Transcripts For MSNBCW Velshi 20240703

Norman, bad news. I never graduated from med school. What . But the good news is. Xfinity mobile just got even better now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. Plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. I gotta get this deal. Thats like 20 a month per unlimited line. I dont want to miss that. Thats amazing doc. Mobile savings are calling. Visit xfinitymobile. Com to learn more. Doc . Velshi starts right now. Thats all we can say. We were jabbing it away at the break. And we just wanted to say, congratulations to you. Because we know your book has come out this week. And youve been in a bookstore. Well, thank you. I think he was on the train this morning to come to you guys. We were all traveling all over the place. And im heading to san francisco. As soon as my show is over and getting on a plane. Im hoping to sleep a little bit. Then i get off and land at 5 p. M. Local time. Then i have to be at an event at 7 00 an hour away. Im changing the suit. I like the scene in the tie. Its meant to be slept in. You can just do your thing, and get up and go. Im not sure its not like pajamas. I thought you were going to say it was a suit on the top, sweatpants on the bottom. No. Its a full pants its a whole thing. But, i do appreciate alecia that youre celebrating our new colors. We got new colors on the show. Yes, the graphics are amazing. They look so good. Shot out to mark greenstein. Didnt have this color . I think you gave it up. Well, you stole it. Lets be clear. But, i defer to the greatness of mark and his team. Your show is calling. You guys have a great weekend. Thank you guys. And thanks to you at home for joining us. Today, on the velshi it has been a bruising week in Criminal Court for donald trump. But, trumpism is alive and well in america. Were going to talk about how the Mega Movement is hoping to get a global fight against democracy. Plus, shes a counterterrorism expert, former Trump Administration official commanded about question he was on a mission to drive her fellow evangelicals away from the cult of donald trump. Elizabeth newman joined me to explain. In a bright spot this week for the brave people who are still fighting for womens healthcare rights under constant threat of arrest by one of the most Ricardian Antiabortion Machines in the country. We are going back to alabama to hear about a small, but crucial victory. Then if you were a child or you had a child or if you even knew any children in the past 40 years then you know lois lowry. The iconic, awardwinning, Best Selling Author of a dozen of books for children joints today for the velshi band book club. That starts today. On velshi. Good morning to you. Its saturday may the 11th, and theres a very important election just six months away. But, there are bigger problems diverting republicans attention away from the campaign on the one hand. Theres donald trump. The gop is twice impeached, four times indicted president ial nominee is facing a historic Criminal Trial that kept him away from the Campaign Trail for the better part of the last month. The former president had a bruising week in court. Testimony from Stormy Daniels wedged up sordid details about his playboy past that are likely to remind voters of his history of mistreating women. He think he gets a reprieve from this weekend. Hes going to spend tonight holding a rally in new jersey where he will get to do all the talking. Meanwhile, bitter divisions of House Republicans spelled out into the open again. On wednesday the georgia congresswoman Marjorie Taylor green moved to speaker matt johnson. The overwhelming majority of both parties in the house voted to table the motion, but the episode drew attention again to the unresolved tensions within the gop. Which is why the effort to oust johnson is worth a closer look. Its not another Temperature Tantrum by the chaos caucus. This reveals something yet more troubling. Greens attempt to oust johnson began weeks ago after a speaker negotiated a deal with democrats that led to the passage of the long deleted aid package for ukraine. Which has been a key Sticking Point in congress. For some time now gop support for ukraine has been awaiting. Its a change of opinion that has been driven in no small part by actual russian propaganda. Congressional republicans are now even voicing concern that members of their own party our Trafficking Progression Messages right in the u. S. Capital. In an interview last month Michael Mccall the republican chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee Says he believes russian propaganda has infected a good chunk of my partys base. Another republican. Michael turner. The chair of the House Permanent Select Committee on intelligence agrees. Last month he said Promo Show Messages are being uttered on the house floor. One of those people believed to be peddling russian propaganda at the capital is none other than Marjorie Taylor green. The recently retired Congressman Ken Buck even dumped her moscow marjorie. She published a post on x that said anyone who funds ukraine is funding the most corrupt money scheme of any foreign war in our countrys history and forcing the American People to pay for it. It is linked to a story on a dubious website alleging that the ukrainian president Vladimir Zelensky had recently purchased a pair of Luxury Yachts for 75 million. The following month the ohio senator jd vance alluded to the same story during an interview with steve bannon. The implication is that ukraine, and its president are corrupt. It suggests that they are using the money