Transcripts For CNNW CNN Tonight With Don Lemon 20190219

Talk about. It is a mix. Liberals go there. I promise. Conservatives go there. And it is a way for people just to tell their stories about their lives like some of the stories we told here today. And to be able to have some Common Ground without people pointing fingers and getting out there. Faith is very important to me. It helped me get through my dads addiction. Its helped me to work with members actually in the senate on things like foreign aid. Things that i may not agree with some of these members on other things but we have that in common. And i think it is guides my life. I do think everyone should be able to practice what religion they want in this country. Thats the United States of america. Or not practice religion. But for me it is an important part of my life. Thank you. [ applause ] that gentleman is jeremy nadelka from portsmouth. Hes a content director at a publishing company. Sxl thanks, don. Thank you, senator, for being in New Hampshire today. Thanks for swearing that sweater. It makes me feel at home. Thank you. Democrats dont often talk about cutting spending, but our trilliondollar deficits are unsustainable and the progressive tax plans that have been proposed have little chance of passing a divided congress. What would a budget proposed by president klobuchar look like and specifically would you be willing to make tough choices by reducing spending on defense or entitlement programs . Well, thanks very much, jeremy. And i have long been focused on this debt, and im very dismayed by what this administration has done because were basically going to be passing this debt on to others. I dont think this is the time to make some kind of wholesale changes to Social Security or medicare. I think we should be protecting those programs. [ applause ] i do think that there are you asked that first. I want to lead with that. I do think there are things we can do to make medicare more effective. I also think theres things we can do to encourage Quality Health care, something of a always believed in, i know New Hampshire has. Ive been to dartmouth with senator shaheen and know the work thats going on there at the medical studies and at the medical school. But i also think on the Social Security front you could lift the cap and basically put a donut hole in there. And that would help to pay for Social Security. But lets talk about some other things. That republican tax bill. I favored reducing the Corporate Tax some. But it went so low that once it went under 25 every point was 100 billion. You think what that could pay for for Rural Broadband all over this country, which i pledge to do by 2022. Right . You think about what that could do with the debt. And then theres other things i think we should do when it comes to tax reform. Close the carried interest loophole. Right . Bring the Capital Gains rate to the rate that we see for personal tax rates. Do something the Warren Buffett that saves up to 100 billion now. Where he actually pays a rate that is lower than his secretarys. And then one thing i would add to the mix because theres so many things we could do. But one thing alone, comprehensive immigration reform, the bill we had back in 2013 supported by none other than grover norquist. Why . Because it brought the debt down 158 billion. Okay . That is how much it would save. So there are many things we could do that would get us on the right path with regard to our debt. But we shouldnt be doing it on the backs of the people that can least afford it in america including the middle class. [ applause ] so senator, olivia is already the president of College Democrats and she has a question. Thank you very much. Thank you so much for being here, senator. My question is with School Shootings on the rise and last week being the anniversary of the shooting in parkland what is your plan to keep College Students like myself safe on campuses across the country and how is that plan different from the other Democratic Candidates . Thank you so much. And i think we all just were horrified by what just happened in aurora. That shooting. Five innocent people at their workplace. Officers getting shot, putting themselves in the line of fire. And once again, when i saw that i thought to myself, how can this keep happening in america . Like New Hampshire, minnesota is a state that values the outdoors. We value hunting and fishing. And so i come at it from a little different place than some of my colleagues running for this office in that i always look at every proposal and say would this hurt my uncle dick in the deer stand . And i would say that these common sense proposals in front of us do not. I dont see banning assault weapons, right . I dont think that hurts in the deer stand. I dont think background checks, common sense background checks and let me explain here my experience with the president on this. Because i am the lead on a bill involving Domestic Violence and stalking, i was invited to the white house for the meeting he had on guns right after parkland. Remember that . And i sat right across from him. You can see the video. And i counted nine times he said he wanted to see universal background checks, to close that gun show loophole. Nine times. And then the next day he met with the nra and he changed his tune. This shouldnt be happening in our country. I had those families of i had those families from sandy hook in my office the day that we had to tell them that we couldnt pass that bill, that two arated nra legislator senators, manchin and toomey put together. And i remember one of the moms telling meu know what . We know this wouldnt have saved our babies, but it would have reduced domestic hom sxooids would have reduced suicides and thats why were here. And she told me the story of her son whos autistic whatsoever day would point to the picture of his teacher, his school aide, and then he would go to school because he