Not remotely. They like it being closed. Theres no change in your position . Absolutely not. Another crisis looms on the horizon. We are not going to pass a clean debt limit. We are happy to negotiate on anything. Im ready for the phone call. This is playing with fire. When is this going to end . If i knew, id tell you. Call me, call me, call me any, any time, call me day six of the Government Shutdown. Hopes for bringing it to an end were pretty much darked this morning when Speaker Boehner showed he is completely willing to budge on the gops hostage demands. Boehner told Abcs George Stephanopoulos hes sticking with the shutdown strategy. Even though hes got no clue at all where its going. Youve tried this several times. It hasnt worked. So theres no change in your position . Absolutely not. When is this going to end . If i knew, id tell you. Thats what i call leadership. With no clear path to ending this impasse, the house resumes tomorrow afternoon to continue voting on piecemeal spending bills. Yet another sign the republicans have no real strategy. They just think theyre winning. Meanwhile, boehner has no plans to bring the senates clean continuing resolution to the floor for a vote. Heres what he told stephanopoulos. There are not the votes in the house to pass a clean cr. Actually, boehner, the white house is calling your bluff. Press secretary jay carney tweeted, quote, the speaker says there are not enough votes to pass a clean cr. If hes right, why not prove it . Justvote. Joining me now, democratic congresswoman Sheila Jackson lee of texas. Congresswoman, thank you so much for joining me. Karen, thank you for having me this afternoon. I wanted to get your take on this issue about the whip count for the clean cr. I mean, you saw earlier this morning Speaker Boehner saying there are not the votes. But by most tallies, there do seem to be at least, if youve got roughly 200 democrats i think it is who signed the letter. Theres a good 20, 22, 24, i think, republicans that i think by most counts would support a clean cr. So why can Speaker Boehner not just move this forward . I think the Republican Leadership should realize that its not about them. Its about the American People. I came to my district last night. Im flying back this afternoon. Just to be with constituents. Doctors, people in the arts, laborers, catholic charity. Today my district celebrated 70 years, people who are used to helping the vulnerable. I will tell you, they get it. They understand that all we have to do is put a bill on the floor and the government will open. Catholic charities, in fact, is working with a federal program dealing with young immigrants. That program is faltering because of lack of federal dollars. Even though they are still working. What i would say to the leadership, the Republican Leadership, is listen to peter king who says youre on a kamikaze route. A suicide mission. There are votes. There are at least 21 republicans. 17 to 21. Let me be on the conservative side. Along with democrats who are ready to vote right now, yesterday. Early this evening or tomorrow morning on a clean continuing resolution without the idea of a hostage taking situation. And then, karen, no one has rebuked the idea of negotiating. So many of us, no matter whether were progressives or moderates. Weve all worked with republicans. Weve all cosponsored bills. All collaborated in our committees. Its not unusual. I want to say these points. Tomorrow im told an Aircraft Company in connecticut will lay off 2,000 people. October 15th the federal courts will close down. They can only last for ten days. The federal courts will close down. Then, of course, we meet the number one disaster, and that is the pending debt ceiling calamity, which as secretary lew said, were already using extraordinary measures. Congresswoman, let me just before i let you go ask you this question. There was this suggestion about an alternative proposal with this discharge petition as another strategy to try to get something done. As i understand, that would take us to about october 17th. Do you see that as a viable way to move forward if we cant if the clean cr vote just wont happen . Well, this shows that democrats are willing to negotiate, collaborate, engage. Thats what were doing. Our leadership has put forward a discharge petition which does not block republicans from signing it. If all of the democratic members sign it, which i expect that to happen, and 17 to 21 republicans sign it, it must be put on the floor of the house. We must secure a vote. But, karen, why do we have to do that . I said, the American People our priority or is it our special interests . Frankly, i am hurting, frankly hurting from all of the stories that ive been hearing. Some of the federal workers who are married to folk who are in afghanistan, who are just overwhelmed with their predicament of not being able to work. Theyre sort of the head of household with their husband away. Or the woman whos suffering domestic abuse. The story that was told to me last week. Her fellow workers had to go and get her because both of the individuals, her and her husband, are off. Obviously tension is rising. She had to be taken to a shelter. As i said, my Catholic Charities here who are suffering. Or the cardinal who i listened today in my district who said the just live by faith. I believe we have to have faith in a system. The democratic system says we have to work with the majority and