america is giving them for their personal benefit instead of using it to defend their country and their democracy from russia. The story is categorically false. Its a lie. A pair of Disinformation Researchers at Clemson University looked into the claims. They found at the time the two yachts referenced in the story had been sold. Not anyone. Let alone to ukraines wartime president. They also traced the stories origins to a website called d. C. Weekend which they discovered was full of new stories copied from other sites and rewritten by Artificial Intelligence engines. And mixed in with the content are dubious original reports. Like the false yacht story. Additionally, those reports were attributed to fake writers, and the site itself is hosted on a server in moscow. In that the clemson researchers to conclude that d. C. Weeklies operations were consistent with the larger prorussian influence campaign. Now, this is only one example of how russian propaganda has chipped away at republican support for ukraine. Just a small part of a larger offensive strategy intended to subvert democracy itself. Michael turner, one of the republicans warning about how russia has taken influence of his party. To the extent that this propaganda takes hole it makes it more difficult for us to really see this as an authoritarian versus democracy battle. Which is what it is. This is the new propaganda war. Its goal is far bigger than influencing one partys Policy Position on one issue. Ukraine. Its true goal is to undermine democratic ideals in order to boost autocracy, and the stronger men who stand to benefit from the system of government. In junes coverage for the story on atlantic. Including, why this is a priority. Quote, if people are naturally drawn to the image of human rights to the language of democracy. To the dream of freedom, then those concepts have to be poisoned. Joining me now is anne applebaum. Shes a staff writer for the atlantic. She is also author of the forthcoming book. Autocracy inc. Dictators who want to run the world. As well as twilight of democracy. The seductive lord as a of authoritarianism. Thank you for joining us. We appreciate you being with us in this remarkable article you conclude that russia and china are doing this. The Influence Peddling with the goal of electing donald trump. Talk to me about why you think those countries stand to benefit from that. So, its important to step back a little bit and understand what it is that they are doing. These are countries, and its russia, china. But, also others. Other autocracies. One nesting and power. And their most important opponents are people who use the language of human rights. Of freedom. Of liberty. Of democracy. They need to undermine those groups. They need to put them out of business. They need to convince the people that these ideas have no meaning and no purpose. One of the inspirations for people who fight for democracy in countries like russia and china has always been the United States. Of course, the United States doesnt always live up to those ideals itself. But, it for those ideals in the world. And donald trump is a leader that does not stand for those ideas. In fact, he mocks them. He himself is transactional. He has indicated he would do deals with whoever is most powerful. And putting him in charge of the United States. Especially, after january 6th. Which was also understood around the world as an assault on american democracy. As an assault on our capital. What undermines the idea that so many people aspire to in so many different places. Its not that complicated a story, but it takes place in a big scale. I think its understand important to understand the context. Obviously, we discussed the fact that if russia and ukraine is not concluded by election and inauguration time than it probably wont be. That is an advantage to vladimir putin. But, more importantly we have the most Election Year in recent history. More people are going to the polls around the world, and many of those countries are countries in which voters are giving up some of their rights. India, its happening right now. Whats the larger goal . This isnt just about russia and ukraine. If this isnt just about china and taiwan. How does this work in terms of undermining the concepts of Democracy In America . You just select enough people in congress who doesnt believe in democracy . Is that a thing . Is even broader than that. As convincing americans that they shouldnt care about rights. Its convincing americans that they shouldnt care about americas role in the world. Convincing americans to withdraw from the world. Not to stand for any kind of ideals as we have done for the last several decades. And its also there is a larger game as well. Which is the autocratic narrative. Which is now shared by so many countries, and also by some americans. Its pretty clear that autocracy is secure, and stable, and safe. Democracy is divisive, degenerate, and declining. And to those in the United States will also say these things, and argue these things are also arguing in essence for a change of our politics. For deeper change. They are hoping that if, and when donald trump has a second term in office that he will continue undermining rights. And you will for example replace our independent Civil Service with loyalists. That he will change the way the United States is run. Its a convenient narrative for them, and a convenient narrative for autocracy and other places. You wrote republicans are both active participants and passive recipients of the propaganda. This reminded me of the conversations we used to have about