had trouble talking. And as she said in the fire station, and one by one those kids came in, she knew she was never going to see her little boy again. And as she sat there sobbing she thought of everything about him but she also thought of that school aide because she knew that she would never leave his side. And when they found them shot multiple times dead, that teacher had her arms around that little boy. Those parents had the courage to come to washington to advocate for something that wouldnt save their babies. We should join the majority of americans and actually many gun owners in having the courage to pass common sense gun safety legislation. [ cheers and applause ] i want to bring in now Mohammed Saleh whos an engineer from keen. Go ahead. Your first name. Muhammad. Good to see you. Thank you, senator. There is a conservative argument for personal responsibility that is often taken too far and ignores the randomness of life and misfortune. Do you agree with the progressive view that a justice and Equitable Society must be built with empathy for the unfortunate . Senator, can you share a personal realization from your own journey in life where things fell apart and you realized the value of collective empathy . What a great question. Thank you. Well, for me, my daughter is here. Shes 23. Shes somewhere. There she is. And when she was born, she couldnt swallow. She was very sick. We had no idea it was going to happen. And back then the Insurance Companies had a rule in place you get kicked off the insurance in 24 hours. And there she was anyone tensive care. Id been up all night. And they kicked me out of the hospital. And i didnt even know what was going on. So i went to the legislator and worked with i was just a mom, basically. I was not in elected office. And she got better over time. It took years. But i went to the legislature and advocated for one of the first laws in the country guaranteeing new moms and their babies a 48hour hospital stay. And we passed that law. [ applause ] so for me working across the aisle on that and seeing the power of what you could get done and the power of bringing my pregnant friends to the Conference Committee so they outnumbered the insurance lobbyists 2 to 1 and so when the legislators asked when should this bill take effect they all raised thfr hands and said now and it happened. That was when i got hooked on public service. Because i could see that you could make a difference. And that is one example in my life, but i think you know there are these examples in peoples lives all the time where theyre able to get a loan that allows them to go to school, theyre able to get a grant that allows them to go to a great school like this. They are able to have something give them a helping happened like my grandpa, who worked 1,500 feet underground in the mines his whole life, saved money in a coffee can, to send my dad to college and any dad got that opportunity and then went from that hardscrabble mining town to become a journalist. And i stand here today as the granddaughter of an iron ore miner, as the daughter of a teacher and a newspaper man, and as the first woman elected to the United States senate from the state of minnesota and a candidate for president of the United States because of that opportunity that is america. [ applause ] dont sit down, senator. Thank you. Thank you. This whole week youve been living in my head because ive been rereading your book. And the stories you that told tonight were heartfelt and your book is amazing. Its called the senator next door. It starts out about you talking about how people say did i go to school with you . Are you my neighbor . They all think they know me. Yes. And your daughter. And how in large part that pushed you into public service. So thank you for your time. We really appreciate it. Thank you. Did you guys enjoy it . [ cheers and applause ] thank you, New Hampshire. Amy klobuchar. Our thanks as well to saint ansel college. And to our audience and my friend dana bash is back in new york, and shes going to pick up the coverage right now with cnn tonight. Good night, everyone. All right. [ applause ] this is cnn tonight. Im dana bash. Don lemon is going to join us in just a moment. You heard from democratic president ial candidate Amy Klobuchar in cnns town hall. The senior senator from minnesota, the first female senator from the state, answering questions from the audience for well over an hour. I want to dig in right away on the case she made tonight and go straight to New Hampshire. Mark preston is there. Mark, what a fascinating town hall for a number of reasons. First and foremost because unlike a lot of her democratic competitors in the president ial field she really sort of hewed more toward maybe not the middle but certainly didnt bank left, even when she clearly knew that that would potentially benefit her with democratic voters. What were your impressions . No question, dana. She cleared her own path right now through this forest that we see in front of us. And as all these democrats, upwards to perhaps 20 democrats looking at running for president. Amy klobuchar this evening made very, very clear what path shes going to follow. Shes going to follow a more pragmatic path. When asked about the green new deal, something that she said she supports but again couldnt go in for all aspects of it knowing full well that its aspirational, like she had called it before, and she had to backtrack. Same thing on college tuition. Were on a College Campus right now. College debt is saddling so many kids right now but she would not go out and say she thinks there should be Free Education for all for four years. Fwasically, that should be left for folks who really, really need it. And also, dana, in addition to that, we also had her talk about the whole idea when talking about medicare for all, the whole idea about health care. She wouldnt go down that road. She said that she wants to get something