We listened to the opening. You are looking at what are witnesses going to say. You hope the witnesses do well on the stand. Some will have a lot of baggage like Michael Cohen. You look for, what are the tent poles of hard evidence . That paralegal is going to take the stand and talk about phone records. Thats been alluded to about certain key times. You build a time line of when things happened. It can be so devastating, both in terms of just what happened when, because you those records dont lie. You can really place certain things in chronological order. You can obviously show that somebodys implicated. If you notice at the outset of david peckers testimony, he was asked about his telephone numbers. They want to link up to the records they have. On october 26, just before the election, the prosecutor referenced in his opening two Telephone Calls between Michael Cohen and donald trump. Right after that, Michael Cohen creates essential consulting, the vehicle used to pay Stormy Daniels. There will be a lot of pieces like that. Then there are witnesses like hope hicks, where you think we think we know the whole story. That is somebody, like david pecker, we had a sense, with hope hicks, she really can shore up things. One thing thats interesting is, you know what knows about this . Not just the d. A. , the Southern District of new york, you know who knows about this . Donald trump. They have all the testimony. They have everything that shes going to say they know. They have a good sense of whats coming. Thats where they will be thinking about, when do you use those key pieces . What do you need to shore up when . You cant fathom him attacking her. Shes never broken with him publically. He had other women dye think hair to look like her. Its fascinating the nonattack of david pecker and hope hicks. Theres various schools of thought. One is, theres more they know. You poke the bear, it could get worse. Amazing. Thank you for coming back. I know you are busy. Wednesday felt like a good day to get you here. Andrew, we are not done with you. We will see you later. Michael sticks around for the hour. Candidate donald trump won the Pennsylvania Republican primary yesterday. Thats not the whole story. There are red Warning Flashing signs flashing for him everywhere there. Even after his last rival has been out of the race for months now. We will bring you that story next. Slowing my cancer from growing and living longer are two things i want from my Metastatic Breast Cancer treatment. And with kisqali, i can have both. Kisqali is a pill that when taken with an Aromatase Inhibitor helps delay cancer from growing and has been proven to help people live significantly longer across three separate clinical trials. So, i have the confidence to live my life. Kisqali can cause Lung Problems or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to death. It can cause serious skin reactions, liver problems, and low white blood cell counts that may result in severe infections. Avoid grapefruit during treatment. 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The latest example comes from the key mustwin battleground state of pennsylvania. Yesterdays president ial primary there delivered some eyepopping numbers, sure to set off alarm bells inside of the highest levels of the trump campaign. At least 156,000 pennsylvania voters told donald trump, no thank you. They voted for nikki haley yesterday, a candidate who suspended her campaign seven weeks ago. Did we mention this happened yesterday . The state was decided by just over 80,000 votes in the election in 2020. What makes the result even more glaring and problematic for trump is this wasnt one of the states where independents and democrats could cross over to vote for nikki haley. The Pennsylvania Republican primary is a closed primary. The electorate, the people who chose nikki haley in those numbers, those were all registered republicans in pennsylvania. Joining our conversation, from the departmentof homeland security, we are glad shes back, Elizabeth Newman is here. Shes the author of kingdom of rage, the rise of christian extremism and the path back to peace which we will talk about in a second. Michael steele is with us as well. These are not good numbers for trump. Can you see the smile on my face . I see it. They are not good numbers. I was pleasantly surprised. Think about how intense you have to be to go vote for somebody thats to longer in convention. Its decided. He will be the nominee. Its a protest. Yeah. I want to hear i want the Republican Party to hear my voice. I am done with trump. I think the question is, does that mean they vote for biden or do they sit it out in november . Michael steele, what did you make of the numbers . Obviously, the closed primary aspect of it makes it a more troubling Political Development for the trump team. Yeah, i think thats an important aspect of it. You do need to distinguish it from what we saw in New Hampshire, for example, where it was an open primary. A lot of democrats and interests independents voted in that which changed the numbers. Here you talking about a closed primary, all republicans that are only allowed to vote. It sends a shot across the bow. The appropriate question is, what does it mean . Who are these voters . Are these the voters who sort of braved the point, i dont want to have something go sideways, so i want to put my voice in the mix . Do i want to show how mad i am at trump . How does that translate come november . Do those voters then come back to the polls in november or do they sit out . My thinking is from my experience, and probably from yours as well, is a voter who gets in their car and drives to a Polling Place to cast a vote for someone who is not is no longer on the ballot, can no longer be the nominee, is not going to stay home on election day. Theyre not going to sit it out. They will go to the polls. Again, i keep saying this to the democrats and the biden team, those are your voters. Your coalition right now is fractured. Right . You have got to look at, a, how you tighten up the coalition amongst your own folks, but then b, which is actually probably a, the number one thing you need to do is get those voters who are making these very public statements about their intent, right . This is an intentional act and vote that says come november, im up for grabs. This is an important opportunity, i think, to really solidify the conversation with those voters, to reach out to them directly in a personal way and say, i need you. I heard you. I saw what you did in pennsylvania. You are going to see it here in maryland. You will see it in other primary states coming down the pike where nikki haley is going to secure a lot of disaffected, pissed off republican voters. The question then becomes, what do you do with them . You dont want them nor do you let them stay at home. You get them out to vote for joe biden. For the biden campaign, my thoughts about what they would say to your various commentary, its a and a. You need both to win. Up next, michael and i will dig into the new book on the rise of domestic extremism in this country. Dont go anywhere. Where. With Schwab Investing themes™, its easy to invest in ideas you believe in. Spot a trend in electric vehicles . Have a passion for Online Gaming . Or want to explore the Space Economy . Choose from over 40 themes, each with up to 25 stocks identified by our unique algorithm. Buy it asis or customize to align with your goals. All at your fingertips. Schwab investing themes. 