Good evening, im ali velshi sitting in for lawrence odonnell. We have a very good last word for you. Trumps tangled web. From russia collusion, to the president s tortured relationship with the truth. Well look at it all over the course of this hour. The day began as a growing web of deceit between president and shifting stories between the president and Rudy Giuliani to clean up Rudy Giulianis nowinfamous fox news appearances. Youll remember he revealed that the president reimbursed Michael Cohen for the 130,000 Hush Money Payment. There are new details that just broke within the last half an hour about when the president learned of that payment to Stormy Daniels. According to the New York TimesPresident Trump knew about a sixfigure payment that michael d. Cohen, his personal lawyer, made to a Pornographic Film Actress several months before he denied any knowledge of it to reporters aboard Air Force One in april, according to two people familiar with the
arrangement. The times reports it is not immediately clear exactly when the president learned of the payment that Michael Cohen made in october of 2016. But, quote, three people close to the matter said mr. Trump knew mr. Cohen had succeeded in keeping the allegations from coming public at the time the president denied it. Also breaking, new developments from the Wall Street Journal about Michael Cohens growing access to cash during the president ial campaign. The journal reports, Michael Cohen gained access to as much as 774,000 through two Financial Transactions during the campaign as he sought to fix problems for his boss, public records show. Those transactions could factor into a broad investigation of mr. Cohens Business Affairs being conducted by manhattan federal prosecutors and the federal bureau of investigation. According to the Wall Street Journal, in february of 2016,
cohen nearly doubled the amount he could use on a bank credit lined tied to his manhattan apartment. Increasing his ability to borrow by 245,000, three months earlier he gained access to another 529,000 through a new mortgage that he and his wife cosigned on a condominium owned by her parents at trump world tower. It isnt clear whether Michael Cohen used these sources of cash to settle problems for trump. But sources tell the Wall Street Journal federal prosecutors and the fbi are examining whether Michael Cohen committed bank fraud by making false statements, inflating the value of his assets to obtain loans or misstating the purpose of his loan. Michael cohen said he used his home equity line of credit to make the 130,000 Hush Money Payment to Stormy Daniels. In an interview with the
Washington Post this week, Rudy Giuliani said the president had reimbursed Michael Cohen for the Stormy Daniels payment and indicated that trump had reimbursed cohen for other matters as well. Quote, he was paid by Donald Trumps personal funds and he was paid out of personal funds which covered that and possibly a few other things, you know, would be considered incidental. The repayments took place over a period of time, probably in 2017, probably all paid back by the end of 2017, that and probably a few other situations that might have been considered campaign expenses. Giuliani also said this week that cohen resolved other problems similarly for trump. He didnt specify what they were or the source of funds that were used. Joining us is one of the Wall Street Journal reporters who broke tonights story, Michael Rothfeld, thank you for being it us. Thank you for your reporting on this. Whats the implication here. Michael cohen ended up taking 774,000 combined in home equity
loans in the month before the election . Thats right, ali. So the question is, what prosecutors are looking at is whether any laws are broken in terms of how Michael Cohen may have gotten access to cash during this period to use to help solve problems for President Trump to keep things quiet, such as the Stormy Daniels payment. Or were any misrepresentations made, as you said, in his in his applications to banks or statements to banks or in terms of what kind of Campaign Finance laws may have been violated. What we found was that well, first of all in november 2015, Michael Cohens inlaws refinanced an apartment and took 529,000 out of the equity from the apartment. And he cosigned the loan for that. Slush fund that might have been used to fix problems . Yes, rudy said Stormy Daniels wasnt the only thing he solved for President Trump, there were a few other things he got repaid for after the election through a retainer, 35,000 a month. So the information is conflicting and people are changing their stories but by and by, as the federal investigation is going on, we are learning more about what happened, and i think within some short period of time we probably will find out even a lot more about what actually happened. Thanks for your reporting, Michael Rothfeld from the Wall Street Journal. The Breaking News keeps coming. The Washington Post just posted a new story, giuliani tries to clarify repayment to Stormy Daniels. In it the times reports that after Rudy Giulianis media tour this week, some trump advisers said they fear that giuliani may have waived his right to assert that his conversations with the