done now. Again, a to thely different path from what were seeing from several of the other democrats. Certainly those frontrunners who are looking at running for the democratic nomination, dana. Mark, as youre speaking, were watching senator klobuchar work the crowd, talk to potential voters. Shes obviously not just speaking there, shes campaigning in the first in the nation primary state. Also with me here in new york is New York Times columnist and cnn contributor frank bruni. Frank, mark was just talking about the medicare for all answer, and that was one of the things that really struck me the most about as i mentioned to mark an area where she is different from a lot of her competitors. Watch the interaction on that. Whats been going on in this country is just wrong. Youve got people that still cant afford their health care. You have people that cant afford their prescription drugs. And thats why i believe we have to get to universal health care in this country. [ applause ] and we have to make sure that we build on the work of the Affordable Care act, which by the way was a major improvement. Whats the reservation about supporting medicare for all . Well, i think its something that we can look to for the future, but i want to get action now. And i think the best way we do that is something that we actually wanted to do back when we were looking at the Affordable Care act and we were stopped, was trying to get a public option in there. And that is a way, if you all remember that debate, that is a way to provide a public alternative thats real, even beyond the exchanges, so that we can bring down the rates. And then we can look at other options but we have to start somewhere, and i think we can do that much more immediately. So no medicare for all . It could be a possibility in the future. Im just looking at something that will work now. What was your impression of that, frank . Its interesting. A possibility in the future. Shes not shutting it down. She doesnt want to inflame the left. So shes saying i share your values. And maybe i share your longterm goals. But i want to talk about what we can do in the here and now. She did the same thing with the green new deal. She said thats aspirational, id love to see those things happen and theyre not going to happen at that time taintable. She raidmated practicality. Mark kept using the word pragmatic. In terms of her style, her specifics it was practical, practical, practical, and i think shez drug a contrast with those candidates who seem much more ideological. Shes saying if im going to have a place in this crowded primary, if im going to have a brand, my brand is going to be the common sensical candidate whos not talking about pie in the sky stuff but is talking about what i can do for you maybe in the next four years. And mark preston, one of the things at the end that struck us as we were listening and were going to hear a lot more about, her uncle dick, her uncle dick who was talking about the deer shed, and this is with regard to guns and guns in america. She was very clear about the outrage over massacres. The one recently in aurora and of course last year in parkland, but also was more practical for people who she knows and members of her family in the midwest where shes from in minnesota and other places who still want to keep some of their guns and obviously one of those is her uncle dick. And also was very important where she said it. She said it here in the state of New Hampshire where the ownership of legal guns is very, very high. But again, these are folks who use them primarily for hunting purposes. And thats the culture she grew up in. When she came on the stage tonight she made a point to say im from the north country, very similar to here in New Hampshire, to try to build the kinship in. What was interesting when we tie all these threads together and as frank says practicality. I use pragmatic pl it a. It all comes from the same place. She said one thing tonight that was not very popular but encapsulated everything she was getting at tonight. And thats when we were talking about College Education and free College Education. And don said to her hey, look, were on a College Campus, its not really popular. She said i know, but ive got to tell the truth. And thats not something weve heard certainly from any of the candidates right now who are looking at running. Theyre talk aspirational. Shes talking more practical, more pragmatic. And i should say it was deer stand, not deer shed. If i could read my own handwriting it would be a lot better. Don lemon, i think youre with us now. Great job tonight. Thank you so much. I am. Hi, dana. Thank you very much. Keeping your chair warm. What was your impression . I thought she did very well. I thought she was great. Shes warm. Shes personable. But guess what . Shes real. Shes a truth teller. And i think from being here in New Hampshire thats what people like about her, is that she is not fighting for the far left wing of the party. And so shes somewhere shes someone who is a liberal but also moderate on certain issues and i dont think will take the party to the socialist side. That is my impression of it. But just for the way she did tonight, i thought she did a fantastic job. She answered every single question directly, and if she didnt then i had a response to it to make sure she answered. One or two times i had to make sure she got back on track, but she did. And she answered when the young man said hey, what about free college . She said no, im not for fouryear free college. To have the nerve to say that on a fouryear College Campus really takes, you know . Gumption to be able to do that. And don, one of the many sort of memorable moments of the night there that you had with senator klobuchar was when she was asked about her management style, which is code for the fact that there have been reports about the fact that she doesnt treat her staff well, that shes tough on her