disinformation and misinformation. Some people put it out, and others willingly receive it and spread it. Talk to me about how the differences there, and what you do about it. Can you convince some of these republicans in congress . Be careful. Youre getting fed a lot of that information here. The best spokesman for that or other republicans. Weve seen them starting to speak out in the last few days. One of the difficulties though now. This is important for people to understand. Is that there are independent groups that are researchers. Her academics. There are a lot of scholars, and people who study the system and who seek to understand how it works. One of the things that this Republican Congress has done over the last few months is try to undermine them. Create Conspiracy Theories around them. Black in their names. Prevent them from having influence. Convince social Media Companies not to pay any attention to them. I mean, theres a project almost not only to put out authoritarian propaganda, but also to undermine the people who seek to expose it, and explain it. So, one of the first steps we need to take is for the government, the media, and everyone who understands whats at stake to make sure we have those peoples back. To put pressure on social Media Companies. To listen to them again. To continue to take on foreign propaganda which they have been doing in 2020. And to continue to search out this problem. To find it, and explain it. Amazing article as always. Thank you so much for this, and all the information you give us to help us uphold democracy. Anne applebaum is a staff writer at the atlantic. She is the writer of autocracy inc. dictators want to run the world. Donald trump jake dunne oil executives. Telling people that hes going to ditch Biden Administration environmental regulations for the low price of 1 billion. And its coming at a dangerous moment for both american democracy, and the health of our rapidly warming planet. Plus, i will talk to one devout christian and former Trump Administration official who is trying. And i will call to order this weeks meeting of the velshi banned book club. The legendary lois lowry joints me to discuss her award winning, and important book. In the giver. Shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. And it could wake at any time. Think youre not at risk for shingles . Its time to wake up. Because shingles could wake up in you. If youre over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. i thought water would help with these dry spots. Thats lawn disease. But Scotts Healthy Plus will cure it lawn disease . Been going around. So like other people have it and its not. Pick up a bag of the new Scotts Turf Builder healthy plus lawn food today. Feed your lawn. Feed it. My frequent heartburn had me taking antacid after antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. For one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. One pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. man mm, hey, honey. For one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. Looks like my todo list grew. Paint the bathroom, give baxter a bath, get life insurance, hm. I have a few minutes. 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The Biden Administration is now saying that israel may have violated International Law in gaza using weapons provided by the United States. The state Department Released a report to congress yesterday saying it is quote, reasonable to assess that american supplied weapons have been used in ways inconsistent with israels obligations. But, the state Department Says it hasnt verified specific instances that would justify withholding military aid. In the report stopped short of accusing israel of violating the terms of u. S. Weapons agreements. The report came on the same day as the United Nations General Assembly voted largely symbolically to back a palestinian bid to become a full member of the United Nations. It passed with overwhelming support. But, two of the nine nations voted against the measure were israel and the United States. On the ground inside gaza israel has issued a new urgent warning to evacuate parts of Rafah Signaling and expansion of its Military Campaign despite warnings from the Biden Administration. Joining us now from cairo is the Nbc News International correspondent. It is good to see you. This time last week we were all thinking, hoping that there was a ceasefire about to take place. A Hostage Release Commander ceasefire. It was going to be a long, drawn out process. Both sides israel, and hamas had indicated they agreed to something. By this time under it had fallen apart. It wasnt apparently the same deal they were talking about. Where are we right now . The talks have ended, and all parties have returned to their places without an agreement unfortunately. In fact, for the people of Southern Gaza its probably what you might call a worst case scenario, because the Israeli Military is positioning itself in the Southern Gaza for that allout assault. The Biden Administration has warned against. And theres a real sense of panic we are being told by our cruise inside gaza. After the Israeli Military order the evacuation of hundreds of thousands of people. According to some organizations 400,000 people, was he. To give you a sense, was he is. 6 miles wide. Its a small strip of land on the coast. At the same time they are increasing airstrikes. Its occupying parts of gaza with tanks. Including, the allimportant rafah rough area. Its in the area consisting of sandy dunes. They have no sir each. Its got no water or electricity. Aid groups