the minority. Right now the majority wants a clean bill to be on the floor of the house. Not for members of congress. But for the American People. Thank you, congresswoman Sheila Jackson lee. For some additional political analysis lets bring in msnbc political analyst and editor at large for salon. Com joan walsh and republican strategist rick tyler. Thanks to you both for joining me. Glad to be here. Rick, i want to start with you. So we have so you had Speaker Boehner saying, you know, theres just not the votes. Then you have kind of the white house calling the bluff. Why not just go ahead and do it . Well, i assume that Speaker Boehner was told by leader mccarthy that he doesnt have the votes. Whose vote do i count . The speaker of the house or jay carney whos the mouthpiece for the president . Of course hes going to say he has the votes. I believe boehner. I think by the numbers we were just going through, theres roughly on the conservative side 17 republicans to maybe 22. And youve got democrats we can all guess. But the whips job why not just prove the point . Hold on. This is a house that has taken 42, 43, 44 votes against obama care. Does not have a problem sort of taking symbolic votes. Why not go ahead and prove the point by putting this to a vote . Karen, i can assure you on every single one of those votes leader mccarthy knew exactly how many people were going to vote for it. In this case he knows how many people are going to vote for or against it. Hes telling the speaker we dont have the votes. I dont know what to say other than that. Seems like there has not seemed to have been a problem in the past taking a vote on something just for a symbolic gesture. Thats my point. What they do have the votes for and what they have the vote for is theyve passed funding for the entire federal government except for obama care. They keep sending those spending measures to the senate. The president , who is who has refused to negotiate lets get something straight about the president. The president doesnt seem to understand what his job is. Or hes not particularly good at it. Ever since he went to overseas to try to get the olympics for chicago we could see he has no ability to negotiate. He has no real relationship with the house and the senate. Hes just refused to come to the table. Republicans have continually tried to come to the table. The president has refused. Rick, i mean its as simple as that. This president has actually come a long way and actually done some damage with himself on the left in many of the negotiations. I would remind you that the 2011 showdown, it was Speaker Boehner who walked away. I want to let joan get in here, though. Joan, this is the talking point weve been hearing again and again from republicans. But were not were talking about negotiating over settled law. Right. Sort of like when youre a teenager and you want to use your mothers car. And your mother says, no. Im not negotiating. Its my car. Because its my car. This is the law of the land. For this president to have to take a lecture in how to govern and how to negotiate from rick tyler is a little bit hard to swallow. Oh, come on, joan. Hard to sit here and swallow. This president did negotiate. Obama care, the Affordable Care act was the product of negotiation. It was the product of hundreds, literally hundreds of republican amendments that were then that then were adopted and then republicans didnt vote for the bill. There was endless negotiation with people on the left furious at the way the president did court the Chuck Grassleys of the world. Joan, thats a little bit of rewriting of history. No, im not. This is actually the way it happened. Then he couldnt this bill was rammed through the middle of the night without a single republican vote. Hearing after hearing of this bill went through the committee process. It had amendment after amendment. Republican amendments. Republicans just decided to walk away and not give the president any votes even though he compromised with them. Even though he took out the public option that people like me wanted. Its a compromise. It works through private industry and its the law of the land. Rick, lets take a look forward here. Because it was interesting this morning. We had Speaker Boehner, you know, on the shows. He was very consistent in his message. So weve put together a little montage. Lets take a listen and then well talk about it on the other side. Were interested in having a conversation about how we open the government and how we begin to pay our bills. So its my way or the highway. Thats what hes saying. Its time for us to sit down and have a conversation. The president is risking default by not having a conversation with us. He knows what my phone number is. All he has to do is call. Im willing is to sit down and have a conversation with the president. But his refusal to negotiate is putting our country at risk. His refusal to negotiate is whats putting the government at risk of default. The president cant just sit there and say im not going to negotiate. Im ready for the phone call. Im ready for the conversation. Im a reasonable guy. All he has to do is pick up the phone. Its the most reasonable thing in the world. Im ready to talk. Ive been ready to talk. I think the speaker is exactly right. I commend his leadership. So we did that in a manner because, you know, from everything weve been reading its really ted cruz whos been sort of running this strategy