staff. Lets listen. First of all, you have to know i love my staff. A number of them from the campaign are here right now. Ive had the same people have worked for me for years. My chief of staff has worked for me for six years. My state director for seven years. My Campaign Manager for 14 years. So you need to know that thats my management. Am i a tough boss sometimes . Yes. Have i pushed people too hard . Yes. But i have kept expectations for myself that are very high. Ive asked my staff to meet those same expectations. And that, the big point for me is i want the country to meet High Expectations. Because we dont have that going now. She was obviously ready for that question and, you know, was very clear and deliberate in how she was going to give the answer. She hasnt shied away from that question. As a matter of fact, she talks about it. Shes willing to talk about it. Shes willing to expand upon it. Thats one of those questions that people ask a lot, right . Weve been hearing about it. Maybe some people want to call it a salacious question. But its definitely the intriguing question that people wanted us to ask tonight, or wanted to ask her tonight i should say because this was a town hall about the people who were in the audience. So they asked the question. She answered it. I followed up with her. She said i have High Expectations and sometimes im maybe a little too hard on people. So i followed up with that, and she talked about her High Expectations and how those High Expectations got her to the point where she is now and shes hoping it will eventually get her to the point where shes president of the United States. And then she answered head on about hey, listen, maybe i was a little bit too tough sometimes but im learning. But nobodys perfect. So she was not afraid of that question. Really not afraid of any question here at this town hall. And frank bruni, at a time when democrats out there are so hungry for a fighter, theyre hungry for somebody who is maybe practical, maybe can get things done, but also somebody whos not going to shy away from anything or anybody, that might p be the worst thing in the world to be asked that over and over again. No, its not. The questions going to keep coming back. Shell have to answer that again. And i think if she gets deep into the primaries and has some success, she ticked off prior places of employment. You and i both know journalists are going to go there and see if the stories exist there that came from her senate staff and some of those piece thats have been out already. But yes, to the extent she can say im tough, i have high standards, i fight, i think thats good, as long as she can also remain as upbeat as she was tonight. I thought the word practical as i watched her. She was so upbeat from beginning toned except when she got somber in personal moments like when she asked the question from the woman whod been widowed by the opioid crisis. I think people love a warrior if its that phrase we use so often, happy warrior. I think she came across as a happy warrior tonight. And mark preston, let me get back to you. Dana, if i could jump in. Of course. Two things. Let me talk about that. Because people here in this audience they wanted someone strong. I think some of the questions we got is we want to know if shes Strong Enough to take on donald trump. Because they dont ant him to be president again and theyd rather someone like her be president. And i think within that they got that answer, maybe sometimes i have too tough but im definitely not too tough to take on the president of the United States, the man who is currently the president of the United States. So i think that, you know, within that within that question about being tough on her staff and all of that i think that she played it well and there is some truth to having the courage and having the strength to be able to stand up to donald trump, especially when it comes to doing a debate, right . If she ever gets on the debate stage with him, able to debate him. And then once they get closer to an election. And mark preston, weve been talking about her not going pandering, frankly, as much to the people on the left of her party as others have, whether its their ideology or its the way they think the Democratic Party has gone and therefore they should go that way in order to get the democratic nomination. She didnt do that maybe in a place like New Hampshire where there are certain liberals but its an open primary. Its not such a bad thing. But it might actually hurt her in other places where the electorate really is even more progressive than weve seen in the past. And you know, youre looking at iowa, for example, which is right next door. And its the state that she thinks that has to do very well in, we think she has to do very well in. Shes playing the whole midwestern card, the hard values, the immigrant farmer, the im not afraid to get a callus on my hand or perhaps give a sharp word if thats what its going to take to get the job done. But having said that as well, i do think that she does talk in a way that is able to not necessarily inflame the left, doesnt necessarily bring them to her side but it doesnt necessarily inflame the left. And i have to tell you just anecdotally two people reached out to me that were watching this tonight. Proactively. I didnt ask for their opinion. They both tend to be a little more on the conservative side. And they both sent texts to me that said klobuchar for president. I have to say, one of them spelled her name wrong, but it just shows you that people dont understand what she is. But who she is right now its a long name, mark. I just think of us being on no, really. And just think of it this way, dana, as were talking about the next two years, were on a soup everyhighway right now and we have a lot of people in the left lane all vying to be out front and theres going to be a car crash at . Point and one of thems going to get out. Amy