Situation before he failed a sobriety test and the police decided to arrest him. Video also shows he grabbed the officers taser as he struggled and then he ran away. As police pursued him, he fired the taser in their direction while continues to run away. Then police shot him in the back two times. The officer who shot Rayshard Brooks has been fired. Another officer on the scene has been put on administrative leave and the citys police chief has resigned. It was only three weeks ago today that a Police Officer in minneapolis knelt on the neck of george floyd for almost nine minutes choking him to death. That incident sparked protests not just across the country but across the globe, which is why what transpired in atlanta is upsetting and confusing because unless those Police Officers were under a rock, they should have known about whats been going on for weeks now. Day after day people protesting Police Brutality, and, yet, it happened again. Rayshard brooks was not a threat to anyone until they went to arrest him. I grew up in a place in toronto where sometimes if you failed a sobriety test sometimes the police would give you a taxi token to get home. Being asleep behind the wheel is not a violent offense. We have all heard of the dangers of driving while black. Now we can add sleeping while black to that. But now we are starting to see Police Departments across the country respond to these calls for change. For example, in San Francisco, the mayor announced the police will no longer be sent for noncriminal calls. In new york, Governor Andrew Cuomo just signed a Police Reform bill, a huge one, which includes requiring police to report a weapons discharge after two hours. But these measures are all too late for Rayshard Brooks and his family. They might get justice, but theyll never get him back. He was a loving husband, Caring Brother and most importantly to me an uncle i could depend on. Rayshard brooks was silly. He had the brightest smile and the biggest heart and loved to dance since we were kids. Tomorrow were going to have to deal with it again. Were going to have to bear and were going to have to say we miss you and if we didnt say we love you enough, we got to apologize to him for not telling him that we loved him that much. I can never get my husband back. I can never get my best friend. I can never tell my daughter, oh, hes coming to take you to swimming lessons. So its just going to be a long time before i heal. It is going to be a long time before this family heals. Its going to be a long time before this family heals. Joining me now morgan chesky, who is live in atlanta. Morgan, what is the situation there . Reporter the situation is as the sun goes down in atlanta tonight, we are seeing what probably is the largest amount of people that have come out today in a peaceful protest following the death of mr. Brooks on friday night. And behind me right at centennial park, we have several dozen people gathered here today honoring the life of mr. Brooks, showing respect but also amidst all this they are calling for justice, and that is the main message that everyone has been putting forth today, that massive march that took place on the capital steps this morning had thousands of people calling for Police Reform, calling for a change in how communities operate when it comes to Law Enforcement. And people are already seeing serious changes as a result of that here in this city. We saw the resignation of the police chief over the weekend. We did see that officer who pulled the trigger be fired. We heard the Fulton CountyDistrict Attorney say that he anticipates to prosecute one or both of those officers and press charges of manslaughter or murder, and those charges should be filed by some time midweek. Since then, we have heard from the mayor of atlanta today who says that there is no time to waste. Change has to start immediately, and thats why she signed an executive order that will take under review how this department uses use of force in the field when an officer will come into contact with someone the way in which we have now seen that video play out. 40 minutes of a peaceful encounter that then ended in a fatale gunfire. So not only will use of force be reviewed, they will also have hopefully every officer have to undergo a deescalation training, which is currently not on the books here for atlanta pd. These crowds, ali, are calling for the same things we saw in minneapolis weeks ago saying they need to divert funds from the Police Department to more Community Programs that they feel will make them a safer place to live because right now trust absolutely still compromised between the community and Law Enforcement. Ali . Morgan, im sorry to talk to you as often as i am about these things, but thank you for your continued excellent reporting. I want to bring in Chris Stewart, an attorney for the family of Rayshard Brooks, and mr. Stewart, im sorry to have to talk to you again. Before we talk about the things that may happen and the changes that may occur, i want to talk about that event you were at with Rayshard Brooks family earlier today. This is the sort of message that americans dont get to see, that these People Killed by police are people with lives, with