for the house. And you saw earlier in that same interview where Speaker Boehner basically said, well, he was going to do it one way, went back to his caucus, they didnt want to do it that way. That really was the same time we learned that cruz had actually caucused with the tea partyiers in the house kau us the and they were the ones driving this decision. I guess my point to you, rick, is what is the way out . What is there something that the president could offer at this point that would be acceptable . Part of the problem as we look at this, i think theres a real question as to what is it that will satisfy the whole republican caucus, particularly the tea partiers that is actually actionable and reasonable to get us out of this mess . Well, were in this mess because we havent dealt with entitlement spending over the years. We havent dealt with spending at all. We continue to raise the debt limit without any fundamental changes. The problem with raising the debt limit, the president is going to ask for a trillion dollars in new spending. The debt limit is about paying bills already racked up. Thats not about new spending. Thats correct. Its as 16. 7 trillion. The president is presently going to ask that it be raised to at least 17. 6 trillion. The republicans are saying these are unsustainable. When you start to have Interest Rates according to the cbos report last year that approached 20 in less than 20 years, the question is, the government is going to default. Whether itll default this year or in 20 years, i dont know. On this trajectory, it has to default because you cant with all the entitlement spending see, we didnt fix the entitlement spending before obama care which doesnt work. Thats not why were at this. We are at this point because we cannot agree on a continuing resolution. By the way, there is a budget. There could be a conference committee. On the budget. On the budget, actually. Were not even talking about that. Were talking about a continuing resolution here. And you asked from what youre saying it sounds to me like theres not anything at this point that the president can offer. One more question for joan before we go. Weve got some polling out, ppp did some polling taking a look at whether or not there are going to be consequences in 2014 for gop incumbents. Gop incumbents are trailing in about 17 house districts and democrats need 17 seats to pick up a house majority. How likely do you think it is, joan, this becomes an issue in the 2014 cycle . I think it will be an issue. I think the American People are fed up with this. Weve seen over and over that even republicans dont want the government shut down and certainly dont want the debt ceiling breached over obama care. They dont like it, but they dont think this is a fair way to negotiate. This is hurting the party even with republicans. As you raised, karen, the president doesnt know who to make a deal with. First of all, john boehner said at the beginning of this year, he told his caucus i will not be negotiating with that man. So dont accuse the president of not negotiating. But right now who can make a deal for this party . Its just not clear. That is actually frankly scary. Rick, final question to you. All right. Doesnt that we look forward to 2014, how does your party make a credible argument that the republicans can lead this country competently with things like this happening . Under Republican Leadership . You know, i thats an interesting way to phrase it. Id phrase it exactly that way for the democrats. Joans right. Were going to have an election in 2014. Recent bloomberg poll showed that the blame is actually tightening. That more people do still blame republicans, but the significant shift, actually, has been a shift in the independents who are starting more to blame barack obama. Because in the end, this is his government. The house has passed all the necessary measures to keep the government funded. The senates refused to take them up. The president has refused to come to the negotiating table. All right. I think thats where were at. Well let the country decide. Were going to have to leave it there. I do think that district by district, i think people will make up their minds based on i dont think they care whos to blame. I think they want competent leadership. Joan walsh and rick tyler, thanks to you both. I agree with that. Thank you, karen. Next, from the mind of tea party freshman and veterinarian ted yoho on the debt ceiling not being raised. Quote, i think personally it would bring stability to the markets. Stability. Thats coming up. Theyre saying its at risk because of your refusal to pass a clean debt limit. We are not going to pass a clean debt limit increase. Under no circumstances . I told the president , theres no way were going to pass when the votes are not in the house to pass a clean debt limit. Here i go again on my own going down the only road ive ever known i got this. [thinking] is it that time . The son picks up the check . [thinking] im still working. Hes retired. I hope hes saving. I hope he saved enough. Who matters most to you says the most about you. At massmutual were owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. Whether youre just starting your 401 k or you are ready for retirement, well help you get there. [ male announcer ] build anything with the new toyota tundra. Toyota. Lets go places. Bounce keeps my clothes fresh for weeks, even when theyve been sitting in the