president are private, and that government or private lawyers pursuing lawsuits could now seek to interview him. Joining us are Jonathan Alter political analyst and columnist for the daily beast. Keira raumman, boston globe, the point for federal studies. And jennifer rodgers, Executive Director of the center for advancement of Public Integrity for columbia high school. Thanks to all of you. A lot to digest. Jennifer, let me start with you. Going back to Michael Cohen may be establishing a slush fund or bringing in money he may have used to pay things off for donald trump, in the state of new york thats not actually legal. Lawyers cant go around settling things for clients with their own personal money. Its not a crime but its an ethical violation. If youre a lawyer in new york state, youll get in trouble with the bar for doing that sort of thing, its clearly prohibited. Thats a problem for Michael Cohen to the extent his law practice goes. You and i were talking about this beforehand. A lot of this stuff starts to weave itself into a narrative that a lot of people already believe. There are a lot of people dont believe donald trump could not have known. This guys a skinflint of legendary note. He didnt pay people small amounts of money, theres no real way hundreds of thousands of dollars could be paid on his behalf without him knowing. Youre right. And we have this week confirmation of things that many people already believe to be true. Looking back a week ago. We have the forbes 400 saying donald trump inflated his wealth wildly, pretended to be worth 500 million when he was only worth about 5 million. We have his doctor saying, i never wrote that letter saying he would be the most healthy person to serve as president , trump dictated me. We knew that by the tone of what it said. And now we have giuliani saying the president knew and he paid that back which is contrary to what the president said before, just last month, and then he
confirmed it on twitter yesterday, appeared to walk it back today. But you have a situation where your credibility is lost if youre constantly changing your story. What is this about, jonathan, its chaos, but the whole thing is perplexing. Giuliani was brought in, in theory not just as a political adviser, but to be the president s lawyer, to try and bring some resolution to this issue of whether the president is going to sit down with Robert Mueller or be subpoenaed to talk to Robert Mueller. This doesnt look like the way you solve a problem. To say that Rudy Giuliani is rusty would be underestimating the situation. He hasnt been a prosecutor in more than 30 years. Hes been in politics and he has really no experience with this kind of White Collar Defense at this level and showed it in the first couple of days and ticked off his client as you can tell from the president s comments. Whats concerning to me is when people say, oh, im not
surprised, i knew that about trump, i knew he wrote that letter for the doctor, i knew he grossly inflated his wealth, i knew he was a liar about Stormy Daniels it has the net effect of normalizing trump, which has been the great challenge is to not just take it for granted that the president of the United States is a confirmed liar. That shouldnt be a dog bites man story. Right. We should continue to have a sense of outrage about this, but sustaining that outrage over a fouryear period is going to be very hard. I want to remind everybody that after Everything Indira laid out about what donald trump said and Rudy Giuliani said, trump this morning said to reporters that giuliani needs to get his facts straight. Lets listen to this in the president s words. Ill tell you what, rudy is a great guy but he just started a day ago. But he really has his heart into it, hes working hard, hes learning the subject matter. And hes going to be issuing a statement, too, but he is a great guy. He started yesterday. Hell get his facts straight. Hes a great guy. I will tell you this, i will tell you this, when rudy made the statement, rudys great, but rudy had just started and he wasnt totally familiar with everything. And as the president said, Rudy Giuliani did release a statement this afternoon. Heres part of it. The part about the campaign and the funds. He said, first, there is no Campaign Violation the payment was made to resolve a personal and false allegation in order to protect the president s family. It would not have been done in any event goof been done in any event, whether he was a candidate or not. Second, my references to timing were not describing my understanding of the president s knowledge, but instead, my understanding of these matters. Rudy giuliani in the same
