>> councilman, the city is the most history of new york is dinkin's administration. >> i didn't finish. there was more than one thing that was done at that time. and it's important because police officers risk their life every single day to keep us safe. we can't put the only -- the onus completely on them -- >> jumaane, i understand your point. you have made it several times. but listen, i lived here during the dinkins administration. lou is right. it was the most unsafe time. >> i was here too. >> listen, people get upset with rudy giuliani because of the tactics with police officers. the city was never safer than under rudy giuliani, which was, wiz was bill bratton. he brought bill bratton in who brought in stop and frisk and quality of life crime. >> i understand that. but wait a minute. [ overlapping dialog ] >> gets a lot of credit for things that dinkins started on the way out. all i'm saying is we have to have the police department. they have to be able to doo their job. we keep putting the onus of