expressionless, it was blank, he was callus almost. >> did you get a chance to see the wounded? they were very close, i take it. >> it was right there. between the entrance to that walgreens and the safeway isn't more than 50 feet or so. between there was the whole thing set up and then he started near the safeway. but he ended up where they caught him was close tore the walgreens. and that's where we pinned him down, right there. >> did you see the congresswoman, gabrielle giffords? >> from a distance. her head was covered. like they said, they were trying to stop the bleeding, i'm not sure. but there was a lot of people bleeding and a lot of people crying. i saw too much bleeding. i saw people i know were dead. >> joe -- >> it was horrible. >> joe, if you can, i want you to stay with us because we have more questions for you, if you