klobuchar and a few others are going to be farther over to the right. Theres going to be less competition. Amy klobuchar hopes she can get out of that pack. And for the record, people from new england like mark preston might be able to spell her name but they say it a little different than they do in minnesota. Klobucha. Exactly. Its klobuchar. Exactly. Final thought. My final thought is klobuchar. I think there are members of her family who pronounce it klobuchar, but i got a deep immersion listen in how to say her name. My final thoughts, i think mark preston is right. I think a lot of people in the Democratic Party are fighting for the Left Progressive lane of that party and i think she is in a position, she has positioned herself to be the person who can maybe come right through the middle, right . And actually be a dark horse in this election. All right, everybody. Thank you. Shes still here, by the way, dana. Im sure. Theres like a mini town hall if you can see that going on and shes answering questions. Listen, shes been out on the campaign trail all day. I said you must be exhausted. She said no, actually im energized by this and im so glad to see all the folks out here in their sweaters. Its cold and it snowed here today. So there you go. Don lemon, thank you. Our team there as always hit it out of the park. Appreciate it. Everybody there. Everybody stay with us. Because we are breaking news. A doj official tells cnn that Deputy Attorney general Rod Rosenstein is expected to leave the Justice Department in mid march. Well talk about that next. Tmobile will do the math for you. Join tmobile and get two phones plus two unlimited plans for just one hundred bucks a month. If your adventure keeps turning into unexpected bathroom trips you may have overactive bladder, or oab. Ohhhh. Enough already we need to see a doctor. Ask your doctor about myrbetriq® mirabegron . It treats oab symptoms of urgency, frequency, and leakage. Its the first and only oab treatment in its class. Myrbetriq may increase blood pressure. Tell your doctor right away if you have trouble emptying your bladder or have a weak urine stream. Myrbetriq may cause serious allergic reactions like swelling of the face, lips, throat or tongue, or trouble breathing. If experienced, stop taking and tell your doctor right away. Myrbetriq may interact with other medicines. Tell your doctor if you have liver or kidney problems. Common side effects include increased blood pressure, common cold or flu symptoms, sinus irritation, dry mouth, urinary tract infection, bladder inflammation, back or joint pain, constipation, dizziness, and headache. Need some help managing your oab symptoms along the way . Ask your doctor if myrbetriq is right for you, and visit myrbetriq. Com to learn more. Itin 30,000 precision parts. Or it isnt. Its inspected by mercedesbenz factorytrained technicians. Or it isnt. Its backed by an unlimited mileage warranty, or it isnt. For those who never settle, its either mercedesbenz certified preowned, or it isnt. The mercedesbenz certified preowned sales event. Now through february 28th. Only at your authorized mercedesbenz dealer. Breaking news. Tonight a doj official tells cnn Rod Rosenstein is expected to leave the Justice Department in mid march. To be clearw a new attorney general william barr now in place its pretty standard for an a. G. To pick his or her own deputy. What is not standard, however, is for any Deputy Attorney general to basically be a household name, caught up in some of the most explosive and tumultuous events of the Trump Presidency to date. And rosensteins departure will come just as former acting fbi director Andrew Mccabe is out with a new book where he claims that rosenstein offered to wear a wire while meeting with the president and several other things. Joining me to discuss that is phil mudd and jack quinn. Thank you so much, gentlemen, for joining me this evening. Jack, let me start with you. 60 minutes last night Andrew Mccabe made some pretty stunning revelations. I want you to listen to mccabe on rosenstein talking about what it was like just after President Trump fired james comey. Deputy attorney general offered to wear a wire into the white house. He said i never get searched when i go into the white house, i could easily wear a recording device, they wouldnt know it was there. Now, he was not joking. He was absolutely serious. And in fact, he brought it up in the next meeting we had. Now, mccabe also claims that rosenstein brought up the idea of invoking the 25th amendment to remove the president from office. Jack quinn, what is your reaction as a former white House Counsel listening to mccabe talk about the way rosenstein behaved in those days . Its pretty frightening. It gives you a sense of just how concerned these seniorlevel officials were about what was going on in our government. Lets put this in context. At this point the president of the United States had gone through an election in which there were concerns about russia having interfered. The Intelligence Community in our country was unanimous in the conclusion that russia had malign intentions toward us and in fact did interfere in the election. The president chose to ignore that, in fact deny it. Given the choice between standing with american intelligence officials and vladimir putin, he chose putin. He fired the head of the fbi, james comey, and then proceeded into the oval office and literally yukked it up with the Russian Foreign minister and ambassador. I mean, it was an embarrassment to the country. Putting myself i cant possibly put myself in their shoes but im certain had i been in their shoes or been in the room with them i would have been enormously alarmed about what was going on, about what the president was doing. Now, i will also say that neither of them really have read the 25th amendment because it was not something that could be invoked in that in the circumstances. And its certainly implausible