38,000 feet that took eight minutes. but no distress call was made. what does that all tell you? >> very little rosemary. i really have difficulties with some of the speculation i'm hearing -- [ inaudible ] they do believe that something catastrophic appeared on the flight deck and the aircraft started a descent. it clearly started a descent. that was obvious from the atc radar. whether the pilots initiated that voluntarily or involuntarily is a big question in my mind. if something catastrophic occurred where a panel you blew out some part of the aircraft and they had decompression, the first thing to do is get down to 10,000 feet or thereabouts. it does look like a controlled descent initially. but if it was a controlled descent, why didn't they say something? i think that point has been made before. we should advise air traffic control not only to let them