40 customizable themes. Up to 25 stocks in just a few clicks. One in five Children Worldwide are faced with the reality of living without food, no family dinners, no special treats, not enough energy to play. All Around The World, hunger is affecting childrens physical and Mental Health. Toddlers are suffering from acute malnutrition, which stunts their growth. 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That means more food, water, medicine and help for kids Around The World. Youll also receive a free tote bag to share your support for children in need. Having your childhood eaten away by hunger is unimaginable. Get fed up. Call us now or visit getfedupnow. Org, today. Our biggest challenge . Uncertainty. Hidden fees, surcharges. Who knows what to expect turn shipping to your advantage. Keep it simple. With clear, upfront pricing. With usps ground advantage®. We are back with an old friend, Elizabeth Newman. She began her Counterterrorism Career immediately after 9 11. Shes out with a new book. Its about the toxic mix of modern evangelicalism and right wing conservatism and violent extremists. Its no longer about islamic extremism. Our Security Capabilities inside the United States are weak. Congratulations on the book. Explain how few tools there are for combating domestic violent extremism compared to foreign terrorism. We have a ton of tools in the foreign terrorism tool kit from our intelligence to military which we would not deploy on our own citizens. Those allow us to collect information on potentially harmful people that we cant collect here in the United States. One of the biggest things is we can designate terrorist organizations. When we designate i. S. I. S. Or al qaeda, we can say, any american or anybody overseas thats providing Material Support, which is very low bar in the law, we can charge you with a crime. You cant do that in the domestic terrorism space. Could you have two people doing the same act, one for i. S. I. S. , one for a Neonazi Group in the United States, and that act for i. S. I. S. Could be prosecuted and the Material Support for neonazi. The mission was to stay left of them. Sometimes it was a feeling was that it was a matter of seconds, a plot was ununaej earthed. If you cant label the threat, how do you prevent it . Thats what we ran into when i went back how do you prevent it . Thats what we ran into it. In the government in 2017, 2018, we were starting to see this spike. It had started in 2015. Its been going on for almost ten years now. And that increase is predominantly coming from violent extremists on the far right, domestic in nature, and the Law Enforcement was struggling. They were getting tips and leads, knocking on doors, asking questions, but there wasnt enough evidence for them to use their Law Enforcement tools to go investigate and arrest and disrupt. But they knew. They knew something was going to happen. They knew that that person needed help. So we need a different set of tools not only for domestic extremism, but quite frankly, all forms of violence, whether its targeted violence or motivated by isis and al qaeda, we have now learned after 20 years of studying why people radicalize, why people mobilize to violence, that the underlying drivers are psycho social. So if you can intervene with individuals early enough in their radicalization process, you can offramp them without ever having to get to a Law Enforcement solution. And thats what im advocating for in this book. We need a set of tools that are Mental Health professionals, social workers, educators, parents to be able to detect when somebody is in that Radicalization Cycle and get them help. But we also just need to be as a Society Working in what we consider the primary prevention space, building protective measures now, in our kids and in our communities so that if and when somebody has a moment of vulnerability or gets exposed to extremist narrative, they have resilience against it. It seems like thats the right thing to do, except when its coming from the leader of one of the countrys two Political Party, and its happening at waco where he announced his campaign and his entire Political Party acts impotent to protect the country from clear imminent threats. What do you do about donald trump and half the people in the country dont want to touch his base . This is a narrative that says my group is facing a threat to our successor survival by an outgroup. Most of our politics bathes in that narrative every day. Were saturated. But only on one side. Only the republicans have that message. So what i would say is on the republican side, they advocate for hostile action, which moves you to extremism. But i would say on both sides, our politics have increasingly been othering. We demonize the other side. Joe biden what has joe biden done thats othering . I dont know that joe biden as a leader is but if you do apples to apples. No, there is no comparison. So what is the nominee for president in the Republican Party do to make the country more dangerous . So i am most concerned on about trump and about the Republican Party Maga Acolytes who actively not only use that precursor narrative, they go to that next step of extremism which is advocating for hostile action. Hostile action can be noncriminal. It can be things like threats and intimidation and bullying, which is how donald trump runs all of his criminal enterprise series through threats and intimidation and bullying. Were seeing that in the trial right now. But the criminal stuff, when you get to hate crimes and vandalism and threats of violence or actual violence and acts of terrorism, he has demonstrated that not only does he dog whistle people to do those things, at times he actually suggests that violence is going to be necessary. You had Kari Lake Last week say not only do you need to put on the armor of god sorry, a reference to a scripture in ephesians about prayer and faith, but went the next step and you also need to slap on a glock, implying that we are going to need to physically not only defend, but she kind of suggested fight for the political outcome that you want. Its very dangerous rhetoric. Most people, most people are not going to go commit an act of violence. But there are a small percentage that are very vulnerable to that kind of messaging. And it does lead to more violence. It does lead to terrorist attacks. And people die because our politicians are so loose with their words. It needs to stop. And the American People need to tell the politicians to stop. I mean, the American People on one side elected the guy who is the worst practitioner, Michael Steele. It is a onesided problem. I take elizabeths perspective and respectfully disagree. The person who bludgeoned New Hampshires husband believed. The leader of one party is circulating messages that mass shooters say in their manifestos they believe. The leader of one party just called for mass protests in new york city and had some bs about not being able the city is not locked down. You can go anywhere you want in the city. There is one guy celebrating the insurrectionists who mauled cops, who beat them in a way that one of those Law Enforcement officials who was a veteran said was medieval combat. Far worse than anything he saw in actual combat on behalf of our country. There is one guy running for president who think people serving the countrys military, the actual military, not a militia, are, quote, suckers and losers. I mean, there is one guy who is radicalizing his base, and it aint joe biden. That is very true. First off, let me say, elizabeth, its so good to see you. Congratulations on the book. Very excited for your success. And its smart stuff, and its important to put out in public. So nicolle, to your point, youre right. There is one guy who is doing all of