are telling us it does not meet the basic needs of the people who are there. And it has to be also said that we put together an investigation some tenday good days ago where we were able to map out some of the airstrikes that the Israeli Military conducted. And they have had in the past areas they told civilians to flee to for safety. Will watch closely to see any needs moments. I appreciate you joining us. By the way i was in a bookstore on wednesday in washington, d. C. And i saw your beautiful book there that we never had a chance to talk about. But, she published a book thats called but you dont look arab. Thank you for coming to us. Coming up, donald trump is putting a price tag on a racing abide in era regulations. Something tells me the Oil Industry Executives they are shaking down can afford to pay. With usps ground advantage®. Sara federico at st. Jude, we dont care who cures cancer. We just need to advance the cure. Its a Bold Initiative to try and bump cure rates all around the world, but we should. It is our commitment. We need to do this. Wanna know a secret . More than just my armpits stink. Facts. Thats why i use secret whole Body Deodorant for clinically proven odor protection everywhere. So i smell great all day, all hike, and all night. Secret whole Body Deodorant. So, at a private dinner at maralago last month donald trump sat down with a group of oil executives, and he pitched a quid pro quo partnership. According to Washington Post and the New York Times trump asked for 1 billion in donations from the oil magnets. Promising them that in return he would roll back joe bidens environmental rules that threatened their industry. At the same time reporting from political reveals that these same Oil Companies are literally writing Policy Proposals and drafting Executive Orders to feed trump if he is elected. The Biden Administration has called Climate Change next essential threat. And has made some real progress. But, even buttons climate initiatives may not be progressive enough. But, the trump plan . The trump plan is in his own words drill, drill, drill. The trump plan involves a literal quid pro quo with the oil industry. Trump will greenlight more drilling. Trump will stop the Biden Administrations plan to expand vehicle use in this country. Trumbull pushed through massive gas project which has been called a carbon bomb that biden paused earlier this year. Trump will continue to grow our reliance on oil and gas. Pushing us backward while the rest of the world attempts to transition to renewables. While the planet hurtles down the path of high admissions and rapid destructive climatic change. The stakes could not be higher. A recent report showed time is of the of its essence. Global temperatures this past month made this the hottest april on record. Thats 11 straight months of recordbreaking heat. Ocean temperatures are experiencing the same heat wave. April march 13 straight months of recordbreaking Ocean Temperatures. Weve already seen what scientists fear may be the largest Coral Die Offs or Coral Bleaching event ever recorded. Many marine life species are experiencing mass die offs and drastic shifts in hunting, eating, and migration patterns. As animals migrate out of their normal ranges in search of cooler water. Warm Ocean Temperatures are driving stronger storms. Causing meteorologists to warn that this years Hurricane Season may be busy, and destructive. As Temperature Records continue to be broken Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide which is the primary Greenhouse Gas which warms the planet has also reached record highs. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration announced that the global average concentration of Carbon Dioxide increased by the largest margin recorded year overyear. Its all bad news, but none of it is particularly surprising. Some Climate Scientists have expressed surprise at the pace in which we are barreling toward these frightening benchmarks. But, the trajectory we are on has been studied, and well predicted. In the Environmental Community has been ringing these alarm bells for decades. Telling us exactly where we are headed. So, this november our nation is going to face a choice. One candidate whos got a proven record of taking steps in the right direction. And one who has committed themselves to taking us backward. And his election may be underwritten, and his Energy Policy is handwritten by the oil industry. Joining me now is the environmentalist, and founder of both 350. Org and third act. The bill is a distinguished scholar of environmental studies. He is the author of several books. Including the ends of nature, and the flag of the cross of the station wagon. Hes one of those people. Bill is actually one of those people. I almost dont ask this question, because youre going to laugh at me for asking it. But, i want to get your reaction to the news that donald trump is working directly with the oil industry. Trying to find some kind of a deal in which they fund his campaign or legal bills. Whatever it is their funding. Ntd regulates it in your favor. A third act we work on two issues. And in one sentence donald trump managed to sum up the threat to both. He basically said, ill sell you the climate for 1 billion. The level of staggering corruption, and the level of staggering idiocy involved in both those things. We now take for granted. But, we shouldnt. We should stop for a minute, and say this guy is marketing his office. And hes doing it in the service of the destruction of the planet. End of story. We understand the politics of that. What about the other side