interview in which he said this wasnt a Campaign Violation said, can you imagine if this had come out right before the election . The implication again to what everybody else in the country thinks Rudy Giuliani said that was the case. Now hes walking that back. If youre a prosecutor in this thing, this is too easy. Its interesting. So if the prosecutors are looking into this, if they want to make this Campaign Violation count, they will look at these things, they will have them in the arsenal for inconsistent statements and so on and they know what the defense is going to be. What theyre going to do is make the case with the facts, not all these statements. Look at exactly what happened, how the money was obtain the, who paid whom when, who knew what based on communications among the witnesses. They dont build this case with nonsense of the back and forth going around and they have these to have a little fun with. With the inconsistencies. Michael avenatti, this is a civil case, but hes having some fun with it. Oh, for sure. Hes enjoying the fact that everybody who needles either Rudy Giuliani or the president gets something out of it. I talked to Michael Avenatti today about this, and the thing that you have behind you, trumps tangled web is, of course, a reference to him quoting Sir Walter Scott on twitter saying what a tangled web we weave. He is saying this is about deception. He said he and his client, Stormy Daniels are leaning back and enjoying this. They describe giuliani as dazed and confused, and the deeper they go into it, the better it makes ms. Daniels case or ms. Stephanie clifford, her real name. Its not just the potential Campaign Finance violations, potential ethics violations. Its also potential false statements and potential obstruction of justice. Lets not forget one of the most important things Rudy Giuliani said in that sean hannity interview, he said the president fired james comey because he refused to say that trump was not the target of the
investigation. Right. That goes right back to obstruction of justice. The latter part of that line oh what a tangled web we weave is, when we practice to deceive. These guys arent practicing much. It seems more like the keystone kops, except its the keystone kriminals. They didnt get the memo on how to lie. So this is what weve seen unfold this week. They also had some very good news this week. Theres a judge in the Paul Manafort case, judge ellis, who essentially Rebuked Mueller and his team and said they were out to hurt the president. We dont know whether thats an indication which way hell of which way hell move, whether he might throw the case out or do Something Else that would be unfavorable to the government. This is a story thats not going to be all bad news for the president. He had good polls too. Ill talk about that a bit. He was very quick to quote judge ellis when he got to the nra. This all happened early this morning. I wanted to go back to you jennifer, on the legality of it. It doesnt seem like theyve all practiced it. Giuliani overnight to nbc news described his conversation with donald trump about the cohen reimbursements, i dont know why hes talking about this stuff to the news media, in an interview with nbc news giuliani insisted he only shared the details to daniels of the payment to daniels with trump about a week ago. I dont think the president realized he paid him back for that specific thing until we his legal team made him aware of the paperwork. He said the president responded oh, my goodness thats what it was for. Oh my goodness doesnt sound like the president to me. Maybe rudy is paraphrasing. Why are we hearing these conversations . Nowadays lawyers play multiple roles. Theyre often pr people, spokespeople, the rest of it. Just because youre sharing a conversation with your client doesnt mean youre waiving privilege for all reasons. It may be something they decided the lawyer is going to be the spokesperson, there are good reasons for not having the client speak all the time. It doesnt mean that privilege is waived but why they decided as a strategic matter that these are things that should shared is beyond me. To jonathans point it doesnt seem to be in order. The narrative is not clear. It seems to change so much. Its very incoherent. Its not the Communications Strategy you would want. Part of me wonders whether thats the goal. Thanks s ts to you guys, stick around. I want to bring in Washington Post editor ruth marcus and our msnbc contributors. Thank you, ruth. Ruth, what do you make of these developments. The idea that Rudy Giuliani has put on the table for scrutiny exactly how this all went down between the president , Michael Cohen, and Stormy Daniels. I dont know that he helped the president s cause much. Thats a very restrained way of describing the premiere of the giuliani story. I mean, when the president is out there cleaning up after his lawyer, that kind of has things a little bit backwards. I think theres two different questions here. One is the Public Relations aspect to the question and one is the legal aspect. As a Public Relations matter, these constantly shifting stories and unraveling tales and the New York Times story that says the president had known for months about the payment to Stormy Daniels, duh its a great story, congratulations to my friends at the New York Times but thats the only narrative that really makes any sense. But question whether people in the public who arent already completely exasperated with the president s relationship with the truth are going to be moved by any of this. As a legal matter its less completely clear to me the implications of this go make donald trump and the people around him life worse materially worse than they were before all of these allegations. Theres, you know, a conspiracy case, theres questions about Michael Cohens handling of client funds and Bank Statements and things like that. All of this is a big, big mess, but im not sure it makes the legal mess that much messier. Eugene, lets just think about, for those of us trying to piece this story together, youve got the president saying what hes saying, visavis or at least in opposition to what
