should do something. there's no evidence that they did very much except an open letter. that to me is different from colluding and a conspiracy. the daily caller said these guys were plotting like it was some cabal. i think they were frustrated that the right is a lot better at coordinating talking points, frankly. >> joan walsh, did this seem conspiratorial or coordinated to you? >> no, it really didn't. now, look, first of all, i want to make clear because matt doesn't seem to know who i am, i was not on the journalist. i was never asked to be on the journalist. and i criticized both chris hayes and spencer ackerman for their language a few days ago when these e-mails came out. but the point that i made there is there was a vibrant debate, even in journalist. people in journalist were saying no, don't call them racist. you know, do something else. and people in journalist were also going on to write critical stories about reverend wright. i wrote wrote many myself. because i did think that he was a problem. so this idea that they were -- i mean, it's sort of hilarious.