this. There is one guy at the center of it all. But this one guy is influencing a lot of people. And theyre not just republicans. And theyre not just the hard right conservative. There is the, you know, the smart, sophisticated wall street businessman who says, well, i dont like all of that, i like his policies. What policies . Well, he cut taxes. And he will vote for donald trump. There is the homemaker in New Hampshire who, you know, is reviled by the grab em by the private parts, the Access Hollywood tape, but then confesses, well, in a lot of ways he is just like me. So we have to understand and contextualize whats happening. And ive been saying it for a long, long time. The one guy is infecting a lot of people, and its not just the group that started this, that pushed him out there and gave him the momentum to perpetuate it and keep it going. It is everybody else too. And thats what we have to guard against as we get into the november election. Elizabeth neumann, who has written the most perfectly titled book that weve had a chance to talk about, kingdom of rage. Its available right now. Michael steele, thank you for being my wingman this hour. Very nice to spend the hour with you. Very nice to see you. Congrats on the book. When we come back, can an expresident be charged for crimes committed while in office . Thats a real question, right . Its a real question that will be decided by nine individuals, the United States Supreme Court justices tomorrow morning. Well preview that big day next. Stay with us. Next. Stay with us the farmers dog is fresh food made with whole meat and veggies. Its not dry food. Its not wet food. Its just real food. Its an idea whose time has come. vo if you have graves disease. And itchy eyes, the truth may be even more uncomfortable. 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And upgrade you to one of the latest 5g phones, free. It cannot be the case that a president of the United States can attempt to overturn an election and seize power, and that our Justice System is incapable of holding a trial, of holding him to account before the next election. That cannot be the case. Taking action that will result in further delay in preventing the American People from seeing that evidence in open court is itself suppression of the evidence that the American People have a right to see that evidence, and the court out to recognize that. It cannot be. Hi again, everybody. Its 5 00 in new york. Consider two simple questions that cut through to the very beating heart of our living, breathing democracy. The first is the president of the United States above the law, yes or no . Is the sheer power of the office so absolute, so permanent that no single act, however foul is subject to legal scrutiny . We dont know. While that courthouse in manhattan has so far absorbed our attention these past few days, tomorrow it will be the Supreme Court that well have to keep an eye on as well, making its own bit of Supreme Court history. Opening arguments in Donald Trumps Immunity Case start at 10 00 a. M. Eastern. Those nine justices, those nine human beings will evaluate the arguments being made by a disgraced expresident that the actions he took in the aftermath of losing the 2020 election to overturn that defeat were actions taken by a president , were official acts. His team will make the argument that those fake electors plot and the attack that turned deadly and threatened the life of mike pence at the u. S. Capitol trace back to his duty, his official role as the countrys chief executive. Hell argue that it was done to preserve the integrity of the election. Special counsel jack smiths team has argued, quote, a private scheme of private actors to achieve a private end. The petitioners effort to remain in power by fraud. Quote, nothing in constitutional text, history, precedent or policy considerations supports the absolute immunity that the petitioner seeks. Although it will surprise no one that that hasnt stopped trumps lawyers from asserting that he could go so far as to direct s. E. A. L. Team 6 to assassinate a political opponent. Thats being said out loud now. Thats where we are as a country, as a democracy. That is where we are. Even beyond this epic question of the scope of american president ial power is the all important second question, right. That is what profound damage has been done, how far away from true north are we as a democracy that this question is being considered at all. No american president , not one, not even Richard Nixon asserted that a president should have such sweeping immunity. Not even nixon did that. And yet the man who is making that argument in an attempt to avoid accountability for his actions, actions he barely denies just so happens to be the current republican nominee for the office of the presidency of the United States. And then there is the Supreme Court itself. So here is where this gets interesting, and tricky for them, right . A body whose popularity among the American People according to gallup has plunged farther and faster than any American Institution in civic life. That body, those people on your screen, they denied a request to contemplate this very question from the other side from the prosecutors back in december. Jack smith sought to fast track this case. Maybe not having a trial, maybe not airing the evidence in front of the American People before an election to decide, you guessed it, who will be our president. Make no mistake. Whether or not trump prevails this particular appeal does nothing to change a fact that the nations highest court has already done the disgraced expresident a solid in terms of the timeline, the schedule. Big favor. They have gift wrapped and otherwise unavailable delay for him. Theyve shown the country, the public, the 60 of americans who dont think much of them anymore. Theyve shown an ability to move quickly when he asked them to. So here we go. Foundational principle under consideration, the future of our democracy at stake. Its where we start the hour with some of our favorite experts and friends. U. S. Special correspondent for bbc studios katty kay is here. Joining us rnc spam, host of the Bulwark Podcast tim miller is here. Back with me at the table former official at the Department Of Justice, msnbc analyst the indispensable Andrew Weissman is here. I want to play the s. E. A. L. Team 6 thing. So no one thinks im just saying that. Here it is. Could a president who ordered seal team 6 to assassinate a political rival who was not impacted could he be impeached . If he were impeached and convicted first. My answer is qualified yes. With trump, we should know by now that one of these are hypothetical, right . He always gets to the absolute end of any theoretical hypothetical. Its his right to push these claims. The culprit here is the Supreme Court in making this sort of a new normal. My colleague Melissa Murray and i read a piece today that said the basis of the Supreme Court already botched this because they did not take it as you pointed out in december. There is no reason to have a stay in effect right now because there is no way that theyre going rule that there is immunity in this case. The only argument, the only argument heard from anybody, even the most conservative legal jurists is maybe in some small area dealing with like foreign relations, there may be some area where a president is immune, but its not this. So there no reason to have taken the case. There is no reason to have taken the case and stayed the District Court case. So thats the real evil is i think whats going to happen is the Supreme Court is going to issue a flowery decision about how president