given that it would require almost unanimity well, a majority of the cabinet and the vice president. It was sort of a crazy thought. And its sort of unclear if it got that far. But on that note, phil mudd, rosenstein at the Justice Department, they released a statement, very carefully worded statement on that saying the following. The Deputy Attorney general again rejects mr. Mccabes recitation of events as inaccurate and factually incorrect. The Deputy Attorney general never authorized any reporting that mr. Mccabe references. Thats just one. Lets just start there, phil mudd. Thats not a denial. Didnt authorize. And also said he didnt on the 25th amendment didnt see that it was necessary and again didnt authorize it. Didnt say i didnt talk about it. Im with jack. This makes me uncomfortable but for different reasons. Look, when youre in tough situations in washington, d. C. , i served at the cia and the fbi, the hotter it gets in the kitchen the cooler the cook better be. During the comey investigation the fbi investigation of hillary clinton, the Inspector General at the fbi said bluntly, comey mishandled that, he got hot in a hot kitchen. I watched that conversation about wires and the 25th amendment. Whether or not anything was authorized, and thats obviously the language you just spoke about from the Deputy Attorney general, the question is beyond coming back from the oval office and memorializing a conversation in a memo, which i think is perfectly appropriate, a conversation about secretly wiretapping the president with a wire from the Deputy Attorney general or finding people who support the 25th amendment in the cabinet i thought was over the top. It sounds to me like people again, like the comey investigation, when things got hot they stayed hot. You cant run an organization like that in difficult times. And jack, lets just talk about Andrew Mccabes credibility. The white house responded to his claim saying he has no credibility. The Justice Department Inspector General did find that mccabe lied. So do they have a point . Maybe he doesnt have total credibility here. That maybe he shouldnt be believed. I dont know if the two things if one follows the other, dana. And look, im not trying to defend him in terms of the beef the Inspector General has with him. Clearly a conclusion was arrived at by the Inspector General, himself an honoring person who said that on three separate occasions Andrew Mccabe misled people in the Inspector Generals office. That is a serious accusation and one that cant be just brushed aside lightly. But again, i think the context is terribly important here. Andrew mccabe is out of a job. Hes gone. Hes not in the government anymore. Rosenstein is leaving. But remember and again, the context. These guys were concerned that the president of the United States might be for one reason or another under the influence of not just a foreign power but a malign foreign power. One who was our enemy. And that must have just really set off alarm bells. And i can think in those circumstances that did they overreact to theres no evidence they overreacted. But were they obviously awfully concerned . Sure, they were. And i think all of us should be concerned. Particularly given what we now know about activities were going on during this time period, about the trumps building a tower in moscow. We now have roger stone under indictment beginning to bring wikileaks and russia closer together with the trump campa n campaign. These things were setting off larm bells then and theyre only now beginning to set off similar alarm bells you dont think they overreacted, but phil mudd, you think they did. I think it was appropriate for them to look at the situation and say if we see facts, for example, a conversation with the president where hes talking about replacing the fbi director because of the russian investigation, those facts should be memorialized in a document. Thats what jim comey did at that time, perfectly appropriate. But then taking that a step forward and saying what do we think about the 25th amendment and whats the fbis role in foshlly looking at cabinet members who might support putting in place the 25th amendment, i think thats out of line. If that happened, it should not have. Jack quinn, phil mudd, thank you so much for joining me this evening. Appreciate it. Thank you. With a regard number of women running for office and winning, are we at a Tipping Point for women in politics or are women still facing a different litmus test on the trail than their male opponents . Stay with us. Audible members know listening has the power to change us, make us better people. With audible, you get more. Two Audible Originals exclusive titles you cant find anywhere else. Plus a credit good for any audiobook and exclusive fitness and wellness programs. All with our commitment free guarantee and always ad free. The most inspiring minds. The most compelling stories. The best place to listen. Download audible and start your free trial today. The democratic president ial field is far from complete, but as of now there is a big theme amid the candidates. Women. Senator amy cloak charr was asked at tonights town hall about the changes female candidates face. Knowing the misogynist history of our country and the previous smear attacks against women candidates, what is your plan to break through the systematic antifeminist comments or attacks when the bar has been set so high for women and set so very low for male candidates . That is called [ applause ] good question, huh . That is called a loaded question. Someone once said, and i agree with part of this but not all of it, that women candidates should speak softly and carry a big statistic. Okay. So i think you know i dont always speak softly. Its been established. But i think what you find in a lot of these women and theyve had to prove themselves in different ways. They have to carry a big statistic, which means be accountable