of it . What weve seen over the last several years as companies have difficulties getting workers out of a low Employment Environment have to listen to their workers or their shareholders. Is there sufficient pressure on the Oil Companies. Its very hard to boycott them. You cant make these kinds of deal. Theres a future here. The future could kill us or save us. Know. I think the pressure for the Oil Companies is they are in an existential moment right now. The reason is the price of Renewable Energy has dropped so fast that it has now cleared. That only by political gamesmanship can maintain their standing. California almost every day this spring has generated for large periods of time more than 100 of its electricity from renewables. And that night batteries have become the biggest source of supply to the electric grid. Thats what the future looks like. And its the future that scares the heck out of exxon and chevron. Last year they made respectively 36,000,000,020 1 billion. So, 1 billion of that would be much. They are going to do that to make sure that donald trump is there to help them out. The irony is of course they dont need to pay him. He already said hes going to do all this stuff. Thats exactly what he did the first time around. What they have to do is make sure he wins. So, i hope the results of this will be that people understand at the deepest level that this is a Climate Election. Yes, there are other issues that people are going to find more important or are more focused on in the moment. But, in a very real sense this is the most important Climate Election ever. Since climate is the deepest problem our species has ever encountered it should be one of the things thats driving us to work. It certainly is a third act. Lets think about that for a second. There are people including yourself who actually like the Biden Administration to be doing more. And would like us to be much more focused on this then we are at accelerating coming taking a broader view of this. I think you have argued that this administration has gone in the right direction, and has taken some meaningful steps. But, for the people who are dissatisfied. This is my main issue. Im not entirely dissatisfied. I might not vote. Would you tell them . Stock up on the sunscreen. The Biden Administration has disappointed in certain ways. But, they have provided more support for clean energy by far than any administration before. And last year in january with their paws on new permits they struck the deepest blow against big oil that anyone has yet struck from the white house. That caused howls of outrage. Its the thing more than anything else thats driving this Oil Industry Effort to re elect him. Because they know that natural fracked gas is their only remaining real future. And they desperately want to make sure that nobody gets in the way of it at all. So, the stakes here couldnt be higher, because the time is so short. They need to cut admissions in half by 2030. Thats one president ial administration away. We are not going to have someone take off on january 20th, 2029. And somehow pull our bacon out of the fire. Bill, thank you sir. I know our goal is not to frighten people. Its to motivate them to do things in service of a better planning cleaners. Thank you, sir. Hes a contributing writer at the new yorker. Coming up, the dangerous feature of politics and christianity. On the serious threat that it poses. Poses. Why would i use kayak to compare Hundreds Of Travel Sites at once . I like to do things myself. I cant trust anything else to do the job right. Kayak. Aaaaaaaahhhh kayak. Search one and done. You know, i spend a lot of time thinking about dirt. At three in the morning. Any time of the day. What people dont know is that not all dirt is the same. You need dirt with the right kind of nutrients. Look at this new organic soil from miraclegro. Everybody should have it. It worked great for us. This is as good as gold in any garden. If people only knew that it really is about the dirt. Youre a dirt nerd. Huge dirt nerd. Im proud of it [ryan laughs] in 2022 a young woman by the name of was detained by a rawness of so called Morality Police. They arrested her for allegedly violating the country strictly enforced islamic dress code. Which requires women to cover their heads in the shape of their bodies. She was pulled into a police van. She died three days later. She was 22 years old. Her jet sparked a wave of protests across the country. Women defiantly burned their headscarves and cut their hair. Unafraid of the consequences. The movement became known as. Women, life, freedom. The Movement Made a difference. At least for a while. Following aminis Death Women In Iran appeared in public with their hair uncovered. The Morality Police largely pulled back. But, two years later the Iranian Regime is cracking down once again. Yvonne says it has launched a new operation aimed at enforcing their countrys mandatory hijab law. Iran is waging a war on women, and is deploying large number of Security Forces to intensify the enforcement of compulsory veiling in public spaces through subjecting women and girls to constant surveillance, beatings, sexual violence, electric shocks, arbitrary arrest and detention, and other harassment. A spokesperson on the United Nations womens Rights Office adds that there have been reports of widespread arrests and harassment in women and girls. Many between the ages of 15 and 17. The londonbased Iran International posted this video of a woman being apprehended by Iranian Police in toron. The outlet said she was arrested for violating the dress code. Nbc