drawer a long time. Like those jeans you cant fit into anymore. Uh. By that, i mean. [ male announcer ] how do you get your bounce . Longlasting freshness. [ female announcer ] at 100 calories, not all food choices add up. Some are giant. Some not so giant. When managing your weight, bigger is always better. Ho ho ho green giant what this is, is the ability for the United States government to pay for things that congress has already committed us to paying for. And as a result, this has been a routine vote. Its happened more than 40 times since Ronald Reagan was president. Never before has a party threatened to not pay our bills. Except for 2011. Well, with this republican party, never before has become the new normal. And theyre doing it again. Take a listen to Speaker John Boehner this morning on abc. We are not going to pass a clean debt limit increase. Under no circumstances . I told the president , theres no way were going to pass when the the votes are not in the house to pass a clean debt limit. And the president is risking default by not having a conversation with us. You got to love those compromising republicans. Once again, willing to let the country default for the First Time Ever just, well, because, just because. And lets not blame the speakers problems on president obama. Speaker boehner opportunity hdoe votes because we has no control over his party. Whats the president going to do october 17th when we actually run out of money . Joining me now, cnbc senior economics reporter steve liesman. President of the Brennan Center for Justice Michael waldman. Thanks to you both. I want to start by looking at 2011. We know even though we didnt breach the debt limit there were economic consequences. Steve, i want to talk about that a little bit. Its not theoretical to suggest that even just getting to this point has consequences for the economy. If you dont mind, its not theoretical. You have to bring a constitutional lawyer and a financial reporter together to understand whats going to happen in the next two weeks. We thought that would be the best way to approach this. Its exactly right. You have the market. Its all depends on how serious the market believes that this threat is going to be. Right now its pretty interesting that the market is not really all that concerned. Theyve been here before. They think its kind of cried wolf before. So theyve got ton the 11th hour and theyve made a deal. Right now the market is not all that concerned. But if we get as we get closer, certainly the market we have seen a little bit of increase in Interest Rates. Im sort of alarmed this morning when michael and i have been through this before in the 90s. You know that there are sort of things you can do to sort of buy yourself a little time. This morning when jack lew says, no, no, no. That was in may. October 17th is really when ive run out of measures. I mean, that seems to be that alarmed me. I would think markets would react to that. Lets be clear. It depends if the government is going to pay the interest on the debt. It may do so in return for closing down the Justice Department and letting all the fbi people putting them on furlough. One way or the other if the government does not borrow about 30 of Government Spending must go away and must decline. That is a shock to the economy that will most certainly put the economy into a recession. There is no doubt about that. Whether or not we breach the we dont pay the interest on the debt and we default on the debt, thats a different question. Okay. Then thats why i have my lawyer here. You need a lawyer. I know. To talk about what the options are. Some of the options, we have a full screen on this. One is use section 4 of the 14th amendment. Ignore the debt ceiling and pay our bills. Mint a 1 trillion coin. Or get republicans on board. I think the last one is the hardest. Talk to me about what the president s options are, michael. This would all make the Founding Fathers wig hair stand on end. These are the kinds of issues that they were grappling with in trying to create a strong effective government that could pay its bills. Those were the issues that were around at the time of the American Revolution and the french revolution and throughout our countrys history. The president has is right in saying weve had Government Shutdowns before, but weve never really had anything close to the kind of default that were talking about. So what powers does he have . Well, there are strong arguments to be made that he has the power to do a variety of ways of doing this unilaterally. None of it is a clear case. So the 14th amendment says that the debt of the United States shall not be questioned. Theres only one Supreme Court case thats ever really looked at that. It seems to say that that you dont want to not be passing a law that says you cant pay what youve already obliged. But thats not really clear that thats going to hold up. Theres two sides ive heard on that. I want to ask you guys about. Ones argument says, go for it. Because if you win, then this we dont ever have to have this problem again. The other argument ive heard, having this tied up in the courts probably not so good for our economy. Probably not so good for the global economy. Ill take the first part of that which is that the United States debt and its dollar and its word is the bottom line benchmark foundation of the entire Global Financial system. The closer we get to potentially breaching that