s are not above the law. Its going to sound great, and they could issue that in june, and its too late. Because what they will be saying is president s are not above the law, but this former president is. And its really it is so political, with a capital p in terms of what theyre doing here when there is just no basis in the law whatsoever for a claim that he is immune with respect to this case. And what do the most respected defenders of the court, how do you defend if the argument is one you want to weigh in on, why not take it up when jack smith puts it before the court . Delay. I cant give you a good faith argument. The argument one why not take it up in december. Why schedule it when you finally do take it, why schedule it for the very last day. Tomorrow is the very last day of the term. They gave two months for briefing, as if the parties hadnt already fully briefed this in the district and the court of appeals. It could have been heard on an expedited basis. They do that all the time. One of the things again, to be proselytizing for nyu, as my other colleague ryan goodman and i wrote a series of questions that the justices should be asking the parties. And the key one is donald trump is saying that he is immune from prosecution. He is also saying that the d. C. Prosecution is interfering with his ability to run for office. So the question to his Council Counsel is dont you have every reason for us to decide this quickly . On the only question before us which is immunity, not the trial date, thats not supposed to be before us, isnt it your interest to have us decide this quickly . Or are you saying you only want us to decide it quickly if were ruling in your favor, but otherwise you want us to take a lot of time . But that is the that is the Practical Impact of this. Is there do we think so little of them as does the American People there is no scenario that decides this quickly enough for judge Tanya Chutkan to have a trial before the election . I think it is possible. When i look at the data points here, they dont add up to getting there because as you pointed out, they could have taken the case in december. They didnt have to delay this for two months to hear it on the very last day. And so, you know, if im looking at the tea leaves, are you asking me do i think so little of them, and am i so cynical . Yes. I think there are five justices who are perfectly happy to give this a very, very slow roll. Im ten steps more cynical than you are. Im just trying to understand if its possible that they and i think hope is the gateway to despair, so im not going to hope for anything. But is it possible, is it possible to make a decision in a manner that lets judge Tanya Chutkan have a trial before election day . It is. And there are also a number of things they could do. So one of the things that happens not very often, but it can happen in the Supreme Court. It happens in the lower courts is they could say we are lifting the stay. They could take a vote the day after the argument on friday. They could decide were lifting the stay, opinion to follow. And that lets her go forward. And have all the pretrial proceedings. The odds less than 1. Yes. In a rational world, there is no reason for the stay to have existed. But lets say you decided you want to give donald trump his due in terms of making his argument, then the key point to him is tell me why there is immunity in this case. And if its clear from five justices that there is no immunity in this case, then lift the stay immediately. Let the case go forward. And if you want to write on it, write on it. You can issue your flowery decision. The key culprit right now is the stay, because the District Court cannot do anything. She cant remember, there is an 88day period that she had promised that there would be sort of 88 days before the March 4th Trial date. I cant help but say by the way, if that case had gone forward, we would likely have a verdict now, sitting here. Its incredible. Tim miller, who is obviously by design, here is conservatives conservative judge michael litnick. Its unimaginable to me that the Supreme Court will decide this case before the last day of the term, which typically is around july 1st. If thats true, then its equally unimaginable to me that the former president will be tried before the election in november. Against my belief that the court would not take the case, i infer that there must be some dissent on the court by some number of the justices on the question of whether the president , this president has absolute immunity for the particular offenses against the United States with which he has been charged by jack smith. This is my second day back after maternity leave. And it was in that moment as he is answering the questions as only judge luttig does as andrew said, its highly unlikely that the American People will see this case adjudicated before they go and vote again for president. Yeah, and its shameful. On the courtside of things, the cynical, if i may try to out cynic both of you. Its a race. I think there are some of those members, alito, thomas, who knows how many of the others who are happy to do their job to delay and then rule in the right way, right, and have cover on this. What are you talking about . Im not here helping donald trump. We looked at this, and obviously president s arent immune. If they want to shoot somebody on fifth avenue. So i can say i ruled the right way for president s sake while helping donald trump. It seems pretty obvious that thats happening, given that one of the justices spouse tried to help the coup. Look, ill defer to judge luttig and andrew on the legal side of this. My only other observation is kind of listening to all of that and all those clear minded thoughts is the very first clip that you played is from liz cheney. And i would like to hear more of that from people that are in political life currently. And i dont know why its left up to liz cheney to continually have to be the one that is out there saying this is a crisis. We need to do this. There needs to be pressure on the court. It is outrageous. He attempted an insurrection. This is unacceptable. Everything that she says is exactly right, and its not like there is nobody else out there. Obviously on this show and there are other commentators and stuff. But from people in office, from biden surrogates, from the remaining three or four republicans who might want to do the right thing that are elected, more liz cheneys on this issue would be nice right now. Because its urgent, the fact that the Supreme Court has delayed on this so much. You know, katty, the split screen too of trump being held accountable, again, we have no idea. A jury will decide, right, whether he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. But it seems perfectly doable, and that the Supreme Court thought so much of itself and of trump to make sure that that didnt happen at a federal level is part of the stain that the American People according to gallup now ascribe to this makeup of the United States Supreme Court. Yeah, its perfectly doable. We are spendable multiple hours a day watching whats happening up in new york, and were watching donald trump sitting at a defendants table being put on trial. And as you say, the jury will decide whether he is found guilty or not. But the legal process, the idea that no man is above the law is playing out in realtime for us in new york under judge merchan in judge merchans courtroom. And he is having to be subjugated to all of the indecencies and the kind of humiliations if you like of a criminal defendant. Its totally possible. America has the wherewithal to do this. I guess