families, with children. He had three daughters and a stepson. And his life is gone. He was asleep behind the wheel, no impediment to anybody except somebody trying to get through a drive through at wendys, and now hes dead. How do you make sense of this, chris . Thats why it is important that we introduce the family to the world today. Look, everybody is going to argue back and forth about the shooting, the technicalities, the laws, the confrontation, and people are going to go back and forth about that. But they have to see that real families are impacted and suffer losses in these situations, and thats why the community and thats why people are so upset, is they look at that person like an uncle or a father or a brother. And you go watch the pain in even his cousins face today, in tears at the loss. Heres the thing, chris, we have had this conversation before. You have represented other families. In fact, you are representing George Floyds daughter. At some juncture, the strange part about the last three weeks is you would think you would see police on their best behavior in america. Yet, we have not seen that with the protests. We have not seen that with the rubber bullets or the tear gas or batons and the arrests. But you would think that these two cops in atlanta know whats going on in this country. At what point is this not about policy but about culture . Thats exactly right. Policy changes are great. And a lot of cities are trying to do that right now, but it is the mentality of policing that has to change right now. Its the sense of respect and empathy and caring about the community that youre policing that we have to get back to. And i know that its possible. I know there are some officers out there that truly care. We just have to that has to be highlighted and not the aggression. Chris stewart, what does i dont even know how to ask you this question. What does success look like to you in these cases, in the case of Rayshard Brooks and in the other cases, the case of george floyd and the other ones you represented because there is justice to be had somewhere, one thinks. But these lives dont come back. And until we stop cheapening the lives of africanamerican people of color in this country, what does success look like to you . Thats the big question. I used to think that i could define it. It was winning the case, the civil case for the family or getting an officer that murdered somebody arrested or getting one policy change or Something Like that. But, you know, the only justice that i really see or believe in now is a full systematic change where unity is created between policing and the community, where positive policing and the positive Police Officers are highlighted and that culture takes over, where the interaction is, hey, man, take an uber home or walk home and not let me throw these cuffs on you even though you are not even driving. Do you think that the reaction that you have seen in your city from your mayor and from the police chief i actually had some people say theyre sorry to see that police chief gone because she was reform minded. I worked with chief shields a lot before and have had positive experiences with her. And, you know, i still havent gotten clarity on her stepping down. I have respect for chief shields. I think that our mayor is doing what she can. You know, its hard to get change. You know, you have to take on the unions. You have to take on officers that dont want change. You know, with the civil rights movement, people fought change. So, you know, i salute the mayors and the governors and people that are pushing change and policy reform. But its really about the people, the people out there in the community, white, black, coming together to try and just fix this so we can have a better society. You talk about unity between police and the communities that they police. On saturday night, your colleague, another attorney, spoke after you, and he talked about the fact that he doesnt want police to be scared when they have these interactions with black men. There is nothing that should have scared the police about their interaction with Rayshard Brooks that caused them to want to arrest him, to put him in cuffs even if there was some charge to be had and then to shoot him. How do you get there . Crazy enough, i have had situations where i fostered a Good Relationship with, you know, Police Officers. And i had a young officer tell me that in his training following an older officer on one side of town, a predominantly white affluent side of town, you behaved a certain way and interacted with people if you pulled them over. On another side of town, you took a more aggressive tone and nature and acted different. And its that behavior that becomes engrained that when you are dealing with africanamericans or the poor that you have to be aggressive or you have to be authoritarian. When thats not the case. Chris stewart, thank you for joining me again tonight. The attorney for the family of Rayshard Brooks. Thank you, sir. Joining me now is senator doug jones. Democrat of alabama. Senator, good to have you here. Thank you for being here. We have so much to discuss, and we rarely talk. But i do have to continue this particular conversation. We