is not only a u. S. Domestic economic issue, its a global issue. The closer we get to that, the more we will pay in a price for for that over time. Theres nobody right now out there to take our place. But if the United States gets into a place where its unclear if we can pay either legally or financially our debt, theres going to be serious consequences. Thats a heavy load to have on the president s shoulders. The bottom line is there are no good options. Congress has said this much in taxes you can raise. This much in spending you can do. This much in debt is allowed. He may have to choose which unconstitutional option to follow. I dont know why as a negotiation matter, if nothing else, the administration doesnt just say, look, were not going to let this happen. Now, lets talk about the budget. Lets talk about the Government Shutdown. Theyve chosen not to do that. I think they think that puts more pressure on the republicans. I hope thats true. But there may come a moment if things get really bad where we would all expect the president to stand up and say, you know what . I dont care if this goes to court. Ive got to do what ive got to do to protect the economy. Its possible for the republicans to get exactly what they want through this. As soon as we reach this place where the treasury secretary is out of the ability to borrow, spending equals revenue. Immediate balanced budget. Im not sure that the republicans, or at least some republicans, are going to mind that situation. Except things suddenly start getting cut are Social Security benefits, medicare payments, true payments. All these things people dont want touched because they want the Government Spending cut. You guys have just convinced me we need this trillion dollar coin. Problem solved. Well just pay it off. Steve liesman and michael waldman, thanks to you both. Be sure to follow us online at facebook and tweet us msnbcdisrupt. Let us know how you think the Government Shutdown should end. Stay with us. Next. The kooch and the cruz. Its a love story coming up. Democrats say keep it closed because they like it being closed. I dont support shutting down the government. We are the ones that shut the government down. Customer erin swenson ordered shoes from us online but they didnt fit. Customers not happy, im not happy. Sales go down, im not happy. Merch comes back, im not happy. Use ups. They make returns easy. Unhappy customer becomes happy customer. Then, repeat customer. Easy returns, im happy. Repeat customers, im happy. Sales go up, im happy. I ordered another pair. Im happy. both im happy. Im happy. Happy. Happy. Happy. Happy. Happy happy. I love logistics. Wout of landfills each year . Plastic waste to cover mt. Rainier by using one less trash bag each month, we can. And glad forceflex bags stretch until theyre full. So you can take them out less often. 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Coping with asthma isnt controlling it. Test your level of control at asthma. Com, then talk to your doctor. There may be more you could do for your asthma. Ill tell you one thing about my friend cuccinelli. He loves liberty and the constitution. More than praise from the washington post. That was ted cruz last night in richmond, virginia. Heaping praise on his friend cuccinelli. Ken cuccinelli, of course. Republican candidate for governor in virginia. Aka, the cooch. They did have a little backstage gettogether in which the cooch implored the cruzinator to end the Government Shutdown. Virginia has more than 144,000 federal workers, or put another way, 144,000 voters who proudly serve our country and proudly dont like being punch bags for ted cruz or his good friend the cooch. The cooch is behind in the polls and getting crushed among women and minority voters. So he cant really afford to lose the support of government workers. He can now thank his good friend if federal workers decide the cooch and the cruz is one bromance they can do without. Still ahead, what would you think if you were told not to praise your kids for being smart or talented . [ woman 1 ] why do i cook . Because an empty pan is a blank canvas. [ woman 2 ] to share a moment. [ man 1 ] to remember my grandmother. [ woman 3 ] to show my love. [ woman 4 ] because life needs flavor. [ woman 5 ] to travel the World Without leaving home. [ male announcer ] whatever the reason. Whatever the dish. Make it delicious with swanson. [ woman 1 ] thats why i cook. See who does good work and compare costs. It doesnt usually work that way with health care. But with unitedhealthcare, i get information on quality rated doctors, Treatment Options and estimates for how much ill pay. That helps me, and my guys, make better decisions. I dont like guesses with my business, and definitely not with our health. Innovations that work for you. Thats health in numbers. Unitedhealthcare. Just two short years ago failed leaders set out to strip over 5 billion from our already underfunded public schools. And they were wrong. So i took to the senate floor determined to block the bill the only way i could. By filibustering. Democratic state senator wendy davis was announcing her bid for governor, taking on rick perrys greg abbott. Reminding texans her first filibuster wasnt her pink Running Shoes wearing stance over the abortion bill. It was for education. Under the able leadership of the perry abbott tag team texas has dropped to dead last in High School Graduation rates and remain dead last