i discovered that i did not ever ask you some of your family, i know your spouses, and you have children. so, tell us, i begin with you, dale. >> i am married to debbie, witherspoon. she is on sabbatical right now. working on her doctorate of ministry, i think, in the area of engaging in the face of the public square. i have two sons, teenagers. wesley is a sine teenager. and his brother younger brother, justice, is a freshman. i also have a brother and a sister that live in the sacramento area and they cousin that lives here in oakland. i am a nato san franciscan. >> great to have weston with us, he's in the audience. >> good to have you with us. and jim? >> karen and i, my wife have been married 41 years, we have three adult kids. erin, who is a physical therapist, kristen, who is a registered nurse, and ethan, who is completing his program to be a journeyman electrician and the elevated county electrical worker's union, and we have four grandsons. daschle dayton henry and hudson. my pastor, jim, but my grandsons i am hop pop. >> that is good. that is good. >> well, it is good to have you both. we have a before, but i didn't realize i want to give the audience your background, a relationship with family and so forth. so, i think that is very important. before we go on our breaks soon, one of the two top stories that you think are important from last year. let's go with you, jim? >> well, certainly the relationship of the evangelical christianity, a white evangelical christianity, their embrace of the president. their seemingly unfailing embrace of the president, no matter what, is a story that needs to be examined and questioned. >> 81%, i think, still. >> he seems to fight for their causes. and regardless of his ability to tell the truth, his absolutely immoral immigration policies, his misogyny, there seems to be very little that will separate him from his base, and his religious base. >> that christianity today article, they seem to push back on him. >> mark says, come on, trust matters, how can we trust this person? and, a lot of the leading evangelical voices came back and said, yeah, but look what he has done for us, the judges he has appointed, his standing to be antiabortion. this is the best president we have ever had. >> dale? >> i think along the same lines, impeachment. how much time has been spent dealing with the issues of impeachment. thinking about dr. martin luther king, and talking about how important character is, and so, it seems in this impeachment we are just overlooking character and immorality. just dealing with the policies. so, this impeachment going to go on into 2020. i think this is taking away from our government officials caring for the people in our nation, the marginalized, those are the are homeless, so, i think the impeachment has been a big story taking up the news. >> thank you, both. we will be exploring further in the next segment. i am so glad to that you are both here. >> good to be here. >> please join us. with dale witherspoon of the methodist church, and jim hopkins of lakeshore baptist. welcome back to mosaic. >> the historian, doris kern, good one. he has said that leadership is five qualities. humility, empathy, resilience. self-awareness, and self reflection. i think my colleagues have these qualities, and so, i am glad that they are here with us. dale and jim, tell us a little bit more about some of the stories this past year that i thought were important to our society and world. >> i was reflecting on our conversation last year as we ended the year, and i think a story that continues in the news is the shootings. the mass shootings. and i think it has been intensified when we are having more shootings and places of worship. and so, it seems like not a week goes by. we just had the shooting in texas the other day, and it is bringing into question, whethe parishioners should be carrying firearms of the churches are not. so, that is still disturbing, as it. is becoming the new normal. >> it seems like every-- from synagogues, two mosques, two christian communities. >> every praise place of worship, every faith. >> i don't just don't understand the tribalism that goes on to create that violence. it is very prevalent. >> yes. >> in society and the world. what about you, jim? >> certainly that is a very important story, the anti- semitism is an ancient evil that seems to be experiencing a resurgence right now, we start with the shootings in pittsburgh last year, and the synagogue and put away this year, and the standings at the hanukkah celebrants in new york. and just the whole relationship, between religion, and violence. it is very complex relationship. you would think that religion would be a clear voice against violence. >> but we also embrace it in a lot of ways. so, that is the next story. sexual violence that continues. in the church, and in the name of the church. the perpetrated by church leaders on vulnerable members of their congregation. certainly, the catholics have received the most of the news, but the baptist church. >> number one. >> certainly it is not the southern baptist, not just southern baptist. >> true. >> it is our whole theology that tends to elevate mail over female. it really makes us very vulnerable to that sort of abuse and ability to address the abuse. >> and united methodist, with our united bracing of the lgbtq community is a major issue with us, and we still block people,marriage , to being open and inclusivity. it is a huge issue for us. >> it is a very huge issue, especially general conference of your 2019, a