have a moment in our country right now, and as Chris Stewart talked about, sometimes the solution to this is going to have to come from a reeducation of everybody involved, white people, police. Were going to have to figure out something thats not just about the things that you are trying to get done in the senate but a way that police and their communities were linked to each other. No, i dont think there is any question about that, ali. Thanks for having me tonight. Look, were talking and focussing on the police and Law Enforcement because those are what we see on our cameras and our videos and on the nightly news. But the fact of the matter is it is a much broader cultural discussion that we have to have that goes way beyond just Law Enforcement. We need to talk about health care disparities. We need to talk about the 140 million of those in poverty and low income in this country. We need to have a much broader not just discussion but call to action. I do think were all that moment. Just like i spoke a couple of weeks ago in the shadow of 16th street baptist church, those events woke a conscious of america. I mean, and a congress. I think thats whats happened now. We are at that moment in history where voices are being heard and people are recognizing the voices and seeing things that they have refused to see for so, so long. And, senator, this needs to not be partisan. And there are efforts in the house and the senate. In fact, to my eyes, surprisingly bipartisan because people are realizing that something needs to be done. There is an effort that House Democrats have put forward, the justice in policing act. Your senator colleague, senator tim scott, is leading a different effort. Theyre not entirely over lapping. What is your sense of how the Senate Moves Forward on this . Well, im hoping that we can get some bipartisan agreement on that. I think, you know, the house bill that was introduced was also introduced in the senate. Senator harris and senator burk are leading that. Im a cosponsor of that bill. Its a good bill. I think there will be some overlap with what senator scott says. The fact that you have got republicans in the United States senate that are introducing that bill at all i think is an important step. We need to talk about things. We need to see where we can find Common Ground and hopefully get something done. I think people in the United States senate and the congress are seeing this as an opportunity that we havent had in a couple of generations to really move the needle forward and get something done, and that could help change so many other aspects in america. Senator, i want to talk to you about something you experience in the south more than we do here in the north. And it is this conversation about confederate statues and military bases. This weekend, former senator Jeff Sessions is trying to get his old seat back, voted to remove the names of every soldier who fought for the confederacy betrays the decency whose courage and duty reached the boast sides. Naming u. S. Bases for those who fought for the south was seen as an act of respect and conciliation to those who were called to duty by the states. Talk to me about that. You know, look, first of all, ali, let me just think. My response to Jeff Sessions on that was basically hes not on the right side of history when it comes to the confederacy. Never has been, never will be. And i want to thank everybody that supported me in that little twitter spat. I really appreciated that. But the fact of the matter is this is an important step, and the vote that came out of the Senate Armed Services committee controlled by republicans on a bipartisan vote was an important step. There are republicans in the congress and the senate right now saying its time. Time to take those actions. By the way, and i dont think people actually remember the fact that there were only, you know, there were only 11 states or so in the confederacy, but there are confederate monuments across this country in 31 states. So i think it is important to remember that these monuments were erected as part of jim crow and it is a part of the fight against civil rights and the integration and inequality for all africanamericans in this country. And for all black folks in this country. I point people to the speech of Alexander Stevens in texas on march 21st, 1861, in which he lays out the underpinnings of the confederacy as being based in slavery. I want to talk to you about the pandemic. Alabama is being hard hit. Yesterday if state added more than a thousand cases. This the is the fourth consecutive day where the state added a Record Number of cases. What do we do about this . Well, i think everybody has to Pay Attention to whats going on. You know, our governor, i thought, did a good job as compared to some of the other southern governors, especially with trying to open up alabama slowly. She kept giving the messages and our Health Experts and Public Officials have been saying to folks, please wear masks. Please social distance. People are not heeding those requests. Theyre opening up and pretending like nothing has ever happened. And were seeing it is not a coincidence all this is happening two weeks after memorial weekend when everything