in the percentage of people with health care. It makes sense that governor rick perry would call the Affordable Care act a, quote, criminal act. Despite perrys claims to the contrary, state spending on education, according to politifact, has actually decreased by 25 from 2002 to 2012. With these and many other facts on her side, the question is can wendy davis convince texas to go blue . Filling the first open gubernatorial seat in texas since 1990 when none other but ann richards pulled off an upset victory. For more on whether wendy davis can turn texas blue im joined by msnbc contributor victoria Defrancesco Soto and reporter for the texas tribune, alana rocho. Thank you for joining me. I want to start with you, alana. Looking at the demographics of texas, some say its maybe too early to think that texas could go blue. If you look at changing demographics among women voters, latino voters, it does seem theres a coalition of voters there that if wendy can get them to turn out she could actually take this thing. It depends, you know, who you talk to. Talking with battleground texas jeremy bird running that operation here in the state, he said it might not be the demographic might not be there yet. The straemg of how they approach that 254 counties here in texas, they magt not be able to win over those counties but they want to be able to reach people in the rural areas, suburban women, to try and get those segments of the population they havent been successful with in the past. You know, victoria, to that point, jeremy bird. That name should sound familiar. He ran the grassroots operation for president obama. No question she is going to have a pretty state of the art sort of grass roots underpinning to her campaign. That seems like an advantage for her. It does. That grass roots advantage is going to help her make up for lost ground in terms of money, first of all. Abbott comes into the game with 22 million. Wendy davis has a million. Because of her filibuster earlier this summer, she was able to gain notoriety akrcross the country. Thats going to be able to help her get that money trickling in, getting people to give small donations. The other secret weapon she has is women, moderate women, either republicans or independents who dont necessarily think that abortion should be illegal. A university of texas poll recently showed that about 44 of independent women dont think abortion should be illegal. On that issue, youre going to see some crossover voters. When it comes to latinos, theyve just got to mobilize. Old fashioned boots on the ground mobilization. Lets talk about abbott for just a moment. I mean, noticeably, he has money. Although it does seem that wendy does have the ability to raise national money. As you point out, her profile has been raised by the filibuster. He doesnt have very high name recognition in the state. That means from a campaign perspective, alana, its a plus or minus because it means you can still be defined or it means youve got to spend a lot of money to define yourself. Similarly, wendy has, you know, fairly higher notoriety. Abbott, though, its still a very texas is still a conservative state. Abbott is a good conservative by most accounts. He has sued time and time again over the Affordable Care act. He is a darling of the tea party. How much of an uphill battle is this going to be for wendy . You know, just following her announcement on thursday, i pulled over people randomly in the crowd who all said who used the term uphill battle as far as what shes facing ahead. All are ready to mobilize. It was really a diverse crowd. More so, maybe, you could say than what you saw at some of the abbott stump speeches immediately following his announcement. So there were signs that said different segments of the population there. I think that will bode well for her. I talked to a gentleman who didnt want to go on camera. He said he was a Republican Campaign staffer who said shell be a formidable candidate because of the National Fame she garnered this summer with her filibuster and also with the presence of battleground texas here. Victoria, you wrote i know you mentioned this earlier. You wrote also this week about the abortion issue and about the role that that could play. But one of the things that strikes me is on i mean, you talk about people potentially crossing party lines, women for the positive. At the same time, we saw some pretty nasty tweets and comments being made about wendy davis. Some pretty horrible things being said about her. Tying her to national democrats. Tying her to the National Democratic party and the democratic agenda. Heres a tweet from michelle malkin. Wendy davis texas has no idea how ghoulish she sounds when she talks about a better tomorrow for everyone. It seems to me that issue can play in her favor, but it can also play against her. And opportunity medoes it mean distance herself from national democrats. Thats right. Just recently two days ago a Pro Life Committee started running radio ads in south texas about the abortion issue and about wendy davis. At least when were looking at latinos, with latinos we tend to think theyre very conservative socially so will they stay home and not vote for davis because of the abortion issue . What we have seen from polling data, for example, latino decision shows that latinos tend to be no different than nonlatinos when it comes to the abortion issue. Maybe slightly a tad bit more conservative. Latinas