doing. i actually do think, as kathleen said, i think a lot of that went on. david green, the host of morning edition on npr, he had a conversation at one point during the election year with four voters in florida, two trump supporters, two clinton supporters. and they argued furiously and strenuously with each other. they really were a little microcosm of the campaign year. at end of the conversation, heard by millions of listeners, they got up from the studio table and hugged each other. that's the power of listening to conversations and we need to do a lot more of that and do it a lot better. >> i agree with mike about the listening part. there's too many organizations, maybe not the three represented here but too many others that are quoting people's facebook feeds or twitter feeds, are e-mailing an interview and that's just lazy. >> we have to distinguish between real reporting and