news has not independently verify these details. But, you can see both male and female agents detaining the woman, and forcefully putting her into the back of a van. According to sky news the woman who appears to be assisting in the arrest the women appeared to be assisting in the arrest are ambassadors of kindness. They help enforce the so called morality laws. According to the United Nations hundreds of businesses and restaurants have been shut down by the authorities for allegedly failing to enforce the hijab law. As for mahsa amini, a u. N. Fact finding mission in march said iran is to blame for the physical violence that killed her. The unit mission found that enron committed Crimes Against Humanity and its violent repression against her death as well. Iran has denied responsibility for aminis death and rejected accusations from Human Rights Organizations , by witnesses, and foreign governments that it crushed peaceful protest with violence. We will be right back. Production, we nof efficiencies, and greater agility. marquis with a custom private 5g network. Our customers get what they want, when they want it. jen now were even smarter and ready for whats next. vo achieve enterprise intelligence. Its your vision, its your verizon. Sup . Who are you . Im your inner child. Get in. Listen, what you really need in life is some freakin torque. What . Horsepower keeps you going, but torque gets you going. What happened to my inner child craving love and acceptance . How about you love and accept this . Pppppowershot when can i drive . You already are the dodge hornet r t. The totally torquedout crossover. See . Homequote explorer lets you easily compare Home Insurance options so you can get what you need without overpaying. Yeah, weve spent a lot on this kitchen. Oh, yeah, really highend stuff. Sorry, thats our ghost. Yeah, okay. Hes more annoying than anything. Too bad theres mold behind the backsplash. [ sniffs ] yep, thats mold. Well, then, lets see if we can save you some money with progressive. Guess how much i originally paid for this fireplace . 23 bucks. Materials and labor. Just ignore him. You got bamboozled when you dont read, and pray you say wow. Theres a bible out now that includes the constitution, and the bill of rights. Isnt that wonderful . No. No, its disgusting. Its blasphemous. Its a play. Are you kidding me . Some of you are so encouraged by that . Let me tell you something. The gospel is not an american gospel. It is the gospel of the lord jesus christ. That was the a evangelical pastor calling out Donald Trumps latest snake order. Trump is talking a bible that includes the u. S. Constitution and pledge of allegiance. Its marketed as the god bless the usa bible. It comes at a price tag of 59. 99. While he might snicker at the absurdity of the former impeached president. Its crucial that we as citizens to take serious. What we are witnessing from todays Brindle Party is an unholy alliance. Its less of a president ial campaign, and more of a crusade. When that openly much is under the banner of retribution, and is coopting actual christian values. Trump in the christian nationalist aim to dismantle the very features that made our democracy admired worldwide. Foundational american values. Like pluralism. Multiculturalism. Civil liberties. But, not everybody in the evangelical community is on board. An increasing number of evangelical leaders are fighting to reclaim their faith, and help their fellow believers break free from magas colchester grip. Joining that group as this woman. Elizabeth newman. A former Homeland Security official who began her career during the aftermath of the September 11th Attacks and that bush and ministration. Over time she said she began to recognize that the greatest threat to our National Security came from within. From the white nationalists, and the extremists within her own beloved american evangelical church. During the Trump Administration newman sounded the alarm. One congressman in the 2020 hearing about the transnational threat of White Supremacist violence. Newman resigned from her role at the department of Homeland Security shortly after her testimony in protest against what she called Donald Trumps failure of leadership, and a stoking of extremism. And eventually worked to prevent for 20 years as a counterterrorism expert. Most people would agree that its easy to point fingers and resort to tribalism. But, it takes courage and integrity to turn that finger inward. To hold our own people accountable. Newman exemplifies that moral fortitude. Regardless of how you might feel about her politics. In her new book she confronted the dangerous fusion of right wing politics and christian exceptionalism. What she views as a serious threat to democracy. As with a counterterrorism expert, and Observant Christian she says she felt a duty to rescue her church for medicals. In a recent interview newman recalls the shock of seeing the capital under siege by fellow christians. Quote, Flash Forward to january 6th and the capital is actually attacked. But, not by vital of radical islamist jihadists. Its by christians. Its by faith. Theres pictures of People Holding posters with bible verses. Christian symbolism, and language was seen throughout the day. And it was just gut punching to me. I spent 20 years protecting our country from the threats over there. And the threat was actually here. Post 9 11. We as the muslim community. Please speak out. Please explain how your faith does not justify violence. And i felt like the obligation to the Christian Community is the same. I wanted to help my community understand