my question in a way would be for justice roberts, who we know is concerned, who we hear from multiple reports is concerned about the legacy of his court and the idea that its Approval Ratings in the country are plummeting in the way they are, the idea that it has become overly politicized and therefore is losing some of its effectiveness. I wonder what he is thinking about this. Im wondering what he thinks this does for the reputation of his court. We know that they all consume a lot of media. They sometimes regurgitate things people like you say on this program. Andrew weissman, thank you for being so generous with your time, doing double duty for all of us. Tim will be back later in the broadcast. Katty doesnt go anywhere. When we come back, Abortion Rights are before the United States Supreme Court today on a case that could have alarming implications right now for Emergency Health care for women. Plus, the months long battle for aid for ukraine ends with a victory for President Joe Biden and ukraine, and any one of us who care about democracy deeply. Its also a big blow for the proputin far right and putin himself. And later in the broadcast, when the man who held the most powerful office in the world is on trial, its safe to say the entire planet is watching. What the world makes of the historic hush money Election Interference trump trial. Deadline white house continues after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. Dont go anywhere. Nothing comes close to this place in the morning. Im so glad i can still come here. 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For a limited time, ask how to save up to 830 off an eligible 5g phone when you switch to comcast Business Mobile. Dont wait call, click or visit an xfinity store today. When others divide. We unite. With Real Solutions to help our kids. Like community schools. Neighborhood hubs that provide everything from Mental Health services to food pantries. Academic tutoring to prom dresses. Healthcare to after care. Community schools can wrap so much around public schools. And through meaningful partnerships with families, they become centers of their communities. Real solutions for kids and communities at aft. Org just answer the point, which is they will present with a serious medical condition that doctors in good faith cant say will present death, but will present potential loss of life. Those doctors potential loss of an organ or serious medical complications for the woman, they cant perform those abortions. If that condition exists, yes. Idaho law does say that abortions in that case arent allowed. Arent allowed. If an organ is at risk. Donald trumps america, guys. That was Supreme Court Justice Sotomayor at oral arguments earlier today summing up where we are not just in idaho, but as a country, as americans. The nations highest court in the land is forced to reckon and rumble with the world donald trump created for women in this country, now, today, thats happening right now. The case before the justices today was about whether a federal law that requires hospitals to provide stabilizing health care to any patient whose life or health is in serious jeopardy covers Abortion Health care in states where the procedure is heavily restricted or banned. The state of idaho is suing because it wants to deny abortions to women having a medical crisis in the moment. Its a direct result of a majority in the court that included three handpicked justices from donald trump stripping away the protections enjoyed in in country for 50 years under roe v. Wade. Here is Justice Sonia sotomayor laying out the real world situations where Women In America have been denied care. Imagine a patient who goes to the er with pprom, 14 weeks. Again, abortion is the accepted. She was in and out of the hospital up to 27 weeks. This particular patient, they tried, had to deliver her baby. The baby died. She had a hysterectomy and she can no longer have children. All right. Youre telling me the doctor there couldnt have done the abortion earlier . Again, it goes back to whether a doctor can in good faith medical judgment thats a lot for the doctor to risk. Despite all the evidence of the horrors caused by situations like that, the male conservative justices seem disinclined to do anything to clean up the mess thats been made and allow women and doctors to provide emergency medical health care. Justice samuel alito asked the u. S. Solicitor general this, quote, how can you impose restrictions on what idaho can criminalize . What idaho has done is a devastating consequences for women already. In the time since the ban went into effect, in one hospital alone, six patients were medevacd, airlifted, thats what happens when youre in a horrific, catastrophic car accident. These women were simply pregnant and had to be airlifted out of idaho in 2024 in america. The arguments took place hours before the Arizona State house voted to repeal its 160yearold near total abortion ban. That law heads to the senate. Joining our consideration, the president of reproductive freedom for all, Minnie Tim Raju was here. She was outside the Supreme Court today speaking to a crowd about reproductive rights and freedom. With me at the table, former Obama White House policy director, msnbc medical contributor, our dear friend vida patel. Katty is still with us as well. Its incredible, incredible that this is even being debated. Even more incredible that it sounds like from the questioning conservative justices want to preserve idahos right to prosecute doctors. Yeah, its very troubling. I had to kind of catch up on listening to this. And the whole time i thought this is not going the direction that i thought it could go in where the emergency medical treatment and labor act which is kind of whats at heart here, its really it has nothing to do with abortion. Its really about triaging, stabilizing the patient and understanding how to treat them. So it had all the things that weve learned in medicine, including our code of ethics. I thought well, that will surely prevail. And sure enough, it turns out that they want us to act more like lawyers, but then lawyers are now allowed to act like doctors. What is the dynamic already . So right now whats happening, not just in the state of idaho, but around the country, youre seeing many doctors who are wondering could this happen to us . And in many cases, things that would normally never even be a question, such as some of the examples that Justice Sotomayor mentioned, ectopic pregnancies, that would be just like any other case. In even in states like maryland where they codified the right tie borgess or reproductive care, everyone is stopping and thinking is this something i need to actually debate . Is this something i need to hav. Most of the doctors we continue with the care thats best for the patient. But there is no doubt that this is affecting the national landscape. And to be clear, its affecting not just Womens Health care, its affecting all health care. If you dont have properly trained doctors who dont understand how to do what we were trained to do in the time of emergency, that really that risks everybodys lives. Not just women. And do you end up with second class of patients, right . Right. Where a pregnant person is someone that no one wants to touch. Yeah, you also end up with the disparities widening. We know that people who have resources are probably going to be able to access them. But we know the majority of women who dont know how to find a resource or may not have the courage to come forward and Say Something doesnt feel right. So this is not necessarily women seeking illegal abortions, this is women seeking health care. And they are now being put at risk. And all the work we have done over the decades to increase access to care now slowly becomes derivative. Tell me how you saw todays arguments. I agree with dr. Patel. They were troubling. I will say the arguments started off really strong. The three progressive women on the court, s sotomayor, kagan, even amy coney barrett, the arguments made by idaho, the state, it really struck me that the feminine part of the court matters. It was the four women, even the one conservative justice who were asking the tough questions about life and death scenarios and seemed pretty troubled by the states arguments. But ultimately, i think its really important two thanks to take away from the moment weve had today. One, 86 of americans support Emergency Access to abortion. Recent polling by kaiser. 