and show what theyre doing. Joining me now, two women who know what its like to run for office. Former democratic michigan governor Jennifer Granholm and former gop congresswoman Claudia Tenney of new york. Thank you, both of you, for joining me at this hour. Governor granholm, i want you to look at this list. Senator klobuchar, as i mentioned, is among a Record Number of women running for president. You were the first female attorney general, first female governor of michigan. Back then there were fewer women running for office. What kind of challenges will these women or are they already facing that the men just dont . Well, i mean, they face challenges. There is no doubt. All you have to do is look at their twitter feeds to know that there is still rampant sexism out there. But heres the thing. I so love Amy Klobuchars response to this, that women should speak softly and carry a big statistic although she doesnt speak softly. I think were just in a whole new realm. Im so excited that these young women who have run for congress and have won, they are fearless. They are not allowing the sexist tropes that are appearing in their social media, you know, to define them. Theyre not victims. They are fierce warriors. And thats the thing that i love. They call them out and they move on. And theyre going to get stuff done. So to me, unlike when i ran, when i ran, first of all, you certainly wouldnt talk about it. But you also you didnt talk about the fact you were a woman . No. Well, i mean, because you could kind of see it. But you didnt talk about your family. You were told dont bring your kids out because theyre all going to be worried about whether you can hold this office and take care of your family. So im so glad that times have changed. Gosh. Thats amazing. Im sorry, that was explicit, like dont bring your kids out on stage because its going to remind them that youre a woman . I would say especially for me, because i when i ran for attorney general now, i happen to be married to a saint. My husband was willing to take the family lane. But my youngest, when i ran for attorney general, was only 10 months old. So everybody was saying oh, please, do not, you know, do not emphasize them, dont put them in your literature. Of course you dont hide it if youre asked about it. And you know, they showed up at parades. Only so often, though, because theres only so many times you can take kids on parades. But bottom line is it wasnt something you would emphasize like a man would do, to hold them up. But i do think times are different. Amy klobuchar had her daughter there today and she used the story of her birth to further the notion of compassion. So im so glad that those days are over. And congresswoman tenney, we talked about senator klobuchar being asked tonight about reports shes too tough on her staff. You dont really hear these kinds of stories about men. Its not that they dont exist. Youve served. You probably watched men and women and how they interacted with their staff. Why do you think we tend to hear this about women and not men . I do think there still is a double standard although as a woman running in upstate new york i had to fight against, you know, a culture that was a little different than maybe in the cities. But i did find even in and i think the governor and i are from the same generation. Its a lot different now than it was then. It was a lot more difficult. I was a partner in my law firm and it was difficult. I mean, i remember my First Partnership meeting i got a memo on my desk that said, meeting. Noon. All the men. Conference room. And i was like, does that mean me too . So it is challenging. And look, we have to be tough. And often women are looked at negatively because theyre strong and theyre tough. And ive had to fight against a lot of obstacles in upstate new york and how so . As the first woman to hold the seat. First of all, i had to fight against my own party as a republican. I was never endorsed by the Republican Party until 2018. The only time ever. So i served three terms in the state assembly and i also served in congress. So i had to, you know, fight to win those against men as with the. But i dont like to focus so much on that. I do think that sometimes its unfair. But i also served in the state assembly which i thought was a lot more sexist, to be honest with you, than even congress. I think there was a different level of leadership in congress for sure. But i think women are women are really setting a new stage now. Its not that its easier. You always have to struggle. Politics is very difficult. Its a very tough arena. Theres a lot of bullying, whether youre a woman or a man. Theres a lot going on. Theres a lot of difficult campaigning and a lot of difficult issues. And i think women need to be tougher. I think thats part of the formula. I would never subscribe to victimhood. And thats one thing my dad and my mom would always emphasize, be who you are, be strong, and dont feel sorry for yourself. Just keep fighting. Such a fascinating conversation. Can i were going to take a quick break. Okay. Sure. And were going to get to whatever youre going to say on the other side. Hows that for a tease . You want to know what Jennifer Granholm is going to say and the congresswoman. Stay with us. Really good. Your favorite restaurants now it doesnt matter dash. Where you are. It doesnt matter what youre hungry for. It doesnt even matter how many you are. Restaurants come to you. Delicious at your door. Download doordash. First order, no delivery fee. Were back with former michigan governor, Jennifer Granholm and Claudia Tenney. Governor granholm, you have the floor. What were you going to say the last segment . You raised Amy Klobuchar and the treatment of staff. I thought her answer was really good. Its not something often men are called on to respond to, right . Donald trump had 86 or 83 staff turnover. Were talking about that. But its not about his being