listened to the speech last night, you would hear a little bit of barack obama. in 2008. this idea that we're one america, we have to deal with the divisions. and i think biden entered this race as sort of -- with a stranglehold on the obama legacy, but it was a little discord ant. because biden's -- he's older, he's a washington insider. buttigieg has got a lot more of those things and that's why he's always been a great candidate on paper. but because, as mark was pointing out before when we were talking, he's never had more than 8,000 votes in any election. >> right. >> untested. but i do think that he has a message that's obama-like and we're going to see whether he can speak to the alternative. the problem, i don't necessarily accept it's warren against the field right now. >> no. >> because there's so many moving pieces here. for warren i think to get the nomination, she's got to get