86 of americans, a wide range of americans to make up that number. And that this is a national case. This has national implications. And, you know, our republican friends are really fond of pointing out exceptions. The Idaho Council kept pointing out to the idaho exceptions. Imtala could be viewed as the ultimate National Exception to an abortion ban. And yet here we have Idaho In Court Arguing and fighting back against a very simple clearcut Emergency Case of abortion care. And thats frightening and chilling. You know, katty, the questions before the country are yielding new numbers it feels like every week. I mean, the number of people who support abortion, and most are all instances are the highest its ever been. The republican acceptance of enthusiasm for criminalizing Abortion Health care is real. The bans that eliminate exceptions in cases of rape and incest are real. The laws in idaho to prosecute doctors are, as minnie said, confounding even to Justice Amy Coney barrett. Let me show you an ad that gavin newsom is running about what the experience is like for a pregnant woman in america. Were almost there. Youre going make it. Trump republicans want to criminalize young alabama women who travel for reproductive care. Miss, im going to need you to step out of the vehicle, take a pregnancy test. Stop them by taking action at right to travel. Org. And, again, the testimony today before the Supreme Court was that six women were airlifted out of the state of idaho to receive health care. Its happened. Yeah. That same hospital that youre talking about, nicolle, last year one woman was airlifted from st. Lukes for emergency longterm health care in the very same hospital before the law went into effect. So you can see directly the consequences. I mean, youve got doctors in mexico who are mailing Abortion Pills to women living in red states in america. Youve got the prospect of crossing the border to go and have an abortion into mexico where its legal. It looks so antiquated what the United States is doing here compared to any other advanced economy in the world in terms of giving women right to health care. What are doctors going to do . Do they have to stand there saying is she bleeding enough . Are her organs failing enough . Is she infected enough before theyre allowed to take any kind of action . Doctors are increasingly deciding i cant practice the kind of medicine that women need in idaho. Im going to go move to a state where they can have it. And women, young women are starting to make those choices too. Im not going to live in states. Im not going to have children in states where that or get pregnant in a state where thats a possibility because of the impact it might have on me. It just its so hard to explain to people my viewers Around The World what is happening here when it comes to abortion when you see the numbers, the overwhelming majority of americans want to have access to this health care right, but the organs and the structures and the scaffolding of democracy arent doing their job. Theyre not representing the American People on this, as on gun control. Just the system is broken when it comes to things that American Public say they want and what its democracies is delivering for them. Such an important and profound point. Minnie and dr. Kavita patel, thank you so much for being part of this conversation. Katty sticks around with us. A good day for world peace that is what President Joe Biden said today when he signed into law a massive aid package for israel, ukraine and taiwan. That story is next. At story is t . With chewy, always keep their bowl full. Save 35 on your first autoship order. Get the food they love. Delivered again and again. [thud] nothing is more important than family. A family youre born into, a family you choose or a family you make. Im padma lakshmi. I came to this country when i was four years old with my mother. We came here because it was a land of opportunity. But for many, thats not the case. Immigrant families are being separated. Black and brown families are torn apart by a broken legal system. Lgbtq people suffer discrimination in adoption and health care. The need to protect and defend the Civil Liberties we all hold dear is more urgent than ever because families belong together. You can help by joining the american Civil Liberties union today. Call or go online now and become an aclu guardian of liberty. All it takes is just 19 a month. Only 0. 63 a day. The aclu has fought to allow lgbtq couples to marry, for racial justice. To stop a family separation. We cant do this work without you. Together we can defend our democracy, ensure liberty and justice for all, and keep families strong. So please call the aclu now or go to my aclu. Org when you use your credit card, youll receive this special member kit to show youre part of a movement to defend free speech, protect our Civil Liberties, and keep families together. I hope youll join me in supporting the aclu today. Because we the people means all of us. Call or go online to my aclu. Org to become a guardian of liberty today. Its a good day for america. Its a good day for europe. Its a good day for world peace. We dont walkway from our allies. We stand with them. We dont let tyrants win. We dont merely watch global events unfold. We shape them. Some forget that. But this vote makes it clear. There is a bipartisan consensus for that kind of american leadership. Today President Joe Biden signed into law billions of dollars in foreign aid, billions of dollars that make it very clear where america stands on National Security and democracy. That is after months of delay by maga republicans, as you heard the president reference there, at the expense of americas image and prestige and trustworthiness Around The World. The crucial aid package overwhelmingly approved by the u. S. Senate last night includes 26 billion for israel and for humanitarian relief in gaza. 8 billion for security in taiwan, in the indopacific, and 60 billion in wartime assistance for ukraine. It includes 1 billion in weapons and defenses that President Biden says will be shipped to ukraine today. It is exactly what President Biden has demanded from Congress Since october during which time he has spent months negotiating a bipartisan border deal to try to satisfy House Republican detractors only for republicans in the senate to kill the deal and admit publicly that they killed it, even though it had lots of stuff they wanted, to make donald trump happy. Wow. Tim and katty are back. Tim . Thats something. We got to give joe biden a lot of credit. I was waiting for question. But joe biden why doesnt anybody give joe biden credit, nicolle . Its pretty crazy. Even me. Ill raise my hand. Even me. The last couple of weeks, they were going on vacation, these guys, three weeks ago. Why