who vote more than their counterparts are just as prochoice as nonlatinos. Its not going to be as big of a challenge as we might think it would. Final question to you, victoria. Do women see this issue not just as an abortion issue but access to Health Care Issue . Were talking about the number of clinics that have to close. Theres a Health Care Issue here, too. Absolutely. Think about the situation texas is in. Theyre not taking medicaid dollars. Texas already has some dismal health care. This is is a womens issue not just because of the right to choose but because of the the right to have access to health care. All right. Well be watching this race very closely. Thanks. Next, our disrupter of the week. A man with family ties defieing great odds. Thats coming up. Winner. Canada senator ted cruz senator ted cruz was born in canada. So while we were worried about iran, china and north korea, a canadian shut down the u. S. Government. Well played, canada. [ dog barking ] [ female announcer ] life is full of little tests, but your basic paper towel can handle them. Especially if that towel is bounty basic. The towel thats 50 stronger. In this lab demo even just one selectasize sheet of bounty basic is stronger than one full sheet of the leading bargain brand. Everyday life . Bring it with bounty basic. The strong, but affordable pickerupper. 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I can tell you safety is at the heart of everything we do. Weve added cuttingedge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a stateoftheart monitoring center, where experts watch over all drilling activity twentyfourseven. And were sharing what weve learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. Our commitment has never been stronger. The disclaimer is ive gone through if i didnt wake up and be in this place with positivity and hearts and flowers and unicorns. I went through a lot of stuff. You welcomed him in your living room as the preppy young conservative alex p. Keaton. He went back to the future in h he revealeded hed been suffering from parkinsons and took a step back from acting. The 52yearold is back disrupting the stigma about that progressive neurological disorder where he plays mike henry, a family man reentering the News Business who just also happens to have parkinsons. If that was parkinsons, were cool. If not, not cool, dad. Youve been texting the whole meal. Its a brave narrative in comedy television. Michael j. Fox, great to see you back on the small screen. You are our disrupter of the week. Next, using failure, i said failure, as a way to improve the performance of american students. Thats when we come back. [ female announcer ] made just a little sweeter. Because all these whole grains arent healthy unless you actually eat them multigrain cheerios. Also available in delicious peanut butter. Healthy never tasted so sweet. Earlier this year the conservative Heritage Foundation was forced to hire when details of his harvard dissertation, iq and immigration policy became public. Richline proposed a startlingly bigoted theory between connections between race and intelligence. He wrote, quote, no one knows where hispanic will reach iq parity with whites. Richwines offensive premise suggests that intelligence is fixed. That it cant be developed or grown. Which also contradicts vast Neuroscience Research that demonstrates every child as the capacity for intelligence and high achievement. The distinguishing characteristic is mind set, not skin color or immigration status. Research has shown that the childs mind set or the way he or she views themselves and their learning capabilities play an Important Role in their overall success. So in honor of our fourth education nation summit here at nbc and msnbc, as were asking what it takes, as in what it takes for us as a nation to prepare students for college, career and beyond, were examining what it takes to instill a growth mind set and what impact can that have on a childs education. Just a few months ago the Obama Administration convened a group of experts to discuss how a childs belief about their abilities impact learning overall and overall achievement. As they noted in a blog post, quote, Research Demonstrates that when children learn their academic ability is not a fixed trait like eye color but instead is like a muscle that can grow and develop with hard work they do better in school. The most dramatic improvements are typically seen in low performing students, students of color and females in s. T. E. M. Related courses. Despite what Jason Richwine thinks, intelligence is a work in progress. Which means that every child can grow their intelligence to create achievement. And it mean that our country cant afford to waste this human capital. Which also means ensuring that every child has access to a quality education. Joining us to discuss are two people who have devoted their careers to students and education. President of the American Federation of teachers, randy winegarden. Adjunct professor of harvard professor of dr. David doctorsman, also known as dock. Thanks to you both. I want to start with you. Lets talk about the concept of the growth mind set. It seems intuitively it makes a lot of sense. Right. We all have fixed mind sept sets about some things and growth mind sets about others. Places we think were good at something or not. Thats a fixed mindset. Other places where our abilities, our natural abilities