special general conference was on one issue, and the vote came to the traditional plan, which was to retain the language of not welcoming lgbtq i a person's into the church, continuing to have our clergy brought up on charges, and trials, so, as we enter into 2020, january 1, some of those laws, prohibitions, we will see if we are going to have more trials, there is a movement to resist, to resist in all kind of ways, say, no, all folks are welcome in the church, when we have our general conference in 2020 in minnesota. we will see how this falls out, and if we can change the language, or if there is going to be a split in the united message methodist church. >> that is my next question, the tremendous struggle over the last 40 years, and now, even here, the possibility of a split. >> lots of talk about this affiliation. how do you retain your property? what is that going to look like? that will be a huge conversation with the united methodist a nomination. >> what about you, jim, in your church? >> welcome our church, the baptist church, we were disfellowshipped back in 1996 by our regional body, because we were charter members of the association of welcoming and affirming baptists and a little organization that said there is a place for sexual minorities, their friends and allies in the church. that was a hard period of time. i wouldn't want to go through it again. neither what i trade it for anything. but those struggles, those questions, those battles are addressed week in and week out on congregations large and small across the united states, and it seems less a matter of pronouncement from on high, but each congregation coming to accept the truth that in our pews, in our membership, in our communities, the beloved community, there is a wide range of healthy sexual expression. >> i was at the bookstore the other day and i saw this little book on the history of notre dame, and we know that it was almost destroyed in april, and the writer took a little bit of the history, i didn't know that it was built way back in the 1100, took 100 years to build. men and women built and participated in it. i think, since 1803 it was the first time it didn't have a service. >> i read that. >> so, that struck me as one of the major stories. >> notre dame is one of the major symbols of the christian faith, globally. for it to see the smoke billowing up, that was-- >> it was destroyed. >> that was an attack >> we are coming to the end of the segment. anything else before we close and come back? anything else? >> certainly, we need to talk about immigration policy. >> immigration policy. >> climate change. >> separation? that immigration issue. >> okay. >> thank you for being with us. >> please join us in our next segment as we look at some further stories that impact of our lives. let's go with you, jim. >>bos year has en gentleman in moscow. it is just a sweep of philosophy, and russian history, and human interactions, and technician. life in back row america is also a very good insight into what is happening in a lot of lives across the united states of america. >> i didn't know that last one. that's pretty good. and you, dale? >> right now in our prayer ministry on saturday morning, we are reading another book written by black, robert mclaren, and it is called naked spirituality. and we are into chapter 12 now, and it has been a powerful book, chapter 12, some words that stick out, how we need to be able to say i'm sorry. how to live with honesty and humility and compassion. and i think that that is something that the leadership of our nation is lacking in humility, compassion, as we are leading and causing more harm. so, this naked spirituality is helping us take a look at our own souls, and how we have that walk of faith. >> mclaren does a great job. so many things. >> he does. we just finished reading walking by faith. that was another excellent book. >> i brought a few also. anything by roy is outstanding. the franciscan priest. jared chester. anything by her. now is the time, she talks about being the spiritual profit, it is open to all of us. talking to strangers, matthew clyde well. malcolm gladwell. excellent. and this other one, that is new, the color compromise. like to speak. as he talks about how racism and slavery influenced 30 years. how you recommend. >> now, we talked about, before closing, the lasting immigration, and we talked about climate change. we are going to talk about either? >> we were mentioning, with immigration column comes this whole terrible practice of family separation. how can that be morally, spiritually justified in any way? any shape? any form? regardless of party, regardless of background. taking babies from their parents? come on. that is-- that should unite folks from across the religious spectrum. >> sure. true. >> i think one of those things you are looking at, folks that are going back 20, 30 years, to find out that they had a misdemeanor or some other charges, and using that as a basis to separate their kids, when they have lived a clean life, a decent life, a hard- working life. so, just a separation of families is just unconscionable. >> some of my memories say lee's don't talk about politics from the pulpit. and you address that in an article, jim. >> i wrote an article about how christmas really is profoundly political. there's taxes, there's empires. there is housing shortages. there's immigration. christmas is political, and it is about the uplift of people. that is political. it is not partisan, it is not about anyone party, anyone set of policies, but