isnt biden out there upbraiding them . Why isnt he shaming them and wagging his finger and using this to political advantage. But multiple times he has worked whats been happening in congress, hes worked the republicans that are workable on the hill. He did it with James Lankford on that senate deal that donald trump killed. And in the end, he got the deal done, again. Just like it happened on infrastructure and on chips, et cetera. Joe biden deserves big credit for this. So does mike johnson, by the way. It took him too long, but the good for mike johnson for doing it. I think its telling about the state of affairs. The very end of bidens remarks today, he says essentially that there is a Bipartisan Coalition republicans, independents, and democrats that are for america being a leader in the world, for america being the worlds essential nation believes that we should use americas strengths for good. And there is a rump group of maga, its about half of the Republican Party, about half of one party that is outside of that, outside of that American Consensus. And i think that if joe biden can position himself as being the one to lead that American Consensus that includes some republicans, i think hell be successful again like he was in 2020. Tim, i do usually have a big lengthy windup question, but i just wanted to hear from you. Sorry if i threw you. I take your point. Its something i observed about biden. He so values the inside game, and he does it at the expense of an outside game, right . So he sort of held he didnt attack them because he was so committed to the inside game. I guess my question for you is do we have enough evidence that there will be enough attention paid to the accomplishment to sort of counter does he get enough credit for what he gets done to make up for the fact that he only plays an inside game with these guys . Its a fair concern. And there is a lot of reporting. Steve was talking about to johnson a lot over the past two months. It doesnt happen by magic. Does he get enough credit . I dont know. The good news is theyre going to have a lot of money to make this case on tv this year and in paid ads, and theyre going to have to do it, and maybe should have been doing it a little earlier. I think you can nitpick on strategy there. But theyre going have to make the case for themselves because it isnt joe bidens strength. Hes got a ton of strengths, but making that forceful case for his record, i think there are a lot of people that dont know about it. But weve seen some of it. Like their very first ad is talking about the context of infrastructure, kind of making fun of trump. Trump had infrastructure week every week. We actually got it done. Making that case over and over again this year is going to be their job and our job and the job of their surrogates and News Reporters that are just speaking the truth. Because thats whats happened. Katty, i think they would say its us, right . Its not their fault. They make the case all the time. They certainly did it forcefully in the state of the union address. But that were partly to blame. I think thats a fair critique of us. What is the reaction Around The World, though . I think this was an open and fair and legitimate question about who we are as a country who is in charge. I think speaker johnson is i dont know if enigma is too strong, but he was a bit of an unknown quantity. What was the reaction Around The World that this passed . Yeah, id kind of loved to have been in some of those hearings that speaker johnson had with bill burns and other top officials, because ive been wondering for months how do you make the case to the American Public that this is worth doing, and they clearly managed to make the case. I guess the reaction is a sigh of relief. To some extent, the delay is a problem in and of itself. The president is right. It took too long. And that delay points to american political divisions that have made this difficult to do and what else might they make difficult to do. So i think there is a general sense that america is a little fragile at the moment. And can you rely on it to be there in the way that we have relied on it to be there for decades . And yes, great celebrations, particularly of course in kyiv and on the front lines in ukraine that this weaponry which already is in europe is going to be there fast. But its raised peoples doubts about the longterm viability of the American Security umbrella. Justifiably, right. Tim miller, thank you for spending time with us today. Katty sticks around a little bit longer. After the break, the world is watching as an american expresident and a Presumptive Republican president ial nominee is on trial. There are some pretty seed di stuff. Well bring you the view from abroad, next. [stomach growling] its nothing. Sounds like something. When you have nausea, heartburn, indigestion upset stomach, diarrhea pepto bismol coats and soothes for fast relief when you need it most. Students. Students of any age, from anywhere. Using our technology to power different ways of learning. So when minds grow, opportunities follow. Donald trump is back in court in new york, one of the highest criminal cases in u. S. Continues. It is the first time that a former u. S. President has to answer to criminal charges. The historic hush money trial of donald trump that got under way with the arduous process of selecting a jury to hear the case. It was a jampacked first day on the job for the new york jury tasked with a historic responsibility. In Donald Trumps criminal trial in new york, a tabloid executive continuing his evidence has data helping mr. Trumps 2016 campaign, including a catch and kill scheme to bury negative stories. The world is watching, and the facts of Donald Trumps first criminal trial is reported by news outlets shows like this one from All Over The World. Its a reminder that the stakes are high for the rest of the world too, right, as the historic case against an american expresident and the Presumptive Republican nominee for president in 2024 plays out in a courtroom in manhattan. In russia, according to bbc news, quote, Court Proceedings were consistently linked to the race for the white house by several outlets. The host of rossia, 60minute political talk show says the only trumps enemies had to defeat him in the election was to imprison him. Its the same kind of thing you hear from trump and his allies right here. Joining us for der spiegel, the german news magazine and website widely circulated all over europe and america, pitski is here. He has been here for 30 years covering american politics and news. Katty is also back with a global audience. I feel like i practiced it and got it right. Did i get it right . So many different ways to say it. No, there is only one way. You tell me how big this story is in germany, in europe. I cant speak for all germans, and our audience. Its the top story every day when we write about the trial, its the number one trial for traffic, for subscriptions, for circulation. And not just clicks, but also see in realtime how people engage and that people read the stories longer. They read all the way through, which doesnt usually happen. Were amazed but not surprised. Its a really important story because germany has this weird relationship with the United States and with trump. We all have ptsd from the four years he was in the white house. So everybody is really looking at this. And it doesnt stop. I mean, the trial gets everything. It has all the drama. The first six days were even more than we expected, you know, with Jury Selection, and the poor guy who set himself on fire. But its more than that. Its really about the