michael avenotti and Stormy Daniels are saying about these statements, then you have giuliani contradicting the president , the president contradicting him. But then Michael Cohen, i dont know why hes talking either. Talked to donny deutsch. Donny deutsch went on morning joe to describe it. Lets listen to that conversation. That was this morning. I spoke with Michael Cohen yesterday and he doesnt know what Rudy Giuliani is talking about. He said there are two people that know what happened, myself and the president. Youll be hearing My Side Of The Story. He was obviously very frustrated what came out yesterday. Okay, My Side Of The Story, thats what i want to get clear. Is the president trying to keep Michael Cohen from telling My Side Of The Story . Whos on whose side right now . This is just a wild guess. I would guess that Michael Cohen probably knows things that donald trump doesnt want made public, right . Doesnt want him to tell. Now, i dont know what those things are. I dont know if they have to do
with Stormy Daniels or other things, whatever. There could be things about the Stormy Daniels affair that cohen knows and trump knows and trump doesnt want to get out. You know, but and i think Michael Cohen, through donny deutsch, was kind of reminding everybody, im over here, i have a story to tell too. Meanwhile, you have the extraordinary situation as ruth alluded to, the president essentially devising his own legal communication strategy. At times not even bothering to let his lawyers know what this is. Certainly not cueing in his new lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, as to exactly what the script is supposed to be. This is you know, this is a he has a hes representing himself. So he has a fool for a client. This is ridiculous and he will only get himself in more trouble, not less trouble, by
continuing this way, i think. Jennifer rogers, as a federal prosecutor, what do you make of the idea that maybe Michael Cohen was, you know, facing the pressure from federal prosecutors and maybe deciding he was going to cooperate, and that somehow this was a signal. The idea that donald trump paid Michael Cohen back was meant to say Michael Cohen didnt do something of his own accord that was illegal so dont flip on us. Does that make sense . Its hard to say. The decision to cooperate is personal to each person, it depends on your personal situation, your family situation, the time youre facing. Whether you can do that time. The relationship against the person youd expect to cooperate against. Its a personal factor. I have no idea Whats Going On in his head. For him being willing to say that guy doesnt know what hes saying here shows frustration. The fact hes speaking out shows hes not happy with staying quiet. And letting the chips fall where they may. Whether he flips will depend on
a lot of things. Well find out when we see the charges against him. That will be the big moment for him. The judge in california, in a separate case, declined to act there because he said he expected at some point in the near future, Michael Cohen will be indicted. How do you see it playing . I dont think giuliani helped his client. When he came on board, he was going to have this case wrapped up in two weeks. Right . That was the promise. Correct, he said that. The whole mueller thing was going to go away in two weeks. Not only has that not happened, hes taken the president in deeper. He said off the wall things, like comparing the fbi to Nazi Stormtroopers in the mueller case. This is shocking coming from the mayor of New York Post 9 11, a federal prosecutor, all of these things, to hear him, an ally of law enforcement, calling the fbi stormtroopers . I dont think that plays well. And the things hes done has given more ammunition to the
side against donald trump. We saw Citizens For Responsibility And Ethics In Washington file their own complaint to the doj. And the office of Government Ethics demanding an investigation based on everything that he said, just in a fox news interview in one fox news interview. So far, he has not been helping the president s case. Unless theres some strange strategy we dont understand. To pick up on indiras point, mayor giuliani said something that has not gotten a lot of notice to fox, he suggested that Robert Mueller did not have the authority to subpoena the president. And that is really a remarkable assertion if they decide to go down that road, because after the criminal case against president nixon, the subpoena was for tapes not for his testimony, certainly back in the day when ken starr subpoenaed bill clinton, there was not a