are just a starting point. We put in effort, we get better. You have them in your life. There are places where you say im just not that good at this. Other places where youre willing to youre looking for challenges. You dont mind making mistakes. Thats part of how you learn and grow. One of the things, randi, i thought was so interesting about talking about this, its the idea that just kind of normalizing failure, almost. Right . Exactly. That its like a step two. Im just going to keep trying. I got to come back at it. Whats happening is paul tough wrote this Remarkable Book this year about exactly this. He calls it perseverance or grit. When you think about it, theres three things first off, teachers always i mean, were always into a growth mindset. Because kids brains are not fixed. What are we trying to do . Were trying to grow knowledge. Were trying to apply that. If you think about it, in terms of a school, we have to create a trusting environment for kids, teachers to thrive. We have to engage kids. Not where we want them to be but where they are and help move them. And then we have to really create this perseverance, resilience, grit. Because if kids know how to how to get up after they stumble and fall, thats probably frankly with all due respect the most important skill set we can teach a child. It grows confidence. It grows a sense of accomplishment. And it grows a sense of i can take the world. You know, dock, i think about this particularly with struggling students. Struggling readers. Kids struggling in math. We know that so much of whats going on is low selfesteem. Right . Kids avoid things that make them feel bad. So you just dont go to that class. They get into such a cycle. What strikes me about this way of approaching their education, and i know youve been working with teachers and students to kind of rethink this, that its okay if you fail. Just keep trying. And that you can this idea that you can be a genius, actually. Right. Learning is an effortful process. If we only did things that were easy we wouldnt be learning anything. Wed be practicing things we already knew. Theres that mix of the willingness to get up and try again is kind of based on a belief that my next try will has a chance of success. I also have to have ways of what am i going to do differently . There is competence and confidence that have to be built together. So what are the things that schools need, teachers need, to ensure that we are creating . This is the kind of environment i think we want in every school. Not just in private schools or charter schools, but in every school. What are the tools, what are the things we need to make this happen . One thing that was successful was teaching students about growth mindset. That your brain is like a muscle. It is really no pain, no gain. If you dont use it, its not going to grow. Exercising it. Look for challenges. Looking for challenges. Expecting struggle. Because thats an indication that youre learning. Of course, its hard. That means something good is happening. So ive become a big believer. Because were in this huge are we fixated on tests or not and the standardized test kind of regime has taken over. Ive spent a lot of time now talking to people about, okay, what can we do as alternatives to testing . This kind of project based learning. Capstone projects. Things like i did with my kids when i taught at claireborn high school. We engaged in debate society. The constitution and bill of rights. Robotics. I think if we actually dealt with one, we have to deal with social emotional issues of kids. Not just instruction. But in instruction, really create this engagement process, this effort process, that gets to an end where kids really Start Building things instead of just one day on a standardized test. That, i think, helps us get to this growth mindset. It seems to me, dock, it helps us change our mindset about what is possible. Right, right. Its you have to believe that its there. We have to be very careful in the words that we use. Setting kids up the right way. If you start a lesson, say lets start with an easy one and a struggling student cant do the ease ci easy one, youre done. I cant do the easy one. This might take a few tries. You get it right away. Youre feeling pretty good. Teachers have to say we take kids where they are. Not where we want them to be. Educate all children and the whole child. Thank you guys so much. Im so excited to have had this conversation. Randi weingarten and dr. David dockterman, dock. That does it for me. Please dont forget to share your thoughts. Find us on facebook and tweet us at t msnbcdisrupt. Well see you here next saturday. Sted it partner, youll experience reliable uptime for the network and services you depend on. Multilayered Security Solutions keep your information safe, and secure. And responsive dedicated support meets your needs, and eases your mind. Centurylink. Your link to whats next. And youre not very proud of that. But tonight he made pizza. With johnsonville italian sausage. And everybody loved it. And youre definitely proud of that. Johnsonville. Served with pride since 1945. See, i knew testosterone could affect sex drive, but not energy or even my mood. Thats when i talked with my doctor. He gave me some blood tests. Showed it was low t. Thats it. It was a number. [ male announcer ] today, men with low t have androgel 1. 62 testosterone gel. 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