was just seemed to be wide open in alabama. Look, the only way to fight this pandemic right now is to social distance, wear a mask, try to, you know, sanitize hands, wash your hands as much as you can. It is the only way were going to keep this under control. And if people will do that, i dont think that thats inconsistent with trying to open folks up. It will save lives but we can also save livelihoods by trying to do this smart, efficient and follow the data. I hope people in alabama will Pay Attention to that going into the summer. Senator, good to see you. Thank you for joining me again tonight. Senator doug jones of alabama. Coming up next, the fda stunning reversal on the pandemic treatment that President Trump has been pushing. Dr. Emanuel on the hydroxychloroquine headline and the alarming rise in covid cases across several states. Audible is my roadtrip companion. Its kind of my quiet, alone time. Audible is a routine for me. Its like a fun night school for adults. I could easily be seduced into locking myself into a place where i do nothing but listen to books. I never was interested in historical fiction before, but im obsessed with it now. There are a lot of like, classic and big titles that i feel like i missed out since i dont have time to read, mean i might as well listen. If i want to catch up on the news or history or learn whats going on in the world, i can download a book and listen to it. Because i listened to her story over and over again, i made the decision to go ahead and follow my own dream, which was to help other veterans. I think theres like 180 books in my, in my library now. It changes your perspective; it makes you a different person. Its true, its so true. To start your free 30day trial, just text listen17 to 500500. To start your free 30day trial, bbut what if you couldg do better than that . Like adapt. Discover. Deliver, in new ways, to new customers. What if you could come back stronger . Faster. Better. At comcast business, we want to help you not just bounce back, but bounce forward. And now, with one of our best offers ever, were committed to helping you do just that. Get a powerful and reliable internet and voice solution for only 29. 95 a month for three months. Call or go online today. Hydroxychloroquine is used by thousands and thousands of frontline workers. So that hopefully they dont catch this horrible disease or whatever you want to call it. A lot of people swear by it. Its gotten a Bad Reputation only because im promoting it. So im obviously a very bad promoter. If anybody else were promoting it, they would say, this is the greatest thing ever. The president spent months promoting hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for coronavirus, even taking it himself last month after being exposed to the virus. But today his own fda revoked its approval of the drug for emergency use saying the drug carry toos many risks without any aparent benefit. The drug has been showed to have serious side effects, including cardiac issues. For more on the fdas decision, and where we are in the fight against coronavirus, im joined by my good friend, dr. Ezekiel emanuel, who served aunld the special adviser under prem. Hes the author of a new book. He sko hosts the podcast, making the call. For a while, he was my cohost on a show here on msnbc. Good to see you again. Let me ask you why this is so confusing. Why has this gone back and forth . I have been reading something from a doctor at yale who still says that hydroxychloroquine with other drugs is a good combination. What am i missing here . Just the data to show that its actually good. So the fda approved hydroxychloroquine under tremendous political treasure for emergency use authorization. That doesnt provide any proof the medication actually works. It has to be a reasonable belief that it may be of some benefit. And there was no reasonable belief. There was a lot of political pressure. There were a few studies that suggested it might be and lots of people experimenting with it. But we have now had a number of studies that shows its not beneficial, may be harmful in the sense that patients with covid dont do better. The fda has recorded 25 deaths with cardiac arrhythmias. Thats with covid associated use of hydroxychloroquine. And they were asked to pull the emergency use authorization, which is what they just did. Basically they said there is no evidence it is beneficial. Some evidence that it really is harmful and we should not be using it. And certainly not no real evidence that its a you should take it to prevent yourself from getting covid. The reason this is worrisome, zeke, and you probably havent seen this a lot. I havent covered the pollicization of medicine. But the president continues to talk about a vaccine showing up before christmas. Most vaccines experts say thats not likely because you have to test a vaccine to see whether over time it has detrimental effects. I worry that if we politicize the vaccine, hundreds of thousands, millions of people are going to want to be first in line to get, and the same thing may happen. We may not have the safest thing, but we have politicized this. You are either on trumps side or youre not. I agree. We wrote an op ed in the New York Times a week or two ago saying exactly the same thing. We cannot have the fda approve a vaccine before we have concrete Scientific Evidence not that it raises antibodies but actually prevents people from getting covid19 infection. Thats called effectiveness in prevention of transmission, and thats evidence we need before we can actually approve a vaccine. Otherwise, you could have a situation where, yes, the antibodies go up, but it doesnt actually prevent you from getting infected. And that would be a disaster because people could get vaccinated. They think theyre not going to get covid19 and they do get covid19. So that would be a terrible situation. Zeke, i want to ask my control room to put up in succession cases in florida, new york and texas. In florida we have seen cases increasing since the state started reopening on may 4th and spiking in recent days. In texas cases decreasing steadily. Im sorry, this is new york. Continuing to decrease since starting to reopen on may 13th. In texas, we show cases increasing after reopening again on april 20th and again, like florida, spiking in recent days. What do you make of this . Are we flattening the curve . Are we in a long plateau . Where are we in this illness . Lets make a few quick points. First of all, if you look at florida and texas, what you see is that four weeks after they began reopening and they were not on the downward slope when they reopened, you get this bump up, this dramatic increase. It is almost exactly four weeks later that you begin to see this increase. If you look at other states across the south that are experiencing that increase, thats what you consistently see, because they werent actually on 14 days of a downward path when they reopened. They actually werent ready. They didnt reopen slowly. They reopened abruptly with many, many things that allowed people to interact. If you look at new york on the other hand, they were clearly on the downward slope for a very long time and then they slowly in phases reopened and the graph of cases has continued to decrease. So there is a way to reopen and there is a way not to reopen. You have to reopen at the right time when you are on the downward side of the graph. You have to reopen in phases, not all at once. Mainly where you can maintain social distancing. And if you dont, you will get this upsurge in cases, predictably roughly four weeks after you sort of abruptly reopen. Thats i think what you are seeing all across the south and the west. Zeke, i have 30 seconds left. Because were friends and because we have a nice relationship, i will quiz you live on tv. True or false. Donald trump did say this. Whether what he said is true or false. If we stop testing right now, we would have very few cases of the coronavirus. True or false . Well, we wouldnt see cases of coronavirus, but wed still have thousands of cases per day of coronavirus. Good to see you, my friend. It is a matter of absorbing the reality. Right. Right. Zeke emanuel is a former Obama White House policy adviser. Hes a professor at the university of pennsylvania, has a whole lot of titles and it is always my pleasure to have him back on tv. Thank you, zeke. Still ahead, the Landmark Supreme Court ruling today protecting lbgtq rights and the trump appointee who penned the majority opinion. Melissa murray is here to break down the biggest surprises of the day right after this. This virus is testing all of us. And its testing the people on the front lines of this fight most of all. So abbott is getting new tests into their hands, delivering the critical results they need. And until this fight is over, we. Will. Never. Quit. Because they never quit. Black lives matter. They are chanting black trans lives matter. A massive rally for black transgender rights. A real cause for celebration in an astonishing landmark ruling from the conservative dominated Supreme Court of the United States which ruled 63 that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 does in fact provide employment protections for lgbtq americans. And that means it is now illegal everywhere in this country to fire someone simply because they are gay or transgender. Two conservatives, chief Justice John Roberts and neil gorsuch a trump appointee who wrote the majority opinion, sided with the courts four liberals. Not for liberal reasons, ruling that existing employment protections based on an individuals sex include lgbtq americans. This is interesting. For more on that ruling and another big move by the court today, im joined by Melissa Murray a professor at the nyu law school. Melissa, thank you for being with me. I want to examine this a little bit for our viewers who have not had a chance. Viewers may have heard the news, but i think the meat behind it is even more interesting. Justice gorsichs argument says in part consider for an example an employer with two employees, both of whom are attracted to men. The two individuals are, to the employers mind, materially identical in all respects, except that one is a man. The other is a woman. If the employer fires the male employee for no other reason than the fact he is attracted to men, the employer discriminates against him for traits or actions that it tolerates in his female colleague. Simple logic. No expression of left leaning views there. Not at all. So i think many people were surprised to see a trump appointee coming out in favor of lgbtq rights. But as you suggest, the logic of this opinion is right down the middle, very straightforward analysis that plays in the language of texturalism, this idea that it is not whats in the minds of those who wrote the statute, but rather what is on the face of the statute, what does the statute say . Here title 7 says that you cannot discriminate on the basis of sex, and as Justice Gorsuch noted, necessarily implicates questions of sex. Therefore, this is too prohibited under title 7. So it is actually a kind of conservative logic with a very progressive outcome. Right. Were just showing pictures right now of demonstrations, celebrations actually going on outside of the Stonewall Inn in new york city where people are celebrating this ruling. Melissa, tell me about the consequences of this. I said it makes it illegal to discriminate, but does it really . Because we are in the shadow of the Trump Administration revoking Transgender Health protections under the aca. We see all sorts of laws. So what is the actual effect of todays ruling . It is a monumental ruling. Some have compared it from 2015 which legalized same sex marriage. I think it is even more important than same sex marriage because people have to have jobs. Not Everyone Wants to or will actually get married. Most adults will be employed at some point. And for many individuals who live in states that dont have antidiscrimination protections for Sexual Orientation or gender identity, title 7 is the only game in town. Now that title 7 protects Sexual Orientation, that is enormous. To be clear, there is points of disagreement that may be less progressive. One of the things that Justice Gorsuch alluded to in this decision is that there is room in title 7 for employers who have religious objections to raise those and perhaps be shielded from the reach of title 7s prohibition. Again, we saw this in the marriage context where conscious exemptions were raised and it seems likely that we may see those too, as this decision gets processed and internalized and new strategies developed. How do you look at this ruling in the greater context of rights for lgbtq americans . In other words, this speaks to employment specifically. Well, i think, again, it is huge. Marriage equality was a big deal for lots of gay men and women across the country. But arguably protection of your livelihood is enormous. If you can lose your job because you marry a person of the same sex, maybe the right doesnt mean much if you lose your Economic Security. So being able to marry, Economic Security and Employment Security with these other rights is enormous. There was another piece of news today out of the Supreme Court. It was a nondecision really or multiple nondecisions. The Supreme Court punted on attempts to expand the Second Amendment. Also not sitting well with conservatives, what is the logic on this ruling . This i think was more surprising because there were actually ten cases on the cert docket that the court could have taken up. They decided not to hear any of those cases, including two cases where there was a split in two different circuits. Typically where two different circuits decide the same issue in different ways, the court obviously will want to step in. They didnt do that here and it prompted a blistering defense and he stepped in to say that the court always steps up for fundamental rights except where those fundamental rights involve gun rights. One of the issues here is it only takes four people to grant cert. Here you definitely had four people who were willing to hear a gun rights case. But i think theyre worried that chief Justice Roberts is not on the same page as they are in terms of expanding Second Amendment protections and they didnt want to chance it. These all go back into the hopper and well wait to see what new Second Amendment issues arise before the court in the next term. Melissa, always a treat to talk with you. Always a treat. Thanks for having me. Coming up, msnbc on acts of every day racism across the country. Theyre going to join me just ahead. Itching for a treat. Itching for an outing. Or itching for some cuddle time. But you may not know when hes itching for help. Licking for help. Or rubbing for help. If your dog does these frequently. They may be signs of an allergic skin condition that needs treatment. Dont wait. Talk to your veterinarian and learn more at itchingforhelp. Com. It is only monday, but it is fair to say between the Supreme Court rulings today and the fda rescinding the president s coronavirus miracle drug, hes already having a bad week. The weekend wasnt so great either. Partly because the president hasnt been transparent about things like his finances or his health. And because hes not transparent, it causes people to ask questions. Remember, his first doctor admitted that candidate donald trump himself dictated a letter saying if elected he would be, quote, the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency. In 2018 trumps First White House physician claimed he was in such good shape, quote, if he had a healthier diet over the last 20 years, he might live to be 200 years old, end quote. Even though that same physical revealed he had evidence of Heart Disease and was borderline obese. It was early seven months ago that the president made an urgent even scheduled trip to the hospital. Nobody explained why when the white house is equipped to deal with most minor medical issues. This weekend there were two moments in the president s speech in west point that gave me pause. First the right turn raised a glass of water with his right hand before using his left hand to push the glass towards his mouth. Then he exited the stage down what looked like a normal ramp in a slow and cautious manner. Thats not all. Trump then drew attention to it defensively tweeting that the ramp was steep and slippery and lying about running the last ten feet. He didnt. The president has made the health of his opponents a Major Campaign issue in the past. He did it in 2016 with Hillary Clinton and doing it again now with joe biden. There is no reason that someone with a health issue cannot or should not be president. We have had great president s who battled physical adversity, but this president cannot have it both ways. He cannot make questionable claims about the health of others while revealing nothing about himself. We need transparency about the health of this nations leader. What we saw this weekend is enough to say, mr. President , why dont you tell us the truth about your health . Businesses are starting to bounce back. But what if you could do better than that . Like adapt. Discover. Deliver, in new ways, to new customers. What if you could come back stronger . Faster. Better. At comcast business, we want to help you not just bounce back, but bounce forward. And now, with one of our best offers ever, were committed to helping you do just that. Get a powerful and reliable internet and voice solution for only 29. 95 a month for three months. Call or go online today. For the past three weeks there have been protests against Police Brutality in response in multiple Police Killings of africanamericans, but there are incidents of everyday racism that continue to be recorded and shared online. Heres one that happened last week in San Francisco when a white couple called the police after they saw a man, a person of color, writing black lives matter in chalk onto the side of his own property. Hi. Im asking you if this is your property. Why are you asking . Because its private property. Well, because its private property, sir. So are you defacing private property . If i did live here and it was my property, this would be absolutely fine. And you dont know if i live here or if this is my property. We actually do know thats why were asking. Because you live here. No, because we know the person who does live here. Then, i suggest you call him or call the police. Im not going to call the police. Because youre accusing me of a crime, correct . What is your first name, sir . Youre talking to me. Im asking you the questions. Were not doing anything illegal. Neither am i. Actually you are. This is private property. Well, then call the cops. We will do that. Lisa and robert, ill be right there. Thank you. And that, people, is why black lives matter. Her to leash her dog, which is what youre supposed to do in central park. This happened a few hours after george floyd was killed. In San Francisco i love how that guy ended up. He did exactly everything youre supposed to do. He did not feel obliged to answer any of their questions. He just continued to do what he knew he was entitled to do and let them go off and do what they thought they needed to do. And theyre suffering the consequences for that. But it could go the other way, thats the danger, right . He said something interesting. I had somebody tweet me and say why didnt he just tell them that was his place. Tell me why people of color dont have to do that, dont have to answer the questions about whether this is my place or not. Because for the same reason that i didnt stop recording the behavior on my iphone when that woman threatened to call the police on me and tell them an africanamerican was threatening her life. You dont participate in your own dehumanization. You dont give them the power to determine your actions when youre not doing anything wrong, or alter your behavior to comply to their wishes to give into their desire to be satisfied, to be comforted, to have their unwarranted fears placated by you justifying your existence. You just dont do it. Its against any principle of human dignity. Trymaine lee, you actually documented these things. Some people call them microaggressions, but thats a difficult term because it seems small. The consequence of these things, including what happened to mr. Cooper, could be very consequential. He said he doesnt want to speculate but when somebody calls and says theres an africanamerican threatening my life, that could be dangerous. These everyday forms of racism or microaggression, they happen so routinely that they almost seem benign but they are anything but. When you call for an armed response for people sitting in a starbucks or asleep in your dorm room or renting an airbnb or bird watching in central park, you are immediately putting that mans life in danger. Any interaction with police and black folks, especially given how weve been criminalized over time, weve seen these outcomes. We also like to give cute names. We call them karen or you find some way to poke fun at it. But this is really dangerous. Think about John Crawford just a few years ago in a walmart who picked up a toy gun off the shelf and within Seconds Police arrived to shoot him dead because he was being targeted and followed by customers inside because of fear of some shoplifting or what. Again, his own flesh was criminalized. So it happens so often we think its nothing, but these are part of a bigger spoke that once they get rolling, weve seen some very, very dangerous outcomes. Mr. Cooper, and im sorry to talk about you in the third person when trymaine is here and i know youre here and can answer for yourself. The woman who did this to you as apologized. The woman who did this to the gentleman in San Francisco has apologized. Both of them have suffered consequences, as in the case in San Francisco, her husband was fired from his job as well. What is supposed to happen . Do you think theres a lesson to be learned that im full of these little racist sentiments because i think people are uncomfortable with the idea that they might actually be racists. Well, we all make assumptions, thats human nature. We look at people and we judge based on how they present themselves, their hair, their clothes, all sorts of manner of presentation. We make snap judgments about people, thats human nature, thats not going to change. The problem with it is that people in these cases are not just making snap judgments based on clothes or hair but also on skin color. That becomes another factor. And the other problem is that when these snap judgments are made, too often they lead to dire consequences like the death of george floyd or the death of particularly ahmaud arbery, the young man who went jogging in georgia and was chased down by two white guys in a white van simply for going jogging because they made an assumption based on his skin color that he was up to no good and he ended up dead. They said selfdefense and almost got away with it. I guess the point is we all make assumptions but youve got to check yourself. If youre going to make an assumption before you make that stupid, boneheaded comment, before you insert yourself into the situation, check yourself. Why am i doing this . Is race really a factor here . And nine times out of ten i think you might find unfortunately, yes. Were you surprised that the woman with whom you had that interaction actually made it about race . You might have assumed that was where she was going or where her assumptions were coming from, but the idea that she said im going to call she must have seen you were videotaping you were taping this on your phone. Im going to call and say theres an africanamerican Man Threatening my life and then she did that. Its beyond belief that it actually happened. Yeah. It was thats why i put it up on my Facebook Page because im like this one is a doozy. Because i had no idea it was going to take a racial current until she did that. I mean she even goes so far as to telegraph it and say, oh, this is what im going to do. Im like okay. Then she pulls down her mask for easy identification purposes. And then just to get peta riled up she starts throwing the dog by the collar. It was a perfect storm of what are you doing . So yeah. Like i said what a remarkable, remarkable development. In a normal world wed have talked earlier than now but so much has happened in this time that we couldnt. Trymaine, i think ive heard a lot in the last three weeks of a lot of africanamericans saying to white people who are curious about how they can change the way they do things, how do i learn about this and africanamericans saying its not really our job to teach you. But what can white people who dont think theyre racist but in both of these instances did something that lets not sugar quote it coat it, were racist. What can they do to unlearn that behavior or to not do it . I mean first and foremost, youve got to drop the ego, drop the privilege. Ive talked to experts who engage with antiracist work who always say weve heard a lot recently. Its not enough to not be a racist, you have to be an antiracist, especially when it comes to hardwired racist beliefs that are so much of american life. But you have to listen and be open. And the thing called google. You can just punch a few things in the search bar and youll get a lot. Go to a library. But you have to recognize a thing for what it is at first. It may not be racism in the sense youre trying to use racial epithets or burn crosses in yards, but the everyday slights. The everyday little pokes that white it takes a toll on our mental, physical, and spiritual health. Go out, read a book, talk to your neighbor. Learn a few things. Mr. Cooper, im glad youre here to have a conversation with us. Christian cooper. Trymaine lee, the podcast is into america is about the killing. The 11th hour with Brian Williams starts now. Good evening once again. Day 1,243 of the Trump Administration. 141 days to go now until the president ial electio