how we got here, because so many people were puzzled. How did this happen to us . Then what can we do about it . Elizabeth newman joins me after the quick break. Dont go anywhere. Feed your lawn. Feed it. [shaking] itchy pet . with chewy, save 20 on your first pharmacy order so you can put an end to the itch. Get flea and tick medication delivered right to your door. [panting] 20 has promised elizabeth newman. A Counterterrorist Expert at the department of Homeland Security who served under the george w. Bush and donald Trump Administrations. She is the author of the new book. The kingdom of rage. The rise of christian extremism, and the path back to peace. Thank you for writing the book. Thank you for being with us. There are so many things we could talk about. But, i want to talk about the crux of your book. And i want to talk about Donald Trumps relationship with evangelicals. Its fascinating. Considering who he is. We discussed whether its transactional or whether its about Supreme Court justices are what its about. You said youve accused donald trump of engaging in something called group radicalization. Explain that to us. Yeah. The definition of extremism i use is when someone perceives a threat to an outgroup. And hostile action is therefore deemed necessary. So, in group outgroup context. Us versus them. Thats normal in our politics. But, donald trump had this great ability to tap into grievance in the conservative, and Christian Communities about 10 years ago. Stir it up, and his solutions for those grievances were both himself. I am your strongman. Im going to push back. But, also this at times this violent rhetoric. He would say it in ways that there was plausible deniability. But, what we saw of him being on the National Stage was increases in violent attacks. Hate crimes would spike when he would have a campaign rally, and demonize immigrants. We would see hate crimes spike against immigrants. During covid we saw hate crimes spike against the asian community, because he would use language that would denigrate the asian committee. So, he has this profound impact his words, and through his grievance. Constant stirring of grievances to both allow a large section of our country to at least cognitively be open to our suggestion that violence might be necessary. We have some surveys that say 30 to 40 of americans believe that violence might be necessary to achieve their political aim. That the definition of terrorism. Its frightening to me as a Security Person to think thats where we are. But, not only does he change the way people are thinking about how we solve problems in this country. There are some small percentage of people that actually go, and to those violent acts. Thats why we are in the 10th year of everincreasing violence, terrorism attacks, and plots in this country. What experts like you called statistics terrorism. Talk to me about the fact that clearly all white nationalists are not evangelicals, and most evangelicals are not white nationalists. But, theres this section there that becomes worrisome. I get he could play into grievance. I get he could play the strongman. How does he get to play the prophet . Yeah. So, i paint this picture the term i use christian extremism. There is a version at our community of religious extremism. Im arguing that what were seeing today is a consequence of several factors. Is a religious element, but theres also the white power movement. The antigovernment extremist movement. They all sort of intermingle, and intermix. And its really actually quite hard to categorize in the traditional ways that we have tried to bend extremist ideology. And trump comes into his and hes this figure. He is the savior. And he is able to rally people to embrace ideas, and things that the community wouldnt have previously embraced. For policy things like just rejecting conservative principles. I think that was the first moment for many of us we were like, wait a second. I thought the republican parties stood for lower taxes, and prolife abortion. Basically, donald trump, whatever she says people are like thats what people now are going to support. It has become a cult. It is a cult of personality for large lot of the conservative and Christian Community. Whatever donald trump says theyre going to go after that. Whats the solution . We were in the clip of that pastor. Is that common . Other people of religion going out, and saying this is not dont fall for this stuff. I love that clip in that pastors courage. We do see more pastors now speaking out. I think there was a period where pastors felt that the best thing they could do was stay out of politics, because there was no way to win. But, we are starting to see more pastors go, no. No man is our savior, but jesus. The scriptures are also very clear that violence is not an option for us. Were able to turn the energy, and pray for those who persecute us. Ive been encouraged if you are a number of christian leaders that are stepping out, and trying to equip their parishioners with this is what the bible teaches us. But, its a slow journey. I do think its going to be a while before they can re caption the Christian Community and get it back to the basics of the gospel. Its an important book. Thank you for writing it, and being with us today. Elizabeth warner is assistant at the United States a permit of Homeland Security during the trumpet ministration. Shes the author of the new book, kingdom of rage. The rise of christian extremism, and the path back to peace. Coming up, its been a rough week. Rough week. America under constant threat co of arrest and prosecutio