politics is an ongoing negotiation of how we are going to live in a society that thrives. as such, politics are profoundly religious. >> thank you for that. greta? >> greta, climate change. standing up for the climate, just standing up for the climate, and it's it is an intergenerational movement. >> 16, she has >> the consciousness of america , even working with someone like jane fonda and lily tomlin that are also out there on fridays and so, we are kpix 5 say this is a generational issue. we are trying to say save the nation, trying to save the environment what the scriptures say, and a child shall lead them? it was similar to last year with the parkland shooting, there is a high school student. and so, our young people are passionate, passionate about this country. >> that is right. >> 7 million people in this place, because of climate change on the environment. and we know we have amazon. antarctica, all of that. all of the fires. >> the fires. >> especially, here in california. all of these wildfires, the kincaid, the geddes. >> that has really sparked us to really try to address this in decades to come, because there will be millions of people in this place and we don't address this now. we have one more segment. and that will close us out. hopefully a word of inspiration, which is what we truly try to do here. >> amen. >> thank you. please join us in our last segment with dale winners spoon and jim hopkins. a composer recently said that tradition is not worshiping ashes. but preserving the fire. and i see that, i will hear that as the fire, the spirit of hope, joy. love. this is what my colleagues bring to this segment. i am thankful for them. as we close this segment, let's say a few more words about our hopes for them, the future of this 2020. >> i was watching a comedy special on tiffany haddish the other day, and she was trying to do some teaching, and as she was closing out her segment, she talked about babies crying, and how, when a baby cries, people go to that baby, and they either hug that baby, to change the baby, they feed the baby, they give the baby love, and she was saying we have a lot of folks today that are hurting, adults that are hurting, and we want to institutionalize and criminalize, and instead of going to them, and letting them know that they are loved, giving them a hug, paying attention to them, and i think, for me, we are becoming a more individualistic society, and we need to reclaim our communal roots. we are all in this together. we still don't know our neighbors. we have locks on it, and gated communities. so, why are we fearing folks, instead of understanding that we are living together? so, but encourage folks to get to know your neighbors on the right and the left and across the street. >> talking to strangers. >> talking to strangers. be a community, bna community. we seem to come together in times of natural disasters, fire, earthquakes. but why do we have to wait for a natural disaster, instead of just making that a part of our everyday living? getting to know someone new? >> thank you for that, jim. >> i love that, the power of community, especially the power of beloved community. and as we talked about the top news stories of the year, we talked about the failings of religious communities, those are well documented, but the enduring, life-giving power of faith communities. that also needs to be lifted up and noted. this is airing on january 12th, it is the liturgical calendar. the baptism of jesus. he stepped in the waters and said i want to be in that number, that is a community i want to be with. and to celebrate the power of our communities, to mitigate against loneliness, to find help, to seek justice, there are religious communities of christian, jewish, muslim, buddhist, across and around the globe and across the country that are doing wonderful things. and are bringing people together to create the beloved community. >> that is wonderful, my friends, that's why i keep inviting you back. keep that spirit and tell us again where your churches are, so people can come visit you and worship with you. let's go with you, dale. >> the easter united methodist church, 3911 cutting boulevard, richmond, california, we have services 8:00 a.m., sunday school at 9:15 and 10: 30 worship services. plenty of room for you. >> jim? >> 35:34, lake shore and mandana in oakland. sunday worship at 10:00, bible study at 11:30, sunday. 6:30, tuesday evening, and 10:30, wednesday mornings. we try to live out the beloved community, and welcome for all. >> amen. >> amen. >> i hope you have been with us and inspired by these two great pastors and all that they bring. we brought so many people this year, entertainers and doctors, and activists, of many levels, and i thought of toni morrison. toni morrison, the african- american woman who won the nobel prize of literature in 1993, and she said that great literature belonged with great jazz music, as three qualities. memory, history, and imagination. >> yes. use our imagination, as well as understanding our history, and our memories keep us active and alive. thank you for joining us. i am ron swisher. oakland is using traffic barriers to put the brakes on sex workers on one of the streets. we track the initial results this week. and 18-wheeler gets part of an east bay sideshow. the chaos that broke out in one busy oakland street will be addressed. snow hangs around the bay area as people in other parts of the state are fighting conditions they have not seen in decades. thank you for joining us. let's start with qu