4.5, article 5, of course, is the mutual defect pact. that would not be acceptable to russia or nato for that matter. article 4 is consultations. that's not sufficient for ukraine. they've seen with the budapest and minsk agreements that promises don't stand up. we need article 4.5 that provides significant security for ukraine, and president biden is working with nato to thread that needle so zelenskyy can sit across the negotiating table from russia and have confidence that he can make some concessions that will end this violence without undermining the sovereignty and prosperity of this country. >> i would say, too, the walk-back didn't put more clarification on the president's comments. what he meant is that putin couldn't then have power over the region. i'm not sure how that's better. he's still going to be the head of state unless something happens internally. again, it's not the policy of the united states to make that happen. i do think it's a missed