tough. When shes asked about her toughness and she says, im going to be tough. Im going to hold high standards for america, i think, you know, that is something unusual for a woman who is running for office. And i think it will end up, if she can continue to answer that in a way where her staff supports her like, i got off the phone with a former student of mine who was a staffer of hers, and says, she has grit. And she made us all better. Yes, she was demanding. But she made us all better. I thought that was good. Can i tell you a quick, quick story about anne richards, the former governor of texas. She came to see me when i was governor. I haed allmen in the house, and the Supreme Court and the attorney general. She said to me, in her great accent in her white hair and her pearls. She said, jennifer, are those boys giving you the blues . I said, its terrible. She said, honey, when they do that, you sit up and smile and give them the finger. Did you do that . Good well, in my own way. Okay. Pretty good advice. Congresswoman, there was a story that really struck the team here, entitled the end of shame. I want to read part of it. Residing in shame isnt really a thing anymore. Hanging on for dear life and hoping everyone will forget about your scandal is the new thing. Weve really seen this on both sides of the aisle. Virginia democrats, lieutenant north northam, fairfax on the other side. Steve king, jim jordan, the list goes on and on. Why are these people still in office . And does it strike you for the most part that were talking about guys . I think im going to Say Something thats going to surprise you. As a lawyer yeah. I think everybody is excintid to due process and often, theres a lot of mud being slung in politics and against a lot of people. And although we dont have all of the facts on some of these things, some of them look terrible. But until somebody has really been convicted, especially for ill give you a great example. When i was a member of the new york state assembly, sheldon silver, it was revealed he used taxpayer money to cover up Sexual Harassment claims. I called for his resignation. And everyone was horrified. But i called for his resignation as speaker, a role that we as members have the opportunity to vote for. But because he did not get convicted of a crime, he did not need to step down as a member of the state assembly. So, eventually, he was moved to his role as just a member. But i think we have to be very careful in using these things as a club. And some things are really bad behavior. And ill give you a great example. Our attorney general schneiderman, i rarely call for a resignation before due process. But there was just so much in that situation and so much in terms of the Sexual Harassment nature of it and really an abuse of power for someone who is serving as our attorney general and our top Law Enforcement officer. So, yes, there are some cases where, i think we can rush to judgment. I think, you know, there are often times these cases dont turn out to always be true. But i think you have to give people the benefit of the doubt in a country like ours. And we are also, you know, a country of imperfect people who run for office. And sometimes people are accused of things that simply arent true. And weve seen that in the media over and over. You think its a change for good. Governor, last 20 seconds. Whats your view . You know, i think i do think its the governor is, you know, hes saying hes going to do Governor Northam is doing a tour, highlights and using his role. To be honest with you, its probably politics. Virginia is a oneterm governor state. He probably figures, where else am i going . Im going to stay in this position. Thats a decision he has to make and the voters have to make. But the voters dont get to weigh in again. He didnt commit a crime. He has bad behavior. And sometimes, i just think that, theres a narrow just a narrow interpretation where i think we need to be more subjective when we deal with each casebycase basis. Governor granholm . Yeah. Here is what i would say. In a lot of the Sexual Harassment cases, in fact, there was an article that tallied 30 state legislative cases from 2017. Of the 30, 29 this is back to the issue of men and women. 29 were men. A lot of them related to Sexual Harassment. They ended up stepping down. There was one woman the mayor of tennessee, of nashville, tennessee, she stepped down. When people feel a sense of shame, that impels them that should impel them to step down and then make amends. I hate the word shame. Its my catholic background. It makes me think of sin and hell and all of that. And theres a moment of not just sin and shame but also reconciliation and forgiveness. And so, the question is, do you do the forgiveness inside of office or outside of office . Those are questions were going to be grappling with through 2020. Jennifer granholm, congresswoman tenney, thank you so much for joining me. It was a great conversation. Thank you. And thank you for watching. And thank you for watching. Our coverage continues. Ome ler,. One of the windiest places in america. And home to three bp wind farms. In the offchance the wind ever stops blowing here. The lights can keep on shining. Thanks to our natural gas. A smart partner to renewable energy. Its always ready when needed. Or. Not. At bp, we see possibilities everywhere. To help the world keep advancing. Little things can be a big deal. Thats why theres otezla. Otezla is not a cream. Its a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. With otezla, 75 clearer skin is achievable. Dont use if youre allergic to otezla. It may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. Otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. Tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. Some people taking otezla reported weight loss. Your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. Upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur