Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20200914

To take the information and protect their families. But just imagine what would have happened if he told the truth, mika. But he cant. He cant. Thats the amazing thing. You look at woodward and you look at this book, and he is so twisted and contorted what the truth is. You have to admit, he is a symbol of a pretty huge perso l personalty cult, who are those people . Am i talking about you . I dont know. Maybe if you hear an audio tape of the president of the United States admitting he lied to americans when about 200,000 people died, if you think that that is Bob Woodwards fault, that the president s own voice is fake news, you too may be in a personality cult. Call your doctor and check and see. If youre in a country and nothing matters. Thats what happened in this presidency, nothing matters, what do you have left . Were going to show, actually. Its something about donald trump. Constant confession with donald trump whether he means it or not. Were going to show a superspreader rally thats held inside, without masks for most of the people in the audience. Just like the president mocking people Wearing Masks at his last rally. You dont have to read Bob Woodwards book to know that this president continues to ignore the doctors in his own white house as we reach a death toll over three times see how fast i can do the math there over three times, actually, as big as the number of americans who died over 20 years in vietnam. It is monday, september 14th. Along with joe and me, we have nbc news capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt who, beginning next monday i want the lightening bolt. Will be the host of way too early with kasie hunt at 5 00 a. M. Were not letting go of kasie dc. Well figure this out together. Were so excited to have you in the family. 5 00 a. M. Eastern right before morning joe, i can call you at 4 00 like i always do and this time i wont be waking you up. So awesome. Thats true. Thank you so much, guys. Im so excited. The host of msnbcs politics nation, reverend al sharpton. And author, jon meacham. And Political Correspondent for nbc news and msnbc, Steve Kornacki is with us this morning. Also well have the latest on the wildfires that continue to rage across the west coast. The death toll is on the rise. And tens of thousands of people in california, oregon, and washington have been forced to flee their homes. That and were tracking a number of new storms developing in the atlantic. One in the gulf of mexico where Tropical Storm sally is strengthening and expected to become a hurricane today. First, today marks 50 days until the election. 50. And 15 days until the first debate. The latest Fox News National poll shows joe biden with a 5 point lead over donald trump, 51 to 46 . And new battleground state polling out this morning is showing joe biden and President Trump statistically tied in several states, first in arizona for the latest poll of likely voters finds biden ahead by 10, 52 to 42 . The latest cbs news yougov poll, this one of registered voters has biden leading by three points, 47 to 44 . A tie there. In minnesota, where early, inperson voting begins in just four days, the cbs news yougov poll gives biden a 9 point lead, 50 to 41 . And the latest New York Times polls showed body cameras ahead. In wisconsin biden holds a five point lead 48 to 43 . Nevada biden leads by 4 points, 46 to 42. A statistical tie. In New Hampshire biden leads by 3, 45 to 42 , another statistical tie. A lot of close races here. Everybody said it was going to tighten up as we get closer to the end. It is tightening up. First of all, minnesota still, even though it was has been the epicenter of so many of these protests. Minnesota still in the biden camp in two polls. That has been for four years now a dream of Donald Trumps campaign or three and a half pi minnesota. Right now it certainly doesnt look like thats going to happen. Wisconsin also, these polls of five points, a series of polls a couple days before had biden up by 8 points. So its interesting, across the upper midwest you have joe biden doing, i think, better than his campaign would have expected. But lets now go to the sunbelt where he is doing i wont say worse than expected but where hes underperforming based on where he is in these other september polls and thats in florida and arizona. In one arizona poll its tight, as dan rather would say, as a tick, at about 3 points. And then another one that has biden up by 10 points. But the underlying issue here, of course, the latino vote. Biden is underperforming among latinos. Still way ahead of donald trump. But underperforming what Hillary Clinton did just four years ago. Thats obviously a concern to people like Michael Bloomberg and other latino leaders are starting to address. If you look at the polling out there, including florida, our poll in florida last week has the race tied overall. If you look inside the numbers in florida and the polls youre talking about from the midwest. The consistent thing weve been seeing is wherever you are theres significant erosion for donald trump relative to 2016 in his support among white voters. Wisconsin, you have this poll from the New York Times where its a 5 point lead from biden overall. You look inside those numbers and see trump is winning with noncollege white voters in wisconsin but not the same margin he won in 2016 now not just losing white voters with College Degrees hes getting lapped by joe biden. As you mentioned, really when you look in florida and to a lesser degree but some degree when you look at arizona, the Trump Campaign has been able to find a bit of an offset to that erosion. In florida they found a big offset to that erosion. That is the support among cuban american voters. Thats our poll last week, statewide in florida, a big part of that is the cuban american vote, that trump leads by 4 points in florida, statewide among hispanic voters. In a state like arizona hispanic is an umbrella term there, hispanic is not cuban american like florida so you dont see trump making the strides to the degree he did in arizona. You have our poll that put biden ahead by 5. One thing to keep in mind about arizona, thats a state trump won by three and a half points in 2016. If you look at the low number, a biden lead of four, a trump margin of three and a half, that number is closer than wisconsin, a lot of other states. But its still a significant journey for democrats from where they finished in 2016. The margin in arizona was not like wisconsin, pennsylvania, it was not a fraction of a point, it was a sold three and a half point margin. It does speak to the broader National Trend of donald trump still winning among white voters but not nearly the degree he did in 2016. So much of what i do is based when i look at these numbers and get near elections, its based on my experience and sort of a gut instinct on how things break. You actually study this and actually know the numbers and know the percentages like the back of your hand. Im curious, when he start, i usually tell people when you start seeing candidates over 50 well, let me start the other way. When you see incumbents under 50 , traditionally that has been a very bad sign, especially an Approval Rating that hasnt happened, of course, that hasnt been a truism so much over the past five, six, seven years. But were seeing joe biden get a lot of 50 , 51 , 52 , even the wisconsin poll its 51 to 46 . How significant is it instead of what wed see four years ago trump at 41, hillary at 43. Were now see 50 to 44 . Whats the importance of either one of these candidates having a five as the first number in these polling results . I think its likely more significant this time, in 2016, because unlike 2016, you dont have Third Party Candidates that are registering at four, five, six percent in the polling right now. And youre not on a trajectory where we had had where a gary johnson could get 4 . Where the Third Party Candidates could gobble up enough of the vote where Hillary Clinton could only get to 48 nationally, trump could only get to 46 nationally. Youre now looking at a situation where all the polling is suggesting that the vast, vast majority of the vote is going to be a twoparty vote. Its either biden or trump. In that case if biden hits a situation like Hillary Clinton hit in 2016 where he doesnt grow much between now and election day, Hillary Clinton in october of 2016 started november 2016 she wasnt growing her support. She just kind of stayed at 48 and ended up again creating that situation where trump could win the Electoral College. If biden is over 50 and you dont have a Significant Third Party vote. Then 50 plus 1 thats a traditional election would win that. I think theres some room when i look in the numbers theres some room for growth for trump. I say that because theres a disconnect and thats been steady for a while in the polls of two or three points in terms of where he runs in the headtohead with biden and Approval Rating, running at 43 against biden in wisconsin. His Approval Rating in wisconsin is 45 . So theres room for that 43 to jump to 45 to match the Approval Rating. But like youre saying with an absence of Third Party Candidates gobbling up the vote, if biden can get to 50. 1 in wisconsin, even with that jump for trump, that would leave him behind. With polls showing the race in florida tightening, bloomberg said he will spend 100 million to help joe biden win the state with a heavy focus on latino outreach. He pledged during the primary to use his fortune to help the eventual democratic nominee defeat trump. Three sources tell the Washington Post that senator Bernie Sanders warned associates that biden is at serious risk of losing the election if he continues his more centrist approach. Sanders wants biden to talk about health care and his economic plans. And thinks biden should campaign more with people who are poplulr among young liberals like alexandria ocasiocortez. Senator sanders was asked about the report yesterday morning. What i have said privately is what i said publicly. That is, i think, biden is in an excellent position to win this election, but i think we have got to do more as a campaign than just go after trump. Trump is a disaster. I think most people know it. But we also have to give people a reason to vote for joe biden. And joe has strong positions on the economy. And i think we should be talking about that more than we have. Well, yeah. There are a lot of things that you have to consider, including not chasing off, as we were just saying, hispanic voters, especially in the state of florida. Well just leave it there. Jon meacham, everett dirksome said, i think he said, if not please correct me if im wrong me, a billion here, a billion there, after a while youre starting to talk about real money. Thats, of course, what Mike Bloomberg has, real money, lots of billions here and there, now hes talking about putting 100 million yesterday saying bloomberg is putting 100 million into the race. I said, thats cute. Then she goes, in florida. I said, wait a second. I was like, okay, thats a horse of a different color. Thats actually pretty significant. Again, going back to this hispanic outreach, im just curious your thoughts of bloombe bloomberg, who, of course, i still personally think changed the race in his own way when he got in earlier, moving it more to the center. But im curious what your thoughts are on bloombergs very significant entrance into this race. I havent talked to the mayor or his folks about this. But there is a great possible rich historical irony at hand. Which is whatever you think about Mike Bloomberg, he is a data driven guy. If you present him with a case that is backed up by numbers that not smoking does this or not drinking 64 ounces of fructo fructose syrup might make you healthier, hell take steps to make Public Policy in line with fact. Could there be any more opposite an example of a political sensibility in the age of trump than someone who is data driven . So in the state of florida were going to have these two polls of american life. Someone based entirely on fact and someone who has no even a nodding acquaintance with fact in the incumbent president facing off in that complicated and historically fraught state. Theres a wonderful test case for the enlightenment itself down in florida. One other thing just for the dork quotient for the morning. When you look at the numbers that you were showing, its still even knowing how complicated and divide a country we are, it is still really striking, isnt it that 44, 46 of people are saying, yeah, lets sign up for this guy. I want four more years of this. Thats a pretty big number. I was sitting here thinking about, you know, weve only had three significant landslide elections in modern times, right, 1964, 1972, 1984. Most elections are much closer than those three. Almost impossible because of Structural Partnership to think of a johnson, a nixon in 72 or a reagan in 84 winning. And thats given the choice we have before us, thats really worth stopping and thinking about. Kasie and i were talking last night on the mash farewell of news programs joe, you were watching, werent you . Yes. It was great. The farewell. We had but it was its about what is its not just about him anymore. Its about us. Its about why we are following, 45, 46, up to 48 of the country thinks, yeah, this is a good idea. And its become an existential question. It really has. I and it is a question that i just dont ask at waves crashing against the shore. I talk on the phone with my friends who and some family members who still support him. And who used to be conservative. And who used to believe the things that Ronald Reagan believed. I think they still think they are. They arent. But you talk to them and go through the list and say, listen, i warned you that this is guy was a big spending democrat. You can look at the tapes through 2016. I kept saying hes not a conservative, hes a big spending democrat. Hes going to run up deficits. Hes going to run up debt. All the things we fought for our entire lives, hes going to destroy and were going to go deeper into debt. They dont care about debt anymore, they dont care about deficits anymore. They dont care about balanced budgets anymore. Nato, in the scarborough family being a cold war warrior, that was pretty much up there when it came to being a conservative. They dont care anymore. They dont care that donald trump wants to get rid of nato. Undermined nato any way he can. Either head on or bit by bit, piece by piece. They dont care he goes to helsinki and denigrates and attacks the men and women who we conservatives have been defending our entire lives, the intel community, and calling democrats antiamerican or unpatriotic or whatever when they were constantly attacking our men and women, the professionals in the cia, the fbi and the National Security apparatus. But thats fine. Th theyre fine because its donald trump who says i believe Vladimir Putin instead of the intel communities. They really dont care. Its on tape. He calls men and women who have dedicated their entire lives to defending this country, to protecting this country, men and women who have spent years away from their own families overseas, in remark, iraq, in afghanistan, before that many in vietnam. He called those people, quote, suckers. By the way, this is on tape. Donald trump calling them suckers and losers. Its on tape. Thats the sort of thing, my god, we used to get so angry when we thought democrats were insufficient support ivive of troops. Remember what politicians did to mcgovern, a war hero suggesting that he was unpatriotic. Max klenan perhaps, a guy who gave a little bit to the country. John kerry, won the purple heart, a lot of republicans said that was a scam. Insufficiently patriotic thats what they said of war heroes who gave their all in war. Now were saying of our generals and admirals who are running the United States military proudly by the way, one of the few institutions other than the post office that still has the respect of the majority of americans donald trump calls them suckers, calls the war dead losers and suckers, you know its true. Yeah they still support him, jon meacham. They still support him, rev. They still support him. And even with the woodward tapes yes, tapes. Even with the woodward tapes, with his voice on the tapes, you got donald trump saying who are you going to believe . Me or your lying ears . Its so clear. He lied to americans, 200,000 people are going to be dead americans very soon. And ill say it, yes, many of them, i think history will probably conclude about half of them but well see what history says, died because donald trump kept lying to the American People because panic . It wasnt about panic. He panics us every day. It was all about the bottom line. It was all about money. It was all about the stock market. And yes, im sure it was all about his own businesses and all the money theyve been losing. But the support is still there, 44, 45 of americans because theyre so driven by this fear of the other side that joe biden is some wildeyed crazy, left wing democrat. The 40someodd percent is still there, so the mistake the democrats need to avoid, is rather than just continue to try to convince them what they dont even believe when they see with their own eyes or hear with their own ears. You must energize and bring out the over 50 of americans that are either believing in what you are saying or are open to believing it because they are somewhere in the middle. Thats why i think its significant when you have a Mike Bloomberg, not only putting 100 billion in florida but putting in data to project where that money and other resources will be able to target latino voters that appear to be going the other way, a large black voting base and others. I think one of the mistakes that the democrats made in the 72 race with mcgovern that you mentioned or the 04 race with kerry is trying to convince people to come their way. And that is wise. But not as wise as also putting a lot of energy into trying to bring out the voters that you really already have with you in terms of policy but have not really been energized to come out. You just had a court ruling in florida that in many ways impacted those exfelons being able to vote that the state voted for. So i think we really need to focus on using the data for the turnout and for the independent voters and we dont need extremists on either side trying to distract us from that. We that have been talking about policing should be denouncing the shooting of these two Law Enforcement people in california just like we denounce shooting by police. We cannot in way be morally inconsistent and not strategic in how we fight this fight. Reverend al thank you for bringing up the issue of the two Young Police Officers with children at home who got ambushed and shot and for condemning that. I wanted to just bring that up and i know that you were going to have harsh words for the protesters that blocked the entrance of the hospital and were shouting that they hoped that these police officers, these Young Police Officers with children at home they were chanting that they hoped these protesters hoped that they died. Hoped that they died. How sick. How absolutely sick some people are out there. What should the message be from those 25 million Peaceful Protesters in the black lives matter protests to those people shouting those sick, vile comments about men and women who dedicate their lives to protecting and serving not just the people of los angeles but all of america. I think that the protesters that have been, for months out there now, i among them, should be saying we are not antipolice and we are certainly not for killing or shooting police. We are there saying that police should not be wrongfully shooting or killing civilians, particularly in the black community. And for people to try to associate us with murder and ambushing and death is doing more to hurt the cause than anything else. Some, i suspect, in my own way of thinking could be planted in order to hurt us because that is so extreme from our position. Let me be real clear. I pray for the lives of those two officers just like i pray for jacob blake, who was shot in the back seven times in kenosha, wisconsin, and i pray for the family of george floyd. I pray for them all in the same prayer. I dont have separate prayers for Police Victims and police, the same pray. This is where we must be. This is the dr. King tradition, what meacham wrote about with john lewis and anyone on the other side, whether they claim theyre left or right are wrong. Thats what they are. Well look at the catastrophic situation out west now. Wildfires raging in the west have killed at least 33 people with dozens of others missing, tens of thousands more forced to flee their homes in california, oregon and washington as well. In california where fires have charred over 3 million acres and destroyed about 4,000 structures. The number of dead reached 22 on saturday. And the death toll is likely to climb with oregon officials warning of a mass fatality incident. California department of forestry and Fire Protection said so far more than 16,000 firefighters have been called to battle the 28 major wildfires the state has faced so far this year. Later today President Trump will visit mcclelland park, california where hell meet with officials and be briefed on the firefighters. Joe biden is expected to deliver a speech today on the ongoing fires and the need to tackle the climate crisis. Lets bring in meteorologist bill karins tracking the fire conditions out west and more active Tropical Weather in the atlantic and gulf coast. Bill . Good morning. Climates a big part of this. The west is warming faster than any other location in the lower 48. The drought ongoing in the west, so much fuel to burn. And the air quality this weekend was horrendous. Off the charts bad. People had to stay indoors and not go outside. We have dense smoke advisory, red flag warnings, theres relief thats going to come this week. We need to clear out the air mass, the air is horrendous in the west. We need the wind to come and blow in a different direction to give them breathing room. Lets talk about the tropics. Bermuda went through the eye of hurricane pualette this morning. Tropical storm teddy formed out in the atlantic. All eyes right now are on Tropical Storm sally because thats the one moving towards new orleans, mobile, all day today and later tomorrow. This is a huge flooding threat. Not a big hurricane like laura was, this is a slow moving hurricane, we can see slow systems be more destructive and deadly than powerful ones. Notice it slowly rains itself out over mississippi, alabama, georgia. 8 Million People are in flad watches. Its not often i show you a flood map that has as much as two feet of rain possible from eastern louisiana to southern mississippi, mobile over to pensacola. We will see a storm surge too. Joe you know this from living down in north florida. A category one doesnt scare a lot of people but a slow moving category one is a different ball game. This is a huge life threatening flood risk over the next two, three days. A lot of times some of the smaller storms when they come in and they stall and they just dump inches of rain on an area and tornados, of course, shoot off of it, it really can create real devastation for some of these areas. A lot this storm system is going to be compared to possible harvey and florence. Theyre saying this could be a harvey and florence situation, anyone that lived through those, that opens your eyes immediately. Okay. Bill, thank you very much. Still ahead on morning joe, another Campaign Rally turned superspreader event. Hosted by the president. This time in nevada. Held inside. Well talk about his blatant disregard for state restrictions. Plus, a new surge of coronavirus in parts of the midwest that have so far avoided the worst of this pandemic. Why . Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Watching e well be right back. Cancer wont wait. It wont wait for appointments to open up or test results to come back. 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Do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. Most common side effects were nausea and tiredness. Ask about ubrelvy. The anytime, anywhere migraine medicine. As amy first jober, is to care for derek. Everything i do is for him. When i moved to this apartment after six months, we need to connect with the world. I use the internet to keep him in the language, because thats the way to connect to my familys traditions. He has to know where he comes from. We need internet essentials. Theres no excuse to not get connected. Nothing more could have been done. Nothing more could have been done. Nothing more could have been done. Does he remember what he told me back in february about its more deadly than the flu . I mean, it almost took my breath away that there was such certainty when he was absolutely wrong about the issue that defines the position of this country right now. That was bob woodward in an interview on 60 minutes that aired last night. Well have bob on wednesday. And we want to show you how, actually, donald trump proved Bob Woodwards point in a little bit. But jon meacham. I want to go back to what youre saying. If you read ann applebalms book, marsha gastons book and the rise of aweutocautocrasy, so mu about numbing people so much that not only do they not know the difference between lies and truth, they dont care. Heres a wonderful example of that that future historians can look back upon. And Trump Supporters and many of my friends have been saying, joe, this is no worse than the flu for six months, its just like the flu. You have people on some of the president s favorite tv stations saying the same thing. And yet donald trump himself, in february, said this is so much more deadlier than the flu. Five times as deadly as the flu. Its deadly. Its airborne, its terrible. Thats what donald trump said on tapes. And yet, the truth doesnt matter to so many of these people. Again, people ive known and loved my entire life. Its really breathtaking to see how this has worked over the past four years. The truth does for so many people the truth doesnt matter. In fact, nothing matters when it comes to donald trump. Well, they have their own truth, which is the beginning of the end of commonly agreed upon civilized standards. Right. Its an alternative vision of reality that has its own profits hang on. But what do they do, though, when donald trump is on tape saying, this is much worse than the flu, bob. This is five times worse. This is nasty stuff. This is deadly. Im just curious, theyve been not lying for six months. Theyve been lied to for six months. Its been what many led with, this is no worse than the flu. What are you doing . Why the hysteria . Remember when donald trump was saying this was a hoax pushed by the democrats. That was after donald trump told woodward how deadly this was. Again, what do you do now if youve been lied to for six months by donald trump and you find out youve been lied to for six months . Why do they continue to blindly support this man . Well, the second part is the great question of the age. The answer to how trump himself handles the fact that he inadvertently told the truth by mistake to bob woodward on tape is to say, which he had his press secretary do, that he allegedly said that to bob woodward, we talked about that. The way to respond to inconvenient fact is simply to continue to lie. And what you have to step back and think about is, why is it why are the people youre talking about and i know them too. Why is this working . To this extent. To a 44 to 48 . Where there is still a very live chance this man will be reelected president of the United States. Something that neither jimmy carter nor George Herbert walker bush could do. And that is a live chance. People who think its not a live chance are crazy. What is it about this personality, why is it worked . Part of it has to be, to some extent, people dislike being told what to think. So they, therefore, by at least by traditional seemingly traditional outlets and centers of power. The irony is they have now become cultish in theiro be obedience to a leader who is simply about the per perpetuatif his own power. I think one of the revealing things he said was when he pointed to the white house and said were here, theyre not. Thats the nations house. Its not your house, not the people tearing up the grass. But thats the elmental commerce hes involved in. Its interesting that its real estate. He holds something against the rest of us. And theres something about, in this disorienting moment of globalization, theres something in enough of our hearts and minds that is willing to cede this authority, cede authority to this figure that i think is genuinely putting the entire enlightenment era project of our capacity to use reason in our public life in deep and fundamental jeopardy. Well it is. Mika, it is. And the traditions of liberal democracy, western democracy, you look at it and you by the way, people that vote for donald trump vote for donald trump for whatever reasons they want to vote for donald trump. Im speaking mainly about my friends right now. I just hope they understand exactly what theyre voting for. They know what theyre voting for. A dictator. And what theyre voting for is somebody who has autocratic impulses. And they know that. You have to know after four years of this that Donald Trumps first instingcts are always autocratic, its always hostility to checks and balances. His first instinct is always not to the common good, not to public virtue, not to whats in the best interests of those who vote for them, its whats in his best interest. They have to know that. And if that is who they choose to vote for, they are doing that willingly. Voting ing for a man with clear defined autocratic instincts. Again, if thats the america that they want, then thats the america they get to vote for in 50 days. An american that rejects the basic the most basic tenants of madisonian democracy. I dont say this with the least bit of hysteria in my voice or in my mind or in my heart, im just stating fact right now. And let the people decide. If thats the direction they want to take the country, thats the direction the country will go. And i think there might be some who would say, joe youre being high and mighty its called fact. The fact is his leadership is killing people and those who follow his leadership put themselves at a health risk. Thats not trying to be dramatic or extreme. Thats the truth. Lets get to the video. President trump took his Reelection Campaign to henderson, nevada last night just outside of los angeles. It was the first time supporters indoors since his tulsa rally on june 20th. An event that Health Experts later blamed for a surge in local coronavirus cases. Much like the president s other recent campaign events, the crowd was packed in many and few people wore masks. But this time the supporters standing directly behind the president whose faces would end up on television, they were mandated to wear face coverings. Hold on. Youre saying the people behind donald trump yeah. Were required to wear masks. But the people far away from donald trump werent. Thats fascinating. I wonder why that is . Could it be because donald trump cares about donald trump and not you . The event was in defiance of state regulations and also trumps own doctors in terms of what they believe will keep you safe. Inperson gatherings, in doors, outdoors, up to 50 people are the rules. Nevadas governor, Steve Sisolak criticized the president on twitter saying, the president is taking reckless and selfish actions that are putting countless lives in danger here in nevada. Kasie, we saw it in tulsa where they squeezed everyone together in a sweaty room, 6,000 people. They wanted 22,000 to show up. He didnt get the crowd he wanted, so they squished everyone together, herman kane was there, he did die a few minutes later. Not sure where he got it, but he was there. Its not me talking. Its not me and josing its Donald Trumps doctors. This is Donald Trumps doctors. We always have this question about the republicans standing by this president. The moral inconsistency, maybe they did live with that on some levels, but his leadership is killing people. Like whats the answer to that . I think you laid it out exactly right. I dont think there is an answer. You think about all the people who have lost their livelihoods because they are following these state regulations all of the sports teams, all of the concert venues, all of the people that work in those kinds of big environments, theyre all at home because we all know that these kinds of events are dangerous. Every governor, every Public Health official whos looking at this is saying dont do this right now. And a lot of americans are saying im not going to put myself in that situation. But i think one of the differences between this tulsa rally that we had in june where so few people actually showed up and the crowd that we saw in henderson, nevada last night. It shows you what the president has been saying to his supporters has really sunk in and its likely contributing to the fact that were still struggling to get this pandemic under control. And that it potentially really jeopardizes all of us. All of these people in this crowd and the photos of the people who have to wear masks half have it off their face or under their nose. Theyre deu siding this isnt really, believing what the president said to them. This is why what the president said in public and what he said to bob woodward is astonishing. Set aside all the real ramifications for all of us stuck at home, who cant get our kids to school, cant find child cared, all of that. This is a president who has demonstrated time and time again he has focused on himself. The question i struggle with, if he knew this at the time and he says to bob woodward this is dangerous we have to do something about it, joe you have been saying over and over again, we solve the medical crisis, the economic crisis, maybe the president can get reelected again. I had sources say this to me, too, everyone else it boggles the mind why he wouldnt say wear masks in march. Whats so revealing is he told bob woodward in february, he knew at the end of january how dangerous this was, deadly this was. His own National Security advisor said this was going to be the biggest crisis he faced and matthew pottinger, a guy who trump knew was hooked in, keyed in, someone he knew and liked completely agreed and basically told donald trump it was going to be a nightmare. Donald trump went out and held huge rallies in the coming weeks, including rallies in michigan where he said this is just 15 people soon its going to be down to zero. Texas, arizona. Continuing to say that he was going to have these rallies. It was no big deal. He even said at one rally think about this to my dear friend who is dont understand why everybody wouldnt vote for donald trump. Donald trump called this a democratic hoax, right. He called this a democratic hoax. By the time he said this was the latest democratic hoax, his National Security advisor had said mr. President , this is going to be the greatest crisis of your presidency. His trade representative had written him a memo that said, mr. President , 500,000 souls in america could die from this. His head of his department of health and Human Services had come to him and issued bleak warnings about this. He had already heard from matthew pottinger, again a china hawk, somebody who had been on the phone with hong kong, had been on the phone with his contacts in china and he said, whats is this going to be as bad as 2003. And the answer came back, no. You need to be thinking more like the spanish flu of 1918. Despite this. Having all this information, donald trump kept holding massive rallies, and called this a democratic hoax. And said it was one person coming in from china, it was going to be gone. And then said a month later it was just 15 people coming in from china and soon it would be down to zero. And he told senators, in march, republican senators in march, dont worry about it, nothing to it. Its going away. And we can go on and on, youve heard all of this before, but he said all of this knowing the truth from his own people. Not from democrats. From the people he put in place. And any other area the man would likely be bankrupt from the lawsuits from the families of dead americans who relied on his lies. And probably, if he had done this for a corporation, probably be put in jail. And reverend, al, you know, so much of this is on the hes not owning the libs, hes trying to own the virus and its just not working. Almost 200,000 americans are dead. Were now moving to a point where twice as many people will have died from this virus that donald trump said was one person coming in this from china. Twice as many than died fighting in world war i. But its so interesting. You know, when you held your massive march, you knew to be outside, you checked temperatures, you made people wear masks and everywhere you went people had masks. And donald trump knew that. He knows that he could have held an event outside. That he could have required people to wear masks. But instead, he risked those peoples lives last night just to make a political point. That is breathtaking by any standards. Even Donald Trumps. And what is so egregious about this, its just the most despicable conduct you can imagine, is while we have the tapes of woodward, with his own voice exposing this to america, while woodward is on 60 minutes and laying this out at the same time he goes and holds this rally indoors with people not wearing face masks. The arrogance of risking peoples lives to try and make some political hay and to demonstrate and exhibit his inflexibility with reality. Were talking about scientific facts. Were talking about almost 200,000 people dying. Were not talking about something that is possible. Were talking about something that has happened and is continueding continuing to happen and his own experts say could get worse. In the midst of that he decides im going back indoors, im going to have thousands of people, not require them to wear masks. There could be nothing more opposite of reality than what hes doing. That is the ultimate cultism. Heres the question. Coming up, could President Trump or the rnc face legal trouble for defying state restrictions and holding his indoor rally in nevada . That plus we check in with the Washington Posts bob costa for his latest reporting. Morning joe will be right back. Were at 180,000. Other countries are doing terribly. Did you see the statistics of us compared to other countries, us compared to europe . We have done an incredible job. We get absolutely no credit. You know why . Because you havent done an incredible job. Youve done a terrible job. Youve been killing people. Heres what youve done, actually. Youve taken a country that is exceptional, got the best doctors in the world it was great. The best scientists in the world, the best Research Facilities in the world, the best colleges and universities in the world, you know, when sheiks in saudi arabia or billionaires across the world are sick, where do they come . They come here. They come to the United States. When people want their children to go to the best Research Universities in the world, where do they send them . They send them here. They send them to the United States. I know that youve heard this stat before, but it bears repeating. That since 1950, the United States of america has won its scientists have won over 50 of all nobel prizes for science. Its secondtonone. And yet because of the blizzard of lies that donald trump has been telling about the coronavirus, because he refused to prepare for the coming storm that he knew about back before anybody had died in america we are a country, yes, a country i believe that is exceptional. I believe in american exceptionalism. That country that has 4. 5 of the worlds population is now responsible for about 1 in every 4 deaths globally. Think about that. What a shameful, shameful statistic. Think about all the heroes of world war ii and of the korean war and of vietnam that have died alone in hospitals separated from their loved ones, from their children, from their grandchildren, from their spouses, and have died unnecessarily. Its happened from florida to arizona, up to Washington State and across to maine. Its happened because these heroes were lied to. And so, no, we havent done a great job. In fact, weve done a really miserable job and when you consider american exceptionalism, Donald Trumps track record goes from bad to worse. He played that song, im proud to be an american. I am. I am. Im proud to be an american for so many reasons, but part of it is that american exceptionalism that donald trump could have used, and he chose not to time and time again. Kasie hunt and reverend al sharpton are still with us and joining the conversation political reporter for the Washington Post and msnbc political analyst robert costa, the moderator of Washington Week on pbs. And historian and distinguished professor of Global Affairs at the Johns Hopkins school of advanced international studies, hall brands is back with us. Good to have you back with us this morning. Bob costa lets go over a couple quick polls. Lets start the hour the way we did last hour, minnesota a couple polls showing joe biden ahead of donald trump by nine points. Nevada four points. New hampshire tighter than any other polls three points. So it looks its sort of a tale of two campaigns. Donald trump appears to be losing ground day by day in the upper midwest, from minnesota to wisconsin to michigan. Joe biden really seems to be consolidating up there. Yet you look at the sunbelt, florida and arizona, where joe biden is not seen as putting enough effort in to winning over latino, hispanic votes and those races are tightening up. Whats the race look like to you 50 days out based on your reporting . Based on my reporting, its clear biden has the advantage at this point. But the Trump Campaign when you talk to them and their allies in the republican party. Theyre still looking at this law and order message appeals on white grievance to suburban voters that can maybe turn the tide a bit in the upper midwest everyo area. And looking at the durham probe. Its controversial to have a u. S. Attorney preparing a report during election season but the president im told by his confidants is eager to see that report out. And on the virus, the president continues to tell all of his top Health Experts he wants to see an announcement on a vaccine, hes hopeful on a vaccine. So in the next 50 days between now and the election, those factors are looming over a race thats tightening but still in bidens favor. Its flown under the radar, that durham investigation, where bill barr is pushing as hard as he can to get that investigation done in time for the election, just like the vaccine. Donald trump believes the world began on january the 20th, 2020 im sorry, 2017, and he thinks the world ends on election day. Everything is compressed from vaccines to this investigation where, actually, the Justice Department is investigating the Justice Department. Talk about a banana republic. But its flown under the radar that one of durhams top prosecutors quietly resigned last week because she refused to go along with the charade and expressed real concerns that barr was pressuring them to finish this in time for the election, even though she doesnt think the investigation is anywhere near completed. That was the important story broken by the hartford current. What you see now are questions of the credibility of the durham probe, possibly indictments that come in the coming weeks. And that aspect of credibility is critical as the president or his attorney general make announcements on this front about whether theyre received as anything more than political developments, if theyre seen as real legal matters and these kind of whistleblower reports or resignations are going to be major factors in in the election. The Biden Campaign is trying, im told, not to get swept up in this. Look at biden last wednesday the former Vice President stuck to his economic speech in michigan even when the woodward news broke. Because he knows he needs to turn those voter who is vote on financial interest that scandal or character matters wont be the things that win him a white house. Talking about a vaccine and being the grand fixer of everything against the evil virus, joe, when hes talking about the vaccine that he thinks is coming or it doesnt exist, depending on the moment. The aps Jonathan Lemire attended trumps rally last evening and filed this report, quote, in open defiance of state regulations and his own administrations Pandemic Health guidelines, President Trump on sunday hosted his first indoor rally since june telling a packed nearly maskless nevada crowd that the nation was making the last turn in defeating the virus. Eager to deflect a sense of normalcy, trump soaked up the cheers in the warehouse. Relatively few wore masks with a clear exception, those in the stands behind trump whose images would end up on tv, they were mandated to wear face coverings. Not since a rally in tulsa, oklahoma, that was blamed for a surge of infections, has he gathered people indoors. There was nothing on the fact that the pandemic was claimed nearly 200,000 americans and is still claiming 1,000 lives a day. I wonder did the campaign also make everybody in the crowd click on a disclaimer saying they couldnt sue the Trump Campaign if they contracted the coronavirus and or died from it . They did before. Well look to see if thats the case. But if they follow his Bad Information and then die, whos accountable . Isnt that trump . It certainly should be or the rnc, or whoever is organizing it and allowing it to happen. But, you know, donald trump has said that he could shoot somebody on fifth avenue and his people would be fine with it, and his lawyer has said that he is immune from that. Even if he kills somebody on fifth avenue, as long as hes president of the United States, hes immune on that. But, you know, were talking about obviously, talking about the big takeaways from the woodward book being about coronavirus. But hal brands, the more shocking part of the book for me was looking at his Foreign Policy team flummoxed by this president who refused to listen to their advice, refused to listen to facts, refused to see the world as it was, instead, especially in the case of dan coates, dan coates was so shaken by the president pushing back as much as he did on reality and ordering people to stay away from mentioning russia so much that by the end of his tenure there, he feared that donald trump was unduly influenced by Vladimir Putin. Im really curious what your take is as a noted historian. What your take is on where the United States goes from here with its allies, especially in nato and if donald Trump Leaves Office on january the 20th, 2021, what can we put back together . How quickly can we put the alliances back together . How quickly can we fix all that has been done to the state department and other National Security institutions . So i think there are two scenarios here. One of which is clearly more troubling than the other, but both of which are difficult. The first scenario is, if trump is reelected, i think that sends a signal to u. S. Allies and fpartners around the world that the trump era was not an aberration how the United States interacts around the world. But it was a strategic operation, how the u. S. Works with this type of leadership that we read about in the woodward book. Thats going to be difficult to come back from. Even in if a scenario where joe biden is elected in 2020, its not going to be a quick process to repair some of the damage that the Trump Administration has done. Few look at the hollowing out of institutions like the state department, which is evidenced not simply in the departure of serving officials but in the decline of individuals seeking to enlist in the Foreign Service in the first place. Thats the sort of loss of Human Capital that can take years or longer to prepare. So the Biden Administration will have some tough work cut out for it, particularly in repairing particular relationships in europe and east asia and elsewhere. But also in addressing the longerterm institutional harms. We have a rise of coronavirus cases triggering new alarm fin places for the most part escaped most of the pandemic. North dakota, south dakota, missouri and iowa added more cases than all other states. Testing positivity rates are high across much of the great planes, a sign of uncontrolled spread and insufficient monitoring. The paper reports young adults are helping drive the surge. This as the republican governors of both north and south dakota continue to resist mask requirements. Infections in the dakotas are growing faster than anywhere else in the nation. Driven largely by schools and universities reopening and Mass Gatherings such as the sturgis motorcycle rally. Kasie hunt we all remember the fourth of july event where christy bragged there were not going to be any mask requirements. Were going to have this and there are going to be no mask requirements at all. Again, even now, even now it is extraordinary that you have governors of states who swore an oath to protect and defend their people. You have governors who brag about going against doctors advise to protect people in their own state but she did. She went out of her way to brag about it and now we see the spread in schools. And, of course, she had she was given a platform at the Republican National convention for her trouble. And that motorcycle rally has been linked to an increase in cases there in her state and across the country because, of course, those people who were there came from all over the country and then went back to all of their various corners of the country and potentially put untold numbers of people at risk. And, you know, when you compare whats going on here and what you know youre using the example of kristi noem, not the only politician approaching this. Compare it to just across the border, very close to canada, where they first they just reported their first day of zero coronavirus deaths. They are doing this so differently than we are. There is evidence out there that these recommendations from Public Health officials work. If we follow the rules, it can work. And the fact that we are here struggling to get our kids back into school trying to figure out, our lives are so far from normal right now, a lot of the rest of the world is getting back to normal. Why is that . Its decisions made by politicians and coming down from the top. That math is basic whether youre a republican or democrat. Lets bring in dave aaronberg, i guess the question i have is, isnt there some sort of liability that organizers of events like these potentially face and trump himself flouting his own doctors and giving guidance that is killing people who can be held liable for this . When the science is so basic. Mika, the organizers of these rallies, including the person who hosted the rally at his warehouse can be sued for negligence if someone can prove they got covid at the rally. The problem is causation. You know theres waivers that the campaign make people sign, but i dont think theyll hold up in court because the waivers dont mention negligence. Thats the lawsuit. So they need better lawyering on the Trump Campaign and rnc side. The problem is proving causation. Any plaintiff would have to show they got the virus at that event and because its everywhere, so many super ceding causes its hard to know we still dont know where herman kane got the virus, although we suspect the rally in tulsa. Even if if the waiver is thrown out and you can show negligence theres the assumption of risk. And the defendants would say you came to the rally, you knew that mask requirements and social distancing are merely laughable suggestions at donald trump rallies and you showed up anyway. This is on you. So it would be an uphill battle, not impossible but an uphill battle to sue in civil court the Trump Campaign or the rnc, which shows no one has more contempt for their own supporters than the leaders of the maga universe. You look at the pictures of the rally last night, and people behind donald trump, there are some pictures out right now before the rally. And im told that before the rally, they werent Wearing Masks, but when the president came on stage, they were required to put their masks on, which means Donald Trumps people certainly know that, as he said back in february, how many months ago was that, as he said last winter, this is a very, very dangerous disease, and its airborne. Dave, great points great points on two fronts. One on, youre right, the causation issue. Did herman kane get covid at an event . Did herman kane get covid at a restaurant or somewhere else he had been . Did he get it on a plane traveling there . Its going to be almost impossible to show causation. But youre right, even if you do, right, youre not going to have as strong of a case if you willingly walked into a burning building, you willingly did something that Public Health officials had been telling you for months could kill you, its just extraordinarily hard to win under those circumstances. So i and then beyond that, of course, then we get to the other questions of causation. I wanted to ask you quickly before we let you go about this john durham investigation. It seems that theyre trying to push this as quickly as they can. Im sure donald trump dreams that james comey will be arrested and hauled off to jail a couple weeks before the election. Theyre desperately trying to get something. We heard one of durhams top prosecutors quit the case, the Hartford Courant reporting that because she said they were trying to push it too quickly. What are you looking for in this investigation and can there be any credibility to what the outcome is if theyre pushing it quickly to try to get it done before a president ial election . Joe, theres no credibility to this investigation. This investigation has happened. The Inspector General investigated, they found no crimes. They had the one guy who lied on the fisa application, but otherwise no criminal conduct here. This is a political investigation. This is why bill barr has disgraced my profession of being a prosecutor. Hes supposed to be the top prosecutor in the United States, not President Trumps fixerer. After Michael Cohen went up the river, bill barr became the president s fixer. And that is the tragedy in all this. I credit that career prosecutor for resigning from the case and possibly jeopardizing her job in the middle of a pandemic when its tough to get jobs. But thats a canary in the coal mine, showing an october surprise is coming and its going to be bill barr doing what he can to get the president reelected. But this time the public is onto it. Were not going to be taken by surprise and have it shift opinion one way or another. Theres enough information out there that this is politically motivated and its not going to shift the facts and i dont think its going to move the needle in the end. Now to the wildfires raging in the west which have killed at least 33 people with dozens of others missing and tens of thousands more forced to flee their home in california, oregon and washington. Joining us from ashland oregon, miguel almaguer. What is the latest this morning, miguel . Reporter this is the aftermath of that unfolding situation you were talking about. Thousands of people lost their homes, tens of thousands have been forced to evacuate. Later on in california today, the president will arrive to meet with firefighters to assess the situation. And while this family was lucky to make it out of their home alive, many others were not. As infernos continue to explode across oregon, the search intensifying for dozens of people still missing. 16 fires are burning here, incinerating entire towns. It looks like a bomb went off. Reporter tens of thousands evacuated, many shelltering in parking lots. Officials bracing for mass fatalities. Hundreds of residents left homeless, including those on the front lines, like this fire chief. She and 12 of her volunteer firefighters lost their homes. The human spirit shown right now with the kindness and the support is exactly what all of us needed. Reporter oregon officials now worried these fires may not be put out until november when the rainy season begins. Wildfires burning across much of Washington State and california also. Home to 28 blazes including the north complex fire which levelled the town of berry creek. For steve and leslie, this is a twoyear traumat. In 2018 the couple lost their home to the paradise fire and have been homeless since now their campgrounds have been evacuated because of the smoke. We need help. We absolutely need help. Reporter with california burning through its billion dollar budget to fight fires. Critics say the state isnt doing enough to suppress them. We can get more aggressive. There is something so fundamental that cannot be denied and that is Climate Change. Across the west, lives and livelihoods on the line as this disaster becomes a new permanent reality. Reporter in addition to all of the homes that have been lost, another disaster is unfolding across the west coast. The air quality here is awful, all the way from Southern California to the washington border, smoke shrouds the entire region here and it is toxic for so many breathing it every day. Mika, back to you. Nbcs miguel al maguialalmag thank you so much. Bob costa, what are you looking at . A couple things, the fires, the president going to california. This is a major issue that goes beyond california, it goes to oregon, washington and an effect on the entire western United States. Whats the answer from President Trump as the leader of the federal government. Whats the answer from Vice President biden in terms of bringing Climate Change to the forefront. And the government funding about to expire in a couple weeks in washington, will this force any deal for millions of americans looking to washington to provide them with more stimulus checks, more support. Robert costa, thank you very much. Still ahead on morning joe. The authors of the new book after trump, who top lawyers on how to reconstruct the presidency after the damage caused by this president. And as we go to break, we wanted to read this tweet from gq magazine, julia loffe tweeted this yesterday afternoon, today is the beginning of week five of my having covid19. This time last week i was nearly hospitaliz hospitalized. I am now on the up and up now. But seriously, be careful out there, this thing is no joke. We wish julia well and look forward to having her back here on morning joe. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Ing joe. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Pronamel is formulated to help deliver minerals to the tooths surface to help reharden and strengthen your enamel. Keeping your oysters growing while keeping your business growing has you swamped. you need to hire i need indeed indeed you do. The moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a shortlist of quality candidates from a resume data base so you can start hiring right away. Claim your seventyfivedollar credit when you post your first job at indeed. Com promo joining us now former White House Council to Barack Obama Bob bower, a professor of practice at New York University school of law. Also with us former assistant attorney general, Jack Goldsmith a professor at harvard law school. They are coauthors of the new book after trump, reconstructing the presidency and hal brands is still with us as well. Jack, it seems the attorney general is always on the front lines of partisan attacks i remember in the clinton era a lot of us republicans were upset that janet reno, should would never touch the foreign money part of the scandal, which may have been the big e part of the scandal then democrats were upset at george w. Bush and justification for torture by his a. G. And we can go on and on. But the question is, barr is taking this to new levels. The question is, what do we do after trump to stop future president s from impacting investigations that either involve them or their associates. So we have lots of proposals to deal with this problem because its been a serious problem over the last four years. It starts with who the attorney general is. Theres no substitute for having an attorney general with integrity and having a president who respects the norms of independence that have prevailed for 40 year. We propose to put in place reforms that make the attorney general himself subject to the rules of the department about not commenting on ongoing investigations, something that barr has done quite a lot lately and that is undermining whatever investigations he has going on. He emphasize the role of the obstruction of justice statue in Law Enforcement that has its understood in the department but not well enough. We have a variety of transparency requirements to ensure if the attorney general takes a decision that is that is untoward that at least the public knows about it. Theres only so much you can do because the problem here, and its a problem you just went through the litany of how ever attorney general is accused of being politicized. The problem here is that the Law Enforcement has a political element and a legitimate political element. And the trick is to try to carve off and prevent it from being pl politicized while acknowledging that the attorney general gets to make decisions and directions based on politics sometimes. Bob, what about what weve heard time and again during impeachment towards, during the Mueller Investigation especially, that the president could not be indicted. Donald trumps own attorney even made the argument in court he could, in fact, shoot somebody on fifth avenue and hed be immune from prosecution as long as hes president of the United States. It seems like a horrid, horrid guideline in the Justice Department and a horrid rule for courts to follow. As you know, of course, joe there are two office of Legal Council opinions written in 1973 and 2000 that concluded a president could be investigated and not indicted while in many office and that had a significant affect in shaping bob muellers conclusions in his reports that he issued in the russia investigation so thats a matter that has to be debated administration by administration in the halls of the academy, with the congress. In the meantime there are steps that can be taken to shore up the president s accountability under the rule of law p. We make a number of recommendations some of which jack mentioned and there are others that bear directly on the president s accountability like the recommendations we make to trim back the excesses in president s exercise of the pardon power. We have a chapter that we talk about ways in which the par don is misunderstand and limits that could be place odd the president to avoid the use of the pardon power for his own or her own political or self interest. Jack, you have the United States i guess weve relied far too long going back to founders on the roman concept of public virtue, tom ricks has an entire book coming out about that in a month or two, where we assume, George Washington said it was important that we assume that men and women of good faith would be empowered. Madison was far more skeptical about human nature, thats why he put in the checks and balances he did in the constitution. But isnt it time for us to sort of baton down the hatches a bit legally and stop depending on the goodwill and the good virtue of anybody that ever sits in the white house again . Your premises is absolutely right. One of the things ive been studying the presidency for three decades and i didnt fully appreciate until trump came along the extent to the point you just made is true, that we depend on the fundamental decency and reasonableness of president s and that we restrained them accordingly. One of the premises of our book is that we can no longer depend on the assumption, were in an era of politics, perhaps demagogue politics and we can expect future president s who are norm breaking and the like, who dont have the virtues you described. Our book is about shoring up the executive branch, trying to set up norms, putting in legal constraints and processes to deal with president s like that. I agree with you and i think its a worry going forward. In a big way. By the way, republicans, this will actually help you as well because democrats are going to be in the white house again. So it seems, again, so many of the precedents that donald trump has set over the past four years need to be overridden one way or the other. The new book is after trump, reconstructing the presidency bob bower and Jack Goldsmith thank you for being on the show. Thank you. Bob wed love to get you back for your other book as well. A prolific author. I want to thank you hal, i want to ask you the same questions. We talked about some of the problems were going to be facing. Whats your recommendation . How do we put all the pieces back together again . What is the first thing, lets say, if joe biden were president , whats the first thing his administration would need to do in addressing Foreign Policy . I think its less an issue of a big bang out of the gate than demonstrating a consistent pattern of a return to the sort of responsible, enlightened leadership that the United States established over a period of about 75 years and seems to have walked away from more recently. So i think what a lot of American Allies and partners will be looking for is the consistent commitment to prehawk consultation on major decisions as opposed to issuing major decisions out of nowhere and leaving allies to scramble and catch up. Theyll be looking for a more authentic multilateral approach to shared challenges whether it is keeping the democracies at the forefront of technological innovation or the relating challenge of dealing with the rising china. Theres increasing consensus among the major democracies about the challenges that what we used to call the free world faces with china at the forefront. The challenge is we havent been able to make maximum use of that consensus because of the tendencies of the Trump Administration. So i this i a Biden Administration would have the opportunity to push the ball forward on a response to say china if it returns to the more constructive pattern of leadership. Hal brands thank you for coming on this morning. Coming up our next guest has a book coming out tomorrow, the same day as bob woodward. He said woodwards book is a must read about why not to vote for donald trump and his own book is about why we should vote for joe biden. That conversation is next on morning joe. Ning joe. When you have depression, it can plunge you into deep, dark lows. And, can leave you feeling extremely sad and disinterested. Overwhelmed by bipolar depression . Ask about vraylar. Not all types of depression should be treated the same. Vraylar effectively helps relieve all symptoms of bipolar depression. With just one pill, once a day. Elderly patients with dementiarelated psychosis have an increased risk of death or stroke. Call your doctor about unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. Antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. Report fever, stiff muscles or confusion, which may mean a lifethreatening reaction, or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be permanent. Side effects may not appear for several weeks. Metabolic changes may occur. Nausea, restlessness and Movement Dysfunction are common side effects. When bipolar depression overwhelms, ask how vraylar can help. Eve going faster than a closerollercoaster love like yours will surely come my way ahey, aheyhey [music playing] love like yours will surely come my way and now your copilot. Still a father. But now a friend. Still an electric car. Just more electrifying. Still a night out. But everything fits in. Still hard work. Just a little easier. Still a legend. Just more legendary. Chevrolet. Making lifes journey, just better. This is xfi this complete from xfinity. Ade. Youll get the xfi gateway with advanced security, so your connected devices are also protected. And stay out plus with unlimited data, you can stream and scroll more than ever. And well ensure that you get the most wifi coverage throughout your home. This is xfi complete. Simple, easy, awesome. Get the security, unlimited daa and wifi coverage you need. Plus, xfi customers can add xfi complete for 11 a month. Click, call or visit a store today. When my daughter was murdered in parkland, joe biden called to share in our familys grief. I learned about his decency and his civility but also learned about his toughness and how hes beaten the nra, together with others, joe biden and Kamala Harris will take on the nra again and win. Lets win back our freedom to live without fear. Florida cast 57 votes for Bernie Sanders and 192 votes for our next president , joe biden. That was Fred Guttenberg nominating joe biden for president during the Democratic National convention. Fred has now written a new book entitled find the helpers, what 9 11 and parkland taught me about recovery, purpose and hope he joins us now once again. Good to see you. Good morning. Fred, thank you for being with us. Let me start by asking how you and your family are getting by . You know, this is something that joe biden talks about so much, losing his children and the daily struggle it is. I wonder if you have any words for parents who are dealing with this now that unfortunately far too many have to go through the hell that you went through. Well, and especially now during the pandemic. Were going to have 200,000 people who are going to die, who were sick alone, who are going to die alone, and we have an occupant in the white house who wants to minimize what that tumtu actually means to families. Joe biden gets it. He got it when it happened to my family. He reached out, i think it was about 10 days after my daughter was killed and then i had the chance to meet him in person as well. This family im sorry, but this country deserves to know what my family has seen of what i hope will be our next president. A guy who has inspired me to go forward. A guy who spoke to me about grief, what getting through grief would look like. How my family and those of us go through grief differently and to be prepared for that. And i thought, you know, okay, big tragic event, hes reaching out to me. But ive come to find out, hes done this for people all across this country his entire career. Reaching out in moments when no one else knows to help them get through it. Back in april i wrote an oped comparing joe biden and the white house on how they would respond to the coronavirus. Sadly weve seen that act out. The current occupant is doing things that will get people sick and get people killed. And joe biden is reaching out hoping to give them hope on how to go forward. I, for one, am thankful for him. I wonder if you heard about the party of the woodward book where donald trump actually became aware of just how horrific the parkland shooting had been. And was shattered, temporarily at least, just completely jarred, and, in fact, snapped harshly at his son when his son seemed, even in Donald Trumps eyes, seemed to try to minimize what had happened there were you surprised by the president s response or more surprised by the inaction that followed . So ive not heard about that part of the book. But no, im not surprised about the inaction that followed. Thats who he is. The day that i buried my daughter. The morning that i buried her, he put out a tweet that was dishonest and he knew it. He blamed her murder on the russia investigation. And he had already met with the fbi. He had already known the truth about why her murder happened. But he put out that tweet. It is who he is, why i refuse to use his name, give his brand oxygen. He is the current occupant of the white house but starting that morning, its where i became really aware of how he handles things. Then what happened about a week later when he sat with republican and democratic members of the house and senate, he even called out republicans on their failure to do anything about gun violence but then he took a call from the nra that night and hes never gone back to that possibility where he and i could have been doing something together or with other fighters for this cause. He chose a different path. And everything he has done since then has been incendiary, has led to more gun violence. At the start of the pandemic he unleashed a gun surge on this country through his administration. Thats who he is. We cannot have more time with him in the white house. Can i ask you about other representativ representatives. Were you reached out to by senators rick scott, who i think was governor then, but has he was. But has rick scott reached out to you . Marco rubio . Governor desantis . Have they reached out to you, been respectful to you, tried to work with you . In the thankful for his leadership. He was an example in that moment of how even as a republican, you can do something about gun violence. We passed gun Safety Measures in florida three weeks later. Sadly, he has moved on from that moment. Sadly, he did not really talk about that moment in his history anymore, and everything hes done since then has led me to believe, and any other time he would never do it again. Then theres rubio. Listen, hes been useless on this issue, lets face it. Yeah, let me ask you finally about jamie. When i talked to joe biden during the campaign, at a low point of the campaign, i think it was, when he wasnt doing well, i asked him why he ran, asked him about bo, whether he thought about bo when he was going out campaigning, and joe biden said that everything he did, he did because of bos memory, that bo pushed him forward and what he said, as he started to tear up was, i just hope hes proud of me. I wonder how much jamie is driving you and how much she still lives through you and your efforts. Listen, joe, my daughter stands on my shoulder every second of every day pushing me forward. Before february 14, 2018, i was just the goofy dad of two kids. Thats who i was, for better or for worse. Now i find myself in this place where because of what happened to my family, i want to do whatever possible do reduce gun violence. The truth is, i live with guilt that my voice wasnt part of this before it was my kid. I always taught my kids, and i talk about this in the book, you always do whats right. Dont ever worry about how hard it is if you think its right. I know doing something to reduce the gun violence death rate in this country is the right thing to do. I dont intend to shut up and i dont intend to stop. I am thankful every day for the amazing helpers along the way who have carried me. Even you and mika, i will never, ever forget that first interview a week after my daughter died, where i think we were scheduled for four or five minutes. And you kept me on for it was about 20, 21 minutes, because you knew i needed to talk. And we were emotional in that interview together. But i knew that day, everything i ever it was my first real experience with media in that way. And you always hear, especially from the current guy in the white house, media stinks, medias the problem. No. You showed me you were decent. You gave me hope that morning. Its been that way ever since. People across this country, whether it be new friends, new neighbors, media, politicians, entertainment, everywhere i go, i have hope, and so if you want to know why i am fighting so hard now for november 3rd, i want to get back to a place where we can have hope in this country and do whats best and bring back decency, civility and safety. Right. You know, we think about you so much. And i think you probably know, because you probably heard from him, but our community, our family that watched this show are a family. Mika and i feel it every time we go out. I cant tell you how many of them ask us about you and about your family. They remember jamie. And theyre grateful that she is standing on your shoulders, pushing you forward every step of the way. Again, whether youre trying to save republican families or democratic families or independent families from going through the pain that youve had to go through, i can tell you, theres so many people in our family watching this show right now that thank you for everything that youre doing. And the new book is find the helpers what 9 11 and parkland taught me about recovery, purpose and hope. Fred guttenberg, thank you so much. We will see you again soon. Thank you. Thank you so much, fred. And, rev, youve had to make these calls so often. The pain and the misery so many families have to suffer through and that dont get reported as much. In this case this was very Dramatic School shooting. You had a militarystyle weapon, but people who illegally own handguns are killing so many children in chicago and los angeles and in other cities across america every single day. Thats why i think Fred Guttenberg represents the best in the country. I see this with so many who become activists and fighting against gun violence, turning their pain into power, empowering this country to really change this whole glorification of guns and glorification of saying that we have found new ways to hurt people rather than to heal and uplift people. And rather than just sit in their own grief, theyve used their grief and the lost one that they loved to drive them towards making this a better country. I admire him and ive seen what victims of police brutality, ive seen it in victims of gun violence, and i think we really ought to understand through them, this is real life. These are somebodys children. Children ought to bury their parents, not the opposite. This is somebodys loved one. This is beyond politics and we need to do something about it. And i think fred shows us how to do it. Change the legislation and the policy for the people, not because of the party. Still ahead, the latest polling in the 2020 race. Where things stand in several key states. Plus, the latest numbers on women voters and whether the president s suburban strategy is working. Morning joe is coming right back. Beautiful. But support the leg when i started cobra kai, the lack of control over my business made me a little intense. But now i practice a different philosophy. Quickbooks helps me get paid, manage cash flow, and run payroll. And now im back on top. With koala kai. Hey more mercy. 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It would have been a run on the banks, it would be a been a run on the hospitals, it would have been a run on the grocery stores. Wow. Did you catch that . The chairwoman of the rnc imagining what would have happened if President Trump had admitted, quote, we dont have a plan. What would have happened, i wonder. And i understand maybe he should have had a plan. I understand because shes been working for donald trump for as long as she has and she doesnt remember actually what its like when you have people like mitt romney. For those that tell the truth to the public and dont think the publics stupid and you can actually trust them to take the information and protect their families. But just imagine what would have happened if he had told the truth, mika, but he cant. He cant. Thats the mazing thing, you look at woodward and you look at this book and he is so twisted and contorted what the truth is. Youve got to admit, he has assembled a pretty huge personality cult where, who are those people . Am i talking about you . I dont know. Maybe. If you hear an audiotape of the president of the United States admitting that he lied to americans when about 200,000 people died, if you think that that is Bob Woodwards fault, that the president s own voice is fake news, you too may be in a personality cult. Call your doctor and check and see. If youre in a country where nothing matters and thats sort of what happens in this presidency where nothing matters, what do you have left . Were going to show, actually, its really something about donald trump and constant confession with donald trump whether he means it or not. Were going to be showing, mika, a superspreader rally thats held inside without masks for most of the people in the audience, just like the president mocking people wearing masking at his last rallies. You dont have to read Bob Woodwards book to know that this president continues to ignore the doctors in his own white house as we reach a death toll over three times see how fast i could do the math there . Over three times, actually as big as the number of americans who died over 20 years in vietnam. It is monday, september 14th. Along with joe and me, we have nbc news capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt, who beginning next monday i want the lightning bolt. Will be the host of way too early with kasie hunt at 5 00 a. M. Were not letting go of kasie d. C. Well figure this out together. But were so excited to have you in the family. 5 00 a. M. Eastern right before morning joe. I can call you at 4 00 and this time i wont be waking you up. Its awesome. Also with us thank you, guys, so much. Im so excited. The host of msnbcs politics nation and president of the National Action network, reverend al sharpton. Historian and author of the new biography of john lewis, his truth is marching on, jon meacham joins us. And national Political Correspondent for nbc news and msnbc, Steve Kornacki is with us. The latest Fox News National poll shows joe biden with a fivepoint lead over donald trump, 51 to 46 . And new battleground state polling is out this morning showing joe biden and President Trump statistically died in several states. First to arizona for the latest hpi poll of likely voters finds biden ahead by ten, 52 to 42 . Meanwhile the latest cbs news news yougov poll has biden leading 47 to 44 , a statistical tie there. In minnesota where early inperson voting begins in just four days, the cbs news yougov poll gives biden a ninepoint lead, 50 m to 41 . And the latest New York Times Sienna College poll joe biden ahead by nine points. In wisconsin biden holds a fivepoint lead, 48 to 43 . In nevada biden leads by four points, 46 to 42 , a statistical tie. In New Hampshire biden leads by three, 45 to 42 , another statistical tie. Steve kornacki. A lot of close races. Everyone said it would closen up as we got to the end. It is tightening up. First of all, minnesotas still, even though it was, of course, has been the epicenter of so many of these protests, minnesota is still comfortably in the biden camp in two polls. That has been for four years now a dream of Donald Trumps campaign, or 3 1 2 years, at least, of picking up minnesota. Right now it certainly doesnt look like thats going to happen. Wisconsin also these polls of five points, a series of polls a couple of days before, had biden up by eight points. Its very interesting, across the upper midwest you have joe biden doing, i think, better than his campaign would have expected. Lets now go to the sun belt where he is doing, i wont say worse than expected, but where hes underperforming based on where he is in these other september polls. Thats in florida and in arizona. In one arizona poll its tight, as dan rather would say, as a tick, at about three points. Then we have another one that has biden up by ten points. But the underlying issue here, of course, the latino vote. Biden is underperforming among latin latinos, underperforming what Hillary Clinton did four years ago. Thats a concern that Michael Bloomberg and other latino leaders are starting to address. Yeah, its interesting i think if you look at all of the polling out there, and that includes florida, our nbc marist poll last week has the race tied overall. If you look inside the numbers in florida and if you look at all these polls youre talking about from the midwest, the consistent thing weve been seeing for a long time right now is that wherever you are, theres significant erosion for donald trump relative to 2016 in support of his white voters. Wisconsin you have this poll from the New York Times and sienna where its a fivepoint lead for biden overall. You look inside the numbers and you see right away trump is winning with noncollege white voters in wisconsin but not by the same margin he won by in 2016 adds you mentioned, when you look into florida, to a lesser degree but some degree in florida, the Trump Campaign has been able to find a bit of an offset to that erosion. In florida they found a big offset to that erosion. Thats the support among cuban american voters. Statewide in florida and a big part of that is the cuban american vote where trump leads by four points statewide among hispanic voters. In a state like florida, hispanic population, such an umbrella term, the hispanic vote is not as driven as cuban americans, you dont see trump making the strides to the degree he did in florida. You take a look at arizona, you have ten, four, and our poll a couple weeks ago that put biden ahead by five. In arizona, thats a state trump won by 3 1 2 points in 2016. If you take the low number youre seeing in the polling right now, a biden lead of four, a trump margin of 3 1 2 in 2016, that four is closer than your seeing in wisconsin, closer than youre seeing in a lot of other states. But thats a bigger journey. Its still a significant journey for democrats from where they finished in 2016. It was not like arizona or pennsylvania, it was not a fraction of the point. It was a solid 3 1 2point margin. For that to move to four points, it speaks to the broader National Trend of donald trump winning among white voters but not nearly to the degree he did in 2016. Steve, what is so much of what i do is based, when i look at these numbers and we get near elections, its just based on my experience and sort of my gut instinct on how things break. You actual ly study this and actually know the numbers and know the percentages like the back of your hand. Im curious, when we start i usually tell people, when you start seeing candidates over 50 let me start the other way. When you see incumbents under 50 , traditionally that has been a very bad sign, es and s espec Approval Rating. That has happened. That hasnt been a truism so much over the past five, six, seven years. But were seeing joe biden get a lot of 50 percents, 51 , 52 . Even in wisconsin where its 51 to 46 . Im just wondering, how significant is it when were starting to see instead of what we see sometimes four years ago with hillary at 43 and trump at 41 , or trump at 44 and hillary at 43 . Were now seeing 50 to 44 . Whats the importance of either of these candidates having a five as the first number in these polling results . I think its likely more significant this time in 2016 because unlike 2016, you dont have thirdparty candidates registering as 4 , 5 , 6 in the polling right now you dont have a trajectory like 2016 where gary could get 2 , jill stein, where they could gobble up enough where hillary could only get to 40 nationally and then talk about the Electoral College breaking the way it did. Youre looking at a situation where all the polling is suggesting that a vast, vast majority of the vote is going to be a twoparty vote. Its going to be either biden or trump. So, in that case if biden hits a situation like Hillary Clinton hit in 2016, where he doesnt grow much between now and election day. Hillary clinton in october of 2016, started november 2016, she wasnt growing her support, she just kind of stayed at 48 and ended up, again, creating that kind of situation where trump could win the Electoral College. If bidens over 50 and you dont have a significant, you know, thirdparty vote, then 50 plus 1 , thats a traditional election, would win that. So, i do think theres some room when i look inside these numbers, theres some room for growth for trump that may not be popping up right now. I only say that because theres a disconnect, and this has been steady for a while now in these polls i would say two or three points between where he runs in the headtohead with biden and where his Approval Rating is. I think hes running at 43 against biden in wisconsin. His Approval Rating in the poll in wisconsin is 45 . I think theres room there for that 43 very conceivably to jump to 45 to match the Approval Rating. As youre saying with the absence of thirdparty candidates gobbling up a significant amount of the vote, if biden can get to 50. 1 in wisconsin, even with that jump for trump, that would leave him behind. Two candidates from the democratic primaries are back in the headlines as Bernie Sanders and Michael Bloomberg weigh in on the state of the race. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Atching mo well be right back. A live bookkeeper is helping customize quickbooks for me. Okay, youre all set up. Thanks that was my business gi, this ones casual. Get set up right with a live bookkeeper with intuit quickbooks. And now your copilot. Still a father. But now a friend. Still an electric car. Just more electrifying. Still a night out. But everything fits in. Still hard work. Just a little easier. Still a legend. Just more legendary. Chevrolet. Making lifes journey, just better. Chevrolet. I will send out an army to find you in the middle of the darkest night its true, i will rescue you oh, i will rescue you this is xfi this complete from xfinity. Ade. Youll get the xfi gateway with advanced security, so your connected devices are also protected. And stay out plus with unlimited data, you can stream and scroll more than ever. And well ensure that you get the most wifi coverage throughout your home. This is xfi complete. Simple, easy, awesome. Get the security, unlimited daa and wifi coverage you need. Plus, xfi customers can add xfi complete for 11 a month. Click, call or visit a store today. Joe mentioned Michael Bloomberg with the race in florida tightening. Bloomberg says he will spend 100 million to help joe biden win the state with a heavy focus on latino outreach. The former president ial candidate pledged during the primary to use his fortune to help the eventual democratic nominee defeat trump. Meanwhile, three sources tell the Washington Post that senator Bernie Sanders has warned associates that biden is at serious risk of losing the election, quote, if he continues his vaguer, more centrist approach. According to the post, sanders wants biden to talk more about health care and his economic plans, and he thinks biden should campaign more with people who are popular among young liberals like congresswoman alex andree ocasiocortez. Senator sanders was asked about the report yesterday morning. What i said privately is what i have said publicly, and that is, i think bidens in an excellent position to win this election, but i think we have got to do more as a campaign than just go after trump. Trump is a disaster. I think most people know it, but we also have to give people a reason to vote for joe biden. And joe has some pretty strong positions on the economy. And i think we should be talking about that more than we have. Well, yeah, there are a lot of things you have to consider, including not chasing off, as we were just saying, hispanic voters, especially in the state of florida. And well, well just leave it there. So, jon meacham, Everett Dirkson said, at least i think he said, if not, correct me, a billion here, a billion there, and after while youre talking about real money. Thats what Michael Bloomberg has, real money. Lots of billions here, lots of billions there. Now hes talking about putting 100 million mika yesterday was saying, oh, bloomberg is putting 100 million into the race. I said, well, thats cute. And she said, in florida. I said, wait a second. Thats a i was like, okay. Thats a horse of a different color. Thats actually pretty significant. Again, going back to this hispanic outreach, im just curious your thoughts of bloomberg who, of course, i still personally think changed the race in his own way when he got in earlier. Moving it more to the center. But im curious what your thoughts are on bloombergs very significant entrance into this race. Yeah, i havent talked to the mayor or his folks about this, but there is a great possible rich, historical irony at hand, which is whatever you think about Mike Bloomberg, he is a datadriven guy, right . Not particularly ideological. If you present him with a case that is backed up by numbers, that not smoking does this or not drinking 64 ounces of fructose syrup might make you slightly healthier, he will take steps to make Public Policy in line with fact. Could there be any more opposite an example of a political sensibility in the age of trump than someone who is datadriven . So, in the state of florida, were going to have these two polls of american life. Someone based entirely on fact and someone who has no even a nodding acquaintance with fact in the incumbent president facing off in that complicated and historically fraught state. So, theres a wonderful test case for the enlightenment itself down in florida. Coming up, two california sheriffs deputies are ambushed while sitting in their patrol car. An update on that senseless violence next on morning joe. Metastatic Breast Cancer is relentless,. But im relentless too. Because every day matters. And having more of them is possible with verzenio, the only one of its kind proven to help you live significantly longer when taken with fulvestrant, regardless of menopausal status. And its the only one of its kind you can take every day. Verzenio fulvestrant is approved for women with hr , her2 metastatic Breast Cancer whose disease has progressed after hormonal treatment. Diarrhea is common, may be severe, or cause dehydration or infection. At first sign of diarrhea, call your doctor, start an antidiarrheal, and drink fluids. Before taking verzenio, tell your doctor if you have fever, chills, or other signs of infection. Verzenio may cause low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infection that can lead to death. 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Feel the joy of movement with voltaren. Nothing more could have been done. Nothing more could have been done. Does he remember what he told me back in february about its more deadly than the flu . I mean, it almost took my breath away that there was such certainty when he was absolutely wrong about the issue that defines the position of this country right now. Rev, the supports still there, 45 of americans because theyre so driven by this fear of the other side. That joe biden is some wildeyed, crazy, leftwing democrat. 40odd percent is still there, so the mistake democrats need to avoid is rather than just continue to try and convince them what they dont even believe when they see with their own eyes or hear with their own ears, you must really energize and bring out the over 50 of americans that are either believing in what youre saying or are open to believing it because theyre somewhere in the middle. That is why i think it is significant that when you have a Michael Bloomberg, not only putting in 100 million in florida, but putting in data that will project where money and other resources will be able to target latino voters that appear to be going the other way, a large black voting base and others, i think one of the mistakes that the democrats made in the 72 race with mcgovern you mentioned or the 04 race with kerry, is trying to convince people to come their way. That is wise but not as wise as also putting a lot of energy into trying to bring out the voters you already have with you in terms of policy but have not been energized to come out. You just had a ruling in florida that in many ways impacted those exfelons being able to vote that the state voted for. So, i think we really need to focus on using the data for the turnout and independent voters. And we dont need extremers on either side trying to distract that from us. Those talking about policing should be out there denouncing the shooting of these two Law Enforcement people in california just like we denounced shooting by police. We cannot in any way be morally inconsistent and not strategic in how we fight this fight. Reverend al, thank you so much for bringing up the issue of these two Young Police Officers with children at home, who got ambushed and shot and for condemning that. I wanted to just bring that up. And i know that you are going to have harsh words for the protesters that blocked the entrance of the hospital and were shouting they hoped that these police officers, these Young Police Officers with children at home. They were chanting they hoped, these protesters were hoped that they died. How sick, how absolutely sick some people are out there. What should the message be from those 25 million Peaceful Protesters, the black lives matter protests, to those people shouting those sick, vile comments about men and women who dedicate their lives to protecting and serving, not just the people of los angeles but all of america . I think the protesters that have been for months out there now, i among them should be saying, we are not antipolice and we are certainly not for killing or shooting police. We are there saying police should not be wrongfully shooting civilians, particularly in the black community. And for people to try to associate us with murder and ambushing and death is doing more to hurt the cause than anything else. Some, i suspect, in my own way of thinking, could be planted in order to hurt us because that is so extreme from our position. Let me be real clear. I pray for the lives of those two officers just like i pray for jacob blake, who was shot in the back seven times in kenosha, wisconsin, and i pray for the family of george floyd and i pray for all of them in the same prayer. I dont have separate prayers for Police Victims and for police that are victimized. The same prayer that we stop this senseless violence and this senseless lawlessness. This is where we ought to be. This is the dr. King tradition, this is what meachum wrote about john lewis, and anyone on the other side, right or left, are wrong. Thats what they are. Coming up, how to lead. A new book leans on the wisdom of the worlds greatest ceos, founders and gamechangers. So, whats the secret to their success . Well talk about it just ahead on morning joe. Everyday its agetting closer going faster than a rollercoaster love like yours will surely come my way ahey, aheyhey [music playing] love like yours will surely come my way try new natures bounty stress comfort. Three unique gummies for your unique needs. Find peace. Boost mood. Sleep well. Stress comfort comes naturally, only from natures bounty whether its in North Carolina, whether its in michigan, whether its in other states where theyre sending out theyre going to be sending out theyre going to be sending out 80 million ballots. And its democrats. Theyre trying to rig this election. Were going to start by saying that the democrats are trying to rig this election because its the only way theyre going to win. The only way theyre going to win is to rig it. 52 days from now, were going to win nevada. And were going to win four more years in the white house. And then after that well negotiate, right, because were probably, based on the way we were treated, were probably entitled to another four after that. President trump had another largely maskless rally in minden, nevada, telling supporters without any evidence that democrats are trying to rig the upcoming election. And, again, perhaps tongue in cheek, reviving the idea of him serving more than two terms in office. Some critical new polls are shedding light on the impact of the female vote in the upcoming president ial election. Joining us now is lauren leader, ceo and cofounder of all in together, a nonpartisan, Nonprofit Organization centered on the Civic Education of women. Her organization has teamed up with Lake Research and Emerson College polling to conduct the most comprehensive survey of women voters to date, which definitively shows that while President Trump has tried to appeal to women voters, particularly suburban women with his law and order messaging, his efforts appear to be not working. Is that correct, lauren, and why . Right, mika. So, we conducted really the most comprehensive poll of women voters across america. We also oversampled battleground states. What we found, trump has an enormous gender gap but with suburban women its dramatic. When it comes to the law and order question, suburban women are favoring biden by 52 . The same thing is true when it comes to the coronavirus response. The same thing is true when it comes to how trump has handle the reopening the schools and to race relations. And so what we see is that across the board, despite the efforts the president has tried to make, to use scare tactics to attract suburban women, its not working. Weve been able to prove that definitively, with every group of women voters except for one, which i want to talk about. Trump is hyped by significant digits and thats going to potentially spell real problems for him in november. And whats the group where he is doing well . Well, once again, mika, what we see as we saw in 2016, noncollege educated white women are still with trump. They are with him on every single one of the measures that we looked at. Were with him in significant numbers. Whats concerning about that is the impact noncollege educated white women could have in the battleground states where they are overrepresented. When you look at the demographics and who has been registered to vote in the last few years, we have seen significant increase in the number of noncollege educated white voters rz registering to vote in the states. As we saw in 2016, when the margins are small, if the turnout is low, that small group, that 52 of noncollege educated white women that voted for trump in 2016 and caused so much consternation among certainly Democratic Women who just could not understand how so many women, white, noncollege educated women voted for him, were seeing the same trend now. Thats definitely alarming. Its alarming for democrats. I think the issue is going to be that we as weve seen over and over again, weve seen poll after poll after poll that shows huge advantages for biden, but in the Electoral College system you can have a small group, like noneducated white women have a sizeable impact on the election in november. Kasie shouldnt with us and she has the next question. Kasie . Lauren, good morning. We talked about that law and order message as we introduced you and how the Trump Campaign is trying to use that to speak to these suburban women. But im wondering, what impact is the coronavirus and the president s handlinging of coronavirus having in terms of how women voters are moving . We know they move decisively against republicans in the 2018 midterms before the pandemic broke out. How is that affecting things now . Right. And i think were definitely seeing that. Women are extremely concerned about the president s response to corona. One of the places you see this in a really interesting way is 25 of republican women are saying theyre going to vote for trump. And youre also seeing huge numbers of independent women, which is also reflected in the suburbs. We have high numbers of independent women in the suburbs across america who are saying they are supporting biden and who have moved pretty decisively and definitively against him. The overarching issue weve seen over and over again for women has been safety and security. And these days that means a lot of things. Thats more than about law and order. Its about the health and safety of their children. Its about the health and safety of their family in a covid environment. By the way, in the 2018 midterms, part of what we saw was such a motivator for women to come out to the polls was safety against gun violence in schools. What were seeing is this we talked about this the last time i was on, mika. Women view their vote as essential to protecting the future of the country, to protecting their families. They take that Civic Responsibility very seriously and they turn out. Anyone that underestimates the impact of women voters on this election really isnt looking at the reality. Women have turned every election in this country since 19d 80, theyre going to do it again this time. The question is which women are in the Electoral College system are going to have the upper hand . Lauren leader, thank you very much. Very good points. And lets bring in now the reverend william barber, president of repairs of the breach and cochair of the Poor Peoples Campaign. At 7 00 p. M. Eastern tonight the Poor Peoples Campaign is hosting an event entitled, voting is power unleashed, to share tools on voter empowerment, engagement, registration and protection. Reverend, thank you so much for being on. So, tell us how this is going to work. What are you hoping people will learn from the event . Thank you so much. More than 3 Million People showed up on june 20, 2020 about issues but beyond issues we have to have engagement. So people from every race, creed and color, i like to say from appalachian to alabama, coming on, well talk about the power of the vote, the power to protect the vote and the power to change policy by the vote. 63 million poor and lowwealth people did not vote were eligible to vote. 29 million voted, 34 million didnt vote. From maryland to new mexico, there are 193 Electoral College votes in the race to 270. In 15 states, if poor and lowwealth people would just vote 1 to 19 higher than the last time, checked change every race from the governors to the senate to the presidency. This is the group that must be expanded. This is that sleeping giant. Its the one dr. King talked about and many others have talked about. Its not just black. Its people of every race, creed and color. People will come on, they will learn about this power first, and then we have forward justice let by attorney Caitlyn Swain and at the naacp defense fund who are actually going to say, this is how you protect the vote. This is how you move. By the way, mika, one other thing. The data shows us, this is not emotion, the data we did a commissioner study that poor wealth voters did not vote, one, lack for transportation and time and, number three, too often they dont hear politicians talk specifically to them. They hear about the middle class and the wealthy but not about poor and low wealth people and what theyre concerned about. Living wages, health care, protection in the midst of this pandemic. If they are spoken to and they move, they can fundamentally shift this election. We believe this and thats why were organizing. So, explain their power and then show them how to use it. Any concerns about the way voting has been used as sort of a political weapon during this campaign and even an effort to confuse people as to how, when, where to vote . A lot of it. Thats why were having this. Thats why were not just training a few people to go in and train. Were training thousands and thousands of people so they can teach in their homes and their communities. Were hearing about the president saying he wants to sends in people to intimidate. Well, people need to know how to protect themselves from that. Were hearing people want to do poll watching in the wrong way. There are laws against that. People need to know what their power is. We need to know in every state, how do you vote early. In North Carolina we have numerous days of early voting and sameday registration, so voting is not just election day. It is a season of election. Poor and lowwealth people need to know every way they can vote and then utilize every way possible to vote. Again, i want your listeners to understand, in 15 states, for instance, in michigan, its only 1 of poor and lowwealth people voting more than they did the last time to change it. In North Carolina its only 19 . There are 15 states under 20 , just under 20 , of poor and lowwealth people voting who didnt vote last time shift everything. When it comes to that Electoral College, i heard your former guest, you see the southern strategy, the extremists and republican extremists, have used that for 50 years, locking up the south. They call it the solid south is no longer solid if its organized and people are mobilized. Many people in the solid south, just a small uptick changes the outcome in those elections and in those states. Reverend, dr. William barber, thank you. We wish you the best of luck with tonights event. Well all be watching. Thank you. Up next, what do House Speaker nancy pelosi, yoyo ma and Jack Nicklaus all have in common . 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Joining us now, cofounder of the carlyle group, david reubenstein, author of how to lead wisdom from the worlds greatest ceos, founders and gamechangers. David, thank you so much for being with us. Talk about the past five years, and you quietly talking behind the scenes to these game changers. Why did you start the project . And what did you get from the project . I think leadership is important. We cant really have an organized world if we dont have leaders, and i think leaders have certain qualities. I wanted to bring out these qualities in this book. Over the last five years i interviewed people who are political leaders, business leaders, cultural leaders, sports leaders and trying to figure out what they have in common. They have many things in common. They tend to come from lower income backgrounds, not from very wealthy families. They tend to have failed early on in life. They tend to have a certain amount of humility because of their failure. They tend to have tremendous amount of persistence and resilience and in the end learn to communicate with people that are following them. In the end, i think they have a dream and a vision of where they want to go. So not everybody is exactly the same. Some people have different leadership styles but my view is that the leadership styles in this book are the ones people should emulate and what i wanted to do was to say to young people, look at the leadership styles of these young people. Try to follow them because in the end we need more leaders in this country and you should follow these people who have done extraordinary things with their lives. Is there one example perhaps the most compelling rags to riches story . Because it is really something. You look at the list of the men and women that you interviewed. Some of them did come from either a disadvantaged background or from lower or middle class working background. What story among all of those stick out to you . Oprah winfrey smeep was essentially abandoned by her biological parents and had to be raised by her grandparents and herself to some extent. She was fired early on in her career in baltimore and stayed on for a little bit later but ultimately went on to chicago and changed the Television World and became as famous as shes now become. I did ask her whether she wanted to run for president saying its clear you dont need experience to be elected president and she thought about it, but i think in the end she concluded that being oprah was better than being president. Probably. Probably right. Talk about Warren Buffett if you will. Heres a guy who, again, through the years, hes remained, and i think a ranch home he built in 1963 and yet changed the world of finance forever. Yes, he had the adacity to move back to omaha from new york and think he could run the investment world from there but he proved if youre really smart, focused and know what youre doing, you can do quite well living anywhere. Hes now 90 years old. Just celebrated his 90th birthday. Still going strong but has enormous amount of humility. When you talk to him, he doesnt brag about it. Look, im the smartest man in the investment world. Look how much money ive made. He has a certain humility to him. I think humility and selfdeprecating humor goes a long way in leaders. Talk about colin powell. Colin powell overcame discrimination. He was in the military and couldnt get served in the south when he went off the base. He was wounded twice in vietnam. Yet he rose up to become the leading military figure in our country, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff and oversaw the successful victory in kicking iraq out of kuwait, but obviously was tarnished a bit by going before the u. N. And talking about weapons of mass destruction several years later when secretary of state. Hes recognized thats something people will always talk about with respect to what hes done. But on the whole, his american story is an american story of somebody coming from very modest means, not spectacular education and ultimately turned out to be one of the people that most people in this country admire. Another person you can talk about, obviously, having a mark on their Public Record that might overshadow all the good that they did, david petraeus. Heres a general who and we have a blind spot. And i think we need to recognize this. We have a blind spot in American History because the first three years of the iraq war went so horribly. Sometimes its next to impossible to remember what a miraculous, and i use the word rarely, but a miraculous turn around that petraeus and bushs team put together in iraq in 2007, 2008 and into 2009. So much so that dexter philkins when he went back in 2009 said, i dont recognize the country. Yes, its amazing. We were in very bad shape. He came in with about 40,000 additional soldiers that many people thought would not work in socalled surge and he turned around the iraq situation. He tried to do the same in afghanistan. With not quite the same success but still had some progress. But david is a driven, drinven man, and while everyone has some flaws and scars in their background, i think hell be remembered for a long time what he did in iraq and as a military leader. If you go back and look at our founding fathers, everybody had flaws. Nobody youll analyze is perfect. When you get close to these people and analyze what theyre all about, they have a lot of strengths but they have some flaws and that makes them human and thats a good thing. On your list of transformers, a lot of incredible names. One that stands out is someone i just like so much. Indra nui. Explain the leadership style she brought to the table, brings to the table that made her such a success. Yes, she came from india and came over to the United States to get her degree at yale business school. She was running a major company, pepsico as a woman and an immigrant. There were no other fortune 500 companies being run by women who were immigrants. She did it for about 12 years. Did a spectacular job. One of her tricks was this. She used to write letters to the parents of employees that were senior employees of hers saying, let me give you a report card on how your son or daughter is doing. Its a great way to bond when your mother or father gets a letter saying how great you are from your boss. It tended to bond the employees to her and obviously please a lot of mothers and fathers. Really good. How to lead wisdom from the latest ceos, founders and game changers. I hope youll come back. David reubenstein. My pleasure. Kasie, lets go to you for last thoughts. What are you going to be looking at on the hill this week . Well, to pick up on this conversation, some leadership. I think this is really going to be a critical week for figuring out whether congress is actually capable of doing anything on Coronavirus Relief funding, sending more money to hurting americans and businesses. It really doesnt look good right now. But if theyre going to do it its really got to start this week because then theyre doing government funding and then theyre hitting the campaign trail. So now is the time, i would say, to call your member of congress if you want them to do something about this. And its so important, everybody im talking to, i want to get into this later tomorrow. Everybody im talking to in the business community, whether its business lawyers, whether its people running their own companies, they are talking about how many fear a depression next year, regardless of who wins, that whats happening just doesnt add up. You theres going to be a domino effect. And we really do need congress and the president to get involved and get engaged and Work Together as we move forward. By the way, speaking of working together, im so excited about kasie starting next week and so excited to be a part of her family, part of her team. Way too early back in action with kasie hunt. That does it for us this morning. Im so thrilled. Stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage. Were thrilled, too, kasie. Hi there. Im Stephanie Ruhle live at msnbc headquarters here in new york city. It is monday, september 14th. Lets get smarter. We are just 50 days out from the election and this morning, the focus of both president ial campaigns is shifting out west. That is where historic wildfires are burning bigger and faster than ever before. At least 35 people have now been