question about whether u. S. Versus nixon and whether the case in which the Supreme Court, the Paula Jones Case said the president could be civilly sued, there was not a real question about the ability of the prosecutor to subpoena a president. Right. The ability to indict the president is something different. So if either i dont know if giuliani was with the program on that, whether that signals, you know, the potential for long, drawnout litigation with the Special Counsel on that subject or whether this was just another one of his off the cuff, unauthorized remarks, but its pretty interesting. You bring up a good point there. Weve seen subpoenas to jefferson for documents, to nixon for tapes, to clinton for testimony. Back in 1974 when nixon was asked to present himself i think u. S. District court for washington that went to the Supreme Court and was resolved within three months. Nixon resigned so it made the point moot. But the fact is while we never tested the idea of a subpoena of a sitting president makes it to the Supreme Court and results in testimony, not a lot of lawyers i talked to said it cant happen. We seem to have a bit of history that suggests it can. Watergate special prosecutor leon jaworski, replaced archibald cox, he had the tapes. So he didnt push The Point Of Subpoenaing president nixon. He had enough evidence with the tapes. And they knew it months before nixon resigned. Jimmy carter testified twice in two cases when he was president. So its likely if this went to the Supreme Court that the Supreme Court would say, yes, the president is not above the law, he must respond to a subpoena. The question is what would happen then . I think the best predictions are that the president of the United States would take the fifth. Eugene, he can take the fifth, agree to a sitdown where his lawyers are going to be present. I think most people agree donald trump going in front of a grand jury without his lawyers near him is going to be disastrous for donald trump. No ill keep saying it. Everybody in this country deserves a lawyer, donald trump may not believe that, but he deserves a lawyer. If i were one of his lawyers, if he had to sit down with an interview with mueller, i would tell him to take the fifth because hes just a loose cannon. Is a very sort of minimalist way of saying what donald trump is. Just off the cuff. And he can only dig himself a deeper and deeper hole, including all sorts of stuff that mueller doesnt know about. It would be, i think, a disaster. Even worse than the political disaster of a sitting president sitting down for an interview and taking the fifth to everything. Its worth noting, mueller
knows a lot so the president talking off the cuff and contradicting what mueller already knows to be true could get the president in a lot of hot water. Everybody please stay with us. P mfsht caught up in the tangled web. But it was still all about donald trump and his impeach. Next. How john kelly went from reportedly calling the president an idiot to this. Everything is going phenomenally well. Let someone else do the heavy lifting. Tripadvisor compares prices from over 200 booking sites to find the right hotel for you at the lowest price. So you barely have to lift a finger. Or a wing. Tripadvisor. Which is the only egg good eonly egglands best. With more farmfresh taste, more vitamins, and 25 less saturated fat . Only egglands best. Better taste, better nutrition, better eggs. Im your phone,istle text alert. Stuck down here between your seat and your console, playing a little hidenseek. Cold. Warmer. Warmer. Ah boiling. Jackpot. And if youve got cutrate car insurance, you could be picking up these charges yourself. So get allstate, where agents help keep you protected from mayhem. Like me. Mayhem is everywhere. Are you in good hands . President trumps tangled web includes every twist and turn in the russian collusion probe this week. Rudy giuliani is supposed to help decide whether the president will sit down for an interview with Robert Mueller and his investigators while the president and members of his inner circle smear the department of justice and smear the mueller team. And today in Federal Court a judge overseeing the case against Paul Manafort in the Eastern District of virginia seemed to boost trumps case. Manaforts attorneys are trying to get the charges of bank fraud dismissed arguing mueller overstepped the bounds of the russia investigation. Judge ellis, appointed by president reagan, said he thinks the Special Counsel wants to Squeeze Manafort for information that quote would reflect on mr. Trump or lead to his impeachment. Ellis then opined that the person people do not want a Special Counsel with unfettered power. By the time President Trump landed in dallas to speak at the nra convention, he read the news and used it on stage. Just when im walking on the stage, a highly respected judge in virginia made statements, it says, Wall Street Journal, it says, judge questions muellers authority to prosecute manafort. Judge t. S. Ellis, who is really something very special, i hear, from many standpoints, hes a respected person, suggested the charges before the u. S. District court for the Eastern District of virginia were just part of the mueller teams designs to pressure mr. Manafort into giving up information on President Donald Trump or others in the campaign. Ive been saying that for a long time. Its a witch hunt. Weve got room at the table for one more. Pull up a chair ken dilanian. Intelligence and National Security reporter for nbc news. Because he was at that Court Hearing today. Ken, this is interesting. I think what our viewers are
