if we don't raise the debt ceiling the government cannot issue new debt. we take in 60 cents for every dollar we spend. we spend 40% more than we take in. you can choose to not pay the interest on your current debt, which amounts to effectively a defau default. how would the markets react to that. >> that's bad. >> we think so. >> okay. >> currently the u.s. used as a safehaven. would markets continue to think of us that way? we don't know. the second choice is more scary to me, that is we have to cut spend big 40% and that comes from social security, medicare. >> that's a big cut. >> it's a huge number. >> where does your arrow go if you do that. >> to depression. i want to cut government spending but i don't want to do it overnight. if you have to cut spending by 40% you're looking at a 10% contraction in the economy, looking at depression. that's a pretty clear choice. raise the debt ceiling. >> that's not what we're hearing from a whole lot of other