future of this country. Who is going to be in the white house. Next time. And that affects us in germany very much. Tell me about the ptsd. Well, you know, germany and america, its always this i have friends who bitch about this country automatic the time, if i can say that. Please. Complain and find all the faults because you do everything right that we want to do, but you do it all wrong. But they cant wait to plan the next trip to new york. Yeah. So its always this back and forth. And when trump came into office, it sort of crystallized that. And it also this balance got totally out of whack. He brought up the ugly you talk about this on this show all the time. And its you know, its really people after 2020, people said okay, we need a break. Its like youre in a dysfunctional relationship. You cant stop. You dont know how to get out, but you suffer. And it was the same way with germany. Weve been tied to you guys since world war ii. We liberated us, but we resent you for it. There are all these different layers. And then trump comes in. He personifies everything for us. So its been were all tired. Yeah. You must be tired. You know. Tell me what for you has jumped out . Because as you said, weve been living with this for so long now. What in terms of what you heard so far surprised you . Nothing really surprises me anymore about him. I was there when he came down that escalator. So every time there is like boiling frogs. Every time there is another thing happening, oh, okay, okay. What really surprises me now how the prosecution, how they put everything together. Like the Opening Statements were very tight, very short, but it was a narrative that you could follow. And for the first time weve talked about this for months. And since the arraignment, since the indictment a year ago. Now we can really see this coming to life through people like nobody knows david pecker in germany. But if you tell our readers that this is the guy who knows the secrets, this is the guy with the vault, the safe, then they its just amazing the depth of the alleged depravity behind all this. Like listening to david pecker talk about this. We knew about catch and kill and how it worked. We read ron farrow and all that. But to really see how these stories were launched by Michael Cohen and by trump, its shocking. Nothing like this could ever happen in germany, i hope. This guy would be in jail already in germany. So amazing. So there is the shock of whats really happening, but also at the same time, you know, you go to court, and its like this courthouse, the history. Its like this dingy place, this courtroomy Harvey Weinstein was. And it brings the story to life, everything that weve been writing about for so long, you know. And the miller report and the impeachments, and all that stuff. But this is real life, you know. And i think that settles in with him too. Yeah. I think thats right. It must be, because psychologically, this is fascinating to see him sit in that courtroom and just fully crumble and then come out and do his little spiel in his playpen outside in the hallways. Its a spectacle. Its a spectacle. Its a spectacle, but its more than a spectacle. Its more than hush money. Its more than Stormy Daniels. Its about Election Interference. You know, if he gets back into the white house and he says putin, you can do what you want, berlin is six hn miles from the ukrainian boarder. Thats shorter than north carolina, charlotte from here. Thats really scary. Thats something katty talks about on the show a lot. Were going give katty the last word on the other side of a very short break. Dont go anywhere. T break. Dont go anywhere. To a child, this is what conflict looks like. Children in ukraine are caught in the crossfire of war, forced to flee their homes. A steady stream of refugees has been coming across all day. Its basically cold. Lacking clean water and sanitation. Exposed to injury, hunger. Exhausted and shell shocked from what theyve been through. Every dollar you give can help bring a meal, a blanket, or simply hope to a child living in conflict. Please call or go online to givenowtosave. Org today with your gift of 10 a month, thats just 0. 33 a day. We cannot forget the children in places like syria, born in refugee camps, playing in refugee camps, thinking of the camps as home. Please call or go online to givenowtosave. Org today with your gift of 10 a month. Your gift can help children like ara in afghanistan, where nearly 20 years of conflict have forced the people into extreme poverty. Weakened and unable to hold herself up, ara was brought to a Save The Childrens center, where she was diagnosed and treated for severe malnutrition. Every dollar helps. Please call or go online to givenowtosave. Org today with your gift of 10 a month. Just 0. 33 a day. And thanks to special Government Grants that are available now, every dollar you give can multiply up to ten times the impact. And when you use your credit card, youll receive this special Save The Children tote bag to show you wont forget the children who are living their lives in conflict. Every war is a war against children. Please give now. Katty, we pick up a lot of this intelligence from you as well that the world is watching. And in some ways, its sort of beyond shock and awe and almost aghast. Yeah, i slightly wish that we werent in this situation where the world was so fascinated by a former porn star and a president cooped up in a courtroom. And the awful things and was focusing on all these incredible things that happen in this country all the time, the amazing amount of innovation and the art and the science and the medical breakthroughs. And yet we have to watch what is happening in that courtroom because it really is, as we were just hear, its not just about Stormy Daniels and those hush money payments. Its about democracy and the rule of law and the future of this country. Katty kay, mark pitzke, thank you very much. Well wle be right back. Latinums i have upped my dish game. I just scrape. Load. And im done. In that dishwasher . In that dishwasher. Only Platinum Plus is packed with more dawn to remove up to 100 of grease and food residue. Get the highest standard of clean, even in your machine. Clean enough for ya . Yeah. Scrape, load, done. Cascade Platinum Plus. Dare to dish differently. To me, harlem is home. But home is also your body. I asked myself, why doesnt pilates exist in harlem . So i started my own studio. Getting a brick and mortar in new york is not easy. Chase ink has supported us from studio one to studio three. When you start small, you need some big help. And chase ink was that for me. Earn up to 5 cash back on business essentials with the chase ink business cash card from chase for business. Make more of whats yours. I dont want you to move. From chase for business. Im gonna miss you so much. You realize well have internet waiting for us at the new place, right . Oh, we know. We just like making a scene. Transferring your services has never been easier. Get connected on the day of your move with the xfinity app. Can i sleep over at your new place . Can katie sleep over tonight . Sure, honey this generation is so dramatic from chavez and huerta to striking janitors in the 90s to todays fastfood workers. Californians have led the way. Now, 20 hour is here. Thanks to Governor Newsom and leaders in sacramento, we can lift workers out of poverty. Stop the race to the bottom in the fastfood industry. And build a california for all of us. Thank you governor and our california lawmakers for fighting for what matters. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these truly extraordinary times. Were so