going to be curious about, was this a judge who was opining or was he really talking about how he might rule in this . Thats the big question. A lot of legal observers i talked to think its more opining. Judge ellis was trying to make a point today and it was really interesting. Representing Robert Mueller was michael dreeben, one of the most accomplished appellate lawyers in the country, appeared more than 100 times before the u. S. Supreme court. He barely got a word out before judge ellis started firing sharp questions, raising questions about how these bank fraud and tax fraud charges against Paul Manafort could possibly relate to russia collusion. Everything you said there, unfettered power, raising questions about the 10 million budget. This is a judge with qualms of a Special Counsel with an unlimited budget rooting around and going after the president. That said, it doesnt mean hes going to grant Paul Manaforts motion to dismiss the charges,
which is a real long shot legal experts say. Its possible, its conceivable he may say this exceeds your mandate and this is a case properly handled by the u. S. Attorney in virginia in the Eastern District. I want to go to ruth marcus on this. Ruth, donald trump, whether or not the argument that judge ellis put forward that americans dont want a special prosecutor with unfettered powers, donald trump went to work trying to denigrate the mueller team. Listen to what he said at the nra. In all fairness, bob mueller worked for obama for eight years. You look at the statements that were made. If you take a look, as an example, at the Rod Rosenstein letter to me prior to the firing of james comey just read it. The president spoke three times today, that was before the nra. He was doing a lot of talking. But the point is the president
continues with the narrative of mueller as democrat erranddoer. In fact, bob mueller is a republican who worked in the Bush Administration as well. Right. He said witch hunt multiple times in multiple appearances today. I want to say one thing about his comments about judge ellis. What i love about the president s view of the judiciary, im being sarcastic there, is that his view of a judge depends on whether the judge rules for him or against him. If you rule against him youre a socalled judge and a disgraceful judge. And if you rule for him youre the Second Coming of Oliver Wendell holmes. Lewis brandeis. All rolled together. So what is the president going to say about judge ellis if, as ken suggests, he allows the charges to go ahead . It strikes me the worst that can happen in the mueller case is the manafort charges
are transferred to the Eastern District of virginia, which handles those and can help Squeeze Manafort in some way and cause trouble for the president just as the cohen investigation can cause trouble for the president , even though thats being handled by the southern district. On the president s comments about mueller, and i think hes really, really ramped it up over the last several days, theyre just im going to use a favorite trump word, theyre just disgraceful. Mueller is a republican, there are democrats on his staff but theyre all seasoned professional prosecutors and theres no reason or basis to question their legitimacy or bias. I want to make a point, judge ellis was in no way impugning the mueller investigation, he was not saying it was a witch hunt that its not well founded. And i am pretty certain that he did not anticipate how his comments would reverberate around the political world today, how they would be used by
the president of the United States to discredit the investigation. He was making a legal argument to a Legal Community about the Special Counsel and about a particular lawsuit, he was not arguing this was a witch hunt. Jennifer rodgers, as somebody whos spent time in courtrooms what do you make of what judge ellis was saying . It would be hard to think anything you wouldnt say about donald trump wouldnt be reverberated around the world. Was he doing what judges sometimes do, chastising an enthusiastic prosecution and warning them against overstepping their realm . They do sometimes do that, judges. Ive been in courtrooms where the judge has complained about policy of the u. S. Attorneys office, im seeing too many cases like this i dont like the way the office is handle that. Its often to be honest judges who used to be in the office, so theyre picking a bit at policies of their old place of employment. In this case its surprising that the judge wouldnt understand the play this was going to get and how it was going to be used. I think he said it with a
purpose. Enough of a purpose if you were one of those lawyers, usa versus manafort, one of the federal prosecutors work, that scare you . I dont think hes going to dismiss the case. Some of the general comments he made dont go to the issue of whether theres a jurisdictional problem here. The motion is a jurisdictional motion. Having read the papers, i think he will not dismiss it. But i do think he made those comments understanding that there was that they were going to be heard and that they would be used at least for some reason. So judge ellis is he turns 78 in a couple weeks. Hes been on Senior Status for more than 10 years. He basically retired years ago. And one thing that he did not mention is that Rod Rosenstein signed off on this. This is the mueller team didnt just expand the scope of its investigation on its own. The person the Deputy Attorney general gave them permission to do so. So its a little hard to see what the judges legal reasoning would be to say that they had
overstepped their bounds since thats the job of that Deputy Attorney general. I want to say its not just judge ellis and this particular point here. Theres more to the manafort investigation that has come out this week. First of all, we know the ukraine has stopped cooperating with the manafort investigation once the u. S. Offered and decided to sell weapons to ukraine. That is very significant. We also know now the mueller team has questioned a russian billionaire who was on the sanctions list. They dont seem to be particularly interested in him specifically but possible in his ties to manafort. So this is more than judge ellis, lets be honest, i dont think any of us believe that donald trump had heard of judge ellis before these clips were handed to him and he suddenly called him very special and very great. As ruth said its about are you on his side or not on his side. Its not about the legal understanding here. But lets not forget the manafort investigation has a bigger picture. And with this russian billionaire, with the ukrainians suddenly stopping, theres a lot
more that were still waiting to hear some other shoes drop. Indira, thank you so much, ken dilanian, jennifer rodgers, thank you. Coming up, donald trump may have lavished praise on his Chief Of Staff in front of the cameras but new reporting says behind the scenes, trump is relying less and less on john kelly and taking matters into his own hands. Every tv doctor knows nothings more important than a good bedside manner. I dont know how to say this. Its ok doc. Give it to me straight. No you dont understand. I dont know how to say this. Im just a tv doctor. They also know you should get your annual checkup. It could save your life. And now you can page a tv doctor to set up a checkup reminder. Call 1833pagedoc. Cigna. Together, all the way. Well thats thats your job i guess. No one burns heon my watch try alka seltzer. Ultra strength Heartburn Relief chews. With more acidfighting power than tums chewy bites. Mmmmm. Amazing. I have heartburn. Heartburn relief from alkaseltzer. Enjoy the relief. Yoespecially when it comes to important stuff. Like, say. Your car. Well good news, the esurance app lets you keep an eye on repairs when your car is in the shop. Its kinda like being there, without being there. Which is probably better for everyone. Thats insurance for the modern world. Esurance. An allstate company. Click or call. Our friday night look at trumps tangled web continues and perhaps no area is more tangled than trying to follow the Trump Administration employment chart. Look at how rachels wall has grown over the course of the trump presidency, trying to keep track of everyone fired. Look at that wall. When the boss donald trump praises you its not necessarily a good thing. Here he is today. I want to just tell you something, general kelly is doing a fantastic job. There has been such false reporting about our relationship. We have a great relationship. Hes doing a great job as Chief Of Staff. I could not be more happy. So i just want to tell you that. Now in march it was trumps legal team that was doing a great job. He tweeted, the failing New York Times purposefully wrote a false story stating i am unhappy with my legal team on the russia case and am going to add another lawyer to help me out. Wrong. Im very happy with my lawyers. They are doing a great job. Well, we all know how that turned out. John dowd and ty cobb are out, donald trump hired the lawyer that he said he wouldnt hire, emmet flood. And today donald trump said white house Chief Of Staff john kelly is doing a great job praising him after a week in which nbc broke the Bombshell News that kelly referred to trump as, quote, an idiot multiple times. The New York Times have added yesterday that kelly and trump have grown tired and irritated with each other. And politico reported that kelly has been marginalized by the white house staff and the president , according to ten sources. Despite private tensions, john kelly is willing to publicly flatter the man he reportedly thinks is an idiot. Here he is giving john kelly a chance to publicly declare his admiration for the president. The New York Times times has falsely reported, i just wanted to tell you that. General you may have something to say. Its a privilege to work for
a president whos gotten the economy going, were about to have a breakthrough on north korea, the jobs report today, everything is going phenomenally well, attacking the opioid crisis. Its nothing less than brilliant whats been accomplished in 15 months, i believe. What happens now to the man who called the president an idiot . Thats next. Liberty did what . Yeah, Liberty Mutual 24hour Roadside Assistance helped him to fix his flat so he could get home safely. My dad says our insurance doesnt have that. Dont worry i know what a lug wrench is, dad. Is this a lug wrench . Maybe . You can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. Liberty stands with you™. Liberty mutual insurance. Its nothing less than brilliant whats been accomplished in 15 months, i believe. We are back with our panel, ruth marcus, eugene robinson, and Jonathan Alter. Ruth, help me unpack the nothing less than brilliant. There is no White House Communications director. The president , we dont see his Chief Of Staff with him all that often. We saw him today. The president very clearly didnt tell the White House Press secretary about giulianis plans. Emmet flood, the lawyer that the president has now hired who represented bill clinton in his impeachment didnt know that giuliani was going on tv, but its brilliant. Nothing less than brilliant. Nothing less than brilliant. Is there something more than brilliant . Im going for a really highbrow literary reference here, and im going to say this is the cat in the hat presidency. You may recall the cat in the hat comes back. The cat takes a bath in the tub, and he leaves a pink ring. And as they try to clean it up, it just spreads and spreads and stains everything. President trumps messes im glad you liked it. President trumps messes end up staining everything, and they spread, and everybody who associates with him, i cant think of a single exception except for maybe the defense secretary, james mattis. Everybody who is associated with donald trump ends up having his or her reputation diminished as a result and, hence general kelly exhibit a today. Eugene, neil cavuto, on fox, i think said, that stink, mr. President , is your swamp. Even though in conservative circles are starting to think this is too crazy to continue. Well, its too crazy to continue. Look, cavuto, you know, was referring to all the swampishness, the very deep and getting deeper water thats around this administration. You look at the pruitt situation at epa. Its like a new scandal every
day, the latest being the reports that scott pruitt came into the office and gathered the staff and said here are some places around the world id really like to see, so find me reasons to go there. So thats how he works out his travel on the public dime. Thats okay in trump world apparently if, when you appear with the president , you do what john kelly just did, which is flatter him with praise that would, you know, embarrass kim jongun. I mean, you know, dear leaderstyle praise, and thats the sort of price of staying in the administration and having power in the administration. Yeah. And beyond that, you can do what you want. Weve seen it in Cabinet Meetings before. But, in fact, to the scott pruitt point, this is remarkable what eugene was talking about. Evidence that scott pruitt had a list of exotic destinations he wanted to travel to and informed staff he wanted them to find
reasons for him to go to those places. But scott pruitt and Mick Mulvaney and others in the government are doing exactly what donald trump wants them to do. They are dismantling regulations. The stock market, though weak recently, has been strong. The jobs numbers are still pretty good, and this north korea meeting, if it happens, is going to be an accomplishment. The fact is the president still seems to think hes doing well. In fact, he had a bluster and a confidence about him today that i hadnt seen in a while. Well, unemployment is down to levels we havent seen since 2000. So he can say to his people, to his base, i am delivering for you in certain ways. Notwithstanding those are continuations of policies weve seen for years. Right. But, you know, i think that ruth was too kind to him with the cat in the hat reference. I mean donald trump makes the cat in the hat look like Abraham Lincoln with his tophat, you know. This is a toxic waste dump, and i think that comey, who was wrong in a lot of areas, had it right that its, you know, a forest fire. So the best that we can hope for is to start planning for what we do after, whether its three years or, you know, seven years or whatever. But we need to start figuring out how we restore our democracy after the damage thats being done. And literally on a daily basis. And the first thing are these midterm elections. So im struck by how theres really not enough focus yet on how we remedy this at the polling place. Thank you, Jonathan Alter, ruth marcus, and eugene robinson. Thanks to the three of you. Tonights last word is next. P. [ drum roll ]. Emily lapier from ames, iowa. This is emilys third nomination and first win. Um. So, just. Wow um, first of all, to my fellow nominees, it is an honor sharing the road with you. And of course, to the progressive snapshot app for giving good drivers the discounts no, i have to say it for giving good drivers the discounts they deserve. Safe driving that skills like teamwork, attention to detail, and Customer Service are critical to business success. Like the ones we teach here, every day. vo have to happen . Idnt and Customer Service are critical to business success. I didnt see it. vo what if we could go back . What if our car. Could stop itself . In iihs frontend crash prevention testing, nobody beats the subaru impreza